Heroica RPG - Expert Job Class Discussion

[Scubacarrot]

Oh, and if the Werewolf is immune to the "Afraid"-effect, how else could they be forced to fight from the back row?

Petrifying is equal to killing the enemy in one hit, since very few enemies can remove bad effects. I don't see how the skill could get anymore powerful than that.

Things like Knockback?

I assumed it lasted for a set number of rounds, but yes, if that is the case, then the enemy could not counter it.

[Sandy]

These fancy fencers are in it for the fame and fortune and while they may come across as well to do or even snobbish they are masters of the blade.

• Additional Health: +14
  
• Weapons: Swashbucklers wield short and long bladed weapons and thus utilize Long swords, Great swords, and Daggers
  
• Job trait: Diplomacy (See knights), Coup de grace – If the Swashbuckler defeats an enemy they are hastened for the remainder of the battle. Duelist – For every enemy the Swashbuckler defeats in a battle they gain Gold equal to two times the enemy’s level
  
• Battle style: Proud – Swashbucklers find their worth in how much standing they have in society, generally measured in how many enemies they have defeated or in how large their purse is.
  
  1. SHIELD:
  Fight to the death
  – The Swashbuckler attacks the target with strength equal to their weapon power times 4 added to their level; additionally the targeted enemy may only damage the Swashbuckler for the remainder of the battle.
  
  
  2. ELITE CRITICAL HIT: The Swashbuckler attacks the target with strength equal to the weapon power times two, added to their amount of gold divided by 100 rounded up, added to their level. Ex. ((WPx2)+(Gold/100)+Level)
  
  
  3. ELITE HIT: The Swashbuckler attacks the target with strength equal to their weapon power, added to their amount of gold divided by 100 rounded up, added to their level. Ex. (WP+(Gold/100)+Level)
  
  
  4. COUNTER: The Swashbuckler is struck by the opponent’s attack but attacks right back at the enemy with strength equal to their level.
  
  
  5. DAMAGE: The Swashbuckler is struck by the opponent's attack.
  
  
  6. SPECIAL Dodge: The Swashbuckler has a 50/50 chance to dodge the opponent's special skill so that it hits the next ally in turn instead, unless the skill hits everybody.

Notes:

• Weapons fixed.
  
• Coup de grace now hastens the Swashbuckler for the entire battle.
  
• Duelist is now buffed to deliver 2 times an enemies level in gold after a kill.
  
• Elite Critical Hit and Elite Hit now add the Gold/100 factor instead of multiplying by it.
  
• Special Damage has been switched to Special Dodge.
  

I don't remember if I already commented on this class, but I really like it. Especially how it's power is dependent on gold, and how it only uses swords. The class seems quite balanced to me.

[JimBee]

Thanks for the feedback, Scuba and Sandy.

Hmm... This class is very close to my Chi Monk, but it also has some distinct differences.

I did originally reveal it before the official expert classes were, so the similarities are pure coincidence (or: great minds think alike... ).

With the permanent encouraged-effect in place, at Level 30 their normal hits will cause 60 damage and their critical hits 120 damage. That's about equal to an un-encouraged, non-elemental attack of a Chi Monk, but with a Mead and a correct element, The Chi Monk can cause up to 240 damage to one enemy with a normal hit. So your class is actually lacking in power.

I will have to adjust that, then.

The Shield skill is actually one-hit KO for the targetted enemy, but I'm sure many QMs will counter it by making their enemies immune to petrify, so you might want to think of something else.

Will do. Would you accept something like "petrified for three rounds" or "petrified until attacked"? Or would prefer something else entirely?

Hastened-effect usually lasts for the rest of the battle, so "Agility" is a bit problematic on that front. Maybe consider wording it differently?

"Gets two turns the next round"?

Oh, and if the Werewolf is immune to the "Afraid"-effect, how else could they be forced to fight from the back row?

Ah, yep, I forgot about that. Good catch.

I will make these adjustments and get back to you again shortly.

[CMP]

I was looking at Alchemist, and something occurred to me - are the effects of Mixture instant when the Shield is rolled, or are they actual consumables to be used in battle? The concept of the class had me thinking the latter at the first, but now I'm not sure.

