Summer 2007 Bionicle set names!

[Lord Admiral Helden Ravensdorn]

And I, likewise, feel where YOU'RE coming from - This new movie is indeed good, and would be awesome if the Barraki sets were better. Indeed, I'm getting far more of a 2001 feel from the SETTING at least then I did from Voya-Nui.

Perhaps the thing I like about Mata-Nui and Metru-Nui the MOST is, in fact, the architecture. The settings. The structures. The technologies. Both were utterly unique. But on Voya-Nui, there was not "set" look. The games portrayed it kind of like another Mata-Nui. The commercials had it as some kind of super-warehouse. I think BIONICLE Heroes probably has the best "look" with the wooden statues and all, but its not "canon".

And anyway, as I have said elsewhere, I am developing my own BIONICLE 'Verse. Once I get it all figured out, i'll publish it to EB :) Its just dissapointing to see where the official line is going/has gone.

[Zaktan of the Shadows]

Aren't we discussing the sets and not the story? Besides all this fighting is kind of making me sick...

-ZotS

[JINZONINGEN73]

Aren't we discussing the sets and not the story? Besides all this fighting is kind of making me sick...

I get sick, but then it gets refreshing when the argument reveals we're not all so different.

We did get a bit off-topic though. It's hard not to however, as the set designs bleed over onto story and vice versa.

[Lord Admiral Helden Ravensdorn]

Rawr. What Jinzo said.

And on that score, I would like to compliment you, Jinzo - While we have differing opinions on things, and my views are storyline based whereas your views are set based, it is VERY refreshing to have an out and out clean and revealing debate with you :) Such a thing is pretty much unheard of on BZP, after all.

[Lord Admiral Helden Ravensdorn]

Oh, and to get back on topic about the sets, would it really kill LEGO to have done the Barraki like this:?

http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/Crossfir...ne/100_9226.jpg (image too big)

Or a Piraka like this?

http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/SuperMar...cs/Zaktan/c.jpg (again too big)

[JINZONINGEN73]

Rawr. What Jinzo said.

And on that score, I would like to compliment you, Jinzo - While we have differing opinions on things, and my views are storyline based whereas your views are set based, it is VERY refreshing to have an out and out clean and revealing debate with you :) Such a thing is pretty much unheard of on BZP, after all.

It's all about respect. Starting at the individuals engaged in debate, all the way up to the people running the site to allow it to take place. :-)

I think it's great honestly. Lego execs DO peruse these sites and learn who their buyers are from time to time.

So many things on my checklist of "What I wish Lego would do / make" list were fulfilled with one sweep in 2006. I'd love to think it's the result of fans doing what we're doing.

As for the mocs there, it's been a long time since I resigned the hope of sets being complete fresh from the box.

It seems obvious that there are major flaws and heavy minimalization intentionally executed strictly to require the consumer to buy more sets and moc them "right".

But in a way, I can't blame them for doing things that way, from the obvious financial standpoint as well as the possibility of cultivating creativity (as well as more interest) in making a Lego mocer out of someone.

[Lord Admiral Helden Ravensdorn]

True, but the problem for me is that I am simply *terrible* with BIONICLE MoCs. Give me a few bins of System peices and prefferably a castle, pirate or adventurers setting and I will build something impressive. Give me a bin of BIONICLE peices and i'll build something that barely resembles nothing. I'd love to build myself a Kalmah like that, but I simply dont know how and probably lack the peices to do so. This is why pretty much all my sets have remained stock - except for some neck upgrades on the Olda, and various other things like rebuilding the Rahaga for neck articulation.

Theres nothing I would love more then to attend one of GregF's Focus Groups in order to put a mature and knowlagable opinion in the mix. What do 6-year-olds know of good set design? While I may not be able to build BIONICLE myself, i've been around the LEGO internet community for neigh-on 5 years now - Personal views aside, I know what makes a good set and what doesnt, and HOW a set could be a re-built to be good. Personally, I'd like larger sets like these MOCs - perfect for me, and perfect for you because they'd have a TON of bitz.

- Helden

[Darkness Falls]

Oh, and to get back on topic about the sets, would it really kill LEGO to have done the Barraki like this:?

http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/Crossfir...ne/100_9226.jpg (image too big)

Or a Piraka like this?

http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/SuperMar...cs/Zaktan/c.jpg (again too big)

Yes. Apparently, they've never heard of some of those techniques.

