Policy on discontinuation

[LEGO Guy Bri]

Well I'm having a, pardon the lame idiom, dickens of a time, trying to find exactly which thread I'm looking for about set discontinuation... I think this will do.

Before I state my question, here is a brief intro for those who don't know. I collect City and City-like sets, exclusively, so obviously I follow sets that interest me. I have a strong interest in the mining theme (I used to work at a coal yard) as well as the most recent Winter Village set with the snow plow. I bought the smaller mining sets I wanted last year, saving the Mine Site as the last to get. I noticed recently, some of those sets have since sold out (i.e. 4202 Mining Truck, also @ LEGO S@H) It seems, 4204 The Mine, may also soon on it's way out. This entire line was released this year, but is looking, from what I can tell, as a very short run... Same goes for 10229 Winter Village Cottage. However, I am not sure about the popularity of the mining sets

Here is my question: Are these really on there way out, or are they going to do what the Minecraft set did? Becoming listed as "sold out", jack up in price, then return to "in stock" within a month or so. I mean that Minecraft set almost quadrupled in price... Is this because of the holiday? I know this is a VERY big time of year for LEGO. I just don't want to go out and pay extra (if it's $20-30 over RRP) just to find out, LEGO is just rebuilding it's stock. However, I am not sure of the popularity of mining line as opposed to the Winter Village. That being the reason of their possible early termination. I'm more concerned over the 10229 WV Cottage because of how expensive those sets get when discontinued. But it was only released months ago. I appreciate any advice

[Faefrost]

Here is my question: Are these really on there way out, or are they going to do what the Minecraft set did? Becoming listed as "sold out", jack up in price, then return to "in stock" within a month or so. I mean that Minecraft set almost quadrupled in price... Is this because of the holiday? I know this is a VERY big time of year for LEGO. I just don't want to go out and pay extra (if it's $20-30 over RRP) just to find out, LEGO is just rebuilding it's stock. However, I am not sure of the popularity of mining line as opposed to the Winter Village. That being the reason of their possible early termination. I'm more concerned over the 10229 WV Cottage because of how expensive those sets get when discontinued. But it was only released months ago. I appreciate any advice

Don't view City or Winter Village sets in the same model as Minecraft. Minecraft was a CuuSoo set. Those are normally more limited runs. The fact that they went back and did a second factory run of them was highly unusual.

Lego does now have a "retiring soon" page on S@H, which will give you a warning on some but not all discontinuation s. I would assume that most of the sold out tags you are seeing we're because of heavy Christmas demand. The Winter Village Cottage will almost definitely be re popped. They are probably just waiting on more to arrive at the warehouses. The mining ones will depend more on sales and demand. Is it worth going back and making another run of a set hey sold out of? For most hey probably will. But some may quietly not be re supplied, if production time cannot be found before their expected replacements take over. One good tip off at S@H is whether there is an expected date near the sold out.

[Crownie]

I always viewed the City Mining theme as a "one-and-done", much like the Forest Police. I expect it to last about a year from its release date; it should be on it's way out now. The Winter Village Cottage is new for 2012, and should re-appear next holiday season as well as the one after. (If LEGO follows their current pattern.)

[Ricecracker]

Forest sets (Police, Fire, Mining), are, for the most part, discontinued.

[LEGO Guy Bri]

Thanks for the quick replies Faefrost, Crownie, and Ricecracker

Lego does now have a "retiring soon" page on S@H... I would assume that most of the sold out tags you are seeing we're because of heavy Christmas demand. The Winter Village Cottage will almost definitely be re popped. They are probably just waiting on more to arrive at the warehouses.

Thats what I figured, regarding 10229. The Winter Village line seems to popular for such a short run. Going back many, many years ago, when I was a kid and saw or heard "sold out" it meant the set was gone for good. So that's what came to mind. I've seen the "retiring soon page; very helpful, and did not see it as one

The mining ones will depend more on sales and demand. Is it worth going back and making another run of a set hey sold out of?

Forest sets (Police, Fire, Mining), are, for the most part, discontinued.

