The Forest II: Day One

[badboytje88]

I'm really not sure of this, call it a gut feeling, but standing up for someone on day one, just because they threw a potato message at you is really suspicious to me.

So therefor I Vote: Casey Cat.

[Professor Flitwick]

So therefor I Vote: Casey Cat.

Try again, Ralphy, you voted incorrectly. Maybe you weren't paying full attention to the rules earlier because you were lusting after my flesh!

[CorneliusMurdock]

However, I do see what you're doing, and now, let me tell you why it won't work. You may - actually, no, you will - get the lurkers to speak up with your votes. But guess what you'll get? You won't get insight as to who's scum or not from them. No ma'am. You'll get "Why are you voting me? What the fuck is up with that?" and then they won't say another word for the rest of the day.

I'm lynching lurkers with my one vote? Hardly.

Even if the ones I call out for inactivity only speak one more time a day, they'll be saying something. And that's one more statement for us to analyze later. You can do as you like, just don't think I'm going to follow your lead. You of all people may not realize this but I'm not a sheep. I can think for myself and I'm my own woman. I've built a grocery empire up from a simple corner store. This bitch has brains.

[badboytje88]

I Vote: Casey Cat (Scouty)

How stoopid of me to get the format wrong...

[Rick]

I think saying what my intentions were does matter if it's to clear up a misconception. I wanted this to be over because I thought it was pretty stupid to start off with. Though, now at the tail end, I can see how everybody's reactions is providing a wealth of insight.

... and, unfortunately for you, your reaction stands out. Why did you want this 'stupid' debate to be over? All of your reactions seemed to suggest we move on and find someone else to focus on.

I think Petey contacted me in the first place because I was being level headed before. He saw I wasn't pressuring him, and so came to me for advice. I helped because that's the sort of person I am. Irregardless of his affiliation, there's hardly anything for me to go on for me turn down somebody asking for help. Nothing else was exchanged, no information. I advised him to keep calm, talk it out with you guys, and we ended the discussion there. That's the truth and I'm sure Petey can verify that.

How could Petey possible convince you to 'help' him? Everyone here, unfortunately, can only fend for themselves, especially on day 1, when the only thing we can be sure of is that we can't trust anyone.

Either way, it was stupid of me to remotely defend anybody on Day 1, since everybody is on edge with nothing to really turn to. Nobody should have a kind heart in these games...of life when we're all threatened with the possibility of death. I've seem to have forgotten that.

... as you seem to have realised. You can't take back your actions though.

If you has a baseless accusation hurled at you and no team to trust, what exactly would you do? Cowering in a corner is useless, the biggest risk for me is that either of them could be a cultist anyway.

What did you think there was to gain by contacting them privately? Were you trying to prevent them from voting for you or just asking for advice? If it's the former, how on earth would you get them to 'trust' you (on day 1) without making a claim about your role in this whole ordeal? If it's the latter, what kind of advice would you expect ?

Now this is a little more like it. Casey has been giving the subtle push to Petey while still agreeing with everyone else, as you said, which is definitely a scum tactic.

Subtle push? Casey herself seems to think she was defending Petey.

I'd actually argue that it's better to spread us a little thin with the votes early on when we have little to go on.

More people being voted for => more reactions => more information.

And where's your reaction to the events?

This is the first day. None of us have a lot to say but most are managing to do so anyway. Please be a part of this town and help us catch the scum before they kill us all.

Unvote: Bristol Bunny (Bob)

Vote: Wallace Walrus (Masked Builder)

Say something Wallace. Let us know you're still around. Get up and do jumping jacks, anything.

You're happy with Bristol's contribution? Please tell me you're just doing this to get everybody to speak up. You have a long list to go through though.

And don't try to make it out as a heroic act you're doing - while the intention may very well be good, your opinion is more valuable in the main bandwagons - if we lynch one of them, we get much more information than just lynching a lurker.

There are a lot of animals that haven't really spoken up yet. Some seem to contribute, but don't offer much of an opinion, whereas others only pop in a couple of times a day to say they haven't made up their minds yet. But I agree with the mad cow that we will learn most from lynching one of the animals involved in the 'Petey situation' because quite a few animals have commented on that so far. So, with the sun almost setting in the eastern part of the village (it's huuuge compared to Spring Haven ), I think that's what we should be focusing on.

