LOTR & The Hobbit 2012

[Haltiamieli]

Neither Galadriel nor Arwen did anything exciting that would make a good playset for kids

Considering that the Hobbit movies are going to show the actions of the White Council, there's a remote chance that we could have a set of Galadriel and others laying Dol Guldur to waste in the Hobbit wave.

[DaleDVM]

I wouldn't worry too much about the ugly colours. If you look at both Helms Deep and Weathertop in that video, they use the new "brick brick", which is currently only available in a couple of colours, and it looks to me like they've just thrown the medium dark flesh ( dont crucify me if I'm wrong! ) version thats currently available.

No crucifiction. This thread is long and don't expect everyone to read every word.

In an earlier post I mentioned that The helms deep mockup photo was done earlier than the Uruk army mockup. In the Uruk photo the med dark flesh brick piece is replaced by light bley ones. Also the new horse mold is in that photo as well. With Helms deep I think the med dark flesh bricks will be replaced by the light bley ones and theodens horse will be of the new type as well. Note how in that photo they take an normal molded horse and have him posed like he is rearing up on his back legs. I don't think the new bricks and horses were ready in time to make that photo.

I find this also very interesting as it shows how the designers have to adapt as they go along. The process has to be adapted as new pieces are getting ready for the sets.

Edited December 20, 2011 by DaleDVM

[Blondie-Wan]

I want Galadriel just for so Cate Blanchette can join the two minifigs club!

Mm, good point (though I'd personally call it the two characters club; a lot of the characters in the club have had more than just two minifigures - Han Solo, Luke Skywalker, Wicket, Indiana Jones, Doctor Octopus, the Joker, and others have all had multiple LEGO incarnations of their own, never mind all the different LEGO versions of all LEGO-represented characters portrayed by a given actor).

[Ash]

Mm, good point (though I'd personally call it the two characters club; a lot of the characters in the club have had more than just two minifigures - Han Solo, Luke Skywalker, Wicket, Indiana Jones, Doctor Octopus, the Joker, and others have all had multiple LEGO incarnations of their own, never mind all the different LEGO versions of all LEGO-represented characters portrayed by a given actor).

Yeah, two-characters makes more sense. The only confirmed addition so far is Orlando Bloom I guess? I had assumed John Rhys Davies would be as well but I was shocked... SHOCKED to find they never made a Sallah figure for Indiana Jones! And, maybe, in future sets Cate Blanchette and Christopher Lee. Can't think of anyone else.

[Khorne]

Considering that the Hobbit movies are going to show the actions of the White Council, there's a remote chance that we could have a set of Galadriel and others laying Dol Guldur to waste in the Hobbit wave.

I doubt it. The actions of the White Council are never explicitely described in the book, as far as I recall the siege of Dol Guldur was only mentioned. That taken into account, I don't think the event will play a big role in the movies, so why make sets of an (to a normal audience) unimportant event? Most kids will just watch the movies and then buy/want the Lego sets of stuff that happened in the movie. I don't think they'll really bother reading the actual book to know about other things that happen in the story.

[giggitygoo]

Wow! I am so excited about these sets, as a huge fan I completely love the look of the new minifigs (from what I can see) and the sets look promising. I can't believe how accurate Helm's Deep is!!!!

[Blondie-Wan]

Yeah, two-characters makes more sense. The only confirmed addition so far is Orlando Bloom I guess? I had assumed John Rhys Davies would be as well but I was shocked... SHOCKED to find they never made a Sallah figure for Indiana Jones! And, maybe, in future sets Cate Blanchette and Christopher Lee. Can't think of anyone else.

Yes, the absence of even one official Sallah minifigure still stings. Since you bring up Christopher Lee, I'll go ahead and note that he's also played a role in the Indiana Jones universe, as the Count Ottokar von Czernin in an episode of The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles (although it's probably unlikely TLG would do sets from the show even if the theme resumes, and in particular I'm guessing they'd avoid doing real-world historical figures like the Count - but wouldn't it be cool?)

