LOTR & The Hobbit 2013 Set Discussion

[DarthPotato]

Has it been confirmed anywhere that Smaug's final attack on Lake Town is in the second movie? I don't remember seeing any confirmation of it and I could be wrong, but I don't really see it being in the second movie. I know there was a quote from Peter Jackson saying the final battle would involve Smaug, but didn't he also say the dwarves would have some confrontation with him in the movies? Maybe that's the final battle of Desolation of Smaug and the attack on Lake Town takes place in the beginning of There and Back Again? Because Desolation of Smaug already seems kind of crowded with Beorn's house, Mirkwood, Dol Goldur, the dwarves arriving at Lake Town, and Bilbo in Smaug's Lair. I think There and Back Again might need more content for it to be as full as the other two movies.

The point of all of this is that I think Smaug's attack on Lake Town might be in the third film and, if this rumor list is actually true, we'll see a set with him attacking it then. And if Beorn really is absent from this wave maybe we'll see him in the third wave in a Battle of Five Armies set. About the list itself, I thought it was mentioned that we would see five sets from one of the designers, but I think she seemed unsure about that number anyway. The list does seem odd with two Dol Goldur sets though...

[Fives]

Has it been confirmed anywhere that Smaug's final attack on Lake Town is in the second movie? I don't remember seeing any confirmation of it and I could be wrong, but I don't really see it being in the second movie. I know there was a quote from Peter Jackson saying the final battle would involve Smaug, but didn't he also say the dwarves would have some confrontation with him in the movies? Maybe that's the final battle of Desolation of Smaug and the attack on Lake Town takes place in the beginning of There and Back Again? Because Desolation of Smaug already seems kind of crowded with Beorn's house, Mirkwood, Dol Goldur, the dwarves arriving at Lake Town, and Bilbo in Smaug's Lair. I think There and Back Again might need more content for it to be as full as the other two movies.

The point of all of this is that I think Smaug's attack on Lake Town might be in the third film and, if this rumor list is actually true, we'll see a set with him attacking it then. And if Beorn really is absent from this wave maybe we'll see him in the third wave in a Battle of Five Armies set. About the list itself, I thought it was mentioned that we would see five sets from one of the designers, but I think she seemed unsure about that number anyway. The list does seem odd with two Dol Goldur sets though...

PJ was quoted saying that the final battle in DOS would have a lot going on, including artillery, fire and "one pissed of dragon". Phillipa Boyens said its gonna be the biggest action sequence PJ has ever attempted, which is saying a lot.

But the final battle could focus more on Dol Guldur. I just don't know how they can have a big battle with Smaug and not have him die. I'm fine with PJ adding to and expanding Smaug's attack, but he can't have more than one attack. That stretches things too far, and I think PJ knows the limit he can push his changes to.

All the Dol Guldur stuff was written by Tolkien. Those changes make sense. Tauriel, while not a Tolkien original, fits within the story nicely, and is a believable character within the story. Adding an entirely new attack from Smaug, that has no reason to be there except add a massively unneeded action sequence, is not in the spirit of Tolkien. Smaug will die. Laketown was known as the Desolation of Smaug after his death. That's the name of the film. He's gonna die at the end.

Sorry about the rant.

[Eurolock]

I thought the 'desolation of smaug' referred to the barren desolate area in front of Erebor including the ruins of Dale...could be wrong though.

*SPOILERS* As for Smaug's demise.....jury is still out as to when this will occur (DOS or TABA). If the Dol Guldor 'battle' is resolved in DOS then I think Smaug's attack on Laketown could be saved until TABA. The argument I have heard is that it may be difficult to avoid DOS feeling like the end of the story if Smaug dies.

Either way I still think we will get Lego Smaug this year.

[SandMirror38]

^ I have heard that the film ends with Raoc tells thorin & co about smaugs death and that the last part is the armies coming over the hill....

[Eurolock]

Front page on theonering.net (right now) is an article about new DOS information revealed by a German 'cinema' magazine. However, even this, supposedly spoiler heavy, item can only offer....

