Red Moon 2: Chapter 8

[Tamamono]

I'd like to request that we tie Chris up somehow with vines and keep him away from the group.

Come on man, I'm on your side! Just because you're a grumpy old man and I'm completely psycho doesn't mean that we can't work together!

Talking in nonsense is a sign of scumminess, Chris.

No no, talking in nonsense is a sign that I'm enjoying myself.

Not the point I was making. I was saying that sniffing blood was stupid and pointless. As in not helping anyone. You keep claiming I've done nothing. What have you done?

Ah, I see. It appears I misunderstood. Yeah, it was a bit pointless, I have to admit. There really wasn't much left to do, since you were the one at the front of the pack trying out different things. Now, this could be viewed as helpful, but did we really find anything out? No, we didn't. You were obviously trying to waste everyone's time. Unfortunately, it worked.

Also, 'keep' claiming? I said it once, if that (I can't remember if I actually said it or not). But the exaggeration to try and make me look unreliable is duly noted.

Most of these people have been complacent and distant so you could get away with whatever you wanted while no one was paying attention. You started to realize that with the number of clues out there, it was only a matter of time until we found out everything. Now you're trying to discredit just about everyone who could possibly have any evidence that you're demons. It probably is even working with some of the inattentive people still out there.

That's exactly what you were trying to accomplish by being active and 'helpful'. The complacent people will pretty much listen to anyone who's talking a lot. Who talked the most during this ordeal? You, me, and Diana. Diana talked a lot because she legitimately wanted to catch the demons (until you converted her ), I talked a lot because I was literally bouncing off the walls from my blood-sniffing-highs, and you talked a lot to gain the trust of the others.

Oh, come on. Honestly, Samantha and I are buddying so hard that we're pretty much confirmed to not be demons. (Worked as an argument for you didn't it?)

All I'm doing is pointing out a flaw in your reasoning. Of course, your view is that anyone who does that is automatically a demon.

Nope, you aren't buddying at all. You're defending your teammate while still trying to stay at arm's length. Sylvia and I, on the other hand, have publicly acknowledged that we are 100% clear to one another.

Nice job trying to antagonize me by saying that I automatically accuse anyone who points out flaws in my reasoning, though. However, your grasping at straws has become even more painfully obvious.

[CorneliusMurdock]

No no, talking in nonsense is a sign that I'm enjoying myself.

This is a fight for our lives. I'm sorry that it amuses you somehow.

Ah, I see. It appears I misunderstood. Yeah, it was a bit pointless, I have to admit. There really wasn't much left to do, since you were the one at the front of the pack trying out different things. Now, this could be viewed as helpful, but did we really find anything out? No, we didn't. You were obviously trying to waste everyone's time. Unfortunately, it worked.

So you admit that you were deadweight and I was actually trying to catch demons? Okay, I concede that point.

We found clues. Just because they weren't the clues you wanted us to have doesn't mean it was a waste of time.

Also, 'keep' claiming? I said it once, if that (I can't remember if I actually said it or not). But the exaggeration to try and make me look unreliable is duly noted.

I'm sorry, Sylvia must also have said it a few times. But since you're such great buddies, I hope you can forgive me for that mix-up. You're making yourself look unreliable. you don't need much help from me.

That's exactly what you were trying to accomplish by being active and 'helpful'. The complacent people will pretty much listen to anyone who's talking a lot. Who talked the most during this ordeal? You, me, and Diana. Diana talked a lot because she legitimately wanted to catch the demons (until you converted her ), I talked a lot because I was literally bouncing off the walls from my blood-sniffing-highs, and you talked a lot to gain the trust of the others.

Talking a lot without having anything of substance to say is something a demon would do.

Nope, you aren't buddying at all. You're defending your teammate while still trying to stay at arm's length. Sylvia and I, on the other hand, have publicly acknowledged that we are 100% clear to one another.

That was a joke. And yes, I can't claim that I trust Samantha 100%. I have no way of determining with that much certainty which side she's on. No non-demon does.

Nice job trying to antagonize me by saying that I automatically accuse anyone who points out flaws in my reasoning, though. However, your grasping at straws has become even more painfully obvious.

Logically dissecting your argument isn't grasping at straws. It's called defending myself and the rest of the innocents from demons like you.

[Tamamono]

This is a fight for our lives. I'm sorry that it amuses you somehow.

