Excalibur 2.0: Conclusion

[Dragonator]

Shadows and Dragonator: I know you are both much more experienced than I and my apologies if I got on your nerves which I know as a townie can be extremely frustrating, but I hope to play with you both again in a more active setting as my only suspicions against you were your inactivity, other-wise I wouldn't have pushed fhomess so hard to vig-kill you.

A word of advice, we very rarely post more than we need to. Call us old fashioned, but unnecessary chatter isn't really our thing.

No need to apologise though, you played a good game.

That said, if you're going to try a "sting" (god I hate that word) on the last day, try to make it a little less obvious!!! I think I left a dent in my desk from all the head- bashing.

[Waterbrick Down]

Thanky! I hope I didn't come off as discrediting your efforts before--you really pulled through for the town (and got on my case way earlier than I'd have liked, heh). That was a wicked last two days for you, I must say.

You're telling me, Masked kept on coming back with town results, fhomess keeps on shooting people I've already convinced myself are town (CJP, Scouts, Rufus to some degree), and nobody in the day threads is really active enough for me to pull something together, I should have looked more closely at peoples posts and approached them from the perspective if they were scum. I fully agree with you about Hinckley's investigation, it was the turning point and allowed me to start "confirming" people who had interacted with Scuba in a townie-telling way, without that lynch we would have been sunk.

That said, if you're going to try a "sting" (god I hate that word) on the last day, try to make it a little less obvious!!! I think I left a dent in my desk from all the head- bashing.

That was the point actually, we knew a true-townie would be so fed up with another sting and automatically start accusing Inky of lying instead of trying to come up with a far-fetched role-claim to cover themselves. So in a way I guess it worked.

[Shadows]

A word of advice, we very rarely post more than we need to. Call us old fashioned, but unnecessary chatter isn't really our thing.

That isn't completely true, we used to ramble on and on, but then mafia took a weird turn against roleplay and most of our chatter would now be viewed as suspicious. Plus we're lazy.

Seriously though, roleplay is a key element of this game, it's the thing that makes it fun and interesting and adds a little extra challenge. Just posting as yourself is boring as hell, and it really isn't what's intended. You're given a role to play, play it, be it, live it!

fhomess keeps on shooting people I've already convinced myself are town (CJP, Scouts, Rufus to some degree)

I take full credit for York. As I explained on the deadboard, I didn't want to risk that she was actually some form of neutral usurper and preferred to see her killed before simply lynching swils. The added benefit was that in some cases, when a killer meets a killer, they fight it out, and the vig could have lost (Baritones 2, for example, which this game mirrored in some ways). At that point, there is no telling where the game might have gone.

Oh, and I really wanted York dead.

[swils]

That isn't completely true, we used to ramble on and on, but then mafia took a weird turn against roleplay and most of our chatter would now be viewed as suspicious. Plus we're lazy.

Seriously though, roleplay is a key element of this game, it's the thing that makes it fun and interesting and adds a little extra challenge. Just posting as yourself is boring as hell, and it really isn't what's intended. You're given a role to play, play it, be it, live it!

Odd, that conflicts quite directly with the general consensus and advice/comments I got during/after Yakuza Mafia.

Oh, and I really wanted York dead.

Didn't we all?

Something that made me laugh, from the dead board:

Brickdoctor said… (31 Jul 12, looking at version 1)

It’s funny how AwesomeStar claims to have been formulating theories and being close to presenting them, and then he criticizes swils for not presenting theories and instead criticizing him (AwesomeStar) for not presenting theories when he (AwesomeStar) isn’t presenting his own theories.

And then, from our own board, about the same thing:

swils said… (31 Jul 12, looking at version 11)

Feel free to snap back at me in the day thread, AS. I’m trying to create a bit of distance between us, just in case, heh. You could even suggest that I should put forth my own theories before criticizing you for your lack thereof. It would give me an excuse/incentive to write something up this evening (something Im planning on doing anyway)

[Dragonator]

That isn't completely true, we used to ramble on and on, but then mafia took a weird turn against roleplay and most of our chatter would now be viewed as suspicious. Plus we're lazy.

