LiamM32

2013 Train Sets

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Right. But single wagons don't need power functions elements, and they also don't need train tracks.

So, it should be no problem to create more single wagons.

It does create a problem, because standalone train products have not sold as well in the past. Therefore, less units are produced and the cost incurred is greater.

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Well, the last standalone train products have been released around a whole decade ago.

At that time, Lego hat trouble in general, so the conclusion is: at that time, not only standalone train products have been sold not well, but also other themes/sets, too.

So I think, it could be worth a try again. Today, Lego has lots of sets and themes that are selling welling. In general, their situation is much better than back then.

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On top of all that, in this day of Internet access on all sorts of different devices (PCs, smartphones etc), how hard is it to Google "Lego train tracks"??? So the tracks aren't in stores... so order them from Lego.com. Is it really that hard? If it is really that hard, how about putting a note on the train set box or instructions saying that track is available for order. When I was a kid a lot of our Lego was ordered via phone from the cataloge by my Grandfather... today it's so much easier!

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Well, the last standalone train products have been released around a whole decade ago.

At that time, Lego hat trouble in general, so the conclusion is: at that time, not only standalone train products have been sold not well, but also other themes/sets, too.

So I think, it could be worth a try again. Today, Lego has lots of sets and themes that are selling welling. In general, their situation is much better than back then.

While I agree with what you say, I have to point out that the other time LEGO released standalone train products was during the 12-volt Golden Age when LEGO's situation was pretty rosy. They also didn't sell all that well. However, for some reason that I could never understand, they were never distributed in North America. In the 80's, I used to drool over the cool LEGO train sets available in Europe knowing full well that I couldn't get them in any local store.

Dan-147

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Lego can make money selling train sets, Lego can make more money selling fire truck sets. So we see more of the latter and fewer of the former. To compensate, the train sets are mostly limited to high end items and Lego probably charges a premium on some of the parts (e.g., track).

Lego does appear to listen. Several years ago, on the Ambassador forums I had posted a long wish list of parts from the Lego train fans. Basically these were parts the train community wanted to see produced (they could appear in non-train sets, as long as they were available). Although I never got any feedback from Lego, many of these parts did eventually appear (off the top of my head the re-release of back 6x28 baseplates, the train windshield in other colors, the dark gray sliding doors). We've also seen parts deliberately aimed at the train fan come out in non-train sets (e.g., the black cowcatcher used as a radar dish). Whether Lego listened to the feedback from the ambassador forum or these were obvious choices, Lego is still sustaining the AFOL train fan within the constraints of their business model.

My guess is that Lego is ultimately aiming to use Cuusoo to serve niche markets like AFOL trains better (smaller run sets that still make whatever the target profit margin is).

In the mean time, Lego should offer a strictly straight track pack, and a strictly curved track pack at S@H. The easier it is for a customer to get the track they want, the more trains Lego will sell. These packs would sell on their own, but then for the person just starting out or the person giving a gift Lego should offer a couple of simple layouts on-line that are constructed with N of the straight packs, M of the curve packs, and P of the switch packs. These bundles would simply be a few more options in the trains category at S@H without being any additional space on the warehouse shelves.

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I know LEGO reads these threads, so I thought I'd share my thoughts. As others have pointed out, kids love trains which is why Thomas and Chuggington are so incredibly popular. My daughter would really love a LEGO train, but they are just so expensive that we haven't made the leap into LEGO trains yet. At well over $100US, they are in the 'big present' category - and we're talking 1-2 of those per year, per kid. Which puts them in competition with all of the other themes, and while we would love LEGO trains they aren't going to beat out the Friends Riding Camp or the Millenium Falcon with my daughter and son respectively. So the closest we've come to LEGO trains are the Public Transport Station and The Mine.

Contrast that with the sub $50 sets, and there are far more opportunities for the kids to get one of those throughout the year. We've got multiples of almost all of the City Great Vehicles, and many of the sub $50 City, Ninjago, Star Wars, Friends, etc. sets. I really wish that LEGO sold individual engines and rolling stock so that we could build our railroad slowly. I know that LEGO may have done this in the past, but I think LEGO is at an all time high in popularity right now, as are trains with kids. Kids have Chuggington, Thomas, Geotrax, and countless other trains to play with, and parents snap them up at the $20 mark. And sales of the smaller items drives sales of the big $100 plus items. I think LEGO could learn something from this model and I suspect sales would be better than predicted.