The point of canister sets is to provide pieces for kids and to make it look good in the process. They use a minimum amount of pieces to portray a powerful being. The Titans are specifically made to look hella awesome. With Titans, you have the ability to make a being that is bigger and unique, while the Canisters will usually bring one new body build to the table and that's it.

See, when someone says, "man, the Piraka calves are cool. I wish I could have them in red, though..." They can buy Hakann. They're really a part source more than anything. Now, with the Barraki, they had to switch things around. They made six different sets, and yet each of them possessed a past element of some sort. Behold the power of getting new sets with new parts, but also obtaining old designs and pieces. The Barraki are jems for part hounds, but in structure, some of them lack and/or use repetitice themes.

And on that score, I would like to compliment you, Jinzo - While we have differing opinions on things, and my views are storyline based whereas your views are set based, it is VERY refreshing to have an out and out clean and revealing debate with you :) Such a thing is pretty much unheard of on BZP, after all.

Too true... too true. Bones takes it upon himself to smash the competition, so not a lot of people are keen to debate.

[Lord Admiral Helden Ravensdorn]

Heh - So you knew who I was reffering to, then :P

I think my biggest problem with Bones is that first he will ignore or evade any points you make, and then pick out any flaws, smash them, and then pretty much say "Well, you were wrong on these scores, so you're just wrong, period." And his all time favorite, "Anything that keeps BIONICLE sales up is good. PERIOD."

*sigh*....

[Zaktan of the Shadows]

LOL. You're right about Bones, as he did that to me once...

-ZotS

[GravyTrain]

I agree with a lot o' th' things said here. The non-violence is what made Bionicle unique, BUT I'd quite enjoy epic swordfights like, say, running up a Skyscraper in Metru-Nui, or maybe two winged characters clashing swords in the sky, dipping and diving, creating elemental flashes etc., that'd be good. Otherwise I'd rather have elemental fighting, as great big plumes of fire are more impressive than a fencing match.

Also, the CGI ads are what started me and the combo models egged me on. I remember thinking "Wow, the black one looks cool" and then I looked at the Kaita (something that has been lacking in recent lines) and thought "OMG must get Tahu and Pohatu" and I was saving up my pocket money to get them. The Bohrok pretty much cemented me in for the Rahkshi and most of Metru-Nui.

But then, quite some years later, the "Hordika" wave started chipping at that cement. One piece head/body cover, limbs and some pieces to hold it together does NOT make a formidable villain.

On a side note, it's really nice seeing clever, constructed arguments on here. Even if you disagree, remember that "the people not like us are still people, like us".

[JINZONINGEN73]

And his all time favorite, "Anything that keeps BIONICLE sales up is good. PERIOD."

*sigh*....

I wasn't going to jump into this, for (I think) it's been over a year since I logged in there (still waiting for an apology, you-know-who)...

but that above quote, if accurate, makes me bang my head into the wall until bloody.

It's easy to use non-quality decisions to make sales rise, even going a few years in a row.

But depending on HOW you do it, the pattern can crash in the opposite direction on a dime, whiplash-style.

And non-quality can come in the forms of bad storytelling, bad character recognition, bad set design, bad part selections/amounts. Even if other aspects of "the sale" squeak past the bad points into the profit zone, INEVITABLY those weaker points drag future sales down.

ANYTHING that makes a current customer feel stupid somehow in the future is bad.

So no, "anything" that does it is not good. It has to be carefully selected, with a whole lot of skill and giving a damn involved.

What was I typing about?

Oh yeah.

My head. Wall.

[Lord Admiral Helden Ravensdorn]

For the record: Yes, Bones HAS said that in multiple ways more then multiple times.

[Zaktan of the Shadows]

Okay with these comments, I have a final question;

Who actually liked the Piraka, Toa inika and Barraki?

-ZotS

[Lord Admiral Helden Ravensdorn]

Not me. While I will be buying Ehlek, Takadox, Carapar and POSSIBLY Kalmah, I think their sets could be better, and I dont like how their official personalities arent too far differentiated from the Piraka.

The Piraka are, IMHO, a disgrace - bland personalities, bulky sets with useless grinning heads. Blegh.

While the Inika have a solid set design, they dont look like Toa - Indeed, I plan on buying Nuparu for use as a daemonic elemental. In particular, the gimmicky light-up laser crap and the simply *horrible* bright green heads with mutant masks on top made them look like comic book villians rather then great heroes.

