LOTR & The Hobbit 2013 Set Discussion

[Faefrost]

Ninjago introduced only a few weapon molds: the dragon sword, the cobra-like snakes, next year's elemental blades, the sais, and many blades used more for vehicles and spinners than for handheld use. Most of the other weapons used standard parts, along with a few new parts which were not exclusively weapons but could be used to make them, like the short chain and "nunchuk handles".

Chima is introducing three new weapons: a new glowy sci-fi axe head and two new glowy sci-fi swords, one good and one bad.

The running theme of these parts is that they fill niches which can't be filled by other parts. As important as Aragorn's sword is, if I recall it's a fairly standard shape, like the sword currently used for him in sets. Sting, on the other hand, is a fairly unique shape, which would be ill-depicted by existing swords and knives, thus necessitating a new mold. It's less about how important they are and more about whether existing parts are sufficient. Consider that almost every Jedi and Sith in Star Wars have lightsabers with unique hilts, but most lightsabers in Lego Star Wars use the exact same hilt, except ones which clearly have a different overall shape like Count Dooku's.

Actually the old chromed Kings sword would probably work well for Anduril. It's longer than the new CMF longsword that Aragorn currently has and stands out as something important. The only problem with it is the rounded tip..

[Mr_Malfoy]

I'm not sure if this information is relevant or not, but Brickset has listed four sets for The Lord of the Rings for 2013: The Wizard Battle (Isengard), The Council of Elrond (Rivendell), Battle at the Black Gate, and Pirate Ship Ambush (the Corsairs).

[Blakstone]

The Wizard Battle sounds promising to me as a cheap way of getting Sauramon but the Council of Elrond would have to have new minifigs for me. If it was part of an expanding sets of Rivendell that would be great. But we already have the Fellowship. If there were new prints on their minifigs, awesome. Right now, I am worried it would only have Elrond as a new minifig.

The Black Gate and Pirate Ship have been discussed here for a bit. I am still excited about the Black Gate but would have to see what minifigs are included before deciding on the Pirate Ship.

[Darth Caedus]

Those are all automatic buys. Think about it -

Wizard Battle - Isengard + Saruman, awesome

Council of Elrond - Elrond, possibly an Ian Holm Bilbo, possibly Arwen. No way it would just be repacks of the Fellowship, although I would expect a Frodo, and maybe Gimli for his action role in the scene.

Black Gate - Mouth of Sauron and Gandalf the White, too good to be true.

Pirate Ship - Undead + Corsairs. Sure, unnecessary additional Legolas, Gimli and Aragorn, but it'll still be a great armybuilder.

Hopefully the total adds up to under $250, it would be nice to have a lighter, but more high-impact wave (as oppose to something like Hobbit Wave 1, which has a lot of substantially priced, non-iconic sets like Warg attack and Barrel escape)

In fact, I'm prepared to wager that 2013 will be the peak year for Hobbit lego, as we'll get a great LOTR wave and then the TDOS sets in December, which have way cooler settings and characters to include - no longer bound to get all 13 Dwarves, Lego can give us Bard, the Master of Laketown, Beorn, Thranduil, and settings like Laketown, the Elven realm, and the Lonely Mountain.

Edited December 9, 2012 by Darth Caedus

[Deathleech]

I could easily see a Fell beast set like that mentioned to be closer to $25-30 just because of 3 figures and a potentially larger scaled Beast. I wouldn't think it would be as small as Shelob with 2 figures, even if it were brick built. Adding in another figure easily could bump it up in price and if it was molded, it would definitely get bumped up again. There was the Ice Dragon Attack Ninjago set that was around $20 with 2 figures, but the dragon itself was pretty lackluster. It had a giant head with a tiny body and unfinished wings. I don't think that is how they'd want to portray a Fell Beast.

