A2L

Why so few animals?

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It's Lego, build your own animals!

Just kidding, but was surprised no purists mentioned that. I like the new molds, and brick built animals look kinda weird next to minifigs, then again that's what imagination for right?

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Lately I've been trying to Bricklink most of the animals Lego has ever offered, though the elephant still seems just a bit too expensive for me. So I would like to echo pretty much everyone's pleas for more animal molds from Lego.

As far as aquatic animals, we're doing pretty well looking at Lego's history (shark, saw shark, dolphin, crab, starfish, regular fish, octopus, crocodile) but the land animals are lagging behind. Some have mentioned the lack of conflict on why there is no zoo theme. I guess I just think a zoo would still sell well even without much conflict. But if conflict sells, TLG could still make predators (lions, tigers, wolves) and make a fairly conflict-ridden safari theme.

Lastly, and fairly far off topic, I know TLG has a specific policy against modern war-themed sets, but do they actually have a policy against religious themes, like a Noah's Ark set? I know they have never really made anything religious before (I guess skirting the line with the angel impulse set) but I wasn't sure if anyone knew of any "actual" policy against them.

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Lately I've been trying to Bricklink most of the animals Lego has ever offered, though the elephant still seems just a bit too expensive for me. So I would like to echo pretty much everyone's pleas for more animal molds from Lego.

As far as aquatic animals, we're doing pretty well looking at Lego's history (shark, saw shark, dolphin, crab, starfish, regular fish, octopus, crocodile) but the land animals are lagging behind. Some have mentioned the lack of conflict on why there is no zoo theme. I guess I just think a zoo would still sell well even without much conflict. But if conflict sells, TLG could still make predators (lions, tigers, wolves) and make a fairly conflict-ridden safari theme.

Lastly, and fairly far off topic, I know TLG has a specific policy against modern war-themed sets, but do they actually have a policy against religious themes, like a Noah's Ark set? I know they have never really made anything religious before (I guess skirting the line with the angel impulse set) but I wasn't sure if anyone knew of any "actual" policy against them.

The problem with a Safari theme is that hunting in general can be controversial. It loses much of that controversy when it involves rounding up dinosaurs, or self-defense on a diving expedition.

And I don't know whether LEGO has an explicit rule against religious themes, but they clearly like to play it safe. This is extremely evident in themes like Indiana Jones, where scenes like the amazing climax of Last Crusade were omitted from sets entirely. I would like some religious ideas used too, primarily in the form of, for instance, angels and devils as Collectible Minifigs, or historically-significant religious figures like Friars for medieval themes. But less abstract representations of religious icons, especially sets ripped straight from the Bible like Noah's Ark, should probably be avoided at all costs.

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I don't know if they have an official statement regarding this. :sceptic:

Any hunting may not go over well with TLG, if they are that intent on avoiding any controversy/conflicts. :cry_sad:

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I'd really love to see more animals from LEGO but first I'd like to be able to get the ones they've already produced.

Why is it that all the new molds are in the big, expensive sets, when the cute piggy could be found in an impulse set? Thanks to this I could bring much more pigs to my farm. I want hens and goats so badly but even the Mill Village Raid is too expensive for me, besides I don't collect Castle.

I'd love a LEGO zoo but I guess I see how it's not that exciting for older kids. Why not a safari theme then? It could have vehicles and therefore some action that boys want. Playmobil has both zoo and safari and they have bad guys hunting the animals and good guys protecting the animals, I like that idea.

Next month one of the clone brands releases a new theme full of minifig-scale wild animals, if LEGO doesn't want my money I'll be spending it elsewhere. I hope it sells well enough to show LEGO that an action theme full of animals is possible.

And being a city builder, I want pigeons! Maybe even in two variations (head up and down), and available in packs of at least 50, for a realistic city. :laugh:

Oh yes, every city definitely needs lots of flying rats :D

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The problem with a Safari theme is that hunting in general can be controversial. It loses much of that controversy when it involves rounding up dinosaurs, or self-defense on a diving expedition.

Perhaps one way to do something along those lines is to make it more of a scientific endeavor where they are only catching them in order to tag. But, that's probably not an interesting subject to hook the kids.

