LOTR & The Hobbit 2013 Set Discussion

[Darth Punk]

Speaking as a collector of the Bridge Direct series, that line for sure has been a total nightmare. The first wave was great, and the Goblin King/ Thorin pack is one of my favorite toys to be released recently, it just went downhill after that. They've had the remaining dwarf sculpts completed and showed them at Toyfair in 2013, but still they weren't released with wave 2. Only a single new sculpt, Thranduil, was included in a five pack with four re-released figure from the first wave. That's it for 3.75" scale in the US.

Luckily I have a friend in the UK who picked up the 3.75" Azog and Radagast figures that for whatever reason were only released in 6" scale here. Their excuse for the others not being released was due to the "production changes when the movie was split again" but really, the dwarves were done, and the idea that they released two sculpts in different scales only in Europe shows it's a distribution/production issue, not a design issue. I think some companies have been using that as a scapegoat.

Unless of course they are holding off releasing the dwarves for the third movie. If you only plan to release x amount of merchandise for two movies but then there are three movies that would certainly change production.

Also all markets are different. They are plenty of regional markets that vary in the U.S., let alone on a global scale. It could very well be larger figures don't sell we'll in Europe since people tend to have smaller living spaces. Where in the u.s. people who collect that type of figure tend to buy the larger figures. Who knows.

[Deathleech]

Bridge Direct only released like two figures here in the U.S. for the second movie though, from my understanding. It's not like they split the wave up, they just didn't put out hardly anything for DoS...

[Darth Punk]

Bridge Direct only released like two figures here in the U.S. for the second movie though, from my understanding. It's not like they split the wave up, they just didn't put out hardly anything for DoS...

How can you say they didn't split up the wave? Bachamn said they had dwarves they didn't release for DoS. If they originally were going to release them for the 2nd and final movie but then wait to release it for TABA that would be splitting up the wave.

If you have 6 products and two movies then that is 3 products per movie. But if after the first you now have three movies but only three products left, then you would have to split it up. Thus one movie would obviously have a lot less than the first. See what I am saying?

This is obviously what happened with TLG, except they put together some sets to fill in for those that got shifted/split to the last wave.

Because I doubt that TLG planned on releasing eight sets for one movie.

[just2good]

What part of Florida are you in just2good? I'm in pcb and it's the same here. I got excited when I saw clearance stickers but the were marked down a whopping 99 cents :(

I'm in South Florida- Coral Springs to be exact. But yeah, Florida Walmart clearance is usually just sticking red tags with less than a dollar off. I wanted to pick up DGB on clearance, as I was so surpised to see it at Walmart. Oh well.

[SMC]

Has anyone else noticed that hardly any stores are stocking the second Hobbit wave sets in their area? Of the three Wal-marts and four Targets I have visited recently, only one of each had ANY Hobbit sets and neither had the full range of four. What's the deal? Are stores just not ordering as much stock due to (poor) wave two LotR sales? It's been almost three months since they were first released, shouldn't we be seeing them more in stores by now...?

Same in England not a lot of hobbit sets in stores

[AFOLguy1970]

I have seen some sets at Walmart, but not at large numbers. They did have DGB, MEA, and LC.

Even the Lego Store did not have a lot of sets, and they were moved more towards the back by the Pick a Brick wall mixed with a handful of LOTR wave 2 sets, most of the rest being Black Gate and Pirate Ships.

[Deathleech]

How can you say they didn't split up the wave? Bachamn said they had dwarves they didn't release for DoS. If they originally were going to release them for the 2nd and final movie but then wait to release it for TABA that would be splitting up the wave.

If you have 6 products and two movies then that is 3 products per movie. But if after the first you now have three movies but only three products left, then you would have to split it up. Thus one movie would obviously have a lot less than the first. See what I am saying?

Because he said they had the rest of the dwarves for wave 2, and since the first wave only had 5 of the dwarves that meant at least 8 were going to be released in wave 2 along with Thranduil and Radagast. Instead of splitting them up though, which would of been 5-6 figures for wave 2 and 5-6 for wave 3, they just released two figs for wave 2 in the US. That's hardly splitting them up when there are at least 10 figures and only 2 were released in a wave...

