Friends vs Lord of the Rings

[SheepEater]

What we should really be asking here is: who is building an awesome Friends-LoTR MOC for the Summer of Friends challenge!

I was thinking of the Mirror of Galadriel. With tons of cute forest animals, flowers and accesories (her "gifts" to the fellowship). With Stephanie playing the part of Galadriel. I would need to borrow my niece's Stephanie to do that, though, and require many pieces for forests, trees, flowers.

[lightningtiger]

Remember LOTR is licensed which means Lego doesn't get all the money and Friend's can expand beyond what it is now.

So in the short term LOTR will even over power Star Wars, though even SW would still out gun Friend's in the long run.

[Lego Otaku]

My opinion: LotR will do better and longer.

LotR: is not really limited to sex or age, anyone can enjoy it. Even if you're not Hobbit or LotR fan but are fan of castle theme in general, this can work.

Friends: most boys would rather eat soap bar than to be caught touching the set. Also it doesn't seem to appeal to older people, mostly younger girls. The only good thing is for lots of small animals. Pastel colors don't seem to sell well on BL anyway.

I'd be surprised if Friend sets lasts more than 2 years before it gets axed.

[Aanchir]

My opinion: LotR will do better and longer.

LotR: is not really limited to sex or age, anyone can enjoy it. Even if you're not Hobbit or LotR fan but are fan of castle theme in general, this can work.

Friends: most boys would rather eat soap bar than to be caught touching the set. Also it doesn't seem to appeal to older people, mostly younger girls. The only good thing is for lots of small animals. Pastel colors don't seem to sell well on BL anyway.

I'd be surprised if Friend sets lasts more than 2 years before it gets axed.

I somewhat dislike that logic, because you can say "anyone can enjoy it" about most themes. Whether everyone will enjoy it is a different matter. That's the reason the Friends theme exists: to target the large portion of the female demographic which does not normally buy mainstream LEGO sets.

Some licensed themes have done better than non-licensed themes with girls in the past, but in general I don't see many young girls (or any girls at all who are not either devoted LEGO fans or devoted LotR fans) being interested in the LotR theme. So with that in mind, LEGO Friends has a purpose that only another girl-oriented theme could really fulfill.

Your comments about not appealing to older people are kind of confusing (there's no reason it shouldn't have the same appeal with older audiences as LEGO City), and your comment about Bricklink prices is irrelevant because Bricklink is relevant to very few people besides AFOLs and because aftermarket prices aren't a very good measure of actual demand.

I don't think the Friends theme itself has guaranteed longevity, but the way your comment is phrased you make it sound like it will fail because it is a girl-oriented theme. Plenty of boy-oriented themes have been successful, and if we assume that LEGO has universal appeal, then there's no reason a girl-oriented theme can't achieve the same success.

[Brickington]

Girls and Boys, Friends-lovers and LOTR-lover, how long is this Friend vs. LOTR fight going to go on?

[Blondie-Wan]

(edit: changed my mind; please ignore this post)

Edited June 27, 2012 by Blondie-Wan

[Ash]

It's hard to compare the two. However I think a lot of people are underestimating just how popular Friends already is.

On Amazon several Friends sets have been regular features in the top #20 in the toy bricks catagories since their release. Olivia's Tree House in particular has almost consistantly been the #1 item ordered as a gift in toy bricks on and off since release. Currently there are a load of Lord of the Rings sets dotted around there as well, but it remains to be seen if they stay in the chart for as long as the Friends sets have. At toy stores and supermarkets I see more people with Friends at the checkout than any other Lego range.

Don't get me wrong I'm a massive fan of Lord of the Rings and have zero interest in Friends, but I think the line is a lot more succesful than some people are giving it credit for. As I see it it's pretty much the 'Wii' of Lego. While a lot of serious Lego fans have issues with it and dismiss it (although I know it does have a dedicated following here) for a variety of reasons. The general public don't care and are buying it like crazy.