'Whether Smaug’s fall will end part 2 however is as yet unknown.'

I guess we willl have to wait and see....

[Deathleech]

That list doesn't seem very likely to me. A Mirkwood Elf Army set? That seems like it would be better suited for a third wave to coincide with the Battle of the Five Armies in the final film. And two Dol Guldur sets but no Smaug or anything, and the most expensive set is only 70 bucks? Both seem unlikely. There are just too many things that make this list look made up, very little about it makes sense.

[Fives]

That list doesn't seem very likely to me. A Mirkwood Elf Army set? That seems like it would be better suited for a third wave to coincide with the Battle of the Five Armies in the final film. And two Dol Guldur sets but no Smaug or anything, and the most expensive set is only 70 bucks? Both seem unlikely. There are just too many things that make this list look made up, very little about it makes sense.

I'm starting to agree with you. The list does seem a little strange. LEGO seems to have a good sense of what scenes are necessary when making licensed waves. The POTC line is a perfect example of a theme that did one wave for one movie and made sets for most of the major sequences from the film. And unlike POTC or any other movie-only properties, there are the books. LOTR and The Hobbit have original written material that, while not under the actual license held by TLG, can give the designing team a strong sense of what scenes could translate best into sets. And thats without the extensive additions PJ has made.

AUJ, I expect, will have the least amount of severe plot deviations of the trilogy. Since the designers knew when the film would end, they could decide what scenes needed to be represented in the wave. The chapters from the books have a wider recognizability from fans. Having sets based on the classic scenes from the book makes a lot more sense than focusing on the additions that PJ has made. While they are part of the licensed material, LEGO can still decide what sets are most important.

Also, if LEGO doesn't get a Smaug set/fig out before the Xmas holiday, they'll have missed a HUGE cash cow. Bag End was the most popular toy during Xmas 2012. Its so iconic, everyone wanted it; kids who were just getting into Tolkien, teens who've been fans since they were kids, and adults who read the books back in their teens. They all wanted that exquisite model of the most beloved, iconic house in fantasy literature. Smaug has the exact same level of iconic value! Fans of all ages will be anticipating LEGO's representation of the titular dragon, and to not include him in the wave of sets based on the film with the characters name in the title would be ridiculous. It'd just be a bad business move.

I think its safe to say this list is fake, or at least from not the most reliable of sources. Some of the list could be true, but the two Dol Guldur sets and the Elf battle pack are now seeming a bit much/out of place.

EDIT: Also, from the MTV video from SDCC that got up close with the Laketown set, the guy asked about whether or not we'll see Smaug. The woman hesitated (obviously), but the way she said "you'll just have to wait and see" kinda seemed like a roundabout way of saying "yes". She couldn't explicitly say yes or no, but the tone and slight excitement in he voice leans towards the idea that we will see Smaug in a set this fall.

Edited August 8, 2013 by Fives

[matticus]

Well with any rumor I take it with a grain of salt, but also this is how we get set information most of the time.

With the talk of Smaug, perhaps it is not in the regular Hobbit line, but in the form of a UCS set. We can only speculate at this point til we get official pics.

[deskp]

German magazine confirms white council attack is in DOS, this would support the set list we currently have.

I assume the elf army set is also to support the dol guldur battle? Or maybe it was made as intended for BO5A, But they can still make them casue we already saw them in AUJ.

As for smaug, kids might want him more after the movie is released, a januaryy release of him wouldnt be bad. an it would help them keep him assomewhat of a secret.

The action figure company has said they will make a smaug, but that it might not be for 2013.

Edited August 8, 2013 by deskp

[Pate-keetongu]

All the Dol Guldur stuff was written by Tolkien. Those changes make sense. Tauriel, while not a Tolkien original, fits within the story nicely, and is a believable character within the story. Adding an entirely new attack from Smaug, that has no reason to be there except add a massively unneeded action sequence, is not in the spirit of Tolkien. Smaug will die. Laketown was known as the Desolation of Smaug after his death. That's the name of the film. He's gonna die at the end.

Sorry about the rant.