Personally I consider Casey Cat's behaviour to be most suspicious, because - as I indicated earlier - she clearly seemed to want to steer attention away from Petey. But I also don't understand Petey's overly defensive reaction and contacting people privately before a single vote had been cast. Pennie is acting weird, although not much weirder than back in Spring Haven, but I honestly can't see a member of the Cultists draw attention to themselves by insisting on 'leading the lynch' when it's likely there are Villagers with investigative abilities at night.

If we decide to lynch either Casey or Petey and they turn out to be a Cultist, it becomes more likely the other is a Cultist too (especially in the case of Casey). If Casey turns out to be a Villager, that won't tell us much about Petey's allegiance though. However, when Petey turns out to be a Villager, that makes it likely Casey is a Villager too, because a Cultist would be happy with all the attention on a Villager like Petey (unless Casey's trying really hard to appear 'Village' of course). So, ironically, while I think Casey has been acting scummier than Petey, and wouldn't mind seeing her lynched, I think we'll learn slightly more from lynching Petey.

[Zepher]

If we decide to lynch either Casey or Petey and they turn out to be a Cultist, it becomes more likely the other is a Cultist too (especially in the case of Casey). If Casey turns out to be a Villager, that won't tell us much about Petey's allegiance though. However, when Petey turns out to be a Villager, that makes it likely Casey is a Villager too, because a Cultist would be happy with all the attention on a Villager like Petey (unless Casey's trying really hard to appear 'Village' of course). So, ironically, while I think Casey has been acting scummier than Petey, and wouldn't mind seeing her lynched, I think we'll learn slightly more from lynching Petey.

This actually BAWK makes a lot of sense to me. We need to deal with the two of them, and this will allow us to get the most information out of the situation. However, I still feel strongly that they're both town, so I won't change my vote, as it is currently doing no harm resting on Bristol. I can't really see the cultists trying to BAWK draw this much attention to themselves on the first day. On top of that, neither of them is panicking a lot, which is another big cultist tell. If anything they got calmer after accused.

[Hinckley]

vote tally

Bristol Bunny (Bob): 1 votes (Zepher)

Petey Panda (darkdragon): 1 vote (Eskallon)

Casey Cat (Scouty): 4 votes (Scubacarrot, Tamamono, Professor Flitwick, badboytje88)

Pennie Pig (Eskallon): 4 votes (Dannylonglegs, JimButcher, Sandy, Cecilie)

Wallace Walrus (Masked Builder): 1 vote (CorneliusMurdock)

[Waterbrick Down]

Takes a whiff of Pancho's tail feathers*

I agree with you, there's not been a whole lot that jumps out to me as scummy, of course some people I find more suspicious than others but it's hard for me to put it all the pieces together to see which one is more likely scum. My initial suspicion against Pennie was her quickly jumping on Petey after Gordon's initial suspicion that combined with the fact that he seemed to be making a big deal about he being the one to lead the charge against her. Seamus is right in that for a scum, she would be in an ideal position the next day as she could claim that Petey was acting wierd anyways and deserved being lynched. However her continual tunnel vision after this fact has been brought up, make me think she is town as I have often found evil people to be rather wishy washy and sway with the feelings of the crowd. Casey is basically in the same boat as I am though albeit he has been more talkative, as both of us were contacted by Petey after we demonstrated that we weren't willing to put much weight into the initial argument that he was being "too defensive". While Petey's behavior is consistant with my past dealings with him (i.e. his nervous, takes everything out proportion attitude) as Seamus has also noted, I can't help but shake the doubt that makes me wonder why Petey was so definite he was going to be lynched when no one had even placed a single vote against him yet. So where does that leave us?

Petey: Too defensive

Pennie: Tunnel vision

Casey: Wishy-washy

What do we learn from lynching any of them?

If Petey is scum, then it doesn't lead us to the next one as I see no reason why he would contact either Casey or myself since he would have scummy partners who could come out and try and draw attention away from him without resorting to PM's for help.

If Pennie is scum, then it makes those who agreed with her, specifically Gordon who is now defending her and was in on the original suspicion against Petey, possibly scum.