Edited February 27, 2014 by Deathleech

[atreyu2112]

TBD had all of the Dwarves made for the 3-3/4" line only, not the 6" line. And all they released was a 3-3/4" 5-pack which had only 1 new figure in it (Thranduil). The rest were repacks from TABA. In the 6" line, they only released Azog, Radagast & Legolas (again). That was IT. 2 new figures. Now they are looking into getting out the rest of the 3-3/4" figures somehow, maybe in specialty stores like comic shops and online etailers (ala EE, BBTS, etc.)

Don't get your hopes up for any other figures. We hardly got an offering for DOS, and it's already an uphill battle to get the rest of the finished figures... I'll believe TBD when I have product in my hand.

Edited February 28, 2014 by atreyu2112

[Mahtion]

It is true that the movie split had an impact on related merchandise but it still cannot excuse companies like TBD for every blunder. Sadly it seems almost all of the companies have faced setbacks, Games Workshop I have heard has had to cut back on Hobbit offerings due to poor sales. I don't know if it's the selection offered by these companies or the disinterest from fans annoyed by the tonal changes and stylized action that has contributed to this problem.

The fact remains that we have seen this trend with multiple if not all Hobbit merchandise companies. Maybe TBD wants to cut it's loses by not producing so many different figures, which is a shame but it is also their own fault for relying too much on multipacks and rehashes to sell. I do not know the predicament with the film replicas but it seems Orcrist is a popular seller.

As for Lego, again partly the poor sales (if so) can be attributed to the set choices and catering more for wider target groups like Pirate ship rather than selling to the fan base. We know that different offerings and choices would have easily have generated more interest if the focus was mildly on battles.

I live in Tampa Bay Area of Florida and I agree with others that Hobbit sets are mixed in with LOTR wave 2 CoE, Black Gate and Wizard battle more in the middle of the aisle sandwiched between massive room for well stocked Star Wars and other side by old Galaxy Squad sets. I too have only seen DGB at Toysrus. Personally I would have purchased more of LOTR wave 2 but I did not want a Pirate rather Corsair ship. I have picked up all of hobbit wave 2 aside from DGB since I don't have that much room and we still have wave 3.

[Floundie]

I feel like sudden branches into Bridge Direct discussions are much too frequent.. maybe that should have it's own topic?

[SMC]

^ I think it just cos there is not a lot to talk about

[Deathleech]

As for Lego, again partly the poor sales (if so) can be attributed to the set choices and catering more for wider target groups like Pirate ship rather than selling to the fan base. We know that different offerings and choices would have easily have generated more interest if the focus was mildly on battles.

I feel like Lego pretty much hit everything with their wave one Hobbit line. I can't think of any major scenes they didn't cover or that would have worked. Maybe a Rivendell Knight vs Warg Rider set? Other than that they pretty much nailed all the main action sequences and iconic locations (as well as some from DoS...). I mostly feel the same about the second Hobbit wave as well. I think Dol Guldur could of been less of a gray wall and more peaked towers, stairs, and ruins to better give the feeling of Dol Guldur, and the MEA set should of been a water gate with an armored elf, but overall the sets weren't that bad. I feel like most kids just aren't interested in Hobbit toys and I don't understand why. Was the original LotR merchandise a big hit back in the early 2000's when the movies were released? ToyBiz seemed to have done pretty well with it considering they made a variant of pretty much every main character in every outfit? They even did a ton of lesser characters and soldiers.

[atreyu2112]

I agree with the set decisions for Hobbit being right on track. It has a very good well rounded offering for what is in the movies thus far. I also agree about the DGA, DGB & MEA. They definitely could have been better. Especially MEA - thet should have been the water gate. But they're not that bad.

LotR Wave 1 was EPIC. However, wave 2 was SO weak. The choices of sets felt to me like they should have been a farewell wave AFTER all the other cool stuff came out. Like a "hey everyone, here's a little afterthought treat for you die hards". How we have a Mouth of Sauron and NO Sauron or Witch King of Angmar is WAY beyond all logical thought! When I think about Return of the King, I'm not thinking about the Priate/Corsair ship. I have not and will not get that. It doesn't even go along with the rest of my sets because I have NOTHING from Minas Tirith!!! I don't have anything for the Black Fleet to show up to rescue. WASTE.