That and there has been a severe lack of chandeliers recently.

Seriously though, roleplay is a key element of this game, it's the thing that makes it fun and interesting and adds a little extra challenge. Just posting as yourself is boring as hell, and it really isn't what's intended. You're given a role to play, play it, be it, live it!

[Inconspicuous]

I had an enjoyable experience, but I forgot how fast these games moved! I had trouble keeping up with posts at first, and by the time I finally caught on, there wasn't very much to discuss. Being a Vanilla Townie is hard, and I can't say I was very useful this game. I would have totally understood if I was mod-killed for being useless! However, I didn't think it was fair if I was killed solely based off of chance at the last minute, so thank you Bob for changing your mind. That sting at the end was WBD's idea and it didn't help us all that much, but still helped solidify our suspicions. I apologize for contributing to the sting-overload! I was lucky that I was nearly voted out because it meant I was too suspicious to get scum-killed but cleared enough to be kept around.

I wasn't impressed with my own performance, so I'm going to take a break from Mafia. Hopefully there will be a time in my life when I'm able to sit in front of my computer, refreshing all day and posting like crazy!

Thanks for hosting, Bob.

[fhomess]

I have a lot of thoughts about this game, so here are a few of them. The first is that I'm fairly new to mafia, and this was my first town PR, so hopefully I learned a lot from all the mistakes I made. That said, I think there was also some misunderstanding of me that I'll get to later.

fhomess, I don't know whether I should clock you or hug you, I hate having no one to talk to and bounce ideas off of during a game and as soon as Scuba bussed you on day 4, I pretty much took you into my full confidence without looking back. I can see from your perspective it must have been wierd for some player to come completely out of the blue and start dumping information on you, so sorry about that. You took it in stride though and I thank you for not vig killing me at any point in the game, which considering how you were shooting us in the foot by trying to find a non-existant mole I was pretty lucky. Good game.

Hah! I'm pretty sure you're the only townie who feels that I played a good game, and I include myself in that. At best I think one can say that I tried hard. I had some suspicions of you, but I never came close to vig-killing you as every time I thought about it I felt that I shouldn't target someone who had put so much effort into trying to look townie until late in the game when it wasn't clear anymore who else to go for. By then you had cleared yourself with Foog and AS.

Scuba - Sadly, you were the only scum I ever really had strong suspicions of before you were lynched or killed. The whole CMP thing in private had me come close to submitting your name, but I didn't want to kill a town role cop without seeing how that turned out.

Shadows - I nearly killed you the night you claimed to me because of so many obnoxious things you said in private to me. I went so far as to submit your name, then sleep on it, and decide I just couldn't risk killing you. The whole protector with a defense mechanism struck me as a bit ridiculous and I asked you repeatedly to elaborate with no response from you to that request (not even a "no"). The reason I stayed suspicious and didn't kill Foog for so long was that you persisted in those things. You also refused to present your case against Foog publicly, which made me think you were trying to get me to do the dirty work for you. You eventually explained this in private, and I'll concede that you were right, but your methods just didn't endear trust with me. Perhaps with someone else, they would have.

Scouty - You really did claim to me that you didn't know dd was the target. I double checked my PM's after the decision was reached with Tammo to be sure I wasn't misreading something:

Well, depends on if you count you in that mix. By my understanding the people who knew of my targeting include the known town PR's, you, and WBD.

You can count me in the mix, but you'd be wrong ;). Good chance Wbd is the leak.

I don't know how else you expected me to interpret that. Ultimately, it appears there wasn't a leak, but given Scuba's success (and Tammo in my previous game Jedi Temple), you can see why I was particularly concerned that there was. I stayed suspicious of MaskedBuilder because the scum team never tried to kill him and his role claim was conveniently impossible to really verify with the results he was getting.

Rufus - You were essentially a coin flip kill between you, Foog, and Inky at the time. This decision was not helped by the fact that I was on vacation Aug4-Aug12 and was unable to bring my game notes with me. That vacation impacted my online time to post as well. Had I had more time to think it through, I should've killed Foog as it would have been a way to clear a couple of people who had PM'd me if he turned up scum.