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Perhaps one way to do something along those lines is to make it more of a scientific endeavor where they are only catching them in order to tag. But, that's probably not an interesting subject to hook the kids.

Maybe so, but if Lego released a Safari with biologists tagging animals when I was a kid, the tranq gun would be less tranq and more of a hunting rifle. Even if it didn't appear so. We definitely could use more animals. Maybe, if the Forest Theme sticks around, we can get new animal molds there. Theres plenty of options: raccoons, moose, mtn. goats, mtn. lions, bobcats, hawks, eagles, the list goes on!

As far as safari style animals, maybe Lego could look into a Roman theme. Colosseums, chariots, etc, that way there doesn't necessarily have harm directed towards the animals. They can be there for show; kept as pets, etc. Just my HO default_classic.gif

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I'd love a LEGO zoo but I guess I see how it's not that exciting for older kids. Why not a safari theme then? It could have vehicles and therefore some action that boys want. Playmobil has both zoo and safari and they have bad guys hunting the animals and good guys protecting the animals, I like that idea.

The theme would have to make clear that the hunters are not just hunters, but poachers, if such a theme were to skirt controversy. The hunting lobby is alive and well, at least in the USA. And even if it were a animal-rescuers vs. poachers-type theme, it might still be too violent. After all, very few villains in LEGO theme are blatantly killers. The LEGO City theme includes no guns whatsoever, and I imagine the guns being used on animals (even by the bad guys) would make a theme even more controversial than that.

There's a bit of a paradox in this sort of theme design. Conflict sells, and is usually essential in stories. Kids want to be able to role play with their sets, and it helps to sell those sets if they can clearly understand who the "good guys" and "bad guys" are. But LEGO's violence policy is there to keep violent conflict (one of the most prevalent types of conflict in the world) unrealistic enough that kids will not connect LEGO sets to stories of violent crime and war their parents watch on the news. I'm not advocating that LEGO stop producing conflict-based sets, or that they relax their violence policy. I'm just waxing poetic on where the lines are drawn.

But that's getting off topic. I still think a circus theme could be good for introducing a few varieties of "zoo animals". Unlike a zoo theme, not all Circus sets would need new animal molds: there could be a set with performing elephants, and one with a lion tamer, but clown, trapeze and daredevil sets could work equally well. Once some of these iconic animals had debuted in other themes, they could more easily be brought over to a zoo set, and the zoo set could be filled out with existing animals like alligators and monkeys without needing to introduce many new molds at all.

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I don't get the that TLG have a ban on religious themes, they already have had one. They had evil explorers violating temples and disturbing tombs and religious artifacts in the Pharaohs Quest series and that had plenty of guns for those bad guys against the poor old scarabs and the like. I did not like those sets on principle, I mean what sort of reaction would a set based around someone shooting up a church get?

A theme based in ancient times would be good and that could have lots of animals, (As has already been said, chariots and the like.) in it for all sorts of things that are not always or necessarily violent or harmful to people or animals yet still have a good story to tell.

As for the safari theme, well surely it does not have to be about hunting trapping or anything like that. It could be an extension of the City range showing some holiday makers going to view the animals with them in a jeep/range rover/minibus type vehicle looking at them with binoculars. OK, admittedly it may not warrant a full range by itself, but you could get a handful, similar to the farm sets as a City add on.

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I definitely think a lot of people are thinking about these matters entirely backwards. TLG's thought process isn't "how can we release a bunch of new animals in a theme that gets kids excited?"-- it's "we have a theme idea that will get kids excited; what new animals can we add that will help it meet kids' expectations?"

For instance, TLG surely didn't release Aquazone or Divers simply as an excuse to create more aquatic animal molds, or release Adventurers as an excuse for a scorpion, or send the Adventurers to the jungle as an excuse for a spider. All these themes would have emerged from pitches for diverse lines that excite children's imaginations and sense of adventure, and the animals would have been chosen afterwards based on necessity and practicality.

