LOTR & The Hobbit 2013 Set Discussion

[Legonardo]

along with all that I think a valid point is that its LotR we are discussing?

I've decided I am going to try horde gimli's. make them a generic soldier sort of thing.

[Faefrost]

As an aside, is there really a significant difference in price between licensed and unlicensed themes? I've heard a lot of moaning about licensed themes for this reason but when I've looked at the store, LOTR and non-licensed sets seem to have about the same cost per piece count. Can I just not divide correctly anymore or are some licensed themes worse about this?

The best answer to that I've seen is the article linked to in this thread over on the general forum. The Cost of a Brick.

http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=78404

Short answer, no there is no cost difference between licensed and unlicensed.

[Rogue Angel]

I have to agree that a new orc print, while nice, is less important to me than getting Gondorian soldiers, Wood Elves, Eowyn, Faramir, Galadriel... although I would rather have a new orc print over some of the more obscure characters - Grima Wormtongue for example (even though some will argue that he is a main character). I feel that the white hand armor and helm were a huge gift for orc lovers, and with the distinction between orcs and Uruk-hai already represented, the key points have been hit by Lego.

[Daenerys Targaryen]

New Mordor Orc prints/addition of the Morranon Orc + Mordor Uruk-hai would be nice, simply because Lego will almost certainly not be giving us the likes of the Easterlings who saw almost no screen time, nor the Haradrim + other Southrons. (heck, you need to hit the 'pause' button to even really see the Easterlings who snuck into RofK!)

Besides, Orcs and their various splinter types are the main evil servents, so for army builders especially, it's better to just focus on the one sub-set and give us more variation in minifig printings.

Considering you only get a limited number of minifigs per set, it's hard enough to build a large Ork or Army of the White Hand as it is!

For anyone wanting the more fringe armies or human-based evil forces, there's other producers who have done sets for things like the Easterlings, Black Numenoreans, Southrons (including the Corsairs of Umbar), Dol Amroth, the Grey Company, etc...

[Deathleech]

I have to agree that a new orc print, while nice, is less important to me than getting Gondorian soldiers, Wood Elves, Eowyn, Faramir, Galadriel... although I would rather have a new orc print over some of the more obscure characters - Grima Wormtongue for example (even though some will argue that he is a main character).

Oh don't get me wrong, I feel the same way. I would MUCH rather have a Gondor Soldier over a new Orc print, or any of the main characters like Faramir, Eowyn, etc. over a new orc. I would rather have a new orc print over 2 different undead soldiers though. THAT seems unnecessary and like a waste, especially when you consider the undead print will probably never be used again where as the Mordor Orc will be seen several more times. Heck, at this point I would even go for Lego including the Goblin King goblins in some LotR sets and call them Mordor Orcs, they look close enough. Mix and match pieces from them and give us something new.

[Str0ngbad]

Oh don't get me wrong, I feel the same way. I would MUCH rather have a Gondor Soldier over a new Orc print, or any of the main characters like Faramir, Eowyn, etc. over a new orc. I would rather have a new orc print over 2 different undead soldiers though. THAT seems unnecessary and like a waste, especially when you consider the undead print will probably never be used again where as the Mordor Orc will be seen several more times. Heck, at this point I would even go for Lego including the Goblin King goblins in some LotR sets and call them Mordor Orcs, they look close enough. Mix and match pieces from them and give us something new.

I agree with you here. It would have been better to have made two identical Ghosts of the Dead and a new Orc print. I guess the main reason I don't mind has to do with the number of the current Mordor orcs I have. They've only been released in a couple of sets and not in huge numbers or at a price that allows for army building. I am more miffed about them not giving us any hairpieces for them in either set but I agree that the appropriation of the new prints is a little odd

[Fives]

I agree with you here. It would have been better to have made two identical Ghosts of the Dead and a new Orc print. I guess the main reason I don't mind has to do with the number of the current Mordor orcs I have. They've only been released in a couple of sets and not in huge numbers or at a price that allows for army building. I am more miffed about them not giving us any hairpieces for them in either set but I agree that the appropriation of the new prints is a little odd

I've discovered that the old Knights Kindom II evil helmet in the metallic silvery colour looks great as an Orc helm. Also, I don't mind them all looking the same. In the end, army building will cause there to be quite a few repeats. I just recently bought 16 Orc keychains, removed the chains, and just gave them assorted weapons. Now I have an army of roughly 20 orcs, along with the Goblintown and Moria Goblins. I'm quite pleased with the result, and while a new print or helmet would look great, orcs are really just fodder soldiers anyway. I treat the Uruks like the true threat, due to their larger size and heavier armour.