The Black Gate really, although it is a very cool set, it should have been a wave 3 set. Also, we shouldn't have to buy 2 to make a true gate. I get the sales thing, but to me or the average parent buying it for their kid it's a deterrent. I have to buy 2 to make a true gate??? That's just BS right there. Make the set $10 more and include the second tower. The Rivendell set is great, but it's for AFOLs only really. Seriously, kids are not thinking about playing out the Council of Elrond when they think about LotR. The Wizard Battle, I get it but it's really a waste of time because of the Orthanc set.

Ah, The Orthanc set... epic indeed. I have it displayed proudly in my living room. But for the price, I am underwhelmed to say the least when I compare it to... the Ewok Village (like 20 minifigures, lol) or the likes. First off, NO TREEBEARD, but some generic ent? That is like saying, we have a Treebeard set coming and it's important enough for him to be separate from this set. But yet we have no Treebeard set. That's a HUGE WTF moment right there. If they weren't/arent gonna do a stand alone Treebeard set, he should have been included with this and that's a slap in the face to the fans. Secondly, It should have had AT LEAST as many minifigures as Helms Deep, so at minimum an additional 2 (to make it a total of 7). How about that fat Orc Captain that tells Saruman "we need more wood for the fires" and Saruman replies "burn the forest!" Or the Warg Captain... or even a few more Uruk Hai with the white hand armor?

I don't want to hear about poor sales or any of that bullsh*t. Put out the product EVERYONE wants! The iconic beasts and characters from this franchise and it will sell. Get the core stuff out FIRST, then reward collectors with the likes of The Mouth of Sauron, Council of Elrond and the Corsair. Hell, Toybiz didn't even get to the Corsair (the PJ character figure was slated for Epic Trilogy wave 3 which never hit) and they did pretty much EVERY character.

Main/major action sequences:

FotR: Prologue Battle, Black Riders/Weather Top, Balin's Tomb/Mines of Moria, Balrog/Bridge of Khazad Dum, Amon Hen

TTT: Balrog/Bridge of Khazad Dum (yeah, so epic it's in 2 FILMS), Riders of Rohan night attack, Warg Attack, Treebeard Encounter, Osgiliath Ruins/Fell Beast, Helms Deep, Ent Attack on Orthanc (No Treebeard though)

RotK: Attack on Osgiliath, The White Rider against the Winged Riders, Shelob Attacks, The Tower of Cirith Ungol (yeah, that battle between bad guys), The Seige of Minas Tirith/Grond, The Witch King Showdown, Oliphants, The Black Fleet/Corsair, The Black Gate

The Hobbit has WAY MORE of a well balanced representation than Lord of the Rings, which to me is just wrong in so many ways. LotR IS the reason I started collecting Lego, period. I like Hobbit too but LotR is where my heart is. So if we DON'T get the Balrog (I don't care if it comes with anything else), Witch King Showdown (with Fell Beast, Eowyn & Merry), Treebeard Encounter (Merry, Pippin & Grishnakh), And something with Faramir wether it be Osgiliath/Gondor Rangers or Minas Tirith/Gondor Soldiers... well, that would be such a lost opportunity for both Lego & collectors as well as the most epic failure of a license behind The Bridge Direct.

[HawkLord]

I think the TBD topic is relevant because it coincides with just how new this territory/arena/market seems to be for some companies despite the success of LOTR. When an action figure company like TBD can't follow in the easy to follow in footsteps of the old ToyBiz line, then something's amiss. TBD really dropped the ball from the first wave and are now even making the entire line a TRU exclusive...

I think that in this arena it would be helpful to Lego to have a ton of other Hobbit merchandise to drum up overall interest.

[Deathleech]

LotR Wave 1 was EPIC. However, wave 2 was SO weak. The choices of sets felt to me like they should have been a farewell wave AFTER all the other cool stuff came out. Like a "hey everyone, here's a little afterthought treat for you die hards".