I have to clear up a few things here. All the stuff Tolkien wrote about the White Council's attack to Dol Guldur were just a few mentions here and there: In the end of The Hobbit, the Appendixes (Book of the years) and Book of Unfinished tales (Quest of Erebor text and the passage about the White Council, which took part around 100 years before The Hobbit). All the books tell about the Dol Guldur passage is that Saruman refused to attack at first but later (when Gandalf left the dwarves on the edge of Mirkwood) changed his mind so he could safely search the One Ring from Anduin. The Council did expel The Necromancer from Dol Guldur, but didn't destroy the fortress.

While I have no real information about the end of DOS, I believe Smaug will attack Esgaroth to destroy it and is killed by Bard.

When it comes to set list, I'm not dead set it's real, but it really seems quite a dissapointing - Way too much elves and less dwarves, as in the DOS trailer. But we have to see the film beofre we can judge the importance of Dol Guldur to consumers and market.

[ZCerberus]

This sounds like a lot of non LEGO talk to me. I guess some of you are tying what happens in DOS to the sets, but could the rest of you do a bit more of that too.

[d-delay]

Personally, the thing that makes me think this list is true is that it doesn't sound like a wishlist. The first wave was all about dwarves, we don't need to see more than main man Thorin or Thrain this wave, and it looks like we'll get both. I tend to find the argument that the death of Smaug in DOS could potentially lead to an anticlimactic TABA to be believable. Therefore, I am not surprised that we may not get Smaug till next year, when he'll be just as much of a cash cow. It seems instead that this may be more of an elf wave (army? Galadriel? even another Elrond?) which would make sense if Lego is trying to focus on new ground rather than just re-release figs we mostly have. I wouldn't be worried about the supposed lack of focus on Bilbo and the dwarves - I would be celebrating the fact that they are covering as many characters as they can in the few Hobbit waves we will likely get!

I have no doubt there'll be another exclusive which may produce Beorn, or even Thranduil if it is an "elf wave"? I would expect Smaug in December 2014.

[BlueberryWaffles]

I'm betting Smaug goes into the $130 slot.

Though off topic, Smaug is seriously gonna die in this film? How the hell are they gonna have a third? BO5A could take maybe 30-45 min, but the rest is what? New Zealand tourist commercial as Bilbo walks home?

[Leo604]

I'm betting Smaug goes into the $130 slot.

Though off topic, Smaug is seriously gonna die in this film? How the hell are they gonna have a third? BO5A could take maybe 30-45 min, but the rest is what? New Zealand tourist commercial as Bilbo walks home?

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Jackson had the guts to throw in some more chases after the BO5A and story conclusion in Erebor. He'll probably extend the standoff between the Company and Bard's men, BO5A after that when the Elves and Dwarves arrive, and then whatever shenanigans he can make up when Bilbo is going home. He might even throw in a Nazgul encounter as a 'foreshadowing' of Fellowship of the Ring.

Some of his additions might be good for sets, but I'm honestly starting to understand why Christopher Tolkien hates these movies, or at the very least this trilogy.

[Alcarin]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Jackson had the guts to throw in some more chases after the BO5A and story conclusion in Erebor. He'll probably extend the standoff between the Company and Bard's men, BO5A after that when the Elves and Dwarves arrive, and then whatever shenanigans he can make up when Bilbo is going home. He might even throw in a Nazgul encounter as a 'foreshadowing' of Fellowship of the Ring.

Some of his additions might be good for sets, but I'm honestly starting to understand why Christopher Tolkien hates these movies, or at the very least this trilogy.

Yes those extensions are becoming ''lets milk the cow'' type of extensions...

LOTR was great but this is becoming a Peter Jackson make up movie not Tolkiens work adapted into movie....

[Darth Punk]

Jackson is trying desperately to turn the hobbit into a lord of the rings size trilogy. Unfortunately he is distorting the storyline to stretch it over three movies. As cool as he is the book is not called Smaug,. I just hope TLG releases a Smaug set the second wave so we can all move on.