One more thing, more US designs would be greatly appreciated. The Maersk is great, but why not an Amtrak, Chicago El, New York Subway, or one of the commuter lines like the Chicago Metra? My kids would love to see engines sporting familiar logos like the Union Pacific badge.

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With the new year coming up I think they will be releasing a new train hopefully. Either in the beginning of 2013 or sometime in the summer. I really like the trains that TLG produce, but after a couple of years I think it's time to introduce a new train.

The Maersk train is really nice, it truly is, but we need a new train. Steam would be a really nice addition to everyone's collection. Take the Emerald Night for example. That thing sold like hot cakes for at least 2-3 years, if not more.

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With the new year coming up I think they will be releasing a new train hopefully. Either in the beginning of 2013 or sometime in the summer. I really like the trains that TLG produce, but after a couple of years I think it's time to introduce a new train.

The Maersk train is really nice, it truly is, but we need a new train. Steam would be a really nice addition to everyone's collection. Take the Emerald Night for example. That thing sold like hot cakes for at least 2-3 years, if not more.

Did you notice the new Horizon Express... ?????

(See other thread 'Horizon Express' in this forum.

Greetz LegoSjaak

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?

But Lego only has to re-use existing moulds (bricks) in order to create new train sets. This might improve the usage of the capacity of the moulds, and therefore should reduce costs of the corresponding bricks.

Other companies have often to build new moulds (nearly) from scratch when creating single carriages and goods wagons.

So, regarding costs, Lego should have a great advantage.

Instead, 7 (!) new firemen sets are announced for 2013 city lineup. Even 4 would have been enough, imho.

I think this observation clearly illustrates what most people forget when discussing the availability of LEGO trains. For a new train set to be successful, it not only has to sell well but better than any other idea that LEGO could make. Why sacrifice a new fire engine or police station for a poorer selling train carriage?

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For a new train set to be successful, it not only has to sell well but better than any other idea that LEGO could make. Why sacrifice a new fire engine or police station for a poorer selling train carriage?

But WHY ware train carriages selling worse than othe citiy stuff ?

For me, it sounds like a self-fulfilling prophecy: everyone hopes that train stuff is selling not that well. Result: it doesn't sell well.

As long as Lego does not offer these single items, no one can know how they will sell. There are lots of consumptions, but nothing more.

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Well, good 'ol times back in 1990s... Does anyone know how well they did sell then?

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But WHY ware train carriages selling worse than othe citiy stuff ?

For me, it sounds like a self-fulfilling prophecy: everyone hopes that train stuff is selling not that well. Result: it doesn't sell well.

As long as Lego does not offer these single items, no one can know how they will sell. There are lots of consumptions, but nothing more.

The fact is the last time Lego did sell individual wagons with the My Own Train theme, Santa Fe Super Chief coaches and the TTX Double Stack Container Car they did not sell well, the only exception was when they were put on clearance after sitting on the S@H site for over 2 years and they were mainly snapped up by the truckload by resellers on EBay and Bricklink, those resellers then pushed the prices up for those items well above their original retail price.

Rather than complaining about the lack of train sets have you ever thought about making your own, there are plenty of ways to source parts at reasonable prices to make trains compared to 10 years ago, also with building your own trains it's generally cheaper compared to buying sets and you can make exactly what you want plus it brings a great deal of personal satisfaction that you did it yourself. About 9 years ago when I got into building Lego 9v trains I was rather dissatisfied with what was available at the time, I also had a look at older sets and decided for what they are they were way to expensive and to be frank just didn't have the detail that I was after, I then decided to build my own designs and was able to make what I wanted and to be honest it's the best move I have ever made.

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The fact is the last time Lego did sell individual wagons with the My Own Train theme, Santa Fe Super Chief coaches and the TTX Double Stack Container Car they did not sell well,

As I said above, all this happened nearly one decade (!) ago. Within times that were not good for Lego in general.

Now we are living in 2012, not in 2002 or 2004 anymore. Times have changed, today Lego releases lots of (obsolte) firemen sets, things like Monster Fighters and "Lord of the Rings" stuff.

Within these circumstances, no one can tell me that it should be impossible to release 2 or 3 additonal single train items.

Have a look at Brickset: from 2000 to 2005, each year a total of ~ 400 new sets have been released.