Do we need a few new parts to establish an underwater atmosphere? Let's introduce seaweed, octopus, and stingray parts. Does our desert adventure theme need more danger? Let's re-use the snake mold from the Western theme, and maybe make a new scorpion mold. Do our jungle ruins not feel "ruined" enough, and is it too hard for kids to act out their favorite scenes from action movies? Let's add some spiderwebs as obstacles, and create a new spider mold to go on them. This is the sort of thought process that the new animals in these themes might have emerged from.

I agree with Lyi that a circus theme would have more potential play value than a zoo theme. Visiting a zoo is a leisure activity; working at a zoo is... well... work. Some types of leisure activities are more "adventurous" to kids than others, hence why TLG has had sets like this year's Car and Caravan which celebrates the tradition of leaving home to appreciate nature and the outdoors. Zoos, on the other hand, are for the visitor a purely observational experience (minus sitcom-style family drama, of course) and for workers a routine work experience. So while zoos are naturally good subject matter for Duplo, which targets kids who are first learning to understand their world through role-play, it doesn't have the same appeal for older kids who want to tell exciting stories, not just recreate simple chains of events through play and building.

A circus is also an observational leisure activity, but there's usually a strong sense of thrills and danger, and circuses have never hesitated to play up this angle. Of course, circuses have their own share of controversy regarding how animals are treated for the public's amusement, so TLG might be deliberately choosing to avoid such a theme for that reason.

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If they really wanted a theme to have lots of animals, they could just to a Game Preserve theme. There could be various animals, the Preserve's Ranger's, researchers and tourists on a Photo Safari... Perhaps an evil poacher or two for the Rangers to catch. They could do an Africian version one year, North American another year, South American yet another year, Asian yet another. They could even 'slip in' sets sets for areas that might not warrant a whole theme like the Antarctic or the like. They could even do a separate Ocean line, lots of possibilities.

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I definitely think a lot of people are thinking about these matters entirely backwards. TLG's thought process isn't "how can we release a bunch of new animals in a theme that gets kids excited?"-- it's "we have a theme idea that will get kids excited; what new animals can we add that will help it meet kids' expectations?"

My question is: why aren't already existing animals more available? If I need horses I can buy white ones on PAB for less than 1 USD. That probably means it's profitable for Lego to sell them at that price. What's Lego's thought process behind not providing camels, cows, etc. for sale around 2-4 USD?

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Can anyone tell me if the presence of "conflict" is an official LEGO thought? Many of you have talked about routine, regular, unexciting, without conflict etc., and yeah I even agree with you. But I don't agree that TLG doesn't even look at sets where conflict is absent. It is not even that such themes get a passing glance. On the contrary such themes have been the mainstay for years, even when conflict based themes have come and gone! How is road repair, fire fighting, street sweeper, garbage collection, pizza corner, airport, fishing boat, harbor, camping, city bus, garage or even ambulance/hospital (replace with animal clinic and vet) be full of conflict? And TLG has been doing this in CITY theme for 15 years or even longer, nonstop!

Again animals need not be confined to a zoo. It can be a vet clininc, animal sanctuary, bird sanctuary, photo safari (like DUPLO), recreation/amusement park (like Seaworld) etc.

My question is: why aren't already existing animals more available? If I need horses I can buy white ones on PAB for less than 1 USD. That probably means it's profitable for Lego to sell them at that price. What's Lego's thought process behind not providing camels, cows, etc. for sale around 2-4 USD?

A question that has been asked many times, but replies seem rare!

Edited by A2L

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I don't get the that TLG have a ban on religious themes, they already have had one. They had evil explorers violating temples and disturbing tombs and religious artifacts in the Pharaohs Quest series and that had plenty of guns for those bad guys against the poor old scarabs and the like. I did not like those sets on principle, I mean what sort of reaction would a set based around someone shooting up a church get?

A theme based in ancient times would be good and that could have lots of animals, (As has already been said, chariots and the like.) in it for all sorts of things that are not always or necessarily violent or harmful to people or animals yet still have a good story to tell.

As for the safari theme, well surely it does not have to be about hunting trapping or anything like that. It could be an extension of the City range showing some holiday makers going to view the animals with them in a jeep/range rover/minibus type vehicle looking at them with binoculars. OK, admittedly it may not warrant a full range by itself, but you could get a handful, similar to the farm sets as a City add on.