Then again, this is all just my personal preference. As for the two different Dead Men of Dunharrow, I'm glad they went to the trouble of making two completely unique soldiers. They're likely never gonna make the Army of the Dead again, so I'm glad they went full out of the few figures they've made to represent the army in the LEGO world.

[TheLegoDr]

I think I'm in the category that loves army building, but it doesn't bother me to have everyone in the army identical. I look at them as soldiers first, I guess,instead of unique entities. But variation is always nice. I actually am glad they gave us two unique undead prints for the soldiers because we will probably never see them again. I'm so much in the camp of having similar army members that I'd want every orc to have the ear/hair combo instead of being bald. The ear/hair combo goes for a lot on bricklink. But same goes for the mirkwood elf polybag. The green hood is nice, but I can put a hood on anyone and they can become an elf. The elf to me is signified by the ear/hair combo which is left out.

As far as yet another Gimli, they do need to create the scenes so giving the main characters makes sense. And not everyone will have certain characters, so that's why they include them in certain sets. I guess that is probably why there is a Gandalf or Lone Ranger or Tonto polybags. Some people just want a certain character without buying the sets. But I actually really like the Gimli torso. Same with Eomer's. I have multiple Eomers and Gimlis, but they look really nice as generic soldiers. That dark red and dark bley look great together.

[Studebricker]

Somewhat late to the discussion, but re; polybags: I am one of the unfortunate ones who can never find them, as they are always out of stock. If new polybags are released I'd hope Lego ships sufficinet quantities. As much as I wanted a Mirkwood Elf, I wasn't not going to pay inflated ebay prices.

I'm in the same boat. I guess the army builders arrive at the stores earlier than i do. :)

[SheepEater]

I guess these guys will have to do for the task of defending Minas Tirith for now... and they are cheap and plentiful to boot

And these guys, I guess, to reinforce Sauron's mighty army

Edited February 20, 2013 by SheepEater

[Artanis I]

And these guys, I guess, to reinforce Sauron's mighty army

If you replace the heads & arms they're okay. The sand green skin & cute face doesn't look great next to the olive & dark tan orcs with the scary faces.

The crownies you need to turn into fleshies or they look way out of place, I'm not sure how good the torso & armour prints look next to LOTR minifigs though.

[giantevilrobot7777777]

At the very least I could see lego making new orc armour for morranon orcs beacuse I think we will probably get a Gothmog minifigure which will definately need to have different armour. To be honest I think we will get new orcs in the third wave because those are likely to be minas tirith/return of the king sets so we will get a lot more orcs from that wave and where as the first wave was focused around the Uruk Hai as being the main villains the third is likely to be focused more around the orcs which could mean new prints.

[Studebricker]

If you replace the heads & arms they're okay. The sand green skin & cute face doesn't look great next to the olive & dark tan orcs with the scary faces.

The crownies you need to turn into fleshies or they look way out of place, I'm not sure how good the torso & armour prints look next to LOTR minifigs though.

THAT is a "cute" face? I guess I get what you're saying, but it still struck me as funny...

[Leo604]

At the very least I could see lego making new orc armour for morranon orcs beacuse I think we will probably get a Gothmog minifigure which will definately need to have different armour. To be honest I think we will get new orcs in the third wave because those are likely to be minas tirith/return of the king sets so we will get a lot more orcs from that wave and where as the first wave was focused around the Uruk Hai as being the main villains the third is likely to be focused more around the orcs which could mean new prints.

Well the ROTK orcs are Mordor Orcs so it's more likely they'll just reuse those with some minor differences; Gothmog is a good possibility though but only as an exclusive for a larger set..

[jmagaletta]

Technically speaking Gothmog is a Minas Morgul Orc. Some differentiation is made in the books.

[Ardelon]

Technically speaking Gothmog is a Minas Morgul Orc. Some differentiation is made in the books.

Really, where? All I remember is a distiction between fighter and tracker Orcs. To me, this talk of breeds or varieties of Morgul/Morannon Orcs only signifies the location where these (entirely generic) Orcs were posted.