Back on topic, I'm guessing the Hobbit / Lord of the Rings theme will run for at least one more wave after the one accompanying the second Hobbit movie (and possibly two or three), and thus waves for:

• Summer 2012
  
• Late 2012 (new movie wave)
  
• Summer 2013
  
• Late 2013 (new movie wave)
  
• Summer 2014
  
• Winter 2014 / 2015
  

... and possibly a little farther, if it proves popular enough (and certainly if further movies based on more of Tolkien's Middle-earth books are announced soon enough). Could it go on as long as Star Wars? Mm, perhaps. Certainly if more such movies do get made it'll help its chances, but whether it really could run as long as Star Wars has, with as many sets each year (particularly in the sort of variety Star Wars has gotten - UCS sets, minis, promotional minifigures, convention exclusives, etc.) is a big question mark. I think it'll boil down to whether Peter Jackson, Warner Bros. et al. continue to mine Tolkien's books for more movies...

Edited December 20, 2011 by Blondie-Wan

[Supersonic]

Could it go on as long as Star Wars? Mm, perhaps. Certainly if more such movies do get made it'll help its chances, but whether it really could run as long as Star Wars has, with as many sets each year (particularly in the sort of variety Star Wars has gotten - UCS sets, minis, promotional minifigures, convention exclusives, etc.) is a big question mark. I think it'll boil down to whether Peter Jackson, Warner Bros. et al. continue to mine Tolkien's books for more movies...

Don't forget that LSW also has the Clone Wars Series and the upcoming 3D movies, which all guarantee that kids will be interested in Star Wars. Also, the number of vehicles and other possible sets is just way bigger in SW than in LOTR - I remember that that was the main argument brought up when people discussed why TLG chose to take up the SW licence in 1999 instead of LOTR. The LOTR movies definitely have enough material for 3-4 more waves, and the Hobbit movies will each spawn at least one entire wave without a doubt. But the 13+ years that LSW has been going on are unmatchable for LOTR, I'm afraid. Unless, of course, we will see more movie adaptions of Tolkien's work, which I doubt.

Back on topic, I'm guessing the Hobbit / Lord of the Rings theme will run for at least one more wave after the one accompanying the second Hobbit movie (and possibly two or three), and thus waves for:

* Summer 2012

* Late 2012 (new movie wave)

* Summer 2013

* Late 2013 (new movie wave)

* Summer 2014

* Winter 2014 / 2015

Let's hope so! There are at least a couple of sets begging to be made - Minas Tirith and Osgiliath being the most obvious ones.

[Haltiamieli]

I doubt it. The actions of the White Council are never explicitely described in the book, as far as I recall the siege of Dol Guldur was only mentioned. That taken into account, I don't think the event will play a big role in the movies, so why make sets of an (to a normal audience) unimportant event? Most kids will just watch the movies and then buy/want the Lego sets of stuff that happened in the movie. I don't think they'll really bother reading the actual book to know about other things that happen in the story.

As I said, the White Council and its actions against Dol Guldur will be featured in the movie even if they are only mentioned passingly and off-screen in the book. That has been confirmed by Jackson, and they have cast Cate Blanchett and Christopher Lee to reprise their roles (neither of which feature in the book) from the trilogy.* Exactly how much of the White Council doings we will see is still anyone's guess. But knowing Jackson he will not waste an opportunity for an epic action scene? It is not known either whether the scenes will be in the first or the second movie, or both.

*It was even rumoured that Benedict Cumberbatch would do a double-role as the voices of both Smaug and Necromancer (aka. Sauron)... which would mean that the Necromancer would be speaking somewhere somehow. But I'm not sure if that rumour has been confirmed or debunked yet.

P.S. Only a few hours till the first teaser trailer hits the interwebs! 7 pm PST.

[Ash]

Yeah, I can't see anything close to Star Wars happening. At best I think Harry Potter would be the best case scenario comparison, but even then that seems unlikely to me. The Lord of the Rings simply doesn't have as big an all ages fanbase as some of the other licenses. It's obviously popular and has it's fans, but i just don't see the same sort of cross-over with LEGO fans.

It also lacks one of the major factors in the success of the Star Wars line: Vehicles. Playsets, locations and characters are all well and good. But the vehicles or Star Wars opens it up to a much bigger market of people who just like to build and display iconic spaceships and they make up a massive part of that range.

[jmagaletta]

I dont think that anyone has mentioned it yet. But what I am really waiting for/looking for is a Sauron minifig mace and all.

