Norrington Posted November 26, 2006 i reacently read phes' theory that both the gaurd and soldiers must both be british. but a problem. only broadside and de marteniet ccould be british because historicly,ofiicers and sailors wore blue, where as the lue soldiers could only be french because officers in the army and navy may have worn blue, but soldiers in brittain didn't, they wore red, so in essentials, phes' theory is only partially right, so only the certain figs are british. ------edit------ Broadside-British/french De martinet-british/french Imperial soldier grunts- French Admiral woodhouse- no faction, no officer of spefific country wore red, but he could be governer while broadside is say comodore, or vice admiral or someting....but that's only because governers didn't wear military uniforms.... red gaurd officer-british Imperial gaurd grunts- british Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ukdevilz Posted November 26, 2006 The British marines in the navy also wore blue. Only in the later years of the reforms in navy and army did all grunts wear red including expeditionary forces within the navy. Hence Imperial soldier grunts are British. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bonaparte Posted November 26, 2006 i reacently read phes' theory that both the gaurd and soldiers must both be british. but a problem.only broadside and de marteniet ccould be british... In which thread did you read this Sir Norrington? And who are broadside and de marteniet (maybe some characters from POTK?)? Well, I learned a new word: grunts :-) Maybe it is better to add this discussion to this thread: Imperial Guards: Bluecoat and redcoat uniforms, who they really are! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mister Phes Posted November 26, 2006 i reacently read phes' theory that both the gaurd and soldiers must both be british. but a problem.only broadside and de marteniet ccould be british because historicly,ofiicers and sailors wore blue, where as the lue soldiers could only be french because officers in the army and navy may have worn blue, but soldiers in brittain didn't, they wore red, so in essentials, phes' theory is only partially right, so only the certain figs are british. Broadside-British De martinet-british Imperial soldier grunts- French Admiral woodhouse- no faction, no officer of spefific country wore red, but he could be governer while broadside is say comodore, or vice admiral or someting....but that's only because governers didn't wear military uniforms.... red gaurd officer-british Imperial gaurd grunts- british What a crazy illogical organisation you army must have Norrington, have you been drinking rum prior to writing this? But I'll ask some questions anyway. Why would de Martinet be British? "de Martienet" is a French name after all.... Why would Admiral Woodhouse have no faction? In the all sets which include the Admiral Woodhouse mini-figure there are also at 2 Imperial Guard grunts which are British? What would be the point of including a neutral Admiral along side these 2 mini-figure? Why would The LEGO Company name the mini-"figure Admiral" Woodhouse if he was intended to be a governor, or the other "Governor" Broadside if he was a Commodore or Vice Admiral? It seems that you're making their names redundant. But I think what makes Norrington's interpretation ridiculous is sets containing blue Imperial Soldiers would contain both English and French factions. Furthermore, the only difference between a blue soldier and commander is the head and hat. So from my perspective this theory is just too inconsistent and confusing to be put in use. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scouty Posted November 27, 2006 Blue Coats and Red Coats are the same side and country, end of story. (At least for me. I think them both on the same sides.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Norrington Posted November 27, 2006 well, phes, about the wood house and broadside thing,broadside is wearing a uniform for a british uniform... where as woodhouse is not wearing a uniform from a country i know of... so lego could be mistaken... besides, de martinet dosn't have to be british, im just saying his uniform coul be britsh because he is wearing a blue uniforms if you don't call him by the french name, but he and broadside could be french because they wore blue uniforms for army and officers.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scouty Posted November 27, 2006 The names are really confsing me now, which is also the help of you guys, but that's because I don't know for sure who is who. If you could please list a picture of the person, and his name. On another note, of what I know of these two guys, or three, , is that isn't there really two guys? Or am I wrong? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Governor Broadside Posted November 27, 2006 In which thread did you read this Sir Norrington? Yes, which one? And who are broadside and de marteniet (maybe some characters from POTK?)? Those are names given to characters in this comic Broadside and De Martinet Well, I learned a new word: grunts :-) I never read it either before reading this thread either. :-P Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mister Phes Posted November 27, 2006 The names are really confsing me now, which is also the help of you guys, but that's because I don't know for sure who is who. Admiral Woodhouse Governor Broadside de Martinet well, phes, about the wood house and broadside thing,broadside is wearing a uniform for a british uniform... where as woodhouse is not wearing a uniform from a country i know of... so lego could be mistaken... The LEGO Company were never historically accurate and the uniforms could have any interpretation you want to give them. besides, de martinet dosn't have to be british, im just saying his uniform coul be britsh because he is wearing a blue uniforms if you don't call him by the french name, but he and broadside could be french because they wore blue uniforms for army and officers.... It quite plausible that Broadside, de Martinet and all the blue coat soldiers were French. There has been no formal statement from The LEGO Company to identify their faction/nationality. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Roger Posted November 27, 2006 about uniforms i think all of them are british...but "De martinet" sound like a french name... Both imperial guards and imperial soldiers are british...IS are the naval army and IG are simple marines...i read that fact in the old piratebricks.com forum... about Woodhouse...he doesn't appear in the comic and i don't remember seeing his name in a catalogue...can somebody tell me where appear the name of "Admiral Woodhouse"? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mister Phes Posted November 27, 2006 about uniforms i think all of them are british... I do too, but its purely subjective... but "De martinet" sound like a french name... That it does, but Broadside doesn't sound like a French name. However it is possible that de Martinet could be English with French ancestry. Just look at old Jean Luc Picard! Both imperial guards and imperial soldiers are british...IS are the naval army and IG are simple marines...i read that fact in the old piratebricks.com forum... Just because it was on piratebricks.com doesn't mean its accurate, although I posted the marine and naval uniforms in that thread on piratebricks.com to support the claim. about Woodhouse...he doesn't appear in the comic Admiral Woodhouse wasn't introduced until 1992, the comic was released in 1989... and i don't remember seeing his name in a catalogue...can somebody tell me where appear the name of "Admiral Woodhouse"? His name should appear in most 1992 UK and Australian catalogues. I'm looking at the B5 sized 1992 catalogue and his name is definitely in there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bonaparte Posted November 27, 2006 about uniforms i think all of them are british...but "De martinet" sound like a french name... You can use them how you like. Thats the beauty about these figs! They can be French line infantry, British line infantry or by changing the color of the epaulettes/legs they can become British naval officers, French light infantry, .... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Roger Posted November 27, 2006 Just because it was on piratebricks.com doesn't mean its accurate, although I posted the marine and naval uniforms in that thread on piratebricks.com to support the claim. I think that because the uniforms you posted are similar to IS...and French uniforms are more similar to some custom minifigs Admiral Woodhouse wasn't introduced until 1992, the comic was released in 1989... i know, you must know i have a lot of culture about lego pirates...i know all replies of pirate lego test! :-P His name should appear in most 1992 UK and Australian catalogues. I'm looking at the B5 sized 1992 catalogue and his name is definitely in there. thanks for the information Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ukdevilz Posted November 27, 2006 You can use them how you like. Thats the beauty about these figs!They can be French line infantry, British line infantry or by changing the color of the epaulettes/legs they can become British naval officers, French light infantry. Yes indeed! I prefer the Red grunts tho, as for the blue ones reminds me too much of the french. :-P Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mister Phes Posted November 28, 2006 I think that because the uniforms you posted are similar to IS...and French uniforms are more similar to some custom minifigs British Vs As you can see there is a lot more red in the French uniform, however I'm no historian so I cannot account for all the different uniforms used between 1600 and 1800. The uniforms were periodically revised or updated you see. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capn Frank Posted November 28, 2006 i think of the blue coats as french mainly for the french type symbols on their flags. you've got to admit, all the flags with the blue-coat sets have that french symbol thingy on them. granted, i have no qualms with mixing up the uniforms to distinguish higher or lower ranks on the british side or may even the french side (if i found out the french indeed have some predominately red uniforms). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mister Phes Posted November 28, 2006 You mean this Phred? Yes, France is known to have used the Fleur De Lis, however some British Monarchs have as well. And to add to the confusion I have seen pictures of some predominately red French uniforms in the past. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bonaparte Posted November 28, 2006 And to add to the confusion I have seen pictures of some predominately red French uniforms in the past. Indeed, the Napoleonic cavalry of the guard had a regiment of "Red Lancers". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mister Phes Posted November 28, 2006 I was thinking more along the lines of this with the red trousers. Check out Uniform Guide the at NapoleonGuide.com. They're only black and white illustrations but you'll get some idea of the uniforms for various European nations during the Napoleonic war. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Minifig Lecturer Posted November 28, 2006 I think they're Red and White, and Blue and White uniforms. End of story. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mister Phes Posted November 28, 2006 You haven't put much thought into it have you Mr Calvin? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capn Frank Posted November 28, 2006 You mean this Phred? Yes, France is known to have used the Fleur De Lis, however some British Monarchs have as well. And to add to the confusion I have seen pictures of some predominately red French uniforms in the past. Hmm. Interesting, then i guess anybody can do anything they want with the blue coats and red coats and mix them up. I had some qualms with ppl mixing them up, but not any more. In my little circle of lego land, we'll probably continue to call the blue flag with four "Fleur De Lis"s french Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bonaparte Posted November 28, 2006 I'm making a little table with some combinations to make historic correct mini-figs. I still have to expand it with some British naval figs. Feel free to give your idea's for expanding the table. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sting Posted November 28, 2006 I like that idea Bonaparte. It is unofficial, but as long as you provide historical backing, than those combinations can be the most historically accurate (without going custom) ways to make Lego figs! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Minifig Lecturer Posted November 28, 2006 You haven't put much thought into it have you Mr Calvin? Well yes, true, I haven't thought about it much but I think I have more than the close-minded "French" and "British" camps on this forum. Firstly, TLC calls these Governors and Admirals (eg G. Broadside, A. de whatever) by different names in different countries like China & Syria (for example) etc . In Syria, neither have a French nor a British name. The same goes with all lego sets. All names are regionalised not just translated, its called marketing. Secondly, in the 1700s and 1800s many armies wore blue and red coats with a waist belt and these headgear. The French and British didn't trademark these. The French and British didn't only wear these. The lego minfigure's dress is not detailed enough to match any army of the past. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