Everything amuses me for some reason. I should probably see a doctor.

I'm sorry, Sylvia must also have said it a few times. But since you're such great buddies, I hope you can forgive me for that mix-up. You're making yourself look unreliable. you don't need much help from me.

Yup, I can forgive the mix-up. What I can't forgive, however, is how you killed a bunch of people and now you're converting others. That's really not cool, man.

Please do elaborate. How am I making myself look unreliable? Am I really making myself look unreliable, or are you just saying something because it makes it look like I'm not the one on the attack here? I'm willing to bet it's the latter.

And now of course you try to twist my words around and make it sound like 'on the attack' is the same as 'doing nasty evil demon-y things'.

Talking a lot without having anything of substance to say is something a demon would do.

The grasping at straws continues. Please, keep talking and continue to show to rest of the group what an obvious demon you are.

Honestly, your entire argument consists of "I'm not a demon, so that must mean that everyone who's saying I am must be demons themselves! Get back, demons!" even though we have hard evidence and well-built case against you. It's like Sylvia says, we're never going to be able to convince you that you're a demon, but it's good to get you talking so that the group can see how scummy you're being.

[CorneliusMurdock]

Please do elaborate. How am I making myself look unreliable? Am I really making myself look unreliable, or are you just saying something because it makes it look like I'm not the one on the attack here? I'm willing to bet it's the latter.

You're making yourself look unreliable by acting lie you should be in the looney bin. I have no control over you acting crazy, so don't blame that on me.

Honestly, your entire argument consists of "I'm not a demon, so that must mean that everyone who's saying I am must be demons themselves! Get back, demons!" even though we have hard evidence and well-built case against you. It's like Sylvia says, we're never going to be able to convince you that you're a demon, but it's good to get you talking so that the group can see how scummy you're being.

I've given out my clues. That's all the "hard evidence" I have. My clues aren't specific enough to start calling someone a demon based on them. (And I think all the clues separately are just like that.) The only thing I know besides that is the fact that I'm not a demon. Logically, the only reason someone would be trying so hard to make it look like I was is because that person is a demon.

For the last time, your "well-built" case is anything but. It's circumstantial evidence based the word of two people. I've poked enough holes in it already that the wind whistles as it blows through it.

[Tamamono]

You're making yourself look unreliable by acting lie you should be in the looney bin. I have no control over you acting crazy, so don't blame that on me.

Once again, you use completely irrelevant points as ammo.

So, it's the latter then. Cool.

I've given out my clues. That's all the "hard evidence" I have. My clues aren't specific enough to start calling someone a demon based on them. (And I think all the clues separately are just like that.) The only thing I know besides that is the fact that I'm not a demon. Logically, the only reason someone would be trying so hard to make it look like I was is because that person is a demon.

Let's step back for a minute and pretend I'm accusing someone else here. I have loads of evidence against that person, and that person doesn't have squat. Who are you going to believe?

For the last time, your "well-built" case is anything but. It's circumstantial evidence based the word of two people. I've poked enough holes in it already that the wind whistles as it blows through it.

I believe it's extremely well-built. Due to clues given to us by the Monk, I have deduced that there is one demon who, in between chapters, stabs people with a tooth-dagger-thing and turns their red gem green. The clues also confirm that the red gems are good, and the green gems are bad. That much everyone knows. My action of throwing gems into the water has been confirmed by Samantha (your demon friend), so you know I'm not making it up.

At least one of you, me, and Diana is a demon, that much everyone knows. Due to the results I've gotten, I have confirmed through the process of elimination that you and Diana are both demons (since Sheldon is innocent). The clues don't add up with you being converted, so you must be the converter. Easy peasy.

Now, it's of course possible that me, Sylvia, and Samantha are demons and I'm grouping Samantha with my demon suspects to avoid suspicion since she backed up my gem-throwing action. That is, however, highly unlikely. We're working with Occam's Razor here.

[Zepher]

Look, quite simply I knoz you're a demon, but I'm not waiting for you to admit it. Everyone knows all the facts I know. I think your plan to make me look like I took a leap of faith and outed one of my other demon and claimed I saw a random vision is crazy. I would have zero miotive for attention if I was a demon. I was not under pressure. I would have no need to draw attention to myself, especially not with these crack pot theories. I would frame the clues to make it look like they pointed to some one else, not make up a vision. Your denial of that seals the deal for me that you are a demon.