[sharky]

Yeah, I can't see anything close to Star Wars happening. At best I think Harry Potter would be the best case scenario comparison, but even then that seems unlikely to me. The Lord of the Rings simply doesn't have as big an all ages fanbase as some of the other licenses. It's obviously popular and has it's fans, but i just don't see the same sort of cross-over with LEGO fans.

It also lacks one of the major factors in the success of the Star Wars line: Vehicles. Playsets, locations and characters are all well and good. But the vehicles or Star Wars opens it up to a much bigger market of people who just like to build and display iconic spaceships and they make up a massive part of that range.

I have to agree about the limited vehicles in LOTR. To be fair, though, they could still do things like siege towers, battering rams, mobile catapults, 1 or 2 ships, and maybe a canoe set. I also look to the Ninjago dragons for inspiration for Lego to do a flying beast that the Nazgul use to fly around on. I wonder about trying to do a brick built elephant perhaps on a scale of the AT-AT, but it may not be popular enough to justify such a large and expensive set.

[Darth Yogi]

I must say I'm very excited about this. I the Uruk-hai attack set. So many new awesome molds, like for their helmets .

[Ash]

I have to agree about the limited vehicles in LOTR. To be fair, though, they could still do things like siege towers, battering rams, mobile catapults, 1 or 2 ships, and maybe a canoe set. I also look to the Ninjago dragons for inspiration for Lego to do a flying beast that the Nazgul use to fly around on. I wonder about trying to do a brick built elephant perhaps on a scale of the AT-AT, but it may not be popular enough to justify such a large and expensive set.

While there are some possible vehicles and creatures it's more that they would be part of larger sets rather than iconic must-have items themselves. An aging Star Wars fan who still sees LEGO as a kid's toy he's no longer interested in might walk past a landspeeder and think "sweet, that's totally going on my desk" and buy it (because that's exactly what I did when Star Wars Lego first launched). But a generic siege tower won't have the same effect and appeal. The Nazgul mount (Fell Beast) could be damn cool though. And of course there's always the Balrog (PLEASE LEGO GROUP PLEASE!)

Edited December 20, 2011 by Ash

[Khorne]

As I said, the White Council and its actions against Dol Guldur will be featured in the movie even if they are only mentioned passingly and off-screen in the book. That has been confirmed by Jackson, and they have cast Cate Blanchett and Christopher Lee to reprise their roles (neither of which feature in the book) from the trilogy.* Exactly how much of the White Council doings we will see is still anyone's guess. But knowing Jackson he will not waste an opportunity for an epic action scene? It is not known either whether the scenes will be in the first or the second movie, or both.

Oh okay, sorry . I'm must've missed that post in the plethora of posts here. Thanks for pointing out .

[sharky]

While there are some possible vehicles and creatures it's more that they would be part of larger sets rather than iconic must-have items themselves. An aging Star Wars fan who still sees LEGO as a kid's toy he's no longer interested in might walk past a landspeeder and think "sweet, that's totally going on my desk" and buy it (because that's exactly what I did when Star Wars Lego first launched). But a generic siege tower won't have the same effect and appeal. The Nazgul mount (Fell Beast) could be damn cool though. And of course there's always the Balrog (PLEASE LEGO GROUP PLEASE!)

True, I don't think many of those ideas save for a ship and Fell Beast could warrant an actual set to itself. I was thinking that the Balrog scene does need a set though. I mean whenever I think of The Fellowship of the Ring movie the first scene that comes to mind is that. "YOU SHALL NOT PASS!" Always gives me goosebumps

Edited December 20, 2011 by sharky

[Elander]

I would say we got orcs in the Moria set. Is there any difference explained between "Moria goblins" and "Mordor orcs" in the movies or books? I had the impression that they were simply generic orcs, and only Uruk-hai were in a class apart.

The difference between Orcs and Moria Goblins is huge: See it for yourself!

Here we see Moria Goblins

Here we see Mordor Orcs

I don't believe that LEGO put Mordor Orcs into that Mines of Moria set.

[ka.lego]

This just amuses me! The sets are as expected. Every time a new license theme is announced people always have absurdly high expectations and then as soon as the first pics are shown they all moan that it's not all that. Really? Come on, what were you expecting. ... To be honest, I don't see what the big complaint is. We already have all the pieces we need to create Middle Earth, there are plenty of excellent LOTR mocs out there that proove that. BUT, we don't have the official LOTR figures. Well, we do now....

