Effective High Speed

[1974]

Coll vids! Why don't you use current limiters (low resistance NTCs)? That way stalled motors won't burn out

Also, very nice music, reminds me of Thievery Corporation

Edited September 14, 2012 by 1974

[Ferrik]

This looks excellent. I love the landscape.

[DanSto]

Those are some great vids, but I am looking for some info.

On those banking curves in the videos, what is used as the base of the curve that keeps the track at an angle?

Thanks.

Concerning the tracks, if you read french, have a look on this page.

To give the essential info, these are self-made tracks by Denis H.

He uses a resine to build a base (some old broken briks are included into it to reduce the volume of the needed resine)

And finally he gets the final section of the curves :

.

So for mounting the curve, he has just to put these long sections together to recover the curvature and the angle immediately including the straigth-curved transition section.

[DanSto]

The last official High Speed Train I have build is inspired by the Italo AGV

it is a fully articuled train having 11 cars and is very nice in red.

For high speed, it is build as light as possible using split train bases

and panels

when possible.

Unfortunately, the curved panels are not available in red so I used trans-blue ones which gives a panoramic look to the train (the final version will include red stickers).

This video shows it at Fana'briques 2012 where it reached the max speed of 21,3 km/h.

[Brickthus]

Those are some great vids, but I am looking for some info.

On those banking curves in the videos, what is used as the base of the curve that keeps the track at an angle?

If you want to go fast but not for a world speed record, you can achieve a similar effect with Flexi-track and just unmodified LEGO parts like this:

Other pictures in the folder explain how to make the base.

The cambering parts and ballast are attached to the track.

The slope and track curvature are created with orthogonal composite tiles and brick walls in the baseplate.

So far I have 72ft and 104ft curves, which replace curves with 1 and 2 straights between each standard curve respectively, but any radius is possible.

Mark

[DanSto]

If you want to go fast but not for a world speed record, you can achieve a similar effect with Flexi-track and just unmodified LEGO parts like this:

Other pictures in the folder explain how to make the base.

The cambering parts and ballast are attached to the track.

The slope and track curvature are created with orthogonal composite tiles and brick walls in the baseplate.

So far I have 72ft and 104ft curves, which replace curves with 1 and 2 straights between each standard curve respectively, but any radius is possible.

Mark

Thank you for your links.

It is really a very clever technique (unfortunately, it requires a lot of parts ) which could be also applied to straight 9V rails slightly disoriented, isn't it ?

[LEGO Guy Bri]

To give the essential info, these are self-made tracks by Denis H.

He uses a resine to build a base (some old broken briks are included into it to reduce the volume of the needed resine)

And finally he gets the final section of the curves :

So for mounting the curve, he has just to put these long sections together to recover the curvature and the angle immediately including the straigth-curved transition section.

If you want to go fast but not for a world speed record, you can achieve a similar effect with Flexi-track and just unmodified LEGO parts like this:

[snip]

Thanks DanSto and Mark Bellis for the insight. Running 9V, flex tracks may not work. However, I have seen a guy on Brickshelf use a type of copper tape, used for stain glass window making, applied to RC track, allegedly making them 9V compatible. Something I will definitely try with my RC stuff. I am not a fan of all the noise flex-tracks make, but maybe that tape will quiet them a bit.

I was afraid there was a bit more work behind those long curves. I haven't tried my hand with resins before. At first I thought it might have been wood or polystyrene. I reckon I will have a bit of trial and error to find what works best for me, as well as, a brush up on French. Thanks guys

[DanSto]

Train prototypes

In order to test new powering technic, I use prototypes which are small vehicles which do not necessarily look as trains.

At Fana'briques 2010, I build a 3 vehicles prototype based on a central car having an empty motor taking the current from the rails and two 9V RC motors equiped with large diameter wheels:

This prototype reached a high speed of 28,5 km/h and was the fastest of all during this exhibition.

The main problem was the breaking and each time it runs at high speed, it finished crashed into the loop at the end of the main straight line.

The next model has been build to get more power for the acceleration but also more breaking power : this is why, I used pairs of 9V RC boggies coupled directly and having each a single wheeled axle.

The idea was to increase the power with one motor per pair of wheels instead of one motor for 2 pairs of wheels.

The new prototypes has 3 articuled cars were the central car is reduced to a single empty 9V boggy taking the current for the two paired boggies.

Note that such a "train" has a low center of gravity which increases its stability and the speed into the curves.

It can be seen on this video with the other prototypes at Fana'briaues 2012

During Fana'briques 2012, it reached the high speed of 29,3 km/h and was the fastest during this show.

Up to now, the fastest prototype by Jerome T. reached 29,8 km/h and no train run faster than 30 km/h.

But, I think that next time (september 2013), the 30 km/h barrier will be overcome.

[DanSto]

Up to new "world records"

The highest speed performances have been established during the Saint Rambert modelism exhibition in 2009 were the voltage limit was set to 60 V instead of 30 V :

- official high speed train : a 9V motorized ICE 7897 with 5 vehicles and 4 motor boggies conducted by Pierre L. reaching 25,59 km/h

- prototype "train" : Turbo Space train with two 9V motors by Jerome T. reaching 29,81 km/h

Now, we are aiming to overcome these records with the 30 V limit by improving the technic of the trains because there is too much risk to burn the motors at higher voltage.