[LegoMyMamma]

Also it doesn't seem to appeal to older people, mostly younger girls.

Oh, I do wish I were a "younger" girl

Loads of "older" people enjoy Friends too -- adult females have been coming out of their "dark ages" in droves, due to Friends! Even BrickWorld's FFOL event featured Friends. Also, lots of adult male fans appreciate the sets as well -- have you not seen all the creations?

The future of Friends appears to be quite promising, or TLG wouldn't be adding more Designers for the Friends line: "We are looking for element designers with a design education or background that can add new creative ideas and concept approaches to our LEGO Friends product line."

[fyrmedhatt]

I love Lord of the Rings, I think the books and the movies are both fantastic and I am excited about all the sets. That being said, I don't think Lego has planned for more than about four waves, two LotR and two Hobbit ones to go with the movies unless they are a humongous success. Basically the comparison with Indiana Jones or Harry Potter is great in that we will likely see sets while the IPs are being advertised, but not when there is no new movies being released.

When it comes to Friends it seems Lego is thinking very long term, they are marketing the sets intensely to become as dominant in the female construction toy market as they are in the male one. They are likely to keep trying with Friends even if their first wave is not successful (which it must be, most stores never have the sets in stock), just look at the old Belville sets that were around for 17(!) years, and those were hardly marketed in North America thus sales were presumably lower than for Friends. I really see Lego Friends as a new mainstay like City, Castle or Space, where there are usually some form of sets available in the theme. I also think it is only a matter of time before we see Lego branching out with Friends-style Disney princesses and fairy-Friends.

[Javert]

perhaps this topic should read

Friends vs Monster Fighters? as Monster Fighters isn't a liscenced theme, and nor is friends

[Lyichir]

This just strikes me as comparing apples to oranges. I don't know which of these lines will last longer or be more successful, but it hardly matters since you'd be hard-pressed to name themes aimed at more disparate demographics than these. They're even stocked in different aisles in most stores! As such, I doubt sales of one will have any effect on sales of the other.

[SheepEater]

you'd be hard-pressed to name themes aimed at more disparate demographics than these.

Mindstorms vs Friends?

[LegoMyMamma]

Mindstorms vs Friends?

Nope.

See this Friendsified Mindstorms video:

Try again

[Blondie-Wan]

I love Lord of the Rings, I think the books and the movies are both fantastic and I am excited about all the sets. That being said, I don't think Lego has planned for more than about four waves, two LotR and two Hobbit ones to go with the movies unless they are a humongous success. Basically the comparison with Indiana Jones or Harry Potter is great in that we will likely see sets while the IPs are being advertised, but not when there is no new movies being released.

Actually, Indiana Jones got a whole second year with two more waves the year after the movie came out. I think that, if anything, there'll be more waves of Middle-earth sets than there were of Indiana Jones ones (which would mean at least 5 waves of Middle-earth sets), for a variety of reasons:

• The Middle-earth series will have one more movie than the Indy series (Indy also has a TV show, but kids don't know it and TLG didn't use it)
  
• The Lord of the Rings movies are all much larger and longer, and thus arguably providing even more material for sets
  
• All the Middle-earth movies were released more than a decade more recently than three of the four Indy ones
  
• The Lord of the Rings movies have been even better received both critically and commercially than the Indiana Jones ones
  

If Indy can have a second wave released more or less alongside the new movie in Spring of 2008 and then get another wave in January of 2009, and another wave six months after that, I can't help but think there'd be at least two Middle-earth waves released after the December 2013 release of the second Hobbit movie. That'd be one for summer 2014, and one for winter 2014/2015. That looks to me like a minimum of six waves:

1. Spring / summer 2012 - launch wave (classic Lord of the Rings - the sets we have now)
   
2. Winter 2012 - The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey new movie launch wave
   
3. Spring / summer 2013 - summer wave (second rounds of sets from LotR, presumably more Hobbit as well)
   
4. Winter 2013 - The Hobbit: There and Back Again new movie launch wave
   
5. Spring / summer 2014 - summer wave (more sets from both parts of The Hobbit, perhaps more LotR)
   
6. Winter 2014/2015 - winter wave (more from any/all of the five movies, released around the holidays)
   

... and if it proves successful enough (no guarantee, but if any theme other than Star Wars has the potential to do so, it surely must be this one), they could continue a little farther.