HOWEVER, as far as I know, I don't have to convince the others. I'm safe and I know who to trust and who not to trust. It is quite literally your funeral if you don't trust me, but a gal's first duty is self preservation and the demons won't be touching me.

[Hinckley]

I'd like to go up the stairs and see what I can see from there.

*Whilst arguing with Chris, Fred climbs the stairs and looks down on the room. He sees movement in the water. It doesn't seem to be fish or even sharks. It's like blocks of stone are moving around on their own down there some how...which is now apparently two words.*

I'd like to request that we tie Chris up somehow with vines and keep him away from the group.

*Bob requests others' help in tying Chris up with vines. Or Tony, rather. Whoever he is, he thinks Chris is a loon and could harm the group. Will anyone help him tie up Chris?*

[Tamamono]

*Whilst arguing with Chris, Fred climbs the stairs and looks down on the room. He sees movement in the water. It doesn't seem to be fish or even sharks. It's like blocks of stone are moving around on their own down there some how...which is now apparently two words.*

That would be Vacuus rising, I suppose. I'd better get down there and grab the sword before he does.

I'd like to dive into the water and try to remove the sword again.

Will anyone help him tie up Chris?

Ew, no, I'm not into that.

[CorneliusMurdock]

I believe it's extremely well-built. Due to clues given to us by the Monk, I have deduced that there is one demon who, in between chapters, stabs people with a tooth-dagger-thing and turns their red gem green.

All of which you'd know if you were a demon.

The clues also confirm that the red gems are good, and the green gems are bad. That much everyone knows. My action of throwing gems into the water has been confirmed by Samantha (your demon friend), so you know I'm not making it up.

The fact that there are gem clues is not being debated now. I contest your results. I think you're making them up.

At least one of you, me, and Diana is a demon, that much everyone knows.

I don't know about Diana but I know I'm not. I'm pretty certain you're the demon and everything else is you getting out of it.

Now, it's of course possible that me, Sylvia, and Samantha are demons and I'm grouping Samantha with my demon suspects to avoid suspicion since she backed up my gem-throwing action. That is, however, highly unlikely. We're working with Occam's Razor here.

No one's said you're working with Diana. As I said above the fact that there are such things as gem clues doesn't prove that you couldn't lie about your results.

Look, quite simply I knoz you're a demon, but I'm not waiting for you to admit it. Everyone knows all the facts I know. I think your plan to make me look like I took a leap of faith and outed one of my other demon and claimed I saw a random vision is crazy. I would have zero miotive for attention if I was a demon. I was not under pressure. I would have no need to draw attention to myself, especially not with these crack pot theories. I would frame the clues to make it look like they pointed to some one else, not make up a vision. Your denial of that seals the deal for me that you are a demon.

If you could have won more challenges, I think you might have tried to frame the clues. But you weren't under pressure, your team mate was. Chris was a member of the first untrusted group. It was going to be his word against mine until you took a hand in it and made sure I was the one that looked like the demon. It's just a very convenient vision that would name me specifically when this thing is a mystery. What the hell kind of mystery is it if the author shouts the answer at you? Why did you get the vision and no one else? (Of course now you can always get another demon to say they got it, too.)

I'd like to read the words aloud.

Who's helping now?

[Tamamono]

All of which you'd know if you were a demon.

The twisting and grasping at straws continues.

The fact that there are gem clues is not being debated now. I contest your results. I think you're making them up.

The fact that I received the gem clue at the time that I did clears me. I can't be the original demon, because the gem clues only come to pure souls (this is true), and I can't have been converted before I received them. I can't have been converted after I received them either, because I'm continuing on the same path that I was before. Your admitting that the gem clues are real means that I'm telling the truth and you are a demon.

No one's said you're working with Diana. As I said above the fact that there are such things as gem clues doesn't prove that you couldn't lie about your results.

I have no reason to do so. See above.

I'd like to read the words aloud.

There are no words. That was the smartass voice commenting on the fact that he broke somehow into two words.

Who's helping now?

I am.