[Sandy]

Will do. Would you accept something like "petrified for three rounds" or "petrified until attacked"? Or would prefer something else entirely?

But, then it wouldn't be the "petrified"-effect anymore, but the "stunned" or the "asleep"-effect.

For a Shield-skill, just inflicting one effect is very weak. Remember that the Shield-skills are supposed to be "lifesavers" in most cases, the players should want to see them happen in a battle.

I think a skill that causes damage AND an effect would be best for the class. I'll leave it up to you to think of something.

I was looking at Alchemist, and something occurred to me - are the effects of Mixture instant when the Shield is rolled, or are they actual consumables to be used in battle? The concept of the class had me thinking the latter at the first, but now I'm not sure.

I planned that the mixtures would be instant, but on the other hand it would add strategy to the class if they were items that could be saved for later... Or would that only clutter the Alchemist's inventory with items they might never use? The first option "explosion" would still be instant, though.

[CMP]

I planned that the mixtures would be instant, but on the other hand it would add strategy to the class if they were items that could be saved for later... Or would that only clutter the Alchemist's inventory with items they might never use? The first option "explosion" would still be instant, though.

I might be biased, I'm seriously considering taking the class when the opportunity comes up, but I would love if they were actual items. A lot of them wouldn't be helpful, say, in the beginning of battle, and like you said, it would add a lot to strategy to use them when needed. Plus, Instant Items would be a lot more beneficial.

[Khorne]

Wow, that Swashbuckler class looks awesome. I'd totally play as one if it were possible. Great job, WBD!

[Flipz]

I just want to say that I would TOTALLY take Chaos Defender for Arthur--it would REALLY suit him well.

[LEGOman273]

I am thinking of editing Bounty Hunter a bit more, does anyone have any suggestions?

@Flipz:

I added what you suggested; how does it look?

Edited June 6, 2012 by LEGOman273

[Scorpiox]

Wrong friggin' topic...

Edited June 6, 2012 by Scorpiox

[JimBee]

Alright, I've made some changes, let me know what you think.

Werewolf

The cursed beings have the ability to transform between man and beast. The start of a battle will instigate a transformation into beast form, while the end of the battle will force it back to default form.

Additional Health: +12

Weapons: None – Werewolves cannot use any weapons in battle, and instead rely on their own strength to dispose of enemies.

Job Traits: Strongman – Werewolves are immune to the Afraid, Weakened, and Fragile effects. Natural Respite – See Barbarian. Fearless – Werewolves are Encouraged for all battles, but cannot fight from the back row.

Battle Style: Cursed – Werewolves look to pass their curse on to foes.

1. SHIELD: Lunacy – The Werewolf harnesses the power of the moonlight to inflict the Hexed effect upon the target for three turns. The target will deal regular damage to the first enemy listed (besides itself).

2. CURSED CRITICAL HIT – The Werewolf attacks with twice their current power and inflicts the Cursed effect to the target enemy.

3. CURSED HIT – The Werewolf attacks with strength equal to their power and inflicts the Cursed effect to the target enemy.

4. AGILITY – The Werewolf limbers up so that gets two turns the next round.

5. DAMAGE – The Werewolf is struck with the opponent’s attack.

6. SPECIAL DODGE – The Werewolf has a 50/50 chance to dodge the opponent’s special skill so that it hits the next ally in turn instead, unless the skill hits everybody.

Notes:

- Removed "unless forced to" from Fearless job trait (Immune to Afraid effect to begin with).

- Changed Battle Style to "Cursed" to reflect new moveset.

- Changed Shield skill. In a sense, it does deal damage as well as give an effect. I'm not sure if this is under/overpowered.

- Changed Critical Hit/Hit to give the Cursed effects. Still not as powerful as the Chi Monk, but with Agility the Werewolf has a pretty good chance of inflicting the Cursed effect. And there's no Berserk-type effect preventing the Werewolf from Cursing multiple enemies.

[CMP]

You've really enhanced the class- it looks really unique and balanced. The only thing I'm kind of unsure of is the Shield. It's not overpowered or anything, in my opinion it just doesn't fit the class. Maybe something like the Howl you had earlier, except dealing the Weakened or Fragile effect to all enemies? Of course, it's probably just personal bias because you're putting the Witch's Shield to shame.

