jorgeopesi

Can we write the unwritten rules?

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I am still a little surprised that the 8110 Unimog has the roof being stressed downwards in order to connect with the windshield pillars... Unless my wife has it built wrong...

As far as I can tell the roof is built on a hinge, thus making it perfectly legal. :classic: I can't imagine how your wife must have it built. :tongue:

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I agree with Allanp except with the tyres, I am too purist for them... I can see pics but better if you show me the MOC with the Lego tyres.

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I agree with Allanp except with the tyres, I am too purist for them... I can see pics but better if you show me the MOC with the Lego tyres.

Yeah, I don't care for the aftermarket tires and wheels either.

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How about this, there my LEGOS,s and I,m gonna do what I want, LOL. I like building things that LEGO would never think of, and if that means I have to mod something oh well. To me its about filling in the gap where LEGO lacks the parts I need to build what I want.

Dan

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OK:

non-Lego String, rubber bands, pneumatic hose

custom stickers

Batteries of any kind, including the custom battery back mentioned earlier

OK in moderation:

Coloring parts

Using unexisting colors in LDD

NOT OK:

Gluing parts.

Damaging parts.

Megabloks models in a city layout. (yes, I have seen this... in person. See those yellow construction vehicles in the upper middle of this pic)

http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/booba33/ExpotrainLaval/Avril2012/p1050493.jpg

Using non-Lego parts.

Custom electronic parts. Back in 2002, nothing pissed me off more than seeing some technic MOCer getting praises and then I found out he used HiTechnic's custom stuff to make his models RC. A true Lego MOC back then would have used a Lego built remote (with 9v switches) that is physically connected to the model with Lego electric wires, along with some pneumatic tubes if the remote contains a pneumatic compressor + switches.

I also remember seeing a review of a recent Lego train set on youtube that really got me angry. The guy went out of his way to complain that Lego didn't include enough tracks in the set; and spent HALF OF THE REVIEW showing everybody how crafty he is by building his own train tracks from junk he had around his house. I angrily left him a message, "In case you didn't know, Lego sells train tracks separately, you cheapskate!"

Sure, anybody can use their toys how they want... it's when someone presents a MOC to others as a Lego MOC that I get irksome when it breaks some rules.

Edited by SheepEater

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Maybe I miss the point but always using only Lego parts would mean that there wasn't a Technic theme at all. What is the fundamental difference (considering only the final product) between a Lego-employee-designer or a non-Lego-employee designer?

I am a purist by the way, I would never modify parts but why?

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What is the fundamental difference (considering only the final product) between a Lego-employee-designer or a non-Lego-employee designer?

The former has a say in which new parts get designed :sweet:

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This sort of discussion always strikes me as a bit pointless.

I personally don't glue or paint or cut parts (with the exception of flex tube and stickers), but I do use custom stickers and plenty of so-called illegal connections. I stress elements all the time. I couldn't build a B-52 with a 5ft wingspan otherwise. Some people stick to 'legal' connections. Custom tyres are OK for some people but not for others. Some people may think that all parts should be made by LEGO, but are also OK with using Brickarms or other 3rd party vendors. I know people who will only cut flex tube to lengths that LEGO has made in sets or who feel that cardboard is fine as long as it used to be part of the box that LEGO came in. I think you may be getting the picture: we all have our own sets of rules that we apply to our MOCs and they are always largely arbitrary.

The only exception is the rule that somebody else should be able to build it from instructions (and even that allows cutting flex tube), but frankly I don't give a toss about whether or not somebody else can build something I came up with. It's my hobby and I make my own rules and I am certainly not going to change the way I do things for the sake of somebody else's largely arbitrary rules.

Cheers,

Ralph

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non-Lego-employee designer?

What is a non-Lego-employee ?

Someone like Adam Reed Tucker ?

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To me, all parts should be made to TLG even if they are stuff like Duplo, Modulex, Znap, etc.

Natural wear and tear on parts is allowed, cutting, gluing, filing down parts isn't allowed, taking lego assemblies such as turntables etc to bits and using the components of it as lego parts is fine to me, stickers can overlap but cannot be cut, old lego parts is also fine.