Indeed. When you only have four sets in a wave you really need at least two or three of them to be big hits. You can't have a small wave full of sub par sets. It would of been like the first LotR wave just having Gandalf Arrives, Orc Forge, Attack on Weathertop, and Mines of Moria. None of them were really the stars of the first wave and were more support than anything. They worked though because they were still decent sets and you had the really awesome sets like Shelob Attacks and Helm's Deep to go along with them. If the second LotR wave had a big $100 Osgiliath set and a $30 Gondor Soldier set to go along with it, then the Wizard Battle and Black Gates setswould have been ok and it would of been a MUCH stronger wave two. Then the third wave could have hopefully had a couple strong sets like an $80 Witch King vs Eowyn set, a $60 Oliphant, and then Council of Elrond and the Pirate Ship Ambush to support them. As is those four sets we got in the second LotR wave all feel like B or even C team material, none of them were A team in my mind.

The Black Gate really, although it is a very cool set, it should have been a wave 3 set. Also, we shouldn't have to buy 2 to make a true gate. I get the sales thing, but to me or the average parent buying it for their kid it's a deterrent. I have to buy 2 to make a true gate??? That's just BS right there. Make the set $10 more and include the second tower. The Rivendell set is great, but it's for AFOLs only really. Seriously, kids are not thinking about playing out the Council of Elrond when they think about LotR. The Wizard Battle, I get it but it's really a waste of time because of the Orthanc set.

There are so many issues with the Black Gates it's not even funny. A 60 dollar set that Lego wants you to buy two of? Yet they make three of the five characters uniques? As much as I love the Mouth of Sauron figure I would of much rather had a Gondor Soldier or something I would of actually wanted two or more of. Plus he is only in the Extended Editions so he isn't exactly a must have, despite how cool he is. I also would of rather seen Gandalf the White in another set, but I am not sure where considering the line up. He doesn't really fit anywhere else. At any rate people say parents won't buy their kids army builders at $13 or even $30 so why on earth would they buy a $60 set twice?? And a set that has so many useless uniques to boot? I would of rather seen Lego just make it an $80 set. Add another tower on the side and give us a few more minifigures and call it a day. None of this buy two Black Gates and get all these unique characters you don't want, and a gate that opens in two spots unlike the movie without MODing nonsense.

Edited March 1, 2014 by Deathleech

[Darth Caedus]

There are so many issues with the Black Gates it's not even funny. A 60 dollar set that Lego wants you to buy two of? Yet they make three of the five characters uniques? As much as I love the Mouth of Sauron figure I would of much rather had a Gondor Soldier or something I would of actually wanted two or more of. Plus he is only in the Extended Editions so he isn't exactly a must have, despite how cool he is. I also would of rather seen Gandalf the White in another set, but I am not sure where considering the line up. He doesn't really fit anywhere else. At any rate people say parents won't buy their kids army builders at $13 or even $30 so why on earth would they buy a $60 set twice?? And a set that has so many useless uniques to boot? I would of rather seen Lego just make it an $80 set. Add another tower on the side and give us a few more minifigures and call it a day. None of this buy two Black Gates and get all these unique characters you don't want, and a gate that opens in two spots unlike the movie without MODing nonsense.

Agreed. For fun, let's consider how the LOTR sets should have been done, but with the restriction that the set concepts have to stay in the same ballpark.

Wave 1

$14.99 Gandalf's Cart. Add Bilbo. Now there's a reason for the set to exist.

$19.99 Shelob's Lair. Lose Gollum. Add Gorbag.

$24.99 Uruk-hai Army. Lose the ballista. Change 1 Uruk-hai to a Berzerker.

$29.99 Orc Forge. Scale the whole thing down considerably, lose the stupid light brick. Minifig count should be like the original UHA: 1x Uruk-hai, 2x Orc Engineers, 1x Lurtz, 2x Wildmen of Dunland.

$59.99 Weathertop. Lose Merry. Add another Nazgul. Give one a proper Morgul Blade.

$89.99 Balin's Tomb. Add Merry & if possible another Moria Goblin. Add Gollum and a rock for him to creep behind. Now Riddles for the Ring has a reason to exist as a cheap method of getting Gollum.

$129.99 Helm's Deep. Make Aragorn in his correct Helm's Deep outfit. Perhaps lose an Uruk and add another Galadhrim, or Gamling.

Wave 2

$12.99 Wizard Duel. Same, but at the very least with battle-damaged alt-faces for Saruman and Gandalf.