[Waterbrick Down]

Good job JimB, I like this class a lot better as it now has a more distinct battle style. I agree with Pie, that the shield seems a little out of place, the werewolf still feels to me that it needs that physical power move, perhaps have a physical attack that has a 1/2 chance of KOing the opponent?

I am curious though, just how does one choose the Werewolf as an expert class?

EDIT: Expert Class 2 of 3. This next one is somewhat the utility character straddling between the fighting class Swashbuckler and the support class which is number 3 of 3. This class is similar to a mix between the Minstrel and the Mage, in that there are a variety of options available to the player all dependent upon which strategy they wish to employ. Oh, it's also dependent upon role-playing for the 1 or 2 of you who may care about such things.

Illusionists are first and foremost, performers. They are known for their wit, charm, and unbounded imaginations and possess the ability to bring their and others' very fantasies to life.

• Health Bonus: +11
  
• Ether Bonus: +3 (+1 per level for classes without base ether)
  
• Weapons: Staves, Wands, Daggers.
  
• Job traits: Figment - Instead of fighting, the illusionist can create a spell that negatively effects an enemy stats (see List of Figment effects for reference), Misconception - The Illusionist may cast a deception that affects any of the 5 senses for the cost of 1 ether, Flee (see Rogue),
  
• Battle style: Conjury – the Illusionist utilizes its creativity to craft spells causing enemies to harm themselves.

1. SHIELD: Bafflement – The Illusionist casts an astounding marvel of deception causing all opponents to harm themselves equal to their level times a factor of 2 for good role-playing and causing the

confused

effect to all opponents.

2. CRITICAL HIT/GREATER ILLUSION: The Illusionist attacks the target with strength equal to two times their weapon power added to their level. Alternatively the Illusionist can use 1 ether to craft an illusion that will cause the enemy to harm themselves doing damage equal to two times the Illusionist’s weapon power added to their level times 2 for good role-playing (QM Subjective).

3. HIT/ILLUSION: The Illusionist attacks the target with strength equal to their weapon power added to their level. Alternatively the Illusionist can use 1 ether to craft an illusion that will cause the enemy to harm themselves doing damage equal to the Illusionist’s weapon power added to their level times 2 for good role-playing (QM Subjective).

4. REPLICATE: The Illusionist uses 1 ether to create a duplicate of him/her-self that will take the next strike against the Illusionist before dissipating. Only 2 duplicates may exist at a time.

5. DAMAGE: The Illusionist is struck by the opponent's attack.

6. SPECIAL DAMAGE: The Illusionist is struck by the opponent’s special attack.

List of Figment Spell effects: Cost 1 ether to maintain per round, effectiveness is QM Subjective:

Blinded

Afraid

Slowed

Enamored

Confused

Distracted

Notes: The class is for those who wish to enhance their characters effectiveness by role-playing spells during battle, hence an Illusionist could cast a Figment where in they discribe how their spell envelops their target in a cloud of blackness blinding him if the QM thinks it is appropriate, obviously if the enemy is a bat or some other form of eyeless fiend, then it would not work. Alternatively the player could choose to cast an illusion for example at a snake enemy, the player could cause his illusion to make the targetted snake appear to be a mouse by his companion snakes causing them to attack him and doing damage (still equal to the Illusionist's WP+Lv. though) but now multiplied by 2 for good role-playing (again QM subjective). Now of course this entire class may depend on how much of a jerk the QM is being, but thus far, I don't believe I've come across any QM's who are out to kill their Parties yet. Of the job traits, "Flee" seems to fit the mage/deception feel of the class, "Figment" is similar to the Minstrel's "Battle Song", and "Misconception" is mainly used for outside of battle.

Also note that one of the "Figment" effects is "Distracted" basically this is a new effect that I'm trying to implement where in the target will 100% take a "3. Hit" from the next person who targets them.

The class would be offered as a reward for a series of quests I'm in the middle of planning involving a traveling circus/carnival.

Let me know what you think.

Edited June 8, 2012 by Waterbrick Down

[LEGOman273]

Looks good WBD.

I have updated the second post with the most recent editions of the Class pitches.

Poison Ivy needs to edit (so as to make it less OP) her's before I will index it.