After that, these numbers increased continuoulsy, reaching a peak of 655 (!) new sets for 2012.

Compared to the 80ies and early 90ies, this amount is 6x higher than then.

So, it should be no problem, if 2 or 3 of 655 sets would be additional train items, instead of other stuff.

Even if they would't break new selling records, I am conviced that some of these 655 sets are selling even worse... so the selling numbers are no valid reason.

It is just a matter of if they want to offer a better (full) product range, or not.

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As I said above, all this happened nearly one decade (!) ago. Within times that were not good for Lego in general.

Now we are living in 2012, not in 2002 or 2004 anymore. Times have changed, today Lego releases lots of (obsolte) firemen sets, things like Monster Fighters and "Lord of the Rings" stuff.

Within these circumstances, no one can tell me that it should be impossible to release 2 or 3 additonal single train items.

So, it should be no problem, if 2 or 3 of 655 sets would be additional train items, instead of other stuff.

Even if they would't break new selling records, I am conviced that some of these 655 sets are selling even worse... so the selling numbers are no valid reason.

It is just a matter of if they want to offer a better (full) product range, or not.

Lego was selling just as well back then as it does now, the fact is individual pieces of rolling stock do not sell well, the hardest thing about trains is that due to the vast differences of railway equipment around the world it is very hard to find a set that has universal appeal, what maybe highly popular with Europeans may have little appeal with people in the US and Vice Versa, the Santa Fe Super Chief was a classic example. Take my advice if you are not happy with what is on offer make your own, I have quite a substantial collection of locomotives and rolling stock which are built to a higher standard compared to the typical Lego train sets and I am far more happier that I went down that path rather than collecting standard sets.

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agreed,

i find tons of enjoyment out of building what i need and want, not always being directed by the hands of "the company"....

although, one thing i would love to see is a train set like the 7710 back from the 1980's,an unpowered steam tank loco, 2 coaches with doors, a circle of track and a station.

it could mean that little "jonny" (yeah peter, i like that as a personification of the lego market, hehe....), could have a complete set, and that if he saved his money, or waited till christmas, his parents could get a Power Functions kit and some straights and flex to add to his train set.

and honestly, kids dont always need a super, dooper, fancy all electric R/C train in their possession. i've babysat quite a few kids that are totally lego mad. and for some reason, they'd rather push the lego trains about than use a battery RC train.

it's just kids want to be hands on with lego.

and think about the cost difference, you're quite literally looking at axing $60 from a potentially massive price that would put parents off buying such a big set just by ditching the power functions.

it'd be the easiest way to get a lego train set. not to mention the most cost effective (no liscence, no new parts, alot of standard practice building)

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Trainset, everything in the box = christmas or birthday purchase for a child.

Creator expert set = for the train nerds, already have track and stuff.

As a parent the first makes sense to me. And as an AFOL, the second makes sense. Want add-ons? Build them. It's a construction toy.

TLG dropped the crossing set released at the same time as the first PF trains. That should tell you something about how well individual train add-on sets sell.

Edited by andythenorth

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Trainset, everything in the box = christmas or birthday purchase for a child.

Creator expert set = for the train nerds, already have track and stuff.

As a parent the first makes sense to me.

As a parent, the first does NOT make sense to me.

Why ?

Because a train set, is only the beginning of a train layout. If the child likes it, it wants to have more.

Today, the only chance to get more train stuff, is to buy another (expensive) complete train set.

Again, if the child likes trains: what about his/her aunts, uncles, grandmas, grandpas ? There are no smaller train sets that could be used as christmas or birthday gifts.

Therefore, I would decide NOT to buy a train set as a christmas gift for a child, because of the very limited possibilities to expand the train theme.

Instead, I would buy a set from a theme, which offers the possibility to extend it more easily.

Have a look at ebay: lots of sellers are buying lots of 3677 and 7939 sets... in order to put them apart and sell all the wagons individually.

This seems to be a very profitable business - so it seems as if there is a considerable demand for those items.

Last christmas, my two nephews received 7938 and 7939. And their dad told me and my mum (their grandma) it would be great if we could buy some additional train stuff.

Hm... what to buy ? A Maersk train ? No good idea. So, I bought two single wagons from a 3677 set, and grandma bought the railway station.

But what to buy for this year's christmas ? Maybe another single wagon from an ebay 3677 slaughterman ?

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As a parent, the first does NOT make sense to me.