[SheepEater]

Nope.

See this Friendsified Mindstorms video:

Try again

Great! I loved that

Went to a very small toy store today. They had neither LOTR or Friends. Bizarrely, they said that they couldn't get any Friends sets from Lego at the moment.

I was carrying my helms's deep set in my backpack that I had just gotten from Purolator and showed it to her. She was in awe. Being the geek I am, I said, don't it look ten times more impressive than all the other Lego you're selling?

[lorax]

Which sets will I buy more of... Friends... easily. I already have multiples of nearly all the Friends sets they have released in Australia so far.

Which sets will sell better... I think Friends, it has broader appeal and larger room for growth (they also seem to empty off the shelves quickly, and reading feedback to recent toy sales, lots of complaints of Friends selling out online and in stores).

Which sets are better... Friends (but I am biased as I am a bit girly and find LOTR dead boring and ugly (and but will still buy a couple of small sets to get new horses).

[Faefrost]

Great! I loved that

Went to a very small toy store today. They had neither LOTR or Friends. Bizarrely, they said that they couldn't get any Friends sets from Lego at the moment.

I was carrying my helms's deep set in my backpack that I had just gotten from Purolator and showed it to her. She was in awe. Being the geek I am, I said, don't it look ten times more impressive than all the other Lego you're selling?

Friends has been selling out from the factory almost as soon as the new production runs populate. What this means is the line has been grossly exceeding it's anticipated demand and anticipated revenue returns. That might actually make it the highest profit point line that Lego has this year. If so that would be a phenomenal thing for the company and for us as fans.

Don't get me wrong. I love Tolkien. The very first story I remember my father reading to me as a child was "An Unexpected Party" the first chapter of he Hobbit, that was included in a big red book of nursery stories. The very first grown up book I read for myself was the full Hobbit. I have lived and breathed Tolkien all of my life. I am thrilled these sets are out.

But I also love this hobby. At the end of the day LotR's is another licensed product line. Not too far removed from Indy, Harry Potter and PotC. Our best possible reasonable outcome will be it doing as well as HP. (sorry it will not do as well as Star Wars, it lacks the cool vehicle element.)

Whereas the success of Friends opens up a whole new frontier for Lego and by extension, us. It welcomes that entire other half of the population into our world. While I personally am not a fan of the individual sets, I can stomach down the vibrant pink purple and teal colors if having them means the user base is growing. That's the HUGE difference between LotR and Friends. LotR will be a highly successful line. We eat it up here. It will even bring in some new fans, Particularly AFOL's. But Friends? It is likely that 90+% of those sets sold are to new Lego fans and users. Think about that! Those shelves of purple boxes being left looking like they were looted during Katrina? Those are all new Lego customers. They are the sisters, the daughters, he nieces of all of us here. So long as the line doesn't tank on the shelves in the next release cycle, there is virtually no way that LotR's could equal hat degree of success. The only other things Lego has had with that much potential have been Star Wars and Bionicle in its prime.

[Phoxtane]

I got Lego catlogs far enough back to remember the Belvue and Clickits lines... there were what, like, three waves apiece?

I will say that IMHO the Friends figures are just plain weird and to me fit more into the Polly Pocket style than Lego.

[Bilbo Baggins]

I hope LOTR is more popular, you should turn this into a poll.

[SheepEater]

I can't create a poll yet. I'm just a citizen.