[LEGOman273]

1. @Sandy: I know that I am not a QM (yet ), but would you take a look at my Class? I can't think of anything else to add/change, and i would appreciate your feedback.

2. @Brickdoctor: Where did you say you got the Class-sheet?

3. @All: I will have a pic for this later today.

Bounty Hunter

*Pic Coming*

Additional Health: +12

Additional Ether: +3 (+1 for each Level in non-Ether users)

Weapons: Anything suitable for a Rogue, Ranger, or Mage - as long as it has been imbued with the Darkness element.

Job Traits:

Dark Spirit: Bounty Hunters may cast spells, but only of the Darkness element; in addition, they may not wield any weapon that is not Darkness-imbued (dual-imbued weapons are allowed, so long as one of the elements is Darkness). Bounty Hunters are immune to Darkness damage but take double damage from Light. Bounty Hunters cannot use Holy Bombs.

Grift/Threaten (see Black Knight)

Spell Casting (See Mage)

Track Down (see Ranger)

Battle Style: Badass - Just keep reading and you will see.

1. SHIELD: One of 3 Shield effects is chosen at random, via a dice roll.

2. CRITICAL HIT/SPELL: The Bounty Hunter Attacks its target with the strength of its WP x2 (x4 for spells) / cost 1 Ether for spells.

3. HIT/SPELL: The Bounty Hunter attacks the target with the strength of its WP + its Level (Level x2 for spells) / cost 1 Ether for spells.

4. DECOY - The Bounty Hunter hides behind an ally next to them in the party Battle Order. Next Round, any damage or effect (positive or negative) that is dealt to the Bounty Hunter affects the ally instead.

5. DAMAGE/DEFLECTION: The Bounty Hunter has a 50/50 chance of A. Deflecting its target's Damage to another (randomly-chosen) participant in the Battle (can be friend or foe), or B. Being struck by its opponent's damage.

6. SPECIAL DAMAGE: The Bounty Hunter is struck by its opponent's special skill.

SHIELD ACTIONS:

1-2. Bait and Switch - The Bounty Hunter switches a (randomly-generated 3-6) Shield effect with a (randomly-chosen) Party member who has also rolled a Shield.

3-4. Lethal Mug - The Bounty Hunter instantly kills its target, and steals an amount of Gold equal to the target's Level. In the case of a target's being immune to instant kill, the Bounty Hunter only steals the Gold.

5-6. Dark Blast - The Bounty Hunter unleashes a blast of Darkness-Elemental energy equal to its WP x2 on all enemies, and steals Gold from each target equal to each target's respective Level / costs no Ether.

Eligibility for Bounty Hunter:

Anyone who is over Level 30, and who has completed at least three assassination-and-or-infiltration Quests.

Edited June 8, 2012 by LEGOman273

[Scubacarrot]

-snip-Now of course this entire class may depend on how much of a jerk the QM is being, but thus far, I don't believe I've come across any QM's who are out to kill their Parties yet. -snip-

Uhm, anyway, it looks good, but I do believe the fact that the QM has to judge wether or not and how something works can get a bit complicated, so I am not sure how I feel about that.

I have got another class, I present: The Bard

Picture coming soon.

The Bards inspire their companions with legends of old brought forward by song, but can stand their own in battle as well.

• Additional Health: +10
• Weapons: Bards can use Daggers, Longswords and Throwing Weapons, they also require an Instrument, to be effective in battle.
• Job Traits: Quick Tongue (The Bard's own form of diplomacy), Inspiring Legend - The Bard can choose from several Legends to sing to help out in battle, can only be changed out of battle, Linguistic Talent - The Bard has no Language-Barriers, includes animals.
• Battle Style: Poetic - Bards fight inspired by great legends.

1. SHIELD:

Lute Hero

: The Bard plays a song so great, that all enemies receive damage equal to their instruments power added to their level (e.g WP: 15 + Level 30 = 45 damage to all enemies), and are instantly stunned for the rest of the turn and the following(except those Immune), and are defenseless, causing them also to be *

Brittle

*, meaning they receive double damage (for the rest of the turn and next).