[CorneliusMurdock]

The fact that I received the gem clue at the time that I did clears me. I can't be the original demon, because the gem clues only come to pure souls (this is true), and I can't have been converted before I received them. I can't have been converted after I received them either, because I'm continuing on the same path that I was before. Your admitting that the gem clues are real means that I'm telling the truth and you are a demon.

If people who get the gem clues can't be converted, why are you accusing Samantha of being a demon now? Your story doesn't add up.

[Tamamono]

If people who get the gem clues can't be converted, why are you accusing Samantha of being a demon now? Your story doesn't add up.

Oh, Fred, always twisting my words around. I said that gem clues only come to people who are innocent in the first place. The gem clue only stayed with her for one night, but I've had them for the last three nights. I think this is because she was converted after the first chapter. Simply put: I haven't been converted, so I haven't lost the gem clues.

[CorneliusMurdock]

Oh, Fred, always twisting my words around. I said that gem clues only come to people who are innocent in the first place. The gem clue only stayed with her for one night, but I've had them for the last three nights. I think this is because she was converted after the first chapter. Simply put: I haven't been converted, so I haven't lost the gem clues.

I don't have to twist your words at all, it's what you said. I just drew the logical conclusion. And now we're supposed to believe that only your gem clue is recurring? Your excuses get less and less plausible.

What was it you said about Occam's Razor? It looks like you might be in need of a shave.

I'd like to examine the sword that was on the wall next to the steps to see if anything has changed about that one.

[Tamamono]

I'm quite certain that the empty hook at the top of the stairs is where we'll place the sword after we've sacrificed Fred and told Vacuus to f*ck off. Now, how to get the sword in the first place...

I don't have to twist your words at all, it's what you said. I just drew the logical conclusion. And now we're supposed to believe that only your gem clue is recurring? Your excuses get less and less plausible.

I think we're having a massive misunderstanding here. I said that the gem clues prove that I'm telling the truth, and that in turn proves that I'm not a demon. PoE can be a difficult road to follow, and a hard one to lay out, so please bear with me!

I'm saying that I had no reason to lie, since I'm not a demon. The gem clues only come to innocents in the first place, so obviously, the only people (at the beginning) that they couldn't come to were you and Diesel. Samantha got them first, and you converted her, so the clues went to someone else.

In short, I can't be the original demon or a demon from puddles 1-4, since I did receive the clues. The only way I could be a demon is if I was converted in puddle 5. If that's the case, then the gem clues must have moved on to someone else. Did anyone get gem clues? Anyone at all? The only reason I haven't lost my gem clues yet because the demons haven't tried to convert me yet.

When I got the task, the Monk said that I'm a 'noble spirit' *brushes off shoulders*

What was it you said about Occam's Razor? It looks like you might be in need of a shave.

No, I'm quite fond of my whiskers. Although the blood I sniff does tend to stick to them.

[Shadows]

Ok, so we're at the end of our rope and the demons are going to try to get us to argue so they can waste the last bit of time we have to deal with them. It's not a bad strategy except for one thing, we know 3 people who can be trusted without doubt.

So now it's time to finish this, and here is how it's going to go ...

Present your evidence. Every direct clue. No interpretation, no commentary, just clue after clue. I don't care who you suspect or what you think, I just want to see exactly what you were told along the way. When all of that has been presented, we should have no problem spotting the liars and finishing this up properly.

All other conversation will be considered an attempt to misdirect/distract/stall us and participants in that will likely die. Horribly. So don't be an idiot, speak up, tell what you know for a fact and then shut up and wait.

[WhiteFang]

Are we seriously in crappy shit now??? I think we are, because all of the multiple demons talk... and the gem talks.. I have been given clues and both times (viewing blood puddles) only reveal more fabrics of different colours... Are the clues supposed to be same or what for everyone of us or everytime a new chapter begins, a new set of clues is given. At least, I know there are 3 'confirmed trusted' people.

I want to hug my wife... I miss my daughter.

[Hinckley]

I'd like to read the words aloud.

*Which words?*

I'd like to examine the sword that was on the wall next to the steps to see if anything has changed about that one.

*The swords don't seem any different.*

[CorneliusMurdock]

I think we're having a massive misunderstanding here. I said that the gem clues prove that I'm telling the truth, and that in turn proves that I'm not a demon. PoE can be a difficult road to follow, and a hard one to lay out, so please bear with me!