If Casey is scum, then it also doesn't lead us to the next scum, as again Petey had no reason to contact both Casey and I privately since they were both mafia in cahoots.

Feel free to point out where I am missing something, but this is how I see it currently.

I'm not with the crowd who is against voting and neither am I for those who are wasting their votes trying to get the quieter ones to speak. If we really want to get them to pipe up, they have to feel their in danger and 1 or even 2 votes are not going to do that, especially when there are more eligable canadites being voted upon. The day isn't done yet and we can still come to a more concrete decision, until that time, I'll hold my vote but will eventually apply it.

[Rick]

This actually BAWK makes a lot of sense to me. We need to deal with the two of them, and this will allow us to get the most information out of the situation. However, I still feel strongly that they're both town, so I won't change my vote, as it is currently doing no harm resting on Bristol. I can't really see the cultists trying to BAWK draw this much attention to themselves on the first day. On top of that, neither of them is panicking a lot, which is another big cultist tell. If anything they got calmer after accused.

Note that, in my view, we will also learn something if Petey is a Villager, namely that it's likely that Casey is also a Villager. Petey was panicking quite a bit and, considering there's only one vote against him, I can imagine he's staying calm for now...

What do we learn from lynching any of them?

If Petey is scum, then it doesn't lead us to the next one as I see no reason why he would contact either Casey or myself since he would have scummy partners who could come out and try and draw attention away from him without resorting to PM's for help.

It's not about contacting anyone. Casey clearly tried to divert attention from the argument that was developing even before she was contacted privately. And who says Casey was in fact contacted privately (or you for that matter)? Petey could have just contacted others to make Casey's claim that she was contacted more credible (well, it didn't make it more credible, but, if they're Cultists, perhaps they tried it that way).

If Pennie is scum, then it makes those who agreed with her, specifically Gordon who is now defending her and was in on the original suspicion against Petey, possibly scum.

Gordon is basically saying he's agreeing with you, and me for that matter, that it's unlikely that a Cultist would draw so much attention to themselves on the first day. He is a bit more determined though.

If Casey is scum, then it also doesn't lead us to the next scum, as again Petey had no reason to contact both Casey and I privately since they were both mafia in cahoots.

If Casey is a Cultist, she had no reason to divert attention away from Petey, unless he's a Cultist too (... unless... Casey's trying really hard to appear Village).

[Rufus]

I think it's highly unlikely that both Casey and Petey are Cultists. If they were, I'd have thought Casey would have been very keen to distance herself from Petey, probably to the extent of not commenting at all on the situation. Instead, her initial reaction was suspicion of Petey; although she quite quickly backtracked from that position.

There would be no need for Petey to contact Casey if they were both scum; granted, we have (and will likely never have, given the new rules) no evidence that such contact did occur; but then, why would Casey mention it at all? It's a connection that two scum would be keen to avoid.

For this reason alone, I think there isn't much to be gained from lynching Casey. Sure, she could be scum; Casey's subsequent actions have been a little suspicious, but her resignation to being lynched doesn't look like a Culty reaction to me - not on day one, and without any nocturnal evidence.

If, on the other hand, we lynch Petey, we have much more to gain. Several people have shown suspicion towards Petey, and would then be much more likely to be honest Villagers if Petey is a Cultist, and we can look at those animals who have defended Petey. If Petey is town, I'd be inclined to look at those animals who seemed to know this.

More than anything, accusations which result in a lot of arguing and finger-pointing away from the original accusee are, in my book, always worth following up on.

Vote: Petey Panda (darkdragon)

*chomp*

Sorry Gilda, that was an affectionate nibble.

[Sandy]

I'm not with the crowd who is against voting and neither am I for those who are wasting their votes trying to get the quieter ones to speak. If we really want to get them to pipe up, they have to feel their in danger and 1 or even 2 votes are not going to do that, especially when there are more eligable canadites being voted upon. The day isn't done yet and we can still come to a more concrete decision, until that time, I'll hold my vote but will eventually apply it.

Remember Marcellus's rules? The one with most votes at the end of the day is sacrificed. Right now the most likely candidate for that seems to be either Casey or Pennie, but anything can still happen.

Even I can be the one chosen! But who will water the tulips, then? They need an awful lot of watering... Lazlo likes to relieve himself on them, and it makes them shine bright yellow. It's true, it really does!