2. HIT OF LEGENDS: Inspired by deeds from the myths, the Bard delivers a powerful hit, causing damage equal to two times the weapon power of their weapon and two times the weapon power of their instrument, added to their level. (e.g. weapon WP:15 x2 + instrument WP:15 x2 + Level 30 = 90 damage.)

3. HIT: The Bard attacks their target with strength equal to their weapon power added to their level. (e.g. weapon WP:15 + Level 30 = 45 damage.)

4. TUNING: The Bard tunes their instrument, for one can't be a proper bard with an off-key instrument, resulting in an increase of 1 power for their instrument. (The effect is cumulative, but does not transfer to new equipment.

5. DAMAGE: The Bard is struck by the opponent's attack.

6. SPECIAL DAMAGE: The Bard is struck by the opponent's special attack.

List of Legends:

The Tale of Salazar the Snake: Everyone in the battle gets the ability to Flee during battle.

The Ballad of True Friendship: Healing others is twice as effective.

Graverobbers Ditty: All attacks can hurt the undead.

Dungeoneering Dirge: enemies that can be considered "evil" receive double damage (QM's discretion)

Anthem of Adventurers: All Gold gained from muggins and similair attacks is doubled.

Legends of Eubric: The party is Encouraged and Lucky. (can only be song in one battle per quest)

[CMP]

Bard looks way too much like Minstrel in my opinion, and Illusionist has a similar problem with being able to cast negative effects. I like the illusion thing, though, although too nice of a QM would kind of mess up the system. Although, I think Sandy mentioned being able to pick up other Minstrel songs during quests, and all of the legends you listed would be really cool to use in-battle at some point.

[JimBee]

Thanks guys.

You've really enhanced the class- it looks really unique and balanced. The only thing I'm kind of unsure of is the Shield. It's not overpowered or anything, in my opinion it just doesn't fit the class. Maybe something like the Howl you had earlier, except dealing the Weakened or Fragile effect to all enemies? Of course, it's probably just personal bias because you're putting the Witch's Shield to shame.

D'oh! I totally did not mean to copy the Witch's Hex skill. I originally had it as turning an enemy, and then looked to see if there was already an effect like it. It never occurred to me that the witch already did this. Thanks for the suggestion for the Shield skill, though, that is probably what I'll do.

...perhaps have a physical attack that has a 1/2 chance of KOing the opponent?

This would be pretty characteristic of a werewolf, but I'll have to figure out if I want to make the class that powerful. IMO, the Assassin's OHKO (1/6 chance) is bordering OP, but I'll take that into consideration.

I am curious though, just how does one choose the Werewolf as an expert class?

Good question. The method will probably be a little unorthodox, but players will still be able to have choice in the matter. As for the roleplaying aspect of it, I think the player should act out finding a cure or remain a "werewolf" (not affecting battle) if they choose another class after. But that's just me.

Uhm, anyway, it looks good, but I do believe the fact that the QM has to judge wether or not and how something works can get a bit complicated, so I am not sure how I feel about that.

This pretty much sums up my thoughts on Illusionist as well. Bringing in roleplay to battle is definitely creative, but I'm not sure how well that would work out for some players and QMs. Not everyone is an expert at roleplaying, like you (WBD) said earlier, so having damage dealt be arbitrary to one's (specifically the QM) own opinion might cause problems. Yes, Expert Classes in general will be obscure and rare enough to do unorthodox things like these, but still I think the battle system should be concrete.

Otherwise, I think this is a good class. It seems like a stylized scroll mage, which is good because scrolls seem to be somewhat rare. Replicate seems a little overpowered to me, because a Miss role should be somewhat negative (like Counter where the player takes damage too), whereas Replicate seems more like a Shield skill. Perhaps it should cost more ether (say, 5), and would only occur when the Illusionist chooses to use ether (if not the attack would just be treated as a Miss). So:

MISS/REPLICATE: The Illusionist misses their attack. Optionally the Illusionist may spend 5 ether to create a duplicate of him/her-self that will take the next strike against the Illusionist before dissipating. Only 2 duplicates may exist at a time.

Replicate is very fitting to the class, though.

As for the Bard, personally I think it is too similar to the Minstrel. I do like the Job Traits and Legends, but it just seems like it would make things over-complicated with both Bards and Minstrels (which by definition are almost one in the same). By the way, the "Brittle" effect mentioned in the Shield roll is the same as the existing "Fragile" effect, I think.