It simply comes down to this (since this is a technic forum), you need a certain few things in a part and sometimes non technic parts have them, such as for example something that has a certain diameter to fit another part, or type of fixing, ive uses round 1x1 bricks as rims for the tiny lego rubber slick tires, they were a good width unlike using the technic pin joiner, but there was another reason, this round 'system' brick had a hole but it was not a pinhole so the axle didn't rotate freely inside of it, this was useful because there was a motor hooked to the axle.

The other thing is parts that are only really used for the appearance, using non technic parts creatively can help fill in small gaps in the model , sometimes very well other times a bit less, other times it can be used to look good but not block any mechanism or just plainly to look good.

LEGO is very limited and I want more parts but that's expensive so ill have to wait, new parts come out each year but if they cant fix a problem and another lego part cant then you re stuck with your MOC unless you go non purist.

This is how I build I don't know about you but do what you feel is right.

Edited by SNIPE

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The arbitrary rules help me to be better, find new solutions, think more and compete on equal terms with those who do the same thing and I'm still saying that everyone can do what he wants I will have better consideration to MOC that I please. If these unwritten arbitrary rules didn´t exist, we would have adamantium around here :laugh:

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As far as I can tell the roof is built on a hinge, thus making it perfectly legal. :classic: I can't imagine how your wife must have it built. :tongue:

She has it built correctly and I know that it is built on a hinge, however, these 2 pieces 33299.gif are preventing the hinge from doing what it is supposed to do.. With these in place there has to be something flexing a bit somewhere to make the connection...

vx9.jpg

This isn't a big deal to me because it shows that there is some Legal tolerance allowable when getting things to line up...

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There is a major LEGO convention (Brickcon 2012 in Seattle, WA USA) coming up in a few weeks. I have attended that convention twice in the past few years. Nowhere on the MOC registration webpage, or in the registration package, does it say that one MUST use 100% LEGO parts. I suppose it's an unwritten rule, but if I were to display a modified 9398 4x4 Crawler with non-Lego (3rd-Party) tires, would it be banned from public display? I doubt it.

7710766498_f49e7235cb_c.jpg

There have been full-size, realistic LEGO weapons (AK-47s and the like) that were displayed at Brickcon 2011, and nobody banned them (even if they were in poor taste for a family event like that).

SO, if non-Lego parts are not banned from a major LEGO AFOL convention, why isn't it "good enough" for you AFOLs?

I attend car shows all the time, and see non-OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) tires on cars. Do people "look down their noses" at low-profile tires mounted on cars? NO, they think they're cool.

Being a "Lego Purist" is limiting -- keep you mind open to other possibilities.

Edited by DLuders

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For me, the rule of thumb is simply a question of material: if it's plastic, rubber or metal, it should be a genuine, unmodified LEGO part (I don't consider "right-sizing" things like pneumatic tubing a modification because those particular official parts are designed to be cut to length). I have no objection to the use of LEGO but non-technic parts in technic MOCs, it's all LEGO to me.

For other materials like cloth, string, or custom printed labels, again I have no problem so long as the non-LEGO elements are a finishing touch (rather than a focus) of a creation. If someone builds a mammoth crane but runs non-LEGO string through the pulleys, I'm not going to hold that against them; Likewise, an awesome sailboat build doesn't suddenly become some non-LEGO art project just because the creator put a paper sail on the technic mast.

If non-traditional coupling techniques are used, like rubber bands or magnets, or even string, I think they should be official LEGO rubber bands, magnet couplers, and 1x1 round string coupled plates because in this situation the items aren't just decorative, they are being used structurally and I think a "genuine" model should be able to support itself using only genuine parts.

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There's also the case of the infamous 3l blue connector peg used in the 8043! Even TLG designers do things that are against the rules :laugh:

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I know at Brickfair that they stressed that everything that was being displayed had to be 100% Lego...

Well, then, were you allowed to display your MOCs with chromed wheels? They look cool, and the public would enjoy seeing them.... :thumbup:

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Then again, there were minifigs and weapons displayed on people's MOCs that most certainly did not come from The Lego Company...

So there is another topic for discussion... Should aftermarket minifigs and weapons be allowed to be used..?

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This topic is like asking "Mac vs. PC". There is no point in even asking the question because everyone builds for different reasons and therefore their opinions will be just as valid is anyone else's. We will never get "community agreement" because there is no right answer. How about we agree on this: "Enjoy your LEGO Technic". As long as you are doing that, I'm not going to complain.