[Blakstone]

I think the set list is probably real but the titles are likely off. Remember when we get the weird set list for LotR Wave 2. It said Eagle Nest but it was the Battle at the Black Gate which included the eagle.

I think there is an exclusive set somewhere though as the MTV interview indicated that there was at least 5 sets. I don't think that an evasive answer on whether Smaug would be included should be read as anything other than she was not going to say.

I am willing to wait on Smaug. The design of the dragon was under wraps for so long LEGO might not have enough time to do it for this wave. Also IMO it would be anticlimactic to include him before the last wave.

I do hope for Beorn's house as a Target exclusive this wave. They can do Beorn in the final wave but this is the only opportunity to do this house. TLG was willing to skip it though when this was only going to be two movies.

[Mutant Orc]

LOTR was great but this is becoming a Peter Jackson make up movie not Tolkiens work adapted into movie....

I have been thinking that for ages- I'm just trying to get myself to enjoy it as something different...

On a positive note though- 3 films= 3 waves of cool lego sets!!!

[Eurolock]

That list doesn't seem very likely to me. A Mirkwood Elf Army set? That seems like it would be better suited for a third wave to coincide with the Battle of the Five Armies in the final film.

This got me thinking....perhaps you've hit the nail on the head with this comment. Perhaps Lego had planned a 'Mirkwood elf army' set for 'film 2' back when The Battle of Five Armies was in fact in film 2...and we get in now because it still 'fits' with DOS (to an extent).

In fact, if you consider the list of sets - it would fit with the idea of Lego having to reposition concepts developed for the 2-movie format to fit with the Trilogy. So, no Beorn because Lego has already covered as far as the barrel escape. Equally, you could speculate that perhaps the Smaug set/concept they had originally planned/developed doesn't fit with DOS and hence is bumped to TABA....

However, i still suspect the list is either incomplete or simply inaccurate. We have a laketown set now - which, to me, makes a 'Fire and Water' type set less likely and increases the chances that the Smaug set will be based at Erebor - and hence more suited to DOS than TABA.

[xowainx]

This got me thinking....perhaps you've hit the nail on the head with this comment. Perhaps Lego had planned a 'Mirkwood elf army' set for 'film 2' back when The Battle of Five Armies was in fact in film 2...and we get in now because it still 'fits' with DOS (to an extent).

In fact, if you consider the list of sets - it would fit with the idea of Lego having to reposition concepts developed for the 2-movie format to fit with the Trilogy. So, no Beorn because Lego has already covered as far as the barrel escape. Equally, you could speculate that perhaps the Smaug set/concept they had originally planned/developed doesn't fit with DOS and hence is bumped to TABA....

We shouldn't forget that we've already had two "trilogy preview" sets which include scenes from the second film already, with Mirkwood Spiders and Barrel Escape.

[Fives]

I've just gone on to Jordan Scott's (he worked on Mirkwood spiders and Orthanc) tumblr page. I asked him whether or not he could confirm what the LEGO representative from the MTV video said about 5 sets. I doubt he'd be allowed to give out any info, but its worth a try. If we could know for sure how many sets to expect, we can determine the legitimacy of the current set list we have.

[deskp]

There surely is no way they won't do a small chap set for this wave, They always do.

[Alcarin]

There surely is no way they won't do a small chap set for this wave, They always do.

Who knows maybe riddles were selling so crap they simply said ''no small set''

[deskp]

Who knows maybe riddles were selling so crap they simply said ''no small set''

The correct response would be, no shit sets..

[Dr.Cogg]

I keep thinking about the sets in first Hobbit waveto compare:

Riddle of the ring $9.99

Mirkwood Spiders $29.99

Barrel escape $39.99

Warg Attack $49.99

an unexpected gathering $ 59.99

Goblin king battle $99.99

The Rumor list:

79011 Dol Guldur Ambush £19.99

79012 Mirkwood Elf Army £29.99

79013 Lake Town Chase £49.99

79014 Dol Guldur Battle £69.99"

To me it looks like were missing one to two sets.

Edited August 8, 2013 by Dr.Cogg