[Darkness Falls]

I wasn't going to jump into this, for (I think) it's been over a year since I logged in there (still waiting for an apology, you-know-who)...

but that above quote, if accurate, makes me bang my head into the wall until bloody.

It's easy to use non-quality decisions to make sales rise, even going a few years in a row.

But depending on HOW you do it, the pattern can crash in the opposite direction on a dime, whiplash-style.

And non-quality can come in the forms of bad storytelling, bad character recognition, bad set design, bad part selections/amounts. Even if other aspects of "the sale" squeak past the bad points into the profit zone, INEVITABLY those weaker points drag future sales down.

ANYTHING that makes a current customer feel stupid somehow in the future is bad.

So no, "anything" that does it is not good. It has to be carefully selected, with a whole lot of skill and giving a damn involved.

What was I typing about?

Oh yeah.

My head. Wall.

Wait, is it my fault you don't come on here? SORRY!

I'm pretty sure it isn't, but just in case.

However, I believe he means "anything" as in Greg's storylines, or the Piraka's grinning faces, or the non-violence policy being thrown out the window. Bones doesn't seem to argue against those points.

[GravyTrain]

I didn't like the Piraka or the Inika (only considering buying Matoro and possibly Jaller for Ultimate Tahu parts).

I feel alienated by the storyline. More islands? Secret Orders(this is Bionicle not Da Vinci Code!)? MORE Toa?

2001 was better because it bothered to establish a mythos. I'm sure any Bionicle fan worth their salt knows the Mata-Nui story off by heart. It was simple, but now you have all these cataclysms and Orders and conquerors! It's become too complicated for me, TBH.

[Lord Admiral Helden Ravensdorn]

Yeah... I think I snapped when Greg decided that there would be a whole species of Makuta's. Oh, and 3,000 Toa.

[Kahgarak]

Yeah... I think I snapped when Greg decided that there would be a whole species of Makuta's. Oh, and 3,000 Toa.

Luckily,there are only 50 left in the storyline currently...

I think that the canister sets should have some more Technic.The Toa Olda had it,but now...Meh.We need something along the lines of Jinzo's ''Riot'' units and that Kalmah revamp.

[GravyTrain]

Just out of curiosity, how many axles do you get in one of the new canister sets?

[Lord Admiral Helden Ravensdorn]

*looks at the barraki*

None, I think...? Mebbe a few small ones to tie the torso together, but thats all...

[GravyTrain]

Case. Closed.

The focus of Bionicle has become so undeniably "action figure" that shortcuts (partswise) are being taken. No wonder there's hardly any decent Kaita anymore. Those used to be a BIG factor when buying figures for me (it's the reason I bought Tahu and Pohatu after Onua, and is probably the cause of my Bionicle interest).

[Darkness Falls]

Case. Closed.

The focus of Bionicle has become so undeniably "action figure" that shortcuts (partswise) are being taken. No wonder there's hardly any decent Kaita anymore. Those used to be a BIG factor when buying figures for me (it's the reason I bought Tahu and Pohatu after Onua, and is probably the cause of my Bionicle interest).

Actually, have you seen the recent two-set-combiner? (Pit War Turtle or something) It's actually very impressive. I agree, The 2006 sets were clrealy action figures, right down to the light-up swords. This year at least we have SOME MORE UNIQUE building ideas.

[Zaktan of the Shadows]

I didn't mind the Inika and Piraka, but I hated the combinders. The only good one was Kardas.

-ZotS

[JINZONINGEN73]

I didn't mind the Inika and Piraka, but I hated the combinders. The only good one was Kardas.

-ZotS

Yah, before Kardas, I can't name one combiner that I didn't find embarrassing.

I TRIED to like the 2 kaitas that started it all, but there was no hope.

I mean, I love the Transformers gestalt combiners thing, but the final models Lego made were kinda' ugly year after year.

But kardas. Wow.

Greg decided that there would be a whole species of Makuta's. Oh, and 3,000 Toa.

Well, again... that probably isn't his doing.

It'd be hard to sell the same heroes every year, as well as sell them without having an enemy to fight.

He just gets told who to write about and goes from there.

I almost don't mind that. Better to have new heroes often than doing something like watching Kenner toys celebrate themselves for coming out with the 200th different Batman figure redesign.