Besides Dannylonglegs on Night 1, Scouty and Rufus were the only targets of mine that were essentially made on my own. Given that I never had particularly strong suspicions of most of the scum team,

As for the misunderstandings... I think a lot of people misunderstood some of my accusations and questions about other players as more strongly felt than they were. Yes, that was true of some of them, but at other times I would post or PM something more to get a feel for how others were thinking and see if I couldn't discern something interesting about it. The day 7 vote for Inky that nearly led to his lynch was one of those, and also intended as a conversation kickstarter. I didn't have a strong opinion on whether or not Inky went, but the way the voting went taught me some things. Especially after Foog and AS were revealed as scum.

Finally, some suggestions regarding Bob's performance as a host:

I understand that you care deeply about your game being played well by the players and that you want the game to have an even shot of each team winning. Set that up at the start of the game and then leave it be. WBD's kill of Foog should not have happened if you didn't include it at the start of the game. Same with MB's investigator role. It's almost like you wanted to give the town help when we weren't doing very well and I don't understand why you couldn't just let us lose if that's the direction we were heading. Maybe WBD got lucky in picking Foog, but I'd be really frustrated as scum if that had happened to my team.

Also, the day thread isn't always an indication of activity. I'm a bit disappointed at being modkilled for inactivity given the amount of thought and effort I put into this game.

In all, I hope I've learned a lot and can improve in my next game. I had fun despite my ineffectiveness, although that added some stress to it, too.

[Hinckley]

That and there has been a severe lack of chandeliers recently.

Obviously you're to busy with "Uni" to read the frontpage:

I had an enjoyable experience, but I forgot how fast these games moved!

Or painfully slow as the case may be. Don't forget there were several days where nothing seemed to be moving. At least to those watching from the sidelines.

Hopefully there will be a time in my life when I'm able to sit in front of my computer, refreshing all day and posting like crazy!

Umm yeah ... ... that's something to strive for ... sure.

fhomess, if you want a raw critique of your performance, or rather a scathingly constructive criticism, read the dead writeboard.

I have lots to add, but I can't believe how burnt out I am about dissecting the tree stump. I'll try to add more to the conversation tomorrow, but tonight, since the game has finally concluded (that's not meant to be offensive, I loved this game) I'd like to give it and my mind a rest.

Thanks for hosting, Bob! Awesome job.

[Inconspicuous]

Or painfully slow as the case may be. Don't forget there were several days where nothing seemed to be moving. At least to those watching from the sidelines.

You have a point, but I was referring to the earlier days when pages of posts would be generated in a few hours.

Umm yeah ... ... that's something to strive for ... sure.

Don't worry, I was exaggerating. I just mean when I have a bit more free time a daily basis.

[Shadows]

Shadows - I nearly killed you the night you claimed to me because of so many obnoxious things you said in private to me.

See, darkdragon, I was mean to the town, too, just in private.

Seriously, I'm a bastard to play with if I'm town. If I'm scum, I'll just take over, or wait until 'the boss' gets himself killed and then take control. In the end, I'm a powerful ally, so figure out if I'm on your team, and if not, kill me quickly. Now I'm megablocking metagaming myself, will this ever end?

The whole protector with a defense mechanism struck me as a bit ridiculous and I asked you repeatedly to elaborate with no response from you to that request (not even a "no").

And it was completely true... in another game! The problem is that by the time I started talking to you, you were in complete paranoia mode and I kept getting contradictory stories from you and Tammo, so I wasn't feeling overly trusting either. There were a lot of things that I did explain, or things that didn't need explaining, so eventually the repeated questions got old, especially since I didn't feel like I was being listened to anyway.

You also refused to present your case against Foog publicly, which made me think you were trying to get me to do the dirty work for you. You eventually explained this in private, and I'll concede that you were right, but your methods just didn't endear trust with me.

To be fair, I didn't trust you at one point, almost becoming convinced that you could only pick such bad targets if you were either converted or a serial killer, so I may not have been as cooperative as I could have been.

Whatever the case, it was all cleared up by the end and the nasty scum were sent to their final reward, which is listening to York tell sting stories for the rest of eternity.