So yeah, I'm happy with this theme and will enjoy the new Parts and figs. With or without this theme, LOTR is still buildable anyway.

As I try to catch up and pour over the many pages of missed comments, this was sums quite a bit up for me. I'm generally a critical person and appreciate dialogue, but I have to admit that sometimes things on ANY Internet forum could be more thoughtful, but again, that's THE INTERNET so one learns to be patient and accept it for what it is. I think there have been some good suggestions here for improvement that I'd love to see as well (new molds for weapons and armor, white Nazgul on Weathertop) but ultimately I'm super excited that this is happening at all and am pretty impressed by the (prelim, rough, proof-of-concept) pics. I love the idea that the Battlepack/army building set is an expansion of the Helms Deep scene. It would be great if there were obvious connection points to the structures to extend a wall or something, but even without it would be great to just get parts that help build that setting and scene. I hope future waves incorporate this idea too, because of the scale of the battles/scenes in the books/films.

I don't think anyone should expect the kind of success that SW had.... SW has the SW:TCW, an ongoing (and very popular) series to sustain it....

Yeah. It's important to remember Lucas had the foresight to hold onto the licensing / merchandising rights of his film rather than the standard practice of asking for more points, etc. At the time the studios could care less about merchandising and Lucas redefined the game. (And many of our childhoods in the process.) So, in my opinion, the SW property ended up being more than just about films and story, and also becam a way to sell a brand (and toys from that brand), which drove the introduction of all sorts of characters and vehicles and playsets in the movies knowing that they'd end up making for cool toys later on. Tolkien created Middle Earth in a very different historical moment that didn't foresee things (couldn't) the way a pop culturally savvy kid from Modesto, CA who was repeatedly burned by Hollywood and corporations like Lucas could. And of course Peter Jackson isnt trying to make a franchise, rather he's moreso trying to pay homage to Tolkien's work in a new art form. So yeah, we're limited. It can't really be a SW, but it's the closest thing out there in terms of scale and scope and a comparable (overlapping) following who will throw down $$$ and €€€ and £££ and ¥¥¥ on some ABS plastic. As I said when this theme was still a hotly debated rumor, it makes perfect sense that TLG went after this license. With HP done, they needed a strong license that will bring in sales and potentially new customers. POTC, PoP, Toy Story, and Cars are all well and good, but just don't have the $$$ potential of the big three: SW, LOTR, and HP. Oh and they were already smart to grab Super Heroes (smart to combine Marvel and DC in one line for many reasons). Now that it's here, let's enjoy it while it lasts, because after that, there aren't a whole lot of properties with the same global appeal to both kids and adults. Star Trek is the only one that jumps out at me, but that's always been a mess in terms of merchandising and the brands been pretty diluted.

But seriously there does seem to be a bias towards the first 2 books/films (Shelob excepted) in these sets meaning there are plenty of other scenes to plunder for later years....

Yes, I hope so. I really want to see the battle outside Mordor. An oliphant with soldiers set? A Nazgul on a flying dragon beasty? There will definitely be good things to come.

And your last comment about your non-LEGO coworkers eager to buy sums up my earlier point about why this license is a huge coup for LEGO, business-wise.

As for the horse, if you have it horizontal it'll look like its running instead of pranching(?) looks like atleas one leg would connect to a stud that way

Brilliant catch! Hope thats the case. I think TLG made a good move on this. It makes many of us longtime FOLs feel like we're getting something new rather than just new printing or colors as well as stresses the action-oriented nature of this property.

To fives: It is wrong of any of us to make MOCing assumptions. I suppose since this is an AFOL site where a lot of people do MOC we tend to assume too much. I am hoping everyone likes the final products that come out!

Important point. It's always remember that TLG has to design these things with its target audience in mind who, judging from my nephew and his friends, don't do much other than build the sets as designed and then play. For those of us who then end up doing a lot of MOCing and modding, it's good to keep that in mind when judging any sets. We have to realize its not about us anymore and that we're a (key) secondary market. Besides, if you know you're gonna just MOC, loot for parts, or mod, then I suppose you're not expecting TLG to change much and are jus happy to get new sets to fuel your work, no?