Why ?

Because a train set, is only the beginning of a train layout. If the child likes it, it wants to have more.

Today, the only chance to get more train stuff, is to buy another (expensive) complete train set.

Again, if the child likes trains: what about his/her aunts, uncles, grandmas, grandpas ? There are no smaller train sets that could be used as christmas or birthday gifts.

Therefore, I would decide NOT to buy a train set as a christmas gift for a child, because of the very limited possibilities to expand the train theme.

Instead, I would buy a set from a theme, which offers the possibility to extend it more easily.

I agree that it is a bit of a nuisance now, to get more rolling stock for trains. I have built my own, as well as purchased extra cars from sets. Had I not been in my Dark Age during the Sante Fe and TTX cars, I'd probably have a lot more. As for Grandparents, Aunts, Uncles, etc, it always seemed to be confusing to them on what exact set to get at a store or how to order. Call mine G.parents old fashioned (I know not all are), but they still don't have a computer or care to (gift cards, cash/check and those f*****g sweaters, everyone gets, was easier). And from what I remember, there wasn't much of the rolling stock, if any, available at the toy stores, at least not the Wal-Mart, TRU, etc, near me. I relied on B-day and Christmas, S@H gifts from my parents for my early 9V stuff.

Seeing my much younger brother's friends grow up with LEGO trains, I noticed that they didn't care how they're train's stock looked. They just liked to make them as long as they could. I can't imagine many kids would, I know I didn't. They seemed to rather get one of each train available and lash them together. Maybe it seems easier or a better deal for some parents to get multi-cars and track in one box, instead of getting one car at a time. Just my opinion :classic:

Have a look at ebay: lots of sellers are buying lots of 3677 and 7939 sets... in order to put them apart and sell all the wagons individually.

This seems to be a very profitable business - so it seems as if there is a considerable demand for those items.

On the contrary, unless you're selling Maersk stuff, the sellers aren't making as much as you'd think, at least in the U.S. I did that with a couple of the 7638 Cargo Trains and made about $10-15 over MSRP. If you do a rough average, dividing sale price avg. and number of item's per train, they are within $10 bucks. At least that's what I noticed buying and selling that way. Once they are discontinued, that may change, definitely with the Maersk :classic:

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Although TLG could probably sell a lot of sets with train accessories, and make money from them, there is a fierce competition for shelf space in stores these days. If TLG was to replace a mainstream fire truck set with a train carriage, it would not just have to sell well, it would have to sell REALLY well. Lego brand stores can provide a wider range of products, but there is a limit even there, not the least from a logistics point of view. However, it should be possible to cater to niche markets through S@H...

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As a parent, the first does NOT make sense to me.

Why ?

Because a train set, is only the beginning of a train layout. If the child likes it, it wants to have more.

Today, the only chance to get more train stuff, is to buy another (expensive) complete train set.

Again, if the child likes trains: what about his/her aunts, uncles, grandmas, grandpas ? There are no smaller train sets that could be used as christmas or birthday gifts.

Therefore, I would decide NOT to buy a train set as a christmas gift for a child, because of the very limited possibilities to expand the train theme.

Last christmas, my two nephews received 7938 and 7939. And their dad told me and my mum (their grandma) it would be great if we could buy some additional train stuff.

Hm... what to buy ? A Maersk train ? No good idea. So, I bought two single wagons from a 3677 set, and grandma bought the railway station.

But what to buy for this year's christmas ? Maybe another single wagon from an ebay 3677 slaughterman ?

The fact is for the vast bulk of parents who buy a Lego train set for their children they are doing so to supplement the child's Lego City collection, most parents aren't overly concerned with trying to make a serious attempt of having a Lego train layout as trains are just seen as and add on.

With your nephews have you thought about buying a good selection of train parts from S@H or Bricklink as a gift and showing them how to make trains, I know with kids that standard sets don't stay intact for long and tend to be pulled apart and made into something else, I know this from personal experience watching my son in action. I have given him the Emerald Night, 10173 Xmas Train and 7897 Passenger Train as well as some other train parts including the RC Train base from 7898, all of these now form a massive jumble of parts that reside somewhere in one of his Lego containers. Kids derive a great deal of pleasure with making their own creations and in many respects this is one of the core principles of the Lego company that being that there are boundless building possibilities and that you are only limited by your imagination.