[swils]

Dead board looks like it was 100x more fun :(

[Rufus]

I thoroughly enjoyed this game. Being vanilla town is fun. I guess I didn't help town all that much, in the end, despite all the effort. Though I was killed by the scum, so I must have been doing something right! But then I was killed by town too, so I must also have been doing something wrong. That's the third time in as many games I've been killed twice at night!

[Scubacarrot]

Congratulations to the town... I have a lot to say about this game. The first thing, and probably the most important: I had a ton of fun. My scum team was awesome, and playing as scum was really cool.

But I have severe issues some things were handled and would avoid playing a game with someone that hosts in this way.

So let's see what the roles were, alright?

Town:

Blocker (Tammo)

Treestump + one-shot investigation (Hinckley)

Vigilante (fhomess)

Watcher (KoTZ)

Protector (Shadows)

PGO (Dragonator)

Neutral investigator that had no point, (reason, means?) in allying with Scum (Callmepie)

Extra affliation investigator (Masked Builder)

Extra one shot unavoidable day kill (WBD)

? did I forget anything?

Scum:

Killer, later godfather as well (Swils)

Role + Affliation Cop (Me!)

Blocker (Darkdragon)

Tracker (Awesomestar)

Protector (Fugazi)

Anyone else seeing issues with that? Just me?

What i mean by this is that I think the balance was off. Town had a lot more tools than scum, odd. I also obviously don't agree with the tacked on roles. The treestump was apparantly not tacked on. But really, it was BS, because Hinckley had access to the Dead writeboard and was freely talking to some scum members. If everyone had claimed to Hinckley ( I thought about it, but did not do it, because it would come off as gloating) what would he have done then?? Honestly, I think Hosts should be more careful with balance, sure it's a game and it needs to be balanced, but I feel a dynamic, balanced game IS more fun. Maybe Hosts should try to stick with tried game set ups you can find around "the internet" to avoid these kind of things.

I really think if Hinckley had not investigated me (or another scum), the scum would have won the next day. But there you go. I can't say the Town played well, some people did, more than others, but as a whole? Hmmm. What does that say for team scum? That we lost due to the game set up. It does not matter, but think about it for a second.

Overall I enjoyed the game as I said before, but as I also said before, I really don't want to play in a game where stuff is tacked on or there are blatant balance changes or even things to spice things up in the middle of the game.

[swils]

*What the megablocks is “souper-srs-mode”???

Super serious mode, though without rereading, I can't remember why exactly I used it, just that I meant for it to not actually be taken seriously (I think?).

*If I was Swils, I’d just have played sheep and voted for Draggy. No need to discuss things out. :sigh:

Because it was painfully obvious that this was another bad sting. I'd commented on the baiting/stinging several times already, and wasn't about to bite.

*(I actually don't feel like finding the quote again, but I think it was Hinck who "congratulated" WBD on finding "giving up" to be a town tell)

From our writeboard:

swils said… (Yesterday, looking at version 11)

Oh, and just to save face, would someone mention to the dead board that I’m making a last-ditch effort to play to WBD’s statement earlier that he thinks the few remaining scum would flail around and refuse to give up, whereas submission is a townie tell? Heh, I hate to leave the last day so boring… but blah.

*Swils sure does love to pre-argue points that make him Scum…

I've been working stupid-long shifts at my previously mentioned new job. It resulted in some downright awful play on my part, as was quickly picked up on in the deadboard (though, seemingly not so often in the actual day threads). I was only able to post so often between sleep and work and so I tried to keep myself from getting involved in anything that would require frequent responses. Unfortunately, somewhere along the line I decided that I should also try to pre-argue so that I could have some sort of defense in case I came under fire but wasn't able to defend myself at the time. This was especially true on that one late-night unvote of Shadows (Hey, Fug approved of it when I demo'ed my post in the scumboard! haha). I really wouldn't have been surprised if I'd woken up to find out that a majority had hopped onto me in the wee hours of the morning, when I simply couldn't have defended myself. I tried to pre-emptively stop that from happening. As has been pointed out, the town simply wasn't functioning well enough to put that into action, and I'd have been much better off not saying anything at all.