I guess I'll have to pick one up sometime soon. S@H has the back ordered until the 20th. I reckon I have some time and I'm sure eBay or BL won't have ridiculous prices, should I miss it. I wasn't really sure of the life span of those spin-off lines. I came back from my dark age, right as the Farm line (assuming City spin-off) ended, and never paid attention to how long it was available.

The Winter Village Cottage is new for 2012, and should re-appear next holiday season as well as the one after. (If LEGO follows their current pattern.)

When you say current pattern, you are referring to them pulling the Winter Village sets until fall? That would be a new one on me, but I could see why. I just bought my first one this year, also never paid attention to their run

[AndyC]

When you say current pattern, you are referring to them pulling the Winter Village sets until fall? That would be a new one on me, but I could see why. I just bought my first one this year, also never paid attention to their run

Yeah, the winter village sets in the past have tended to disappear over the summer and make a resurgence in the run up to xmas, for fairly obvious reasons.

[Blondie-Wan]

It appears that what they're doing with the Winter Village line is introducing a new set each year in time for the holidays, producing just enough to keep it available throughout the season (or a healthy chunk of it, anyway), letting it sell out and then doing another run the next year, and then one more time the year after that, so that each WV set is available during the holiday seasons of three consecutive years. The first one was the Winter Toy Shop, introduced in 2009 and brought back for 2010 and 2011; 2012 is the first year it wasn't brought back. 2010 brought the Winter Village Bakery, alongside the reissued Toy Shop, and they were available together for a short while before selling out. 2011 brought reissues of both - this was the third time the Toy Shop was available, and the second time for the Bakery - alongside the brand-new Winter Village Post Office.

Last year was the first year the Toy Shop wasn't reissued. The Bakery and Post Office both were, alongside the latest addition, the Winter Village Cottage. I believe 2012 will have been the last year for the Bakery, this year will be the last for the Post Office, and so on, while the Cottage should be available again this year and next (I certainly hope so, since I wasn't able to get the Cottage in time last year).

_____________________

The City Mining sets, being part of a "main" line rather than the seasonal Winter Village one, will probably be gone for good once they're gone.

[PMJ]

I have wondered this since I was a kid. Their sets seem to be discontinued so often. An original theme will disappear in a maximum of three years, let alone the sets themselves from different waves. A similar European company of my childhood kept some of their toys around for around a decade. It provided a great opportunity to collect them. It is especially difficult for someone trying to make ends meet, because I feel the constant change in the product lineup is just TLG looking at customers as dollar signs, not people.

Anyone know why this is?

[strangely]

For the same reason all toys are discontinued at some point. Lego wants to make new sets so they have to stop making the old ones at some point. They have a limited amount of machines and they can't keep on expanding the factory just to please people who can't buy sets right away. If they stopped making new sets just to keep churning out old ones than they'd go out of business. Like all companies that sell things they have to keep moving forward to keep people buying.

Edited February 9, 2013 by strangely

[Paul B Technic]

I guess that the other side of it is that retailers only have so much shelf space so if they keep older sets for sale they don't have the room for newer sets.

[Hey Joe]

There are lots of business reasons, most of which would just be speculation on my part, as to why Lego discontinues sets and I really don't feel like typing so much at the moment. Most of it has been covered in other threads on this site in addition to what's been posted here.

You have raised an interesting point re; Playmobil.

Perhaps it's easier to look at it from a Playmobil perspective and since I'm not familiar with that company at all maybe you could enlighten me? What exactly is the toy, it doesn't appear to be building blocks (I'm living in China and Playmobil isn't common here). How many themes do they have and do they all continue to be sold for many years? How are they able to be profitable doing that?

Thanks, Joe

Edited February 10, 2013 by bjtpro

[BrickG]

They seem to aim to discontinue them right when I want to buy them. I'm pretty sure Lego is spying on me in order to discontinue the sets at the worst possible moment, at which point they skyrocket in price most of the time.

[Faefrost]

Here's the major difference between Lego and Playmobile, and why Playmobile will keep specific sets available for years whereas Lego it may vary.