Well based on the game cover the Fel Beast doesn't look like it would require much more plastic to make than the Cave Troll mold... the wings, neck, and tail just make it look larger but these are flat or narrow/long pieces that don't require a ton of plastic:

Compare to Shelob Attacks:

Look at the Witch King and Eowyn's size compared to the Fel Beast, and Frodo/Sam's to Shelob. The Fel Beast doesn't seem bigger than Shelob based on these two pics, and actually seems a bit smaller (not done to movie scale of course, but that's how it looks to be portrayed in the game). Also don't forget Shelob attacks actually has three minifigures, one of which was an entirely new mold (Gollum). It also had the small cave for Gollum to flip off of on top of Shelob. Of course a Fel Beast set would need something brick built to pass as a construction set, but I think a small rock formation or perch would do fine. Really THIS would be the piece that decides if it's a $20 set or in the 25-30 range though. I would easily give up Merry in the set to keep it at the 20 price as I think it would be an EXCELLENT set for kids at that price range and a huge seller. I imagine a $20 Witch King w/ Fel Beast set being really similar to this, except molded instead of brick built, slightly smaller dragon, one extra figure, and a smaller structure.

As important as Aragorn's sword is, if I recall it's a fairly standard shape, like the sword currently used for him in sets. Sting, on the other hand, is a fairly unique shape, which would be ill-depicted by existing swords and knives, thus necessitating a new mold. It's less about how important they are and more about whether existing parts are sufficient. Consider that almost every Jedi and Sith in Star Wars have lightsabers with unique hilts, but most lightsabers in Lego Star Wars use the exact same hilt, except ones which clearly have a different overall shape like Count Dooku's.

I think likeness to existing parts AND importance the item plays in the source material both play a big role in deciding whether a new mold is made for a certain piece or not. For example Orcrist looks kinda like existing swords, but more importantly it's hardly used or mentioned in the books at all. Because of this Lego didn't make a unique mold for it. Sting on the other hand is used at least a few times throughout the LotR trilogy (against Shelob, to warns of the coming goblins/orcs in Mines of Moria and Tower of Barad-dûr), it's used several times in the Hobbit (against the orcs, spiders, in the Battle of the Five Armies, etc.), and it also has a unique shape. I mean it's included in 3 or 4 separate sets already after just two waves. Lego took all these things into consideration and made a new mold for it.

I'm not sure if this information is relevant or not, but Brickset has listed four sets for The Lord of the Rings for 2013: The Wizard Battle (Isengard), The Council of Elrond (Rivendell), Battle at the Black Gate, and Pirate Ship Ambush (the Corsairs).

Nice sounding sets, but still disappointed at the lack of any Gondor-related structures, and possible lack of Fel Beast and Witch King.

Edited December 9, 2012 by Deathleech

[Archer]

Was I mistaken in thinking that we'd heard somewhere this wave would have something like 8 sets?

[Deathleech]

Was I mistaken in thinking that we'd heard somewhere this wave would have something like 8 sets?

Ya, some guy claimed he had insider info and there were 8 sets to be released in March, but he quickly deleted his post right after that. He only told us the supposed price point and minifigures included in three of the sets which were the Isengard Tower, a Balrog set, and Treebeard.

Speaking of Treebeard, that's one set I totally forgot about but definitely wanted to see in Lego form before this line ends. So, to up date, my "must haves" for the LotR line to be totally happy would be a Minas Tirith set, a Balrog one, a Witch King on Fel Beast vs Eowyn and Merry, and Treebeard with an Ent or two and Merry and Pippin. I would also love some Gondor, Mordor Orc, Haradrim (with Mumakil), Easterling, and Rohan battle packs (in order from most to least wanted).

Also those sets on Brickset sound like a pretty solid and realistic line up. Of course it's yet another conflicting report with no mention whatsoever of the Frodo/Ringwraith set or Eagle's Nest set listed. No Gondor stuff either, but maybe (hopefully?) they are saving it for an end wave to go out with a bang? I will say four sets seems like a really small wave but who knows, there could be a fifth exclusive set or D2C one for the 2013 summer wave we just aren't hearing about. Both LotR and Hobbit waves have had one so far so I don't see why not.

Edited December 9, 2012 by Deathleech

[Gryphon Ink]

Eh, if it were a smaller molded Fel Beast like the ones in the video game I could easily see it being in the 15-20 dollar range, albeit probably closer to 20. I mean I don't see them making the set any bigger than Shelob if the Fel Beast is brick built, which I doubt it would be.

I don't believe the Fell Beast will be molded, but if it is I'm sure the set will be more expensive than you're thinking. TLG generally don't, at least in the last few years, put unique molded creatures in sets that small. Looking at Dino 2012, the cheapest sets featured the tiny one-piece dino and the rather small pterosaur. The raptor, which really wasn't that much bigger but was more substantial and a bigger draw for dino fans, was in the $30 set. And that was without any really special minifigs adding to the value (although the set itself was pretty cool!)