The aversion to religious themes doesn't extend to themes like Pharaoh's Quest because there's no one to be offended. Practically no one practices ancient Egyptian religion these days, and thus no one's going to start associating said practioners in their classroom or workplace with evil undead mummies. As for the guns, those were justified by the undead mummies and stone creatures (not living, breathing creatures) constantly trying to kill the heroes. Also, Pharaoh's Quest bordered on a historic theme, depicting as it did filmreel-type heroes in mid-1900s vehicles, and historic themes get some leeway in the weapons department (the tommy guns of Pharaoh's Quest are not commonly used in modern times, and as such fall under historical weaponry like the muskets in Pirates). And since the guns never came close to being used on humans, it's a completely different thing than guns in, say, LEGO City. But this is all sort of off topic.

I think a safari theme as you described would flop, big time. The farm theme owed part of its success to being a part of LEGO City, which is a successful line in itself. A safari theme would be so removed from that that it would need to be part of another theme. And launching a theme based around observing wild animals would be really hard, since there would be very little action and not a whole lot of building, either.

Can anyone tell me if the presence of "conflict" is an official LEGO thought? Many of you have talked about routine, regular, unexciting, without conflict etc., and yeah I even agree with you. But I don't agree that TLG doesn't even look at sets where conflict is absent. It is not even that such themes get a passing glance. On the contrary such themes have been the mainstay for years, even when conflict based themes have come and gone! How is road repair, fire fighting, street sweeper, garbage collection, pizza corner, airport, fishing boat, harbor, camping, city bus, garage or even ambulance/hospital (replace with animal clinic and vet) be full of conflict? And TLG has been doing this in CITY theme for 15 years or even longer, nonstop!

Again animals need not be confined to a zoo. It can be a vet clininc, animal sanctuary, bird sanctuary, photo safari (like DUPLO), recreation/amusement park (like Seaworld) etc.

A question that has been asked many times, but replies seem rare!

Conflict doesn't have to be between people. The conflict in fire fighting is the firefighters vs. the fire. The conflict in a hospital is doctors vs. whatever threat to the lives of their patients is in play. Even road repair has "conflict", in that the repair crew has to fix the road in time for it to be usable again. Zoos have little conflict; the visitors are there for a relaxing day off, and the zookeepers are there for their routine animal care. You could create conflict by, for instance, having an animal escape, but I can see real-life zookeepers protesting such a set because it presents them as negligent.

Some of the sets you mentioned do not include much conflict, it's true, but those do include a lot of action. Vehicles, in general, are exciting for kids. Zoos may have go karts for taxiing the zookeepers around, but not much more than that. And keep in mind that a lot of those sets, while they aren't sold by conflict, don't require as many new specialized molds as a zoo would. That keeps the set price low and helps LEGO to make a return on investment. That's why I keep saying that a zoo set isn't impossible, but it's not feasible until many of these unique animal molds have already been designed and payed for in other themes. And because of the lack of conflict, I think a full zoo set (with maybe three or four different animal enclosures, at $80-$100) would sell better than a full theme (which would risk kids getting their favorite animal in a smaller set and then passing on all the others).

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My question is: why aren't already existing animals more available? If I need horses I can buy white ones on PAB for less than 1 USD. That probably means it's profitable for Lego to sell them at that price. What's Lego's thought process behind not providing camels, cows, etc. for sale around 2-4 USD?

Perhaps the horse just has higher demand among kids and army builders than more "niche" animals like camels. PAB selection has to be kept within certain limits because the parts have to be picked by hand, and the more parts there are, the less efficient the packing process becomes. It certainly makes me wonder what the future of the online PAB service will be because TLG's other custom-ordering services, Design byME and Hero Recon Team, have been determined not to be cost-effective (Design byME was cancelled in January; Hero Recon Team will be cancelled next month). But all in all, I can easily understand why Pick-A-Brick tends to stick to interchangeable minifigure parts and more versatile building elements as opposed to lots of extremely specialized parts like animals.