Edited by Steinkopf

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The comment on a full train set being a Christmas/Birthday present is true.....as a starter set.....with all started train hobbies with a starter set and built on to it. :classic:

Besides this topic is 2013 trains and all we have the Horizon Express....should there not be a topic on it's own speaking the pros and cons of full set vs. track/rollingstock sets on their own ? :wink:

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agreed,

i find tons of enjoyment out of building what i need and want, not always being directed by the hands of "the company"....

although, one thing i would love to see is a train set like the 7710 back from the 1980's,an unpowered steam tank loco, 2 coaches with doors, a circle of track and a station.

it could mean that little "jonny" (yeah peter, i like that as a personification of the lego market, hehe....), could have a complete set, and that if he saved his money, or waited till christmas, his parents could get a Power Functions kit and some straights and flex to add to his train set.

and honestly, kids dont always need a super, dooper, fancy all electric R/C train in their possession. i've babysat quite a few kids that are totally lego mad. and for some reason, they'd rather push the lego trains about than use a battery RC train.

it's just kids want to be hands on with lego.

and think about the cost difference, you're quite literally looking at axing $60 from a potentially massive price that would put parents off buying such a big set just by ditching the power functions.

it'd be the easiest way to get a lego train set. not to mention the most cost effective (no liscence, no new parts, alot of standard practice building)

This thread really hits on one problem with the lego trains, unlike most themes, they are not a system. If you exclude the level crossing, station and things that are not really trains, lego does not have a $5 set, a $20 set and so forth. The cheapest train is $120.

I doubt that situation will change any time soon, but I still like the idea of making the low end train set be unpowered (then offer a S@H bundle with all of the parts you'd need to power it). I know my kids much prefer pushing trains around then running them remotely. Save money on the set by excluding the PF and make more later when someone upgrades at the retail PF prices. Do double duty by putting enough generic train bits in here (couplers, wheels, bogie plates, and bases for three cars) that it could also serve as a train parts pack too (i.e., don't cut costs by cutting out wheels or couplers, then such a set could also replace the train base set ca 2000 for AFOLs). Even better if the track were separate too (buy a S@H bundle of track packs comprised of N straight packs and M curve packs, etc to make a loop). Though I suspect the PF and track are "value added" upgrades that don't actually cost Lego that much when included in a set.

You could address the different regional issues of trains by making it a 3 in 1 Creator set.

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Because a train set, is only the beginning of a train layout. If the child likes it, it wants to have more.

Today, the only chance to get more train stuff, is to buy another (expensive) complete train set.

Again, if the child likes trains: what about his/her aunts, uncles, grandmas, grandpas ? There are no smaller train sets that could be used as christmas or birthday gifts.

Therefore, I would decide NOT to buy a train set as a christmas gift for a child, because of the very limited possibilities to expand the train theme.

Instead, I would buy a set from a theme, which offers the possibility to extend it more easily.

TLG making more small add on sets won't help this though. The large retailers only want to stock quick selling items. Even though expansion track packs are available from LEGO most retailers don't stock them for very long after they are released. Pretty much the same situation that made the Santa Fe coaches sell really badly. I was actively looking for them while they were available, but never saw them in a shop.

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I remember when I was a kid and bought the railway express. That train was so generic, but so awesome at the same time. I wish they made trains like the Metro and Santa Fe trains again. Those were the best trains.

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I have bought the LEGO trains as whilst they are not that detailed they are the LEGO Sets and there is something about owning them. However most of my train stuff and certainly the rolling stock I have built myself.

I agree that lots of kids prefer to push trains around. My mate came around with his young son the other day and even though we showed him the remote he wanted tio push the engine about the track.

Lots of people nowadays do not look upon LEGO as a construction toy but more of a model, when i have been in my local toy shop i have more than once heard adult complaining that when they were young you could build anything from LEGO but now all you can do is built the set. Well i guess that just shows a lack of imagination.

What i would like to see though to make it easier to build you own stuff is a set that has train wheels and buffers and maybe a baseplate of cowcatcher or some other train stuff, just like you get the ones that have wheels or roof bricks or doors. whilst they would not be wagon sets in themselves they would demonstrate that these could be built with normal bricks and these one or two other parts in this box. It may then inspire more people to build their own. it would also get over the issue of it being a European or American train as people would take the basic wheels and what have you and build in the style they like or are familiar with.

Edited by Hrw-Amen

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