Playmobile makes playset toys. While you snap some stuff together they are essentially simply playsets. Very very good playsets mind you. Probably the best in the world for shear variety and play value. The pieces of a given set are mainly unique to that set and designed for it. Lego is a construction toy set. (and obviously the best in the world at what they do.) The actual elements of a given set are mainly generic parts assembled according to an included design. With me so far? Basically Playmobile makes cars and castles, Lego makes bricks. But in both cases there are high costs associated with the molds and tooling involved so the companies need to maximize their molds.

For Playmobile it is by maximizing the lifespan of the individual sets, as each group of molds mostly makes one set., and hence the shear number of a given set sold. Remember The Molds for the Ambulance set make the Ambulance parts and not too much else, so the more they make the Ambulance, the greater the profit from the investment of making those molds.

Whereas Lego makes universal elements. Bricks. Their molds get maximized by using the individual pieces in the maximum number of sets. Their main product isn't simply the plastic parts, but the construction designs for them. They maximize their investment by keeping a steady rotation of new products on the shelf and using their molds to populate a greater number of different sets.

[PMJ]

There are lots of business reasons, most of which would just be speculation on my part, as to why Lego discontinues sets and I really don't feel like typing so much at the moment. Most of it has been covered in other threads on this site.

You have raised an interesting point re: Playmobil.

Perhaps it's easier to look at it from a Playmobil perspective and since I'm not familiar with that company at all maybe you could enlighten me? What exactly is the toy, it doesn't appear to be building blocks (I'm living in China and Playmobil isn't common here). How many themes do they have and do they all continue to be sold for many years? How are they able to be profitable doing that?

Thanks, Joe

They make playsets, as already mentioned. Very high quality ones too. They often require assembly, but not like Lego, they aren't really meant to be taken apart.

[Hey Joe]

Ok thanks Faefrost.

So it looks like Faefrost has answered your question; Lego and Playmobil have different business models basically, right?

The discontinuation does kinda suck (maybe not for the speculators) but if you were a Lego bean counter it would make perfect sense.

Maybe I'm jaded but I don't expect companies to look at me for anything but my money. Lego seems to be better than average in that regard to me.

It's always possible to assemble the bricks to build the models without buying the set. It's time consuming and maybe more expensive but fun in its own way, right?

Thanks, Joe

[bpbill]

Playmobil is also marketed at a specific age range ie pre-teen children, therefore they probably profit from seeing their target audience continuously being refreshed and coming new to old models and sets.

[TheAshTree]

I guess it is always good for LEGO to discontinue sets and re-release a better version next time. I just came out from my dark ages and through some research I realised I had missed out on a ton of sets and themes I would really want to own. For example, I really liked Castle and Cowboys when I was young. If I had gotten the older sets on eBay now it would cost me a bomb. But I just read somewhere that Lone Ranger aka Western and Castle theme is coming back? I am totally pumped up for that. And those re-releases would save me a lot of hard earned money.

[Fugazi]

Merged with a similar topic from a few months ago.

[Purpearljellyblob]

The policy on discontinuation does have its undesirable effects. Not every kid in the world has his/her piggy bank armed with cash to purchase their favourite LEGO set, and if they finally manage to save up for the LEGO set they really wanted, it might be well discontinued. I guess parents can buy the LEGO sets first and hide them till their kids manage to save enough.

[Hrw-Amen]

Annoyingly I am also looking for the large mine set, having bought all the little ones it was time to save for the large set and yet now it has disappeared. The mining sets sold out over Christmas where I was and have not been restocked. I hope that they get some more in, but it seems I may have missed it. This normally happens, I find I get the little sets save for the big one and by the time I can afford it they are no longer in the shops, it is really frustrating.

[Navy Trooper Fenson]

will each set be available for a certain time before being discontinued?

From my observation it looks like:

1,5 years for regular sets (which would include everything of LOTR that´s out right now)

3 years for S@H exclusives (everything with numbers like 10225 / 1XXXX)

There are several exceptions to this rule. Some retailer exclusive sets like Cad Banes speeder can last only one year and generally sets released in summer can sell out after only one year. There are some S@H exclusives that last longer than their 3 years because of popular demand (playset Death Star was released in 2008 and still available, Star destroyer lasted 6 or 7 years).

So with the LOTR line you should get the first wave for christmas.