I prefer to reserve final judgement until high definition images are available but these watermarked images certainly haven't dampened my enthusiasm. I do think Helms Deep looks like the stand out set at this stage with an impressive, imposing looking structure and a good variety of mini-figures. I will certainly be looking to pick up a copy when the theme is released next summer.

Said better than I would have.

Oh and on the question re: why LOTR is in Historical... Bwahahahaha!!! Yeah, that whole POTC based on actual events exchange scares/amuses me. But those things aside, Castle being here to begin with is troublesome. It seems to me to be a hold out from the days when TLG purported to do more historical adventure type things (again scary to me), back when there were the "Wild" West things and the Castle stuff didn't have witches, skeleton armies, and dragons. But that was a log time ago. Wondering why this remains the nomenclature? That Unofficial Minifig Collectors Guide tried to update the theme categorization recently and it made the same mistake. I know thats too crazy to think of the changes for many, so whatever, historical (ugh) it is.

[SpiderSpaceman]

I would say we got orcs in the Moria set. Is there any difference explained between "Moria goblins" and "Mordor orcs" in the movies or books? I had the impression that they were simply generic orcs, and only Uruk-hai were in a class apart.

I haven't read it recently enough for particulars, but yes, there was a memorably made distinction.

[On Stranger Tides]

Just a recap.... of what "I" want...

Goblin

Orc

Uruk

Edited December 20, 2011 by On Stranger Tides

[TheLegoDr]

Thanks for the pictures. I never noticed a difference between the goblin and the orc. Of course, the Uruk were different. I can't wait to see final renditions of them in lego form!

I am not as well versed in Tolkien mythology as others, so I will be happy with basically anything resembling the creatures/characters.

Also, as far as Gandalf is concerned, I agree about a new beard and hat. But maybe they could do a wizard hat with the hair attached like in PotC. Granted, I much prefer being able to remove the hat to use on other people, that would be a new mold with an already present idea. It might add something to it.

I'd also love to see something for Boromir to carry his shield on his back instead of always holding it. I thought that would be really neat to see. I rewatched all of the movies a few months ago because of the hint of a license so that just came to mind.

And unless I missed something, by looking at those pictures we will get green orcs in Helm's Deep, reddish uruks in the Uruk army, and dark brown goblins in Moria. So isn't that what everyone wants?

And unfortunately, everytime I look at those pictures, I like the prelim sets even more. The reason I say unfortunately is due to my bank account!

To add to my post about 10 pages back, it is a nice addition to the dwarf being taller than the hobbits just by use of beard and helmet parts. Good thinking on TLG's part.

I really hope the horse mold does allow it to stand up or go horizontal for a galloping appearance.

[jmagaletta]

Just a recap.... of what "I" want...

Goblin

Orc

Uruk

Mordor/Sauron also had Uruk Hai. They weren't only bred by Saruman. Goblin/Orc are interchangable. The Goblins in moria are just orcs that have adapted to life in the dark of the caves. All of this can be found on the Lord of the Rings wikia.

[fred67]

I wouldn't worry too much about the ugly colours. If you look at both Helms Deep and Weathertop in that video, they use the new "brick brick", which is currently only available in a couple of colours, and it looks to me like they've just thrown the medium dark flesh ( dont crucify me if I'm wrong! ) version thats currently available.

While as an AFOL I'm not a huge fan of the Weathertop set, I think from a kids point of view its actually pretty well done. They've managed to squeeze both the top of the hill and the dell where they camped into one very small set, so its got a good amount of playability for the size. The use of the micro figs is also a good compromise vs giant statues for keeping detail while not blowing the price.

What's the new "brick brick?"

I don't think, given the obvious size limitation, that they should have even bothered doing two levels as opposed to one level with a rock pieces/ruins in a circular pattern.

[Etzel]

What's the new "brick brick?"

This one:

[fred67]

This one:

Holy %$#uj9e!@$! Why have I not seen this before?!?! I feel like I've been living under a rock... what sets is this in?

Oh... sorry to go off topic. ... uh... go LOTR!!

EDIT: Never mind... Etzel cool and courteous enough to have made it a BL link! Thanks!

Edited December 20, 2011 by fred67