Now, for this set you've got at the very least the Fell Beast, the Witch King, and Eowyn in armor. Merry would probably also be included. A unique, very special creature and at least two really hot minifigs. If the Beast is molded, I would bet that TLG would want that set to run for at least $40. The problem with that is that there's no construction. The fight between Eowyn and the Witch King takes place in the middle of a flat field littered with corpses. I think they would solve that problem by making the Fell Beast brick-built, something like a Ninjago dragon. And then you could put it in a $20-30 set, similar to Shelob Attacks.

Either that or they will just not do this scene at all. I hope that's not the case, though, because I want that scene even more than I want Minas Tirith.

[Faefrost]

Was I mistaken in thinking that we'd heard somewhere this wave would have something like 8 sets?

It may be 8 sets combined. A mixed bag between LotR and Hobbit. With a more spread out release.

[General Magma]

I sure hope it's a full LOTR wave, not LOTR and Hobbit mixed.

Otherwise, our only chance of seeing Gondorians next year would be the Black Gate set, and what a slim chance it is...

'Wizard Duel' would normally sound like a small set to me if it weren't for the Isengard build we had seen earlier.

Also, I can see a Éowyn vs the Witch-King set being a problem for TLG,

because, really, what else could they put in the set besides that large, molded Fell Beast?

The piece count wouldn't be very high. If they can't make it like the popular suggestion, then perhaps the Witch-King needs

to be in a different set with his Fell Beast, and an armored Merry with Éowyn in a Pelennor Fields set.

Edited December 9, 2012 by General Magma

[Marvelfan120]

It may be 8 sets combined. A mixed bag between LotR and Hobbit. With a more spread out release.

if I recall correctly I have heard of 7 rumored sets between ROTR and the Hobbit (I have notes on my computer at home but am on vacation at the moment) for the coming wave so 8 might be about right. I'm not sure if they are spred out. My hope was for 7+ this wave and more with the second Hobbit release but that might be wishful thinking

[Mr_Malfoy]

I'm just putting in my two cents,

I honestly think that a Fellbeast could be either molded of brick-built. Either way, $20 is an ideal price for a Witch-King set: Théoden King, Eowyn, Merry, and the Witch-King () with Théoden's horse and the Fellbeast. Here's what I expect for the 2013 sets known so far:

Wizard Battle (Isengard) - Saruman, Gandalf, Grima Wormtongue, and a few Mordor Orcs (maybe an Ent or two), with Orthanc and maybe some machines.

The Council of Elrond - Elrond, Frodo, old Bilbo, Arwen, and another member of the Fellowship, with the location of the Council, Frodo's room, and the statue with the broken sword Anduril(?).

Battle at the Black Gate - Gandalf the White, Mouth of Sauron (), Aragorn in Gondorian armor, two Mordor Orcs, the troll Aragorn fights, three horses, the actual Gate, and the two towers (). However, it should include a Rohirrim and a Gondorian soldier and maybe two Easterlings and another Orc if it wanted to be perfect.

Pirate Ship Ambush - The trio (Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli), three Corsairs (one as PJ), two Orcs, the King of the Dead, several Oathbreakers, a Corsair ship, a small dock, and a little gate to represent the Paths of the Dead.

Treebeard Encounter - Merry, Pippin, Grisnakh, Orc, Rohirrim, Treebeard, some trees, the Orc camp, and a horse.

Bridge of Khazad-Dum - Gandalf (again ), two Moria Orcs, Frodo, the Balrog (please be the one from the videogame... please be the one from the videogame...), and the collapsing bridge.

As for Minas Tirith, I think Nuju Metru's design is the best way to do it.

[GandalfofHoth]

I sure hope it's a full LOTR wave, not LOTR and Hobbit mixed.

Otherwise, our only chance of seeing Gondorians next year would be the Black Gate set, and what a slim chance it is...

I would hope this comes true. The Gondorians are some of my favorite people. I hope TLG make a set with them. I would definitely buy it, but the odds aren't to good. We can only hope.

[wonkyeye]

Whoops! I thought all the discussion above was speculation

Anyway I can't wait to get the new Elrond. His design from the game is amazing.

Edited December 9, 2012 by wonkyeye

[The_Chosen_1]

Wonkyeye, read the previous posts. Everyone has been discussing them.