I am still a little surprised that the 8110 Unimog has the roof being stressed downwards in order to connect with the windshield pillars... Unless my wife has it built wrong...

You are right. If you look at my elevation view CAD picture below, you can see that I had to angle the roof to make it line up. However, in real life tolerances make this possible without forcing it.

8110-cab.png

As a bigger example of this, consider RoscoPC's F1 starting grid, pictured below. In CAD, everything lines up fine. But in real life, making several meters of bricks stacked up and then trying to join the edges with parts lengthwise, it didn't fit at all. Luca said it was mismatched by many millimeters, and this IS a legal construction! This is a good example of why what works is more important than what's legal. In fact, I live my life by the same standard!

final.jpg

Edited by Blakbird

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Well, then, were you allowed to display your MOCs with chromed wheels? They look cool, and the public would enjoy seeing them.... :thumbup:

LOL.. They had a Hi-Def picture of my Porsche with chrome wheels on the back cover of the Brickfair attendees guide...

They are real Lego wheels... I guess that it is no different than someone printing up a custom sticker and using it on their MOC... The thing is, I can still display the same exact thing without the chrome and it doesn't change the actual design...

This topic is like asking "Mac vs. PC". There is no point in even asking the question because everyone builds for different reasons and therefore their opinions will be just as valid is anyone else's. We will never get "community agreement" because there is no right answer. how about we agree on this "Enjoy your LEGO Technic". As long as you are doing that, I'm not going to complain.

You are right. If you look at my elevation view CAD picture below, you can see that I had to angle the roof to make it line up. However, in real life tolerances make this possible without forcing it.

I think this is a good thing in a way because it shows that there is slight room for tolerance... I guess that it comes down to whether or not a part is actually being damaged by the way that it is being used... I know that I've done some models where I was doing similar things and I felt bad about the model, but I wasn't really damaging anything, but in my mind, I felt like I was breaking rules...

Edited by Paul Boratko

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Should aftermarket minifigs and weapons be allowed to be used..?

Well, since non-Lego minifigs (and weapons from Brickarms) have been displayed at many Lego AFOL conventions for years, the answer is "Yes". The Lego Group has had HUGE success in their Collectable Minifig Series, so that gives you an idea that there is HUGE demand for "custom" stuff.

TO BE CONSISTENT, if the organizers have allowed non-Lego parts to be displayed (and have even had them as convention "Sponsors" and vendors), why can't custom Lego Technic-related parts be allowed too? :look:

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Well, since non-Lego minifigs (and weapons from Brickarms) have been displayed at many Lego AFOL conventions for years, the answer is "Yes". The Lego Group has had HUGE success in their Collectable Minifig Series, so that gives you an idea that there is HUGE demand for "custom" stuff.

TO BE CONSISTENT, if the organizers have allowed non-Lego parts to be displayed (and have even had them as convention "Sponsors" and vendors), why can't custom Lego Technic-related parts be allowed too? :look:

That is a very good point and exactly why I mentioned it...

If Brickarms started making custom Wheels, would they then be allowed to be used...? :sceptic:

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This topic is like asking "Mac vs. PC". There is no point in even asking the question because everyone builds for different reasons and therefore their opinions will be just as valid is anyone else's. We will never get "community agreement" because there is no right answer. How about we agree on this: "Enjoy your LEGO Technic". As long as you are doing that, I'm not going to complain.

your right this is a topic without a end. It has been asked many times before and there are still no answers.

It's a personal taste

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Since I have taught Lego robotics from way before Mindstorms, I am always OK with non-LEGO solutions. My first Lego robots used Handyboard computers, and hand wired sensors. In general, I like the challenge of using a 100% Lego solution. But I also like being able to teach techniques that are not possible with Lego sensors, like integrating over a rate sensor.

At Brickfair, the rule seemed to be, no parts from Lego competitors. I used a number of sensors and wires from Mindsensors and HiTechnic for my pinball machine. I also, like all other working pinball machines I know of, used a non-Lego ball. I think that is fair.

To each his/her own I guess.

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This topic is like "Wargames" nobody wins... everybody loses but it is good to know the different opinions. To be exposed any MOC is good I just hope that for competitions, like trial trucks for example, we can make rules.

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