It's midnight, time to be getting to sleep, methinks. I'm curious what the special surprise would have been had fhomess targeted me.

[Palathadric]

Ensign Brian Pewter, security (Palathadric)

Welcome aboard the U.E.N. Excalibur! You are Ensign Brian Pewter, security aboard the Excalibur. You’re a simple security guard that happens to enjoy raiding the vending machine and food processor for food every now and then. You do your job diligently, standing guard in various places even though there’s never really any incident. And in addition, you know all of the people onboard very well. However, you remain at your post at all times, hoping to rise to Chief of Security one day.

However you are one among two who are not of this Earth. You are from Andur, a peaceful republic not too far away from Earth. You’ve been tasked by the High Council to watch over Lieutenat Wright, who is also from Andur, and ensure that nothing happens to him. You are an Andurian Spy posing as Ensign Brian Pewter. You keep this secret from the others and from him also. Your goal is to protect him from harm to the best of your ability by ensuring that you are lynched before him. However, before this happens, you need to form an alliance with the purists, thus enabling Wright to fulfill his mission. Be careful though and keep all this secret from him, as he may be opposed to it. When the alliance is formed, he will automatically join the purists and your mission will be complete.

You are a sneak and will appear as a loyalist if you are killed.

You are a neutral, you have no night actions. Please confirm in the discussion thread.

Edited August 14, 2012 by Palathadric

[AwesomeStar]

I think that considering the list of what we were up against (I didn't actually realise the town was that OP), us scum did really really well, considering until the penultimate day we had 3 members still alive.

I think one thing we could have done better was work our way into the town core. There was a point where we were going to gamble my role, as it got pretty useless at one point but eventually came back into play at the end, and see if we could pull it off but eventually just claimed vanilla and played it safe.

[Scouty]

Scouty - You really did claim to me that you didn't know dd was the target. I double checked my PM's after the decision was reached with Tammo to be sure I wasn't misreading something:

I don't know how else you expected me to interpret that. Ultimately, it appears there wasn't a leak, but given Scuba's success (and Tammo in my previous game Jedi Temple), you can see why I was particularly concerned that there was.

That was not intended to be read as "I didn't know that DD was targeted", but rather "I'm not the leak". I was traveling at the time, so I blame that for the confusion in my post. I can see where you got the idea, but, honestly, it was a stupidly paranoid decision because Tammo had told me the plan of killing darkdragon, to which I replied:

Alright, I alerted him to the plans. Pretty solid plan. I think the Foog would be another good candidate for investigation, though Draggy has been a very difficult read. I'm a little confused as to how I'm to play up masked being "protected". I'd have to come out as knowing the town protector, which I suppose is not a super risky fact now.

Here's wishing you the best of luck in blocking the scum blocker. Do you have any suspects that you have in mind?

and that is one of many reasons not to kill me on the fact of my denying of darkdragon's targeting. The most you could have done was ask for clarification or held off the kill, put up a case for my lynching later. Even put me on a temporarily information hold from the town block, which I never was included in completely; but outright killing me? Stupid stupid stupid.

These are the posts I made with Tammo, please check the dates:

I say we go after darkdragon today if the investigator doesn't bring anything more compelling. who knows, maybe you blocked the scum killer or blocker.

This was before Day 4 and before any mention of killing darkdragon was in the town block.

Rufus

Tammo

Dakar

Palathadric

Darkdragon

Well, three of five suspects are cleared. I still have a suspicion on darkdragon, though. She's pretty clever and her first post in the day thread today seemed a bit scummy to me.

Rufus is highest on my suspect list, but I don''t really have much to go off of from the few times he's posted.

And, now, I go to our pm thread, which makes me think you did a really poor job at re-reading the pm thread and only read what your paranoid mind wanted you to read:

This was just after Day 4 had ended, and should have clued you in that, regardless if I was scum or town, I knew about the plan to target DD:

Well, I haven't claimed to you because there isn't anything for me to claim to you !

Anyway, I've been in chats with Tammo and I think the idea of killing darkdragon is a great one. Fugazi and Awesomestar are also on my list.