[Scubacarrot]

As for the Bard, personally I think it is too similar to the Minstrel. I do like the Job Traits and Legends, but it just seems like it would make things over-complicated with both Bards and Minstrels (which by definition are almost one in the same). By the way, the "Brittle" effect mentioned in the Shield roll is the same as the existing "Fragile" effect, I think.

Yes, Fragile is what I meant, I just could not think of it .

I don't think they are too similair, to be honest. the only similarity is that they are a music-based class, and have supportive songs. The mechanics are completely different.

[Brickdoctor]

2. @Brickdoctor: Where did you say you got the Class-sheet?

Photoshopped it from the Knight Class picture.

[CMP]

Black Paladin

These paladins have fallen to darkness and had their angels corrupted by vile magics.

Weapons: Black Paladins use heavy blunt and bladed weapons like shields, greatswords, maces, hammers, axes, lances, halberds, and occasionally staves.

Job Traits: Intimidation - See Black Knight/Berserker. Black Healing - Black Paladins can heal allies like any ordinary Cleric, but it has no effect healing undead. Instead, healing will deal damage to Holy and Humanoid enemies.

Battle Style: Unholy - Black Paladins fight for the protection of their allies, as corrupt as they may be.

1. SHIELD - Demonic Retribution: The Black Paladin's corrupted angel protects the party from any damage and negative effects for the next round. Any damage or negative effects that would have been caused to an ally is instead dealt right back to the opponent.

2. CRITICAL HIT/DEFENDED BLACK HEAL MORE - The Black Paladin attacks their target for damage equal to twice their weapon power added to their level. Optionally, they may heal an ally at the expense of 1 ether for the same amount; in addition, the ally gains SP equal to the Black Paladin's for the next round. (WP 15 x 2 + level 30 = 60 damage to opponent or 60 health to ally and SP equal to Black Paladin's for next round)

3. HIT/BLACK HEAL - The Black Paladin attacks their target for damage equal to their weapon power added to their level. Optionally, they may heal an ally at the expense of 1 ether for the same amount. (WP 15 + level 30 = 45 damage to opponent or health to ally)

4. POWER COUNTER/DEFEND - The Black Paladin is hit with their opponent's attack (power of their shield decreases damage), but attacks right back with strength equal to their weapon power added to their shield power. Optionally, any attempt of healing fails, and the ally instead is given SP equal to the Black Paladin's for the next round. (Level 20 enemy - 10 SP, WP 15 + SP 10 = 10 damage to Black Paladin, 25 damage to opponent or SP equal to the Black Paladin's to ally for next round)

5. DEFENDED DAMAGE/NO HEAL - The Black Paladin is struck with the opponent's attack. Their shield power reduces the effect. Optionally, any attempt of healing fails. (Level 20 enemy - 10 SP = 10 damage to Black Paladin)

6. SPECIAL DAMAGE/NO HEAL - The Black Paladin is struck with the opponent's special skill. Optionally, any attempt of healing fails.

I feel like I may have overcomplicated it with the Defend thing, but overall I feel I've made it a decent enough departure from the normal Paladin. Criticism/suggestions?

Edited June 8, 2012 by CallMePie

[Sandy]

I don't think they are too similair, to be honest. the only similarity is that they are a music-based class, and have supportive songs. The mechanics are completely different.

Well, I do think they're too similar, although you have some great ideas for songs that could be later incorporated with the Minstrel's songs.

Here's a blank rule page if someone wants to give their class suggestion that extra flair.

[Capt.JohnPaul]

So far, I've hosted two quests with undead enemies. Would a class called Pharaoh interest anybody?

[LEGOman273]

Well, I do think they're too similar, although you have some great ideas for songs that could be later incorporated with the Minstrel's songs.

Here's a blank rule page if someone wants to give their class suggestion that extra flair.

*Snip*

Thank you!

So far, I've hosted two quests with undead enemies. Would a class called Pharaoh interest anybody?

It sounds interesting; let's see some stats.

[Capt.JohnPaul]

It sounds interesting; let's see some stats.

I'll post them soon. I just thought of the name so far.