I'm saying that I had no reason to lie, since I'm not a demon. The gem clues only come to innocents in the first place, so obviously, the only people (at the beginning) that they couldn't come to were you and Diesel. Samantha got them first, and you converted her, so the clues went to someone else.

In short, I can't be the original demon or a demon from puddles 1-4, since I did receive the clues. The only way I could be a demon is if I was converted in puddle 5. If that's the case, then the gem clues must have moved on to someone else. Did anyone get gem clues? Anyone at all? The only reason I haven't lost my gem clues yet because the demons haven't tried to convert me yet.

When I got the task, the Monk said that I'm a 'noble spirit' *brushes off shoulders*

And we have only your word that this is the case? You seriously don't see how unconvincing that is to an outside observer?

All other conversation will be considered an attempt to misdirect/distract/stall us and participants in that will likely die. Horribly. So don't be an idiot, speak up, tell what you know for a fact and then shut up and wait.

You've wandered around here this entire time with your head up your butt and now you're barking orders?

I've already presented the clues I got a few chapters back. My defense of myself is in the best interest of the group because it's about truth.

[iamded]

If I may interject, I found a strand of dark orange hair in the first puddle last night, as well as dark brown fabric in the fifth puddle.

I was curious about this 'throwing gems in the water' thing, but I'm inclined to believe it now. See, yesterday when I suggested we all dunk our gems under the water (an idea no one else seemed to want to follow...), I myself dunked my gem under and it was revealed to me that it was red. I advise any non-demon doubters of this gem+water=colour reveal trick to try it for themselves and see.

[Dannylonglegs]

Which words?

I believe he was referring to your banter in reference to your misspelling of "somehow."

It's like blocks of stone are moving around on their own down there some how...which is now apparently two words.*[/i]

Last night, I investigated the fifth puddle of blood, and I found grey hair. That points to either Tony or my beloved William. (not Diana, because her puddle is puddle four.)

About all of these arguments: Call me a cynic, but I don't know about any clues about throwing gems in the pool, but, I do believe the untrustworthy can be extrapolated by looking over puddle clues and clues from the monk. So, here are the facts and lies, decide for yourselves:

Puddle one contains: tan fabric (@Fred, day 3), sand green fabric (@Diesel, day 5), dark blue fabric (@Sylvia, day 7)

Puddle 2: brown cloth (@Fred, day 5), dark brown hair (@Siegourney, day 7)

Puddle 3: dark blue fabric (@Diana, day 4), black fabric (@Chris, day 4), dark orange hair (@Diana, day 5)

Puddle 4: dark tan fabric*3 (@Siegourney, day 5), (@Chris, day 6), (@Tony, day 8), reddish hair (@Diana day 6), light blue fabric (@Fred, day 6), grey hair (@Donna (that's me!), day 7)

Puddle 5: grey hair (@Donna (that's me!), day 8)

Also, the monk, after we voted for untrustworthy folks to receive clues, provided us with the following: The group on Day 5; Diana, Fred, and Chris is not trustworthy; The group on Day 6: William, Donna, and Seigourney is untrustworthy.

So, here is my hypothesis:

P1 belongs to Diesel. Either Diesel or Sylvia is lying. Diesel would lie to avoid suspicion, but if Sylvia lied, she'd be a scum trying to protect another scum, and that theory doesn't jive with my other thoughts.

P2: I honestly have no clue. Taken at face value, this points to either Fred or Chris, but I don't trust either Fred or Siegourney, who are the only two to have submitted clues on it. (more later)

P3: This one's Siegourney's. I disregard Diana's orange hair (because she's a chronic liar) because, "The group on Day 6: William, Donna, and Seigourney is untrustworthy." I'm not untrustworthy, and at the time, I was sure of William's innocence. Infact, there's no way he was converted unless he was the head demon, which I don't believe. None of the clues point to him, so Seigourney must be this puddle's resident.

P4:Diana.

P5: Tony or William, I don't know which. I hope it's not my hubby, but I cannot trust either.

Fred would be the original demon.

This line of thought best supports the theories of Chris and Sylvia, who now have my trust because of this. In Fairness, I considered what the results would look like if Chris and Sylvia were scum and it goes like this;

Original demon: Sylvia

P1: Richard

P2: Chris

P3: no reliable info: William

P4: Diana

P5: Tony (only one left w/grey hair)

William would have to be the P3 to make this statement true: "The group on Day 6: William, Donna, and Seigourney is untrustworthy." but no evidence aside from that shows up.