Of course, I wouldn't know completely if you really had targeted DD, you guys like to switch up a lot in your NA, but I was sold with the plan all along. Looking at it, I guess I can see how it fits with the idea that I'm going with the plan so the scum know to protect DD, but there wasn't much time I could have discussed it with my scum-buds if that really were so.

Post Night 4, and my insistence in these PMs in going after darkdragon should have been enough to discount that I was scum and told them that DD was being targeted, making me the leak. No scum would actively push for their owns lynching; and though we didn't know DD's affiliation till after I died, we all had suspected her of being scum, and Tammo's case against her all but confirmed her as scum. Me not being included in the Town core ultimately led to the misunderstanding between you and Tammo.

Darkdragon has really done very little and what she has done is summarizing uselessness appearing to be helpful in my mind.

The Foog, too. Though he's been a little more helpful than darkdragon. However, he seems scummy to me, but I'd rather he be investigated first than killed cause I just don't know. He could very well be town.

Awesomestar...I've been getting some scummy jibes from him, but I don't know.

Well, the plan was after the fall of the old town block, I assume this plan to kill darkdragon and investigate Draggy with the protector on you was made in a new, private thread, and I think it's a pretty good plan. I'd be very weary in this new town block. It's best to keep the confirmed town roles separate from anybody else, it just looks like another ripe picking for the scum to know our plans. This new town block that Waterbrick is gathering together makes me a little nervous. No great amount of caution will make it a completely safe haven.

Yes, I am a vanilla townie. I usually don't like to be blunt about it, I like my actions in thread/private to declare that for me. It also makes me think of the opposite when people say they're town .

That's really interesting that darkdragon claimed to you as vanilla in private, considering how little she's done in thread. With this knowledge, darkdragon, WBD, and swils should be our targets for today's lynch and tonight's actions. Maybe we should make great efforts to tell them that our targets for today and tonight are going to be different people, like Rufus, Foog, myself, or somebody else. We could have a chance to throw them off and strike hard at them.

Hmm, so if DD isn't the killer, then she's likely not the blocker, either, as it seems like you were blocked as well tonight (Unless the scum can switch roles around). Still, that doesn't clear her, as she could still be a scum watcher or god father. If we don't go with DD today, then WBD/swils would be the next best thing.

I might put a little pressure on Darkragon, see if I can make her slip up or if it's worth going after her tonight.

With all this, I just found it really hard to believe that you guys killed me over denying darkdragon's targeting. It's common sense, something that this town clearly lacked.

I'm sorry to keep going on about this, but I was/am mad that I was killed by my own team so swiftly over something that could have been clarified so easily and left me with no chance at all to defend myself . I was having a lovely time in the game, so I was obviously upset to have been removed from it.

=====

Well, that would have been really interesting if Pala and CMP were both joined up with the scum. That actually makes the balance better, and would have been really tough for the town to go against 7 scum, or the scum being suddenly bolstered by 2 converts at whatever point. It was good for the town that the scum never seriously took up Pala's hook up.

[Scubacarrot]

Seriously Pala.

[Fugazi]

Seriously Pala.

"Unfortunately, all three of the deceased; Ensign Pewter, Ensign Campbell, and Ensign Falcon, are all Loyalists. We must do better today."

What gives?

And while I'm at it:

Lieutenant Suzanne Vanderbilt, med-bay nurse (Fugazi)

Welcome aboard the U.E.N. Excalibur! You are Lieutenant Suzanne Vanderbilt, a nurse in the medical bay onboard the Excalibur. You work under Doctor Julius Burbank as a nurse in the bay; however there are seldom any injuries except for a bruised arm or a scratch here and there. Regardless, regulations state there must be a full functioning medical center aboard each vessel. You also don’t like space exploration, and are a member of the League of Purists. You don’t like killing the other crewmen, which is why your job is simply to protect one of your fellow compatriots. Your fellow scum are: Andrew Gordon, Richard Francis, Toby Rockford, and Allison Williams.

You are a member of the League of Purists. Each night, you may block another player. Please confirm in the discussion thread

[Bob]

That and there has been a severe lack of chandeliers recently.