Oh, my Lazlo, will I ever see you and your golden shower mane again...?

[Rick]

I think it's highly unlikely that both Casey and Petey are Cultists.

Clumsy Cultists perhaps?

As outlined earlier, I too think we can learn the most from lynching Petey, and because the sun is slowly setting in this part of Winter Haven, I will also:

Vote: Petey Panda (darkdragon)

Bookie baby, don't forget to vote or there will be no hot wax for you tonight.

[Hinckley]

vote tally

Bristol Bunny (Bob): 1 votes (Zepher)

Petey Panda (darkdragon): 3 votes (Eskallon, Rufus, Rick)

Casey Cat (Scouty): 4 votes (Scubacarrot, Tamamono, Professor Flitwick, badboytje88)

Pennie Pig (Eskallon): 4 votes (Dannylonglegs, JimButcher, Sandy, Cecilie)

Wallace Walrus (Masked Builder): 1 vote (CorneliusMurdock)

[Cecilie]

All this doesn't sit well with me . The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that this whole treesome of Casey/Petey/Pennie is really just bickering between confused and paranoid Villagers, and that the real Cultists are hiding and laughing at us for getting caught up in it. I know my vote is currently on Pennie, but I really don't know who to switch it to. The sun is setting in my part of winter haven too, so I don't have much more time to make any qualified decisions... I wish the three accusees would come and actually try to fight for their lives at least, instead of just the rest of us arguing about them.

[Quarryman]

All this doesn't sit well with me . The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that this whole treesome of Casey/Petey/Pennie is really just bickering between confused and paranoid Villagers, and that the real Cultists are hiding and laughing at us for getting caught up in it. I know my vote is currently on Pennie, but I really don't know who to switch it to. The sun is setting in my part of winter haven too, so I don't have much more time to make any qualified decisions... I wish the three accusees would come and actually try to fight for their lives at least, instead of just the rest of us arguing about them.

I think you might be onto something, but not lynching anyone will not help us either.. So it's basically down to either Pennie or Casey (or doing a longish shot and going for Petey). Though, at the moment less than half of us have voted, and while the sun is setting in my part of Winter Haven as well it's not doing so for all of you (a mighty impressive trick the sun is pulling there I have to say) so this can still go any way really. But I can't stand by not doing anything, so here goes: Vote: Casey Cat (Scouty).

[Darkdragon]

I don't have much time to respond right now, but there isn't much time left in the day anyway, so I wanted to respond the best I can to the concerns I've seen coming up.

Why have I been quiet?

Well, what more was there for me to say? I had addressed all the concerns brought up, to the best of my ability, and explained myself. Are you expecting me to just respond to everything with a quote from something I said before? Repeating the same info over and over seems to needlessly water down our already insanely long discussion.

I've been sitting back, reading and watching everything. I've actually seen some really interesting responses from some of the previously quieter folks (not the silent under-the-radar folks of course). I've been making my notes and if I figure out anyone that can be trusted before I die, I'll send them the info. Right now though, I have zero trust for anyone. Which brings me to my next point...

Why would I "trust"/contact anyone?

I know we have gone over this already and it strikes me as odd that people are just overlooking responses so they can keep asking the same questions over and over. But, since you insist on bringing it up again, I'll address it. I do not trust either of those people I contacted. At the time, they seemed most reasonable/able to look at information rationally, and even though voting hadn't started I felt that my head was on the block (which in hindsight you can see I was right). I only messaged them to say that I don't want to die and feel that I can be helpful to the town. I didn't ask either of them to come in here and defend me, I didn't give them any information to try and convince them of anything (I have no information to give anyway).

Lynching Petey would give us a zillion clues to look at

Well yes, I guess so. I mean, any lynch today can provide us information to help us find the scum. I say any lynch, but that's not really true I guess. Lynching a quiet person will only provide info if they are scum, which is kinda a shot in the dark at this point. We could get lucky, but I doubt it. There are too many quiet people to choose from.

Anyway, that's not the point. The point is that yes lyncing me will give you info based on those who have been attacking me and those who have been blindly voting for me, those who seem to be defending me, and even those who have been splitting the vote. ... well crap, I guess lynching me does sound pretty solid. There's no arguing that.