$34.99 Council of Elrond. Lose the useless side-area and make a less cramped, more impressive council area. Could also add in some bonus fig for fan appeal - old Gloin, perhaps, or a casual-wear member of the Fellowship (chillin' Aragorn, Poncho Legolas).

$79.99 Battle of the Black Gate. Add a second tower. Make the Orcs proper Morannon Orcs. Add at least 2x more non-uniques, 2 Gondorians would be best.

$109.99 Corsair Ship. Include 2 proper Morgul/Morannon Orcs and Guritz, the Orc Captain with his skull helm. Include at least 1 more Corsair (preferably the Bosun). Include an Oathbreaker cavalryman on ghostly steed.

$199.99 Orthanc. Make the Ent actually Treebeard. Delete the random Orc and Uruk. Add Sharku and Ugluk. Remove Gandalf the Grey, replace with Gandalf on Shadowfax. BONUS: add a fourth side to the tower and add Grishnakh armored Lurtz to increase price to $249.99ish.

Edited March 1, 2014 by Darth Caedus

[Deathleech]

I agree with pretty much everything you listed. There's only two possible issues. First off UHA and Orc Forge seem too close in price and minifigures to both be army builders. Based on what we have seen from Lego, I don't see them realistically doing that despite it being incredibly appealing. I really wish they would of just given us three Mordor Orcs in the Orc Forge like they originally showed at Toy Fair when they unveiled the set. So that would of been five figs total, two Mordor Orcs with hair, one bald, Lurtz, and a White Hand Uruk-hai. Even that would of made the set SOO much more appealing. Then it would of been a quasi-army builder at least and a decent way to stock up on Mordor Orcs. The second issue with your set ideas is Lego seems to LOVE to load their sets with main characters and you eliminated a number of them in their sets (good for us - less duplicates, supposedly bad for Lego - not as much appeal to kids).

As for the rest of the set ideas, I really like them more than what we actually got. If Black Gates was $80 bucks I think it would need at least 7 minifigures though? I wouldn't of minded seeing two Easterlings added to the existing line up since we probably won't ever get them in another set. That way the Black Gates set could of covered two scenes from the film. Also, honestly, I think Orc Forge could of been scraped for something more original or at least useful. I would of much rather seen Lego give us a good army builder and an evil one if at all possible. The good could of had Eomer, three Rohan Soldiers, and two elves while the evil could of just had Lurtz from Orc Forge, a White Hand Uruk-hai, two Mordor Orcs, and two regular Uruk-hai. BAM! You get everything in UHA and Orc Forge and then some.

[Slobey]

I picked up DGB today and was possibly the worst packaged set I've had.... No packaging around the instruction books so they were a crumpled mess and some of the stickers had come away from the sheet and adhered to the part bags. I was able to salvage them but still wasn't impressed when I opened the box.......

[kevkipo]

ShadowFax be nice

Did we ever have Shadowfax? i think not?

[Darth Caedus]

The second issue with your set ideas is Lego seems to LOVE to load their sets with main characters and you eliminated a number of them in their sets (good for us - less duplicates, supposedly bad for Lego - not as much appeal to kids).

I actually did not eliminate any named characters - they're all there, just distributed correctly.

I agree that Orc Forge is a stupid set concept - nobody needs to armybuild Isengard Orcs. Uruks are fine for forces of Saruman. It should have been an armybuilder for either Morannon Orcs or Gondorians, especially the latter.

[Deathleech]

I actually did not eliminate any named characters - they're all there, just distributed correctly.

Ahh, ya after looking back over your list I see now you just removed them from some sets but added them to others (and upped the price of those sets). Honestly I think SOME characters could of afforded to be in fewer sets. Specifically Frodo, Gimli, Bilbo, and especially Gandalf. Even just removing each from 1-2 sets each would give us room for significantly more new characters or soldiers. For instance I would of liked to of seen Gimli removed from the Pirate Ship set. I get they wanted Legolas, Aragorn, and Gimli there since they are all there in the movie and them coming off the ship is iconic, but they split up characters in tons of other sets so why not here? He is already in two other expensive sets (Mines and Helm's) and a cheap one (Council). This would of left room for an additional Corsair or another Undead without having to up the price at all. They could of done the same with all the other characters I mentioned before too.