Can anyone tell me if the presence of "conflict" is an official LEGO thought? Many of you have talked about routine, regular, unexciting, without conflict etc., and yeah I even agree with you. But I don't agree that TLG doesn't even look at sets where conflict is absent. It is not even that such themes get a passing glance. On the contrary such themes have been the mainstay for years, even when conflict based themes have come and gone! How is road repair, fire fighting, street sweeper, garbage collection, pizza corner, airport, fishing boat, harbor, camping, city bus, garage or even ambulance/hospital (replace with animal clinic and vet) be full of conflict? And TLG has been doing this in CITY theme for 15 years or even longer, nonstop!

Again animals need not be confined to a zoo. It can be a vet clininc, animal sanctuary, bird sanctuary, photo safari (like DUPLO), recreation/amusement park (like Seaworld) etc.

Conflict doesn't have to be person-versus-person or even person-versus-monster/animal/robot to sell a theme. What's really important is the potential for conflict-- not conflict as in danger, but conflict from a storytelling perspective, as in challenges a person has to overcome. Ambulances have to hurry their patients to the hospital. At hospitals, doctors have to identify and heal a person's ailments. At an airport, people have to get to their planes on time, and the planes themselves often have to get to a destination. Firefighters have to fight fires. Road repairmen have to repair roads. In all of these sets there's plenty of room for storytelling.

I respect the desire to see more "zoo animals", but I just don't see a zoo set or subtheme as the best way for these animals to be introduced, since I don't imagine that kids in the LEGO City age range would readily associate zoos with conflict-based storytelling. Perhaps that's a failure of my own imagination, but I think a story told at a zoo, other than something completely out-of-the-ordinary like a wild animal escape, would consist of "First we went to see [Animal A]. Then we went to see [Animal B]. Then we went to see [Animal C]." For a story told from the zookeeper's perspective, simply replace "see" with "feed/tend to". These things work fine for Duplo, where again the role-play helps young kids to understand the world around them. But for older kids seeking to act out adventures and challenges, it doesn't seem like it would hold the same appeal.

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I think I've finally properly understood what you've been trying to say, Aanchir. Ít's very true, a zoo theme does not leave a whole lot of room for story-telling in a normal kid's mind, for the most part.

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Well, I disagree on the 'no-one follows the old religions' bit as I do and know plenty of others, and I was offended, but that is another arguement. I will continue to look at that teme as one of 'EVIL' adventurers ransacking and defiling religious icons and sancturies.

But back on topic. There is I would suggest plenty of scope for conflict within animal parks. Where I live our town is divided practically in two by a nature reserve and only a few weeks ago, just after Christmas a man escaped from police and part of his get away was to swim up the water-ways into the nature reserve where he promptly became stuck in quick-sand and had to then be rescued by the wardens (And police he was running from.)So that sort of thing would fit well into CITY and conflict. It actually seems quite a popular place for people on the run from the law to try and hide.

I can see the point about there not being a great deal of scope for building though, apart from trees with minifigs, (There is a HP set?) and possibly a place for an observations hideout, a truck, and a cafe/gift shop, maybe a bridge and a small watercraft, (One of those with the big fans at the rear.) then there is not much to build.

But I suppose children are not so imaginative as adults when it comes to those sort of things.

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Are horses hard to get? I have somewhere between 60-70 and never felt that i was needing more of them.

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I don't know about that. What matters is whether it brings in the cash or not, right? As far as I know the Playmobil Noah's Ark sold quite splendidly. I could be wrong about this though.

But, yeah, at least start with a zoo or circus. Noah's Ark can come a bit later... :laugh:

As others have pointed out, they are willing to forgo profits sometimes to keep some silly ideological restriction... Noah's Ark, to the extent of the Ark and animals themselves, is a great story. I'm not religious, my kids don't go to Sunday school, but some religious stories are fascinating. Aside from the flood-and-everybody-else-dies :hmpf: part, an ark with various animals would be great.

I also supported the Dradle idea on Cuusoo. They'd also make great gifts for people who ARE religious, and all the atheists who "boycott" LEGO because they released a religious set can kiss my hairy megablocks.

It's Lego, build your own animals!