The only thing I can say about lynching me is that I don't want to die...but who does? I will come up as town in the morning and Pennie will say "omg, but he was acting so strange?" and everyone will sheep around and say "yeah that sucks but now we can annalize stuff." and then, nobody will annalize and the scum will take out another of us in tomorrow's lynch. This is the cycle.

Defenses? They don't matter. People who have made up thier minds will not change votes no matter what the accused says. All an accused person can do is get as many facts out there as possible before the end and hope that the town has a brain.

So I guess all told, if I am to get lynched today it will at least give the town some info to go on. I'd rather not be lynched, of course, because there are less deadly ways to find out if I am scum. If that is my fate though, to be lynched and open up the analytic holes on the scum who've set me up/sheeped/or hidden, then so be it. I really have nothing more to say and I really don't think there is anything for me to defend at this point.

For my vote, I will get it placed in a few hours, but right now I'm undecided. There are a few people that look bad to me for different reasons. I'm not going to name them right now because then you'll just say "oh blame shifting". Like I said, once someone is accused, there is absolutely nothing they can really say without people freaking out.

[Scubacarrot]

Why the insults against the town, why do you act like giving up when you are not even being lynched, why do you not give your own views, why not give that information now?

[Pandora]

I still find Petey's behaviour odd; he actually initially responded to Ernie saying he found his behaviour "presumptive" and "possibly downright evil". It was only after Pennie pointed out that it was a joke (and I find it hard to believe Petey didn't see that) that he began to insist it was the poor taste of the joke he took exception to. The ungenerous amongst us could even entertain the idea that Petey was gently casting suspicion on Ernie and swiftly backtracked when someone actually pointed it out. Following that, Petey's reaction was noted by a good number of furries to be 'odd', 'off', 'suspicious' etc.

Gordon and Pennie seemed to latch onto the incongruity of Petey's reaction at around the same time, so I don't see one as defending the other. Those saying that Pennie has elaborately set this up so that she's in some sort of prime position tomorrow are frankly giving Pennie too much credit (sorry Pennie). The most vehement suggester is Seamus, who seems to be doggedly (sorry for the bad pun) defending Petey, which is also unusual so early in this ordeal. Similarly plenty of others seem keen to draw us away from this discussion. Casey has indeed been wishy washy, and has indeed acted oddly. Petey contacting Casey and Baxter privately also seems incredibly odd. There was no threat, so why panic? And why them? I know Petey has attempted to explain, but that explanation doesn't sit well.

I agree that I doubt Casey is scum if Petey is too. I doubt Pennie and Gordon are scum even more, but if Petey rolls up town then they both warrant looking at extremely closely tomorrow. Despite his earlier paranoia, actually, as a direct result of his earlier paranoia, Petey now finds himself at the centre of this whole debacle, and in my eyes is the best candidate for a lynch. We get good info no matter what Petey flips, which can't be said for the other candidates.

I Vote: Petey Panda (darkdragon).

[Professor Flitwick]

As I stated earlier, was torn between Casey and Petey, but only voted for the former because they were tying with for Bristol in terms of votes. As previously stated, I feel it's important to learn the most about a maximum number of people, and Petey's death will bring just that.

Unvote: Casey Cat (Scouty)

Vote: Petey Panda (darkdragon)

[Pandora]

I do not trust either of those people I contacted. At the time, they seemed most reasonable/able to look at information rationally, and even though voting hadn't started I felt that my head was on the block (which in hindsight you can see I was right). I only messaged them to say that I don't want to die and feel that I can be helpful to the town. I didn't ask either of them to come in here and defend me, I didn't give them any information to try and convince them of anything (I have no information to give anyway).

Thank you for the extremely long defence. I know I just voted for you, but that only drew you level with Casey and Pennie, so it's not like you're the clear lynch today, by any means.

Anyway, responding to the above, you contacted two people, one of whom had been pushing you and one who'd given a soundly neutral response, and told them... just that you didn't want to die? You've already told us all here, and presumably none of us want to die? None of the rest of us are "reasonable/able to look at information rationally"? And you only wanted to tell these scions of reasonableness that you didn't want to die?