[Gryphon Ink]

Apples and oranges. I think both themes will be successful, but they have different goals. Being a non-licensed theme, TLG can drop Friends at any time, relaunch it, revamp it, or declare it dead and launch a similar theme building on its success a la Castle. It could (in theory at least) last as long as Technic or Pirates as long as it keeps on hitting a fairly low sales goal, because from TLG's point of view the key thing is keeping a presence in the Pink Aisle. With that in mind, I suspect they will want to keep the theme going even if the sales figures are barely breaking even.

LOTR has a very different objective. It's to cash in on one of the hottest franchises around during the next couple of years by catering to AFOLs with beloved character designs and battle scenes. Realistically, the demand for LOTR toys will start to diminish as soon as the second Hobbit movie comes out on DVD. Sorry, I'm as big a Tolkien fan as anybody and have been since I was about five years old, but that's how it is. The thing that's driving LOTR merchandising right now is not the books that were published sixty years ago, but the movies - specifically, the fact that there are Hobbit movies coming out soon. Once those movies have finished their first run, the worldwide Tolkien frenzy will start to fade away again. How long did Lego Harry Potter last after the eighth HP movie?

My pie-in-the-sky prediction is that LOTR will run from 2012-14, something like six waves, and it will sell incredible numbers during that time. But right after the first wave of DVD sales ends for Hobbit Pt. 2, the sales will drop to the point where it's no longer profitable for TLG to keep the license. There will be other, hotter franchises out there for them to pick up.

[Aanchir]

Apples and oranges. I think both themes will be successful, but they have different goals. Being a non-licensed theme, TLG can drop Friends at any time, relaunch it, revamp it, or declare it dead and launch a similar theme building on its success a la Castle. It could (in theory at least) last as long as Technic or Pirates as long as it keeps on hitting a fairly low sales goal, because from TLG's point of view the key thing is keeping a presence in the Pink Aisle. With that in mind, I suspect they will want to keep the theme going even if the sales figures are barely breaking even.

LOTR has a very different objective. It's to cash in on one of the hottest franchises around during the next couple of years by catering to AFOLs with beloved character designs and battle scenes. Realistically, the demand for LOTR toys will start to diminish as soon as the second Hobbit movie comes out on DVD. Sorry, I'm as big a Tolkien fan as anybody and have been since I was about five years old, but that's how it is. The thing that's driving LOTR merchandising right now is not the books that were published sixty years ago, but the movies - specifically, the fact that there are Hobbit movies coming out soon. Once those movies have finished their first run, the worldwide Tolkien frenzy will start to fade away again. How long did Lego Harry Potter last after the eighth HP movie?

My pie-in-the-sky prediction is that LOTR will run from 2012-14, something like six waves, and it will sell incredible numbers during that time. But right after the first wave of DVD sales ends for Hobbit Pt. 2, the sales will drop to the point where it's no longer profitable for TLG to keep the license. There will be other, hotter franchises out there for them to pick up.

This depends on how willing Peter Jackson is to let the franchise die... I'm not confident that movies could be made from other Middle-Earth stories like those in The Silmarillion or Unfinished Tales, especially since those wouldn't have the benefit of familiar franchise characters tying them together, but there are other potential ways of trying to keep the franchise alive. For instance, how about re-releasing the original Lord of the Rings film trilogy in 3-D as is being done with the Star Wars films currently? I'm sure this possibility hasn't been ignored.

I agree that the books alone simply won't move merchandise the way theatrical films will. There will continue to be LotR merchandise, of course, but it will likely consist of niche products like tabletop role-playing games. Still, the biggest disadvantage of LEGO licensed themes is also a pretty significant advantage. TLG may have little control over the license's power to move merchandise, but at the same time this relieves them of a lot of the responsibility for marketing the story, the characters, and the franchise as a whole.

[Locomotive Annie]

I don't think guys understand how much we women are delighted by Friends. I'm well into middle age and have grown up adult children and I don't see myself getting tired of sets that have such a wide appeal to femalekind. And yes I like the new Friends minifigs or mini-dolls too. The classic minifig still has a place in my heart, but it's good to have girl figures that look like girls too.