On a related note, as someone has already said, the Moria Orc torso is remarkably similar to the what the Orcs at Harlond wore (layers of jagged armor over dark red):

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121127120507/lotr/images/4/4b/Crew_of_Guritz.png

And since many Orcs were green, I say go ahead and and use the Moria torso. You can even use it with a brown head and think of the green bit as an undergarment, Id like an alternative orc as much as the next guy, but as others have noted, other main characters and Gondorians are a priority.

On to the wizard duel, its a shame the palantír wasnt the smoky trans clear color.

I think I prefer that the Eagle comes with studs instead of claws, this way it can be securely posed on a branch or cliff, which would be harder to do if it had claws.

As for the undead, I would have preferred something like trans yellowish green helmets and weapons, and maybe heads too. That would have better caprtured their ghostliness. Glow in the dark parts seem to be a pretty useless and purely gimmicky feature here, since both scenes where the dead fight take place during the day, and I cant see kids playing with their corsair ship in the dark. But I guess they can reenact the Dunharrow scene better,

Looking forward to better pics of PJ the Corsair (wish he was black instead of gray) and the Mouth of Sauron!

[Mr_Malfoy]

Really, where? All I remember is a distiction between fighter and tracker Orcs. To me, this talk of breeds or varieties of Morgul/Morannon Orcs only signifies the location where these (entirely generic) Orcs were posted.

On a related note, as someone has already said, the Moria Orc torso is remarkably similar to the what the Orcs at Harlond wore (layers of jagged armor over dark red):

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121127120507/lotr/images/4/4b/Crew_of_Guritz.png

And since many Orcs were green, I say go ahead and and use the Moria torso. You can even use it with a brown head and think of the green bit as an undergarment, Id like an alternative orc as much as the next guy, but as others have noted, other main characters and Gondorians are a priority.

Finally! Someone else besides me noticed that the Moria Orc has Morannon armor.

[jmagaletta]

Really, where? All I remember is a distiction between fighter and tracker Orcs. To me, this talk of breeds or varieties of Morgul/Morannon Orcs only signifies the location where these (entirely generic) Orcs were posted.

I may be mistaken but I remember reading how the orcs from Minas Morgul were different than the orcs at Cirith Ungol.

[Deathleech]

On a related note, as someone has already said, the Moria Orc torso is remarkably similar to the what the Orcs at Harlond wore (layers of jagged armor over dark red):

http://images1.wikia...w_of_Guritz.png

And since many Orcs were green, I say go ahead and and use the Moria torso. You can even use it with a brown head and think of the green bit as an undergarment, Id like an alternative orc as much as the next guy, but as others have noted, other main characters and Gondorians are a priority.

The only problem is the Moria Orcs are only in one set right now and it's fairly expensive, so fielding a huge army of Mordor Orcs with the Moria Orc chest is fairly difficult. Lego definitely should of used the Moria Orc chest for the orcs in the upcoming set, it looks MUCH closer to the movie.

[mpaisana]

I may be mistaken but I remember reading how the orcs from Minas Morgul were different than the orcs at Cirith Ungol.

Ok, so (quoting):

All Orcs:

Orcs of all kinds would not carry blades of Westernesse, which were "wound about with spells for the bane of Mordor". It is possible that these spells caused the glow in the presence of Orcs rather than any particular metal alloy or other physical ingredient.

Goblins/ Northerners/ Misty Mountains/ Moria Orcs:

Northern Orcs came from the Misty Mountains and said they were from "the Mines", Moria, on the hobbit march. They come for killing and vengeance, not interested in the idea of taking the hobbits or their spoils to either Saruman or Sauron, but only in getting rid of the prisoners and going home.

These smaller orcs were referred to as goblins by the narration during the first dominance fight with Ugluk. When the time came to stand against the Rohirrim, Ugluk allowed the Northerners to run into the Forest, leaving the hobbits with the Isengarders, although some of the larger and bolder Northerners remained with him.

Uruk-hai:

The Orcs of Saruman, who called themselves Uruk-hai, used an S elf-rune wrought in white metal on the front of their iron helms. Their shields had a small white hand centered on a black field. Aragorn commented that their gear was not in the manner of other Orcs at all. Instead of curved scimitars, they used short, broad-bladed swords. Their great bows were made of yew wood, in length and shape as those of Men.

They also appeared different physically: greater stature, swart, slant-eyed, with thick legs and large hands. Although they did not like the light of the sun, they could withstand it better than other orcs.