Day Two, Night One had you crushed by chandelier.

[Shadows]

*snip*

I would strongly suggest studying past games and how they were balanced. The number of roles for each side is incredibly typical and given Palathadric's revelation, it wasn't unbalanced at all in my estimation. For me, the most unbalanced role in the game is your godfather who was not only given the standard luxury of appearing to be town, but was some kind of PGO and the killer at the same time, meaning that your most important role had 2 layers of protection that they wouldn't normally have, giving you a lot more chance to kill nightly until the end. And I still don't see that as a problem either, just one more variation in games.

I know you think that hosts should stick to the tried and true or some such, but who wants to keep putting the same puzzle together over and over? Some of the best (and worst) games on EB have been wildly original and even horribly unbalanced, leading to a lot of interesting experiences, and even the bad ones have been memorable and educational. Hell, I've had hosts who literally tried to give me away as scum because the town was doing so poorly (or because they were just bastards ), and still won. It's all part of the journey and the hard journeys are the best.

So yeah, play some more, study past games, see the kinds of things that happen here (because EB Mafia is not Mafiawiki/internet-typical mafia), and you'll be amazed at how differently you see things.

[Scubacarrot]

snip

BS. I played in Yakuza, probably one of the more unbalanced games here, and even that was not as unbalanced as this game.

[Masked Builder]

I was the town vigilant in 1.0, and quite ready to do my part to help the town. But by the time 2.0 rolled around I was so messed up. I am glad we won though, it was a great game guys!

Masked Builder, you really got to speak up more man, I never knew whether you were a neutral investigator laying low, or you were a townie sheep, but without you we wouldn't have been able to narrow down the suspects, so I for one am glad you helped us.

Yeah I know. I hate speaking a lot and then having to defend myself.

[Palathadric]

Dead board looks like it was 100x more fun :(

You can say that again.

[Hinckley]

Anyone else seeing issues with that? Just me?

I would say it's just you. That's pretty standard for Mafia games on EB. And you had a protector? Scum rarely have that. Usually if there's a serial killer or something crazy like my bwankie in IMHOTEP. Town sometimes adds a role like inventor or mason as well. So, the Scum were actually a bit over-powered to start. If you hosted a game, what more power do you think the Scum would need. Keep in mind, being the informed minority gives them the upper hand in the first place. To be honest, it sounds like sour grapes. You're pointing to a typical Mafia setup and trying to cry foul, without even addressing that you are putting the neutrals in with the Town. Neutrals that weren't really helping us...at all. The Town did not have its own investigator in the beginning.

If everyone had claimed to Hinckley ( I thought about it, but did not do it, because it would come off as gloating) what would he have done then?? Honestly, I think Hosts should be more careful with balance, sure it's a game and it needs to be balanced, but I feel a dynamic, balanced game IS more fun. Maybe Hosts should try to stick with tried game set ups you can find around "the internet" to avoid these kind of things.

You didn't need to bring it up. I addressed it several times on the writeboard and with Bob when he told me I had a one-shot. I don't feel like re-hashing it, so I'll probably just re-post what I told you guys on the writeboard, Bob handled it very well considering I had talked with Foog and darkdragon about their alignment. (Bad example too, sorry. I always feel a bit more inclined to talk to the opposite team after I die, as previously I couldn't figure the harm, and that's a bad habit that has to be broken immediately.) We talked at length, Bob and I, about how to handle that and I think Bob reached a fair decision. Not to mention, it was awesome, and fun for me to be able to do something! The Town really needed it and gave a kick at the perfect time. Of course you hate it. And as I said, I can see why. I'll get to posting my answers to you from the dead writeboard in a bit. As far as hosts sticking to setups found around "the internet" in quotes for some reason, what type of thing are you trying to avoid, Scum losing? Since the game lasted so long and swils was only a day from winning, where was the balance so off that you're still going on about it? I think the fact that on Day Eight it still could've gone either way is an indication of a well-balanced game.