I just helped build some "brand ribbon" sets for a new LEGO Store... the brick built dogs I assembled were the ugliest things ever, and certainly not to scale with minifigures. I know you were joking, but it reminded me why sometimes molded is better, especially at minifigure scale.

I'd really love to see more animals from LEGO but first I'd like to be able to get the ones they've already produced.

This is why they should release "animal packs." They're just animals - they don't have to deal with the same kind of nonsense they have to deal with for licensed sets, where someone else has the license for "action figures." It's just animals... they could start with what they already have molds for and gauge the popularity.

I definitely think a lot of people are thinking about these matters entirely backwards. TLG's thought process isn't "how can we release a bunch of new animals in a theme that gets kids excited?"-- it's "we have a theme idea that will get kids excited; what new animals can we add that will help it meet kids' expectations?"

True, which is why I agree a Zoo wouldn't work, but still think animal packs - at least of animals they've already made, would be great. They don't need new animals until the old ones are proven great sellers.

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I'm sure I read somehwere before the forest sets were released that we would see a number of new animal moulds (I'm talking about leaked information).

We've seen a great new bear, but I'd hope to see maybe a generic deer mould that could transfer into a castle or christmas setting if required.

A different bird mould, like the one stud chicken, would be great. It could be a pigeon for the city builders and different colours for forest/jungle settings.

I picked up a clone brand 'collectable' pack that are making animals, out of interest. And it's dreadful. As people seem to be attempting to copy TLG's success with set's of collectable figures, why dont they do their own range of animal packs? Or at least use the CMF series' to make some new small animal moulds, as accessories for various figures.

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This is why they should release "animal packs." They're just animals - they don't have to deal with the same kind of nonsense they have to deal with for licensed sets, where someone else has the license for "action figures." It's just animals... they could start with what they already have molds for and gauge the popularity.

Yes that's what they should do with the existing animals like cows, sheep, goats, camels. They can also gauge the demand for animals this way. A set is never an indication.

Again I am not sure about the higher demand for horses vs. other animals. A price check on BL confirms that the demand for goats, cows and camels are much higher than supply selling at $3 to 5+. Otherwise their price would have definitely come down by now. However some horses are available very cheap (higher supply by TLG in lower priced sets).

Finally has anyone taken a look at this http://www.brickanimals.com/ ? Good to see that more entrepreneurs are coming forward to fill the gap left by TLG. May be someday this thread will become irrelevant as all (LEGO compatible) animals will be available from 3rd parties just like mil. arms and accessories.

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Yes that's what they should do with the existing animals like cows, sheep, goats, camels. They can also gauge the demand for animals this way. A set is never an indication.

Again I am not sure about the higher demand for horses vs. other animals. A price check on BL confirms that the demand for goats, cows and camels are much higher than supply selling at $3 to 5+. Otherwise their price would have definitely come down by now. However some horses are available very cheap (higher supply by TLG in lower priced sets).

Finally has anyone taken a look at this http://www.brickanimals.com/ ? Good to see that more entrepreneurs are coming forward to fill the gap left by TLG. May be someday this thread will become irrelevant as all (LEGO compatible) animals will be available from 3rd parties just like mil. arms and accessories.

Uhmm nice odgs...but I hope lego release some similar too and more animals like lions, zebra, special birds and more...

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This is why they should release "animal packs." They're just animals - they don't have to deal with the same kind of nonsense they have to deal with for licensed sets, where someone else has the license for "action figures." It's just animals... they could start with what they already have molds for and gauge the popularity.

True, which is why I agree a Zoo wouldn't work, but still think animal packs - at least of animals they've already made, would be great. They don't need new animals until the old ones are proven great sellers.

That would be amazing, imagine if they went by Continent or so;

  • Africa
  • North America
  • South America
  • Australia

It would be reminiscent of when TLG used to release flags and fence or trees and flower packs. Obviously those past packs were replaced by PAB. However I think the animal packs would be a great seller. :drool:

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Pfft.. when I was an 8 year old boy, I just used this, as inspiration to make my own animals:

http://www.peeron.com/scans/2-3/19

Should be pretty easy to make better ones these days, with all the newer, finer-detailed bricks!!

anyway.. about time we get an official Lego Kangaroo! default_tong.gif

RB

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