Mordor Orcs of the Tower:

Orcs in the Tower of Cirith Ungol used the symbol of a white moon disfigured by a death's face. This referred to the tower's once having been Minas Ithil, the "Tower of the Moon", before it was taken from the Gondorians.

Mordor/Morgul-orcs:

The Orcs in the service of Barad-dur, the folk of Mordor, used the symbol of the Red Eye, for Sauron. The Red Eye was painted on their shields. Sauron did not use his right name, nor permit it to be spelled or spoken. He did not use white.

Shagrat called these Mordor orcs "morgul-orcs".

At least one, a guard on the march with Merry and Pippin, had a black knife with a long saw-edged blade that was later used by Pippin to cut through the ropes on his hands.

These Orcs of Mordor referred to Sauron as the Great Eye.

Grishnakh was their Captain.

They were all long-armed and crook-legged, not as tall as the Isengarders but larger than the Moria Orcs. They could see better in the dark than the Isengarder Orcs could.

Via Here

For such a huge Tolkien fan, Jackson sure was a bit too inventive, in my opinion. The real biological difference between orcs is the separation between Uruk-Hai and regular Orcs. Other than that, only garments, weaponry and symbols.

Edited February 21, 2013 by mpaisana

[fuavarra]

Aren't there some Uruk-Hai from Mordor too?

http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Uruk-hai

[Leo604]

Aren't there some Uruk-Hai from Mordor too?

http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Uruk-hai

Same/similar name, but different from the species that were mass-bred in Uruk-hai.

[mpaisana]

I'm reading the books for the second time, in english (first one was many years ago, in Portuguese).

It is not clear to me wether the Uruk-Hai were created by Saruman, by crossing Orcs with Savage human tribes, but I think not. Jackson clearly indicates that Saruman is indeed their creator (as depicted in The Orc Forge set). Tolkien mentions that they were first used by Sauron in the third age, and it is common to see companies made both of Uruks and Orcs in the LOTR (like the ones who kidnapped Merry and Pippin), but I think there must be some difference between the so called "black uruks from Mordor" and the so called Uruk-hai, like some genealogical derivation, don't know.

You could write three more books trying to write down every imprecision on the movie adaptation by Jackson. But he is very honest relating to that. One of the most interesting facts about the Hobbit, is that it is the only fiction novel I've ever read that doesn't have one single female character. When I realized this I had to go back and make sure it was so, it's very uncanny. Tauriel was Jackson's invention, just like Galadriel's presence on the Hobbit. Saruman doesn't show up either.

[Daenerys Targaryen]

You could write three more books trying to write down every imprecision on the movie adaptation by Jackson. But he is very honest relating to that. One of the most interesting facts about the Hobbit, is that it is the only fiction novel I've ever read that doesn't have one single female character. When I realized this I had to go back and make sure it was so, it's very uncanny. Tauriel was Jackson's invention, just like Galadriel's presence on the Hobbit. Saruman doesn't show up either.

You need to read the appendicies.

Remeber - the entirety of the Dol Guldur story was added by Tolkien *after* he'd originally published The Hobbit.

He never set out with the intention of continuing the story, but rather was "encouraged" by the response & popularity of The Hobbit.

You can see this plainly evident in Gandalf's character alone - for the most part, he's a fairly useless character in The Hobbit itself and his constant disappearing is simply because Tolkien didn't really know at the time what/where to take this character!

[mpaisana]

Does anyone else noted that the 2012 Lego sales report doesn't even mention the Lord of The Rings? I've been looking at the document (the large and boring file), I've word searched it and there is no mention to LOTR or the Hobbit...

You need to read the appendicies.

Remeber - the entirety of the Dol Guldur story was added by Tolkien *after* he'd originally published The Hobbit.

He never set out with the intention of continuing the story, but rather was "encouraged" by the response & popularity of The Hobbit.

You can see this plainly evident in Gandalf's character alone - for the most part, he's a fairly useless character in The Hobbit itself and his constant disappearing is simply because Tolkien didn't really know at the time what/where to take this character!

Right now I'm on the aftermath of the Pelennor Battle. It's awesome. And we'll never see minifigs of the swan prince of Dol Amroth, he wasn't even in the movies.. Gandalf is like god, he his everywhere in all eras. Gandalf's involvement in the Hobbit was merely as a conspirator, I think! he's awesome :)