I've got no arguement against the popularity of LotR, when I was a teenager I read the book ten times through cover to cover and I've seen all the films at least twice and countless times on DVD. I have a custom built Lego Elf army too of which I'm very proud. Nobody is going to get tired of Elves and Hobbits anytime soon, only you also have to remember that women and girls aren't going to get tired of being female either so that now Lego has answered the demand for sets that appeal to us they would be mad fools to shut the line down.

[ShaydDeGrai]

I think the real question is really, how committed is TLG to going after potential customers _outside_ of their traditional demographic.

Friends doesn't do a lot for me, personally, but I like the concept better than I did Belville and I appreciate the color palette. That said, I have a number of friends in SWE (Society of Women Engineers) and they are completely thrilled by the offering and as a former educator, I embrace the idea of getting construction toys in the hands of young girls before gender stereo-types start telling them there's something wrong with them if they actually enjoy something other than tea parties with stuffed animal and Barbie dolls.

I'm a big LOTR fan but I'm also (or perhaps because I'm such a fan) disappointed by TLG's offerings to date. The LotR is so much bigger and richer than a few mini-figures and play sets (with gratuitous play features) There's nothing fundamentally WRONG with the sets they've released to date, but if you're NOT an eight year old whose only experience with Middle Earth has come from Peter Jackson's films, you just can't help thinking "That's it? Where are the Ultimate Collector Set models? Where are the Architecture-style models I can display at the office?" Even if you _ARE_ an eight year old you find yourself asking "Where's Galadriel? Or Arwen? Or Eowyn? Or any other female character for that matter? What about Elrond? Saruman? Gandalf the White? The Witch King? Denathor? Treebeard?" There's just so much untapped potential, the current line leaves you feeling hungry rather than excited.

Friends could be as open ended as Creator if TLG were to made a serious commitment to making it so, but it doesn't have the best track record when it comes to attracting and keeping a female audience compared to fielding kits that virtually leap into the hands of young boys.

On it's surface, the LotR currently looks to be stuck somewhere between a Prince of Persia and a Harry Potter line, but if TLG actively sought to engage adult LOTR fans (not just existing TFOLs and kids who _also_ like LOTR) a Middle Earth line could be as big as Lego Star Wars (I'm sure I'm making myself a target here but...) if you look beyond the film to the books, Tolkien's other literary works, notes and letters, 70 years of fan art both commercial and otherwise, the three ages of Middle Earth offer a huge universe to drawn upon for kits, by comparison (and I say this both as an informed Star Wars fan and someone ready to duck) the Star Wars just isn't that rich (yes I have read the books, the comics, seen the movies and TV shows, played the games, etc. SW is big, but when it comes to real substance and originality its not the be-all-end-all universe some fans think). Unfortunately The Silmarillion is not exactly typical reading for your average eight year old and I just don't see Morgoth taking down the Valar with flick-fire missiles so TLG would really have to go outside their comfort zone to capitalize on this market.

[SheepEater]

I just don't see Morgoth taking down the Valar with flick-fire missiles

:rofl: Quote of the week!

Yeah, obviously all of us AFOLS salivate over UCS architectural sets (Rivendell? Black Gate of Mordor? Barad-Dur? Minas Tirith? Isengard oh man... ) based on LOTR locations; it's Lego that needs to be convinced of its profitability.

Anyway, I think Friends has passed its first test. I don't own any for myself but my 8 year old niece LOVES them and I bought 2 more sets for her birthday. She has sent me pics of her toys after she was done building them!

They are miles ahead of Belville and Paradisa (those lines weren't much in the way of actual building).

I've seen the upcoming Barbie Megabloks sets and they are crap, just as bad as Belville was if not worse. I've seen only 4 colors in total: Dark Pink, medium pink, light pink, and turquoise.