Edited September 28, 2012 by DanSto

[CarrollFilms]

Awesome layout. That bridge looks amazing.

And those crashes, every one of them was more and more exciting to watch

[DanSto]

After this long break, I give you some news.

After Fana'briques 2012, the LGV has been installed in 2013 and 2014 without my participation. The main improvement concerns the power supply which allows now to reach 60 V with a fine control. The other improvement is a 40 cm higher final loop connected by a bridge to the lower tracks; the 40 cm denivellation helping to break the trains.

During Briqu'Expo 2013, taking advantage of the new power supply, the 4511 official set train of Denis H. reached the speed of 25.07 km/h being the first official 5 cars train running at a real speed larger than 25 km/h since the runs of 2009 in Saint Rambert where the best run reached 25.59 km/h. There are no videos of these runs but there is this one displaying a long Horizon Express running on the new LGV.

Next year, during Rail'expo 2014, the same train reached 24.98 km/h showing that the 25 km/h speed can be now regularly reached but seems to be a limit if you do not want to burn the LEGO motors. Again, a video with the Horizon Express on the LGV 

In 2015, during Fana'briques 2015, my AGV Italo 5 cars train MOC was particularly efficient reaching 27.47 km/h with an applied voltage of 44 V after having overcome 4 times the old record of 25.59 km/h during the weekend. This shows that MOCs are definitively more efficient than official sets. I hope that some video of these runs will become available soon. It was also the first time my new train, a white AGV, could run on the LGV but it needs some braking improvement as you can see into this video (from 25 seconds)

 

The most recent installation of the LGV was last september during Briqu'Expo Rhone-Alpes 2017 in Lyon and, after some secret improvements, my AGV Italo reached a high speed of 30.67 km/h, being he first train ovecoming officialy the 30 km/h. No video up to now but, again, my white AGV had some braking problems 

Definitively, I have to improve this train 

 

 

 

Edited October 4, 2017 by DanSto

[zephyr1934]

Watching those trains hit such high speeds is amazing to watch. The crashes as spectacular as they are, still pale in comparison to simply seeing the trains glide in to the banked curves. Though In that last video it looks like half of your model managed to launch over the safety barriers. Amazing stuff

[ColletArrow]

13 hours ago, DanSto said:

my white AGV had some breaking problems

I can't tell if you actually meant breaking or braking... either way, those are some impressive videos. They would be awesome enough without the crashes as Zephyr said, the doubled-up TGV looks especially good as it sweeps around the curves. 

[DanSto]

28 minutes ago, ColletArrow said:

I can't tell if you actually meant breaking or braking... either way, those are some impressive videos. They would be awesome enough without the crashes as Zephyr said, the doubled-up TGV looks especially good as it sweeps around the curves. 

You are right : I meant braking and I corrected it. Many thanks. The trains breaks or explode into parts because it does not brake enough 

[DanSto]

9 hours ago, zephyr1934 said:

Watching those trains hit such high speeds is amazing to watch. The crashes as spectacular as they are, still pale in comparison to simply seeing the trains glide in to the banked curves. Though In that last video it looks like half of your model managed to launch over the safety barriers. Amazing stuff

At such speeds, crashes occur often and these videos are essential because we need clearly to improve (i) the security of the visitors by using higher plexiglas protection and (ii) the braking ability of our trains.

 

As said, I hope that videos of these trains running of the LGV will be available soon and I will post them. 

Some recent videos by Denis H. :

Fana'briques 2015 :

Briqu'Expo Rhone-Alpes 2017 :

 

[LegoBrick1]

On 8/30/2012 at 9:38 AM, DanSto said:

I agree with you and it works very nicely.

I have already used this in a prototype train with the aim to use the large wheels and to gain speed in such a way :

(very frenchy )

The middle white car take the current for the two others cars build on RC motors with large wheels. This "train" reached 29 km/h. The breaking at the end of the straight line is its main problem.

More recently, I have compared the PFS and the RC motors on the same prototype : the PFS motor is clearly more powerful and accelerates much better than the RC but it did not reached the same maximum speed as the RC.

This could indicate that the PFS motor has a more efficient protection and is more limited at high voltage.

Maybe this is true at 9V but we don't know what really happens at higher voltage. My feeling is that the 9V PFS motors are more powerful but more protected than the other 9V motors.

This is why, I will try to use them with a multiplication of the rotation speed to take avantage of the power without having to increase more the voltage.

I don't know because I only put a finger on the bottom of some motors : they were warm but not really hot.

However, I do not really see the relation between track conductivity and the position of the motors into the train.

About the RC Motors also, I read somewhere that the RC Motor is generally a very weak motor, since LEGO only ever wanted to use the RC Trains as a transition between 9V and PFS, since they didn't want to keep making 9V but PFS wasn't completely done with development yet, so they just sort of saved money on the motors.

I own both of the RC sets, and Honestly prefer the remotes to the PFS remotes, but generally find the PFS motors to let my train run longer. I sadly do not own any 9V stuff, but really want to convert my lego Trains all to 9V in the Near Future

[JopieK]

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