[Legomaster34]

Does anybody think The Council of Elrond might come with Gloin? It seems to be the only way to get the old version of him, and him with a new Elrond would make that set very desirable. Is this just wistful thinking on my part?

[Durins Bane]

I think they HAVE to give us Gondor. I would rather have a piece of minas tirith, witchking on fellbeast attacking gondor soldiers.

I cant see them calling a set with Orthanc wizard battle. I also dont think they will include ents in the wb set.. they would either do ents vs orthanc with orcs, or gandalf vs saruman in a small set..

[wesker]

Also, I can see a Éowyn vs the Witch-King set being a problem for TLG,

because, really, what else could they put in the set besides that large, molded Fell Beast?

The piece count wouldn't be very high. If they can't make it like the popular suggestion, then perhaps the Witch-King needs

to be in a different set with his Fell Beast, and an armored Merry with Éowyn in a Pelennor Fields set.

I won't be complaining if we see the Witch-King and his Fell Beast in a Minas Morgul set. Especially if it uses those glow in the dark pieces.

[Vindice]

I think the Fell beast will be be molded. I think the Balrog would be brick built if/when we see him. I think the Dino range showed just how good TLG can get the molds now for large scale creatures and i think they're committed to that process.

It wouldn't surprise me to see a mixed wave, as they may have been a bit concerned initially that the LOTR range wouldn't sell well enough to not have any support from something that was currently in the mind of children (The Hobbit). Remember LOTR has not been a great license in the past for Toys so history would be on the side of this way of thinking.

Having said that I'd love to see a LOTR specific range. Be interesting to see what the flagship set is. My guess is that either the corsair ship will be large with 8-10 minifigs (possibly 12 with some cheap skeletons) or that the black gate set will feature some of Barad-dur and have a good number of Gondorians and Orcs plus maybe a battle troll.

[Faefrost]

I suspect that the Fel beast when we finally see it will have a new molded head and maybe wings. Everything else will be brick built to allow for play features like the head being chopped off.

[General Magma]

I suspect that the Fel beast when we finally see it will have a new molded head and maybe wings. Everything else will be brick built to allow for play features like the head being chopped off.

No, I'm sure that everything will be molded, save for perhaps a few normal pieces you can add in.

The head would be a separate mold connected to the neck.

[Blakstone]

The issue with molding the fell beast is that it would have to go in a bigger LEGO set. Remember, TLG has the construction toy license. If they sell just a few minifigs and a molded fell beast, there would have to be quite a bit of scenery to build OR they could do some minifigs and have you build the fell beast yourself. No matter what direction they go, I am excited to see what they do with it.

[General Magma]

The issue with molding the fell beast is that it would have to go in a bigger LEGO set. Remember, TLG has the construction toy license. If they sell just a few minifigs and a molded fell beast, there would have to be quite a bit of scenery to build OR they could do some minifigs and have you build the fell beast yourself. No matter what direction they go, I am excited to see what they do with it.

That's why we'd be more likely to see armored Merry with Éowyn in a Pelennor Fields set, perhaps with a Mûmak

and a Siege Tower if they have to add something to the set for a proper piece count, and the Witch-king in a Minas Morgul set,

and otherwise Minas Tirith would work along with a Fell Beast, too.

[Deathleech]

I sure hope it's a full LOTR wave, not LOTR and Hobbit mixed.

Otherwise, our only chance of seeing Gondorians next year would be the Black Gate set, and what a slim chance it is...

Well if the summer wave is a mix of LotR/Hobbit sets I would hope the winter one would be too to make up for the fewer LotR sets earlier in the year. However doing it this way doesn't really make sense for either license. Releasing all LotR sets in the summer, and then Hobbit ones in the winter (when the first two movies come out) and the hype for them is at it's peak makes the most sense. The only reason I could see Lego mixing the summer wave is to try and boost LotR sales by showing kids the Hobbit and LotR are from the same universe and trying to get them more interested in that license as well and play off the Hobbit hype. Right now the only source reporting we will have a mix wave is the German toy site, and for all we know they could be wrong with the wording and it could actually be referring to something else. I know it's probably a slim chance.. but maybe the "Eagle's Nest" set refers to Gandalf on the roof of Orthanc? That would seem to make more sense as every other source has mentioned an Orthanc or wizard duel set and nothing about a mixed LotR/Hobbit wave or eagles in the summer. After all they did call the Corsair ship just "Pirate Ship" so who knows?