If I forgot any information or any of you find a flaw in my theories (including the last) (using public evidence), please say so.

[Tamamono]

Present your evidence. Every direct clue. No interpretation, no commentary, just clue after clue. I don't care who you suspect or what you think, I just want to see exactly what you were told along the way. When all of that has been presented, we should have no problem spotting the liars and finishing this up properly.

A good idea, Sheldon.

Here's all the evidence I have gotten (that has not been revealed to the entire group by the Monk):

-Puddle 3 contains a fiber of black fabric

-Puddle 4 contains a fiber of dark tan fabric

-(as of the end of chapter 5) Of the group of Fred Thomas, Diana Mantino, and Sheldon Wills, there are 2 green gems and 1 red gem

-(as of the end of chapter 6) Of the group of Richard Sexton, Fred Thomas, and Penny Maltese, there are 1 green gem and 2 red gems

-When I made eye contact with Sylvia, I felt very safe

-(as of the end of chapter 7) Of the group of Samantha Cole, Tony Peck, and Ingrid Peck, there are 1 green gem and 2 red gems

-there is a sword attached to one of the pillars in the water

And we have only your word that this is the case? You seriously don't see how unconvincing that is to an outside observer?

It's a lot more convincing than "I'm not a demon even though there's evidence (that actually adds up) against me!"

You've wandered around here this entire time with your head up your butt and now you're barking orders?

He's clear, that's why he's "barking orders".

If I may interject, I found a strand of dark orange hair in the first puddle last night, as well as dark brown fabric in the fifth puddle.

Good to hear, Ingrid! That means the fifth puddle must lead to either William, Donna, or Fred. I think we can rule that last one out (), but the other two are viable suspects. Nice!

Last night, I investigated the fifth puddle of blood, and I found grey hair. That points to either Tony or my beloved William. (not Diana, because her puddle is puddle four.)

This means that they converted William last night. Of course, you yourself have dark brown pants, so you're a suspect, but we're narrowing things down at least.

*snip*

Thank you very much for that, Donna! It's good to hear that someone here is using common sense.

[Dannylonglegs]

This means that they converted William last night. Of course, you yourself have dark brown pants, so you're a suspect, but we're narrowing things down at least.

True, but, unless I'm lying, which I don't have any facts that prove I am not, that means my poor William has been converted.

Thank you very much for that, Donna! It's good to hear that someone here is using common sense.

Yay! I'm participating! I believe that I forgot that you, Chris, did indeed get clues on the day of puddle 2, so my second theory is indeed bust. As I thought. That means... P1: Diesel, P2: No reliable info, P3: Siegourney, P4: Diana, P5: William.

[CorneliusMurdock]

That's a lot of info you've compiled there, Donna. Thanks for making that effort. I will have to contest your conclusions later but right now I'm feeling run down. I'm gonna go sit quietly in a corner for a while. I'm sure there's a flaw in there somewhere.

[Dannylonglegs]

That's a lot of info you've compiled there, Donna. Thanks for making that effort. I will have to contest your conclusions later but right now I'm feeling run down. I'm gonna go sit quietly in a corner for a while. I'm sure there's a flaw in there somewhere.

Sorry to hear you're feeling low. I'm sure you'll find something, but I did spend an hour or two on it.

[Shadows]

You've wandered around here this entire time with your head up your butt and now you're barking orders?

Damn straight I am. I've let you little girls lead this show long enough to know that you're not up to the job or not interested in doing it properly, and unlike you, I'm confirmed as good. Your lack of cooperation at this most important moment speaks volumes.

If I may interject, I found a strand of dark orange hair in the first puddle last night, as well as dark brown fabric in the fifth puddle.

Thank you.

So, here are the facts and lies, decide for yourselves:

*snip*

Some nice work in there.

Here's all the evidence I have gotten (that has not been revealed to the entire group by the Monk):

And thank you as well.

You may also wonder what I received for clues. First, a confirmation of dark orange in the 1st puddle, which we all got, and second, dark blue in the 5th.

Assuming these puddle 5 clues are correct (and we can be absolutely certain about the 2 most important ones), puddle 5 is William. *game show losing sound* So sorry, you won't even get a copy of the home game now.