I really think if Hinckley had not investigated me (or another scum), the scum would have won the next day. But there you go. I can't say the Town played well, some people did, more than others, but as a whole? Hmmm. What does that say for team scum? That we lost due to the game set up. It does not matter, but think about it for a second.

OK, I'll bite. With 14 players left and five Scum, you would've won? I don't really follow your logic. But, I'm sure you have an answer!

Overall I enjoyed the game as I said before, but as I also said before, I really don't want to play in a game where stuff is tacked on or there are blatant balance changes or even things to spice things up in the middle of the game.

I guess that is the good point we came to on the writeboard. I really think you're being a bit unfair to Bob, like he was wildly tweeking the game on a daily basis. I think it seems more strange to you since you were on the Scum team and, no doubt, had your plan in place and didn't like to see the plan upset. However, it would be nice for hosts to kind of lay out their hosting philosophy at the beginnings of games, without giving too much away of course, so that players can get an idea of what they're in for.

And Shadows is right. The tree stump, added day vig and back-up investigator are not unprecedented, nor are they the craziest changes or additions we've seen on EB. So settle down, ScumbaRadish.

*What the megablocks is “souper-srs-mode”??? Super serious mode, though without rereading, I can't remember why exactly I used it, just that I meant for it to not actually be taken seriously (I think?).

Souper is not a word and dropping acronyms into everything is not a good communication skill. Do you want to kill the English language? Do you want to be able to communicate clearly in writing on your job applications, resume, college applications? Souper? Is that the cool way to spell super? Is spelling things wrong "in"? Is srs supposed to really be a word? I don't have time for vowels!! I can't stand when people chop up the English language and make things unreadable. I don't even like making people's usernames into acronyms. Just my opinion, but that opinion is that I think less of people who over use acronyms and goofy 1337 speak like "souper". Where's the ol' Hinck pic, darkdragon?

*If I was Swils, I’d just have played sheep and voted for Draggy. No need to discuss things out. :sigh:

Because it was painfully obvious that this was another bad sting. I'd commented on the baiting/stinging several times already, and wasn't about to bite.

*(I actually don't feel like finding the quote again, but I think it was Hinck who "congratulated" WBD on finding "giving up" to be a town tell)

Yeah, that was me. Apathy was rampant from Brickdoctor on down the line of lynched townies...

*Swils sure does love to pre-argue points that make him Scum…

I've been working stupid-long shifts at my previously mentioned new job. It resulted in some downright awful play on my part, as was quickly picked up on in the deadboard (though, seemingly not so often in the actual day threads). I was only able to post so often between sleep and work and so I tried to keep myself from getting involved in anything that would require frequent responses. Unfortunately, somewhere along the line I decided that I should also try to pre-argue so that I could have some sort of defense in case I came under fire but wasn't able to defend myself at the time. This was especially true on that one late-night unvote of Shadows (Hey, Fug approved of it when I demo'ed my post in the scumboard! haha). I really wouldn't have been surprised if I'd woken up to find out that a majority had hopped onto me in the wee hours of the morning, when I simply couldn't have defended myself. I tried to pre-emptively stop that from happening. As has been pointed out, the town simply wasn't functioning well enough to put that into action, and I'd have been much better off not saying anything at all.

Nobody alive seemed to notice.

I think that considering the list of what we were up against (I didn't actually realise the town was that OP), us scum did really really well, considering until the penultimate day we had 3 members still alive.

You had five Actions including a protector and an investigation-immune Godfather/paranoid-gun-owner/killer. You weren't up against anything any Scum team in this gaming community hasn't been up against before but with bigger weapons and shinier tools.

I think one thing we could have done better was work our way into the town core. There was a point where we were going to gamble my role, as it got pretty useless at one point but eventually came back into play at the end, and see if we could pull it off but eventually just claimed vanilla and played it safe.

After Scumba was revealed, not even the Town could break into the Town core...

Hell, I've had hosts who literally tried to give me away as scum because the town was doing so poorly (or because they were just bastards ), .

You're talking about me! It didn't work anyway, but I would never even think about trying that again. FiberCon jerk.

BS. I played in Yakuza, probably one of the more unbalanced games here, and even that was not as unbalanced as this game.

Shut up now. Seriously.