'Wizard Duel' would normally sound like a small set to me if it weren't for the Isengard build we had seen earlier.

I dunno, I assume the Black Gate will be at least a $50-60 set, and the Corsair Ship sounds to be in the 100-130 dollar price range. That would leave either the $10-40 range for the Wizard Duel, or the $70-90 range. Based on the description I too think it sound like a small set. A duel is just two people. If they called it Orthanc Tower or Saruman's Tower or Isengard or something that would lead me to think it would be the entire tower, not just a small diorama of part of a room and Gandalf and Saruman battling. Who know though. I would LOVE for this to be a big 80 dollar tower and include Saruman, Gandalf, Wormtongue, a couple orcs, and maybe even an eagle. I never really like the small sets anyways so that's probably making me bias anyways.

Also, I can see a Éowyn vs the Witch-King set being a problem for TLG,

because, really, what else could they put in the set besides that large, molded Fell Beast?

The piece count wouldn't be very high. If they can't make it like the popular suggestion, then perhaps the Witch-King needs

to be in a different set with his Fell Beast, and an armored Merry with Éowyn in a Pelennor Fields set.

Right, and this is really a problem with ANY Pelennor Fields set. The fields are nothing more than flat, dusty land. There isn't even big rock out croppings or trees to make like with some of the Hobbit scenes. Lego could do a Pelennor Fields set but if they did they would have to make a brick built Mumakil to keep it a construction toy, a battering ram, and/or the Minas Tirith gates. I really would love to see them go with the ladder. They could make Minas Tirith in two parts, an upper and lower city. The lower could have the base wall and gate, maybe a battering ram, and include a couple orcs, Rohan soldiers, Theoden, and maybe Eowyn and Merry vs the Witch King on Fel Beast. The upper half of Minas Tirith could be another level or two and the very top level with the Citadel and White Tree and include Pippin, Denethor, Faramir, Gandalf the White, an orc or two and several Gondor soldiers. Ideally they would also make a battle pack/castle buildier like with Helm's Deep and it would have a siege weapon and Minas tirith wall piece to expand the city with, and then 2 Gondor Soldiers and 4 Mordor Orcs.

The issue with molding the fell beast is that it would have to go in a bigger LEGO set. Remember, TLG has the construction toy license. If they sell just a few minifigs and a molded fell beast, there would have to be quite a bit of scenery to build OR they could do some minifigs and have you build the fell beast yourself. No matter what direction they go, I am excited to see what they do with it.

Right, which is something I was talking about before. The more I think about it the more I think the Witch King and Fel Beast (if molded) should just be part of a Minas tirith/Pelennor Fields set, or an Osgiliath set. There really is no decent structure to add to a Eowyn/Merry vs Witch King set unless you make the Fel Beast brick built, which I would rather they didn't do.

[Faefrost]

I still strongly suspect that when we do see a Pelinor Fields set it will be something along the lines of the Ninjago 2521 Lightning Dragon set. The Fel Beast will be he primary build. 4 figs. A horse, and probably some sort of small terrain object like a catapult. It's the sort of set we know they have done before. Yeah they could do a huge set to squeeze in a new fully molded Fel Beast and then surround it with something to be built, but I just don't see them going down that path.

For LotR and the Hobbit they have been making scenes not places. They have everything they need to make the Aowyn vs the Witch King in their bag of tricks now, and keep it to. Mid sized/priced set. That's what they will go for. Besides rhe designers like creating organic shapes out of Lego. That's why we have a brick built Shelob.

The same idea will hold true with any depictions of Mina's Tirith. Unless they do a huge Deathstar type $400 play set. Otherwise we will get a bunch of individual scenes. Stuff like the main gate with the battering ram, the white tree, lighting the beacon, an orcish siege tower, Faramirs Charge, the tomb of he stewards, etc. little small sets of bits and pieces like Mines of Moria or the Goblin King. They will not be interconnected modules. They won't be stacking layers. They will have great figs. At best we may see an army builder set with a modular piece of wall that connects to the main gate. And let's be honest with ourselves, if they did attempt to do a single huge Mina's Tirith set what we would get would be something of roughly he same size, shape, play value, and disturbingly high cost as an average traditional wedding cake. Just less delicious.