*strokes goatee some more*

[Sandy]

I don't understand how some of you can already label certain people as "passive", "quiet" and "under-the-radar"? It's only the first day of this ordeal, people can't have anything much to say! And knowing that one's every word is likely to be dissected at some point (first day discussions even being used as evidence at a much later date), I don't blame anyone for not wanting to speak just for the sake of speaking.

The bottomline is that no matter who we vote for, it's going to be guesswork. Nobody has had time to gather any evidence, nobody can prove anything about their true alignment - it's just not possible. The best option we have is to hope for a clumsy werewolf to accidentally reveal themselves by tripping on their own words (like in that book, "Harriet Slutter and the megablock Werewolf"), but we all know chances of that happening are slim at best.

So let's not call this a lazy town, because the symbolical sun hasn't even risen yet. I know I'm doing my best, and I dearly hope that so are the rest of the villagers.

We can do it!

[JimBee]

As much as I hate to admit it, dickhead Gordon is right. There's really no logical reason why Pennie would want to claim the credit for instigating the argument on Petey if he was scum. Sure, there could be a third faction or some other convoluted reason for his tunnel vision, but would he really know about it on Day One? I don't think so. So I will

Unvote: Pennie Pig (Eskallon)

While Becka's point seems to make sense, no matter which way I put it Petey Panda doesn't seem scum to me at all. Her argument is solid and I really don't think she's a Cultist. That leaves Casey, who has also acted suspicious by flip flopping all over the place, and has now gone silent. By the way, Cameron, I do not think that his going quiet is a sign of innocence or guilt, and speculating about it that way is useless.

I'm not very sure about this. I don't feel very strongly that any of our candidates are Cultists, but what choice to we have? It's the only way to get answers. I have a feeling that the real Cultists are sitting back and letting the mayhem ensue, but what choice do we have? Casey seems like the best option to me, though it very well might not be the right one.

Vote: Casey Cat (Scouty)

I agree with you, there's not been a whole lot that jumps out to me as scummy, of course some people I find more suspicious than others but it's hard for me to put it all the pieces together to see which one is more likely scum. My initial suspicion against Pennie was her quickly jumping on Petey after Gordon's initial suspicion that combined with the fact that he seemed to be making a big deal about he being the one to lead the charge against her. Seamus is right in that for a scum, she would be in an ideal position the next day as she could claim that Petey was acting wierd anyways and deserved being lynched. However her continual tunnel vision after this fact has been brought up, make me think she is town as I have often found evil people to be rather wishy washy and sway with the feelings of the crowd. Casey is basically in the same boat as I am though albeit he has been more talkative, as both of us were contacted by Petey after we demonstrated that we weren't willing to put much weight into the initial argument that he was being "too defensive". While Petey's behavior is consistant with my past dealings with him (i.e. his nervous, takes everything out proportion attitude) as Seamus has also noted, I can't help but shake the doubt that makes me wonder why Petey was so definite he was going to be lynched when no one had even placed a single vote against him yet.

You're giving me a headache because your talking but you're not really saying anything. Please try to be a little more clear in what you're trying to get across, I'm having hard time following. Specifically, use commas and refer to people by name when there are three or more that you're talking about at a time. Don't use "him" or "her". You're confusing the hell out of me.

[Darkdragon]

Why the insults against the town, why do you act like giving up when you are not even being lynched, why do you not give your own views, why not give that information now?

I didn't insult the town. I only said I hope if I die that they have a brain and actually use the info instead of letting the scum walk all over them and steer a string of townie lynches. I do find it interesting that you read my who message and chose that as your comment.

Like I says in the message you replied to, I am not done yet with my analysis and don't yet fel comfortable bringing up my accusations. Why do you keep asking questions about things I've already covered. I think you know how frustrated that makes me and you are just trying to anger me.

Gibson - I will get back to you later, but I know in the end you are just jealous of my super cute panda body.

[Scubacarrot]

Right. So I will go to bed soon, handsome gorilla's like me need their beauty sleep.

The Panda has been consistantly unhelpful, and I think animals are right, we learn quite a bit from lynching him... I will therefore switch my vote, as I won't have another chance.

Unvote: Casey Cat (Scouty)

Vote: Petey Panda (darkdragon)

[Bob]

Vote: Petey Panda (darkdragon)

I'm not very comfortable with this, but it would teach us a great deal about a few of the other people that are voting.