[mrfootball]

Why so much complaining? Lego went through great lengths to promote the LOTR line with a great video game, a very nice microsite with video vignettes, posters, special edition figures, etc. A lot of work for a movie that came out over 10 years ago. I love all of the stuff they've released thus far. My kids love it too.

It just so happens that there is a current trilogy of (Hobbit) movies that they're focusing on now...moreso...a blockbuster of their own making (The LEGO movie) that has far surpassed even their own expectations. Demand for The LEGO movie merch is HUGE right now. Stores around me are wiped out...LEGO makes more money off those items than they do licensed items...so you can't fault Lego for wanting to strike while the iron's hot, maximizing profits and fill those shelves with Lego Movie sets. The fact that the LOTR/Hobbit items are becoming scarce in stores should tell you that they've sold fairly well...Can't wait for the new Hobbit sets in October and I'm holding out hope that LoTR will come back in 2015.

[Deathleech]

Why so much complaining? Lego went through great lengths to promote the LOTR line with a great video game, a very nice microsite with video vignettes, posters, special edition figures, etc. A lot of work for a movie that came out over 10 years ago. I love all of the stuff they've released thus far. My kids love it too.

While everyone has their own idea of what a "perfect wave" would be, I think we all are happy with the first LotR wave for the most part. Lego did an excellent job of picking suitable scenes, designing the sets and minifigures, promoting it, etc. Sure there are little things Lego could of maybe done better, like more accurate colors on outfits or slightly better scenes to make sets out of rather than Orc Forge, but these are really minor gripes. Lego DID do a great job with the first wave... and then it's like everything went out the window and they stopped trying with wave two. Only a few sets, most not even based on memorable scenes, the total lack of anything Gondor and major characters like Eowyn and the Witch King, etc.

The fact that the LOTR/Hobbit items are becoming scarce in stores should tell you that they've sold fairly well...Can't wait for the new Hobbit sets in October and I'm holding out hope that LoTR will come back in 2015.

If they are well stocked and selling out that's terrific. The thing is, I don't think that's what has happened. Of all my local Targets and Wal-marts I only ever saw maybe 2-3 of each wave two Hobbit set on shelves, and they weren't quick to be restocked it seems. This leads me to believe stores simply didn't order much stock due to poor wave two LotR sales. Of course I could be wrong and the sets could be flying off shelves and it just appears they are never re-stocked because they sell so fast, but considering most are clearanced already when I DO find them, or there were never even proper spots/tags leaves me to believe otherwise.

Edited March 2, 2014 by Deathleech

[Faefrost]

Why so much complaining? Lego went through great lengths to promote the LOTR line with a great video game, a very nice microsite with video vignettes, posters, special edition figures, etc. A lot of work for a movie that came out over 10 years ago. I love all of the stuff they've released thus far. My kids love it too.

It just so happens that there is a current trilogy of (Hobbit) movies that they're focusing on now...moreso...a blockbuster of their own making (The LEGO movie) that has far surpassed even their own expectations. Demand for The LEGO movie merch is HUGE right now. Stores around me are wiped out...LEGO makes more money off those items than they do licensed items...so you can't fault Lego for wanting to strike while the iron's hot, maximizing profits and fill those shelves with Lego Movie sets. The fact that the LOTR/Hobbit items are becoming scarce in stores should tell you that they've sold fairly well...Can't wait for the new Hobbit sets in October and I'm holding out hope that LoTR will come back in 2015.

That doesn't always mean what you might think it means. The reason the LotR and Hobbit sets are sold out and disapearing from stores is probably the stores are really only doing a single order of them and not restocking. Eyeballing store shelves can be deceptive if you don't take the backside flow of goods into account.

[Artanis I]

That doesn't always mean what you might think it means. The reason the LotR and Hobbit sets are sold out and disapearing from stores is probably the stores are really only doing a single order of them and not restocking. Eyeballing store shelves can be deceptive if you don't take the backside flow of goods into account.

I think this varies, some of my local retailers were cleaned out in less than a week of Hobbit sets, and never restocked. Others started with heaps and in time had an empty shelf for a week or so before re-stocking low levels of some sets. Other places have a tendency to keep their shelves full and neat at all times of every day, so the fact that there have been plenty of each set from release until now may be either due to no movement, high levels out the back, or constant re-ordering of stock.