Yakuza Family - Day 1

[Bob]

Well, we still can have a watcher watch her, if we have one, and I'd rather have her investigated than lynched. Since we have unlimited unvotes, I highly doubt there will be a bandwagon against Yasu, but would you please tell me what is "to gain"?

Say Yasu isn't a mutineer, and she's really just dumb. The scum killer tonight will just kill her knowing they have a clear target.

[Brickdoctor]

Say Yasu isn't a mutineer, and she's really just dumb. The scum killer tonight will just kill her knowing they have a clear target.

I doubt that. It's pretty obvious that if Yasu survives, there is a very good chance that she will be protected and investigated. (and, possibly, watched)

[CMP]

Well, we still can have a watcher watch her, if we have one, and I'd rather have her investigated than lynched. Since we have unlimited unvotes, I highly doubt there will be a bandwagon against Yasu, but would you please tell me what is "to gain"?

The possibility of lynching a scum. Having a watcher isn't a permanent solution, and to be honest, I haven't found many other people entirely suspicious today.

[JimBee]

If you and I are thinking the same line, I am not sure if I should attempt to understand the meaning but it appears there might be "5" hiding among us for starters?

Is that what you are thinking too.

Yes, but five seems like an awfully low number for how many of us there are... if there is any significance in the genies to this extent, maybe they have a recruiting ability.

Thinking things over, I'm inclined to believe that Yasu is a role cop, but the question remains whether she is scum or town. Role cop could be a useful role for either; perhaps more so for scum who have to find out whom to target at night.

I'm leaning towards Yasu being a scum role-cop, and therefore I would rather not risk keeping a likely scum around for another day.

That's a very good point. From what I've seen, Yasu is acting very erratically, and it seems to me that it's very possible her scummy buddies are whispering in her ear. "Claim role-cop, it's a safe claim for scum". Even if she isn't scum, she is a danger to the town. If she spilled her role right away, who's to say she won't use her night action poorly, or possibly even reveal the results at the wrong time and to the wrong people. It would also take a night or more to verify her claims, which detracts from other usage of night actions (e.g. focusing in on one person, directing night actions are just what the scum want), as well as taking the risk that she'll be killed anyway.

I'm willing to take a... "calculated risk" here, by voting for you, Yasu.

Vote: Yasu (TheBoyWonder)

[Tamamono]

Okay (not ok-ey) dokey, here are a few more people I'm suspicious of:

Isamu-kun: Defended Yasu-chan fervently at the beginning of the Day. If he's scum and she's not, then he knows it will look good for him if he defends her and she gets lynched and comes up town. Defending townies is one of the best ways to appear town.

Tamiko-san: One of the quiet ones, but when she spoke up, it was completely 100% unhelpful. Maybe this can be attributed to inexperience, maybe not.

Shizuku-san: Again. She's taking the kind of 'middle road' the scum would want to take.

Out of everyone, I'm still the most suspicious of Emi-chan. I hate having to base something on metagaming like this, but she reeks of scum to me. I suppose I should put my vote where my mouth is:

Vote: Emi (Brickdoctor)

[Brickdoctor]

Out of everyone, I'm still the most suspicious of Emi-chan. I hate having to base something on metagaming like this, but she reeks of scum to me. I suppose I should put my vote where my mouth is:

So, to be clear, you're voting for me because I'm actively and relentlessly going after Yasu? I have to ask, what Scum would want to draw attention to themselves, constantly pursuing one other player? Any way you look at it, on Day One, it is not a smart move for a Scum to risk his life to lynch just one Townie. It's too great a risk.

[WhiteFang]

Blow it, I will reveal what ichirou told me not to do unless I was an immediate lynch target.

I am the Town Role cop.

You have been giving us lots of weird defenses... Role claiming to someone in private is fine and it is up to that individual to trust that info but role claiming before a lynch has started is totally dumb plus the fact that you fail to present a good solid defensive case in your replies. Most of your replies are extremely off the mark and we got to piece them together. For the benefit of doubt, you might be inexperienced but that doesn't give you the rights not to help our family in a concrete manner.

Still, your words speak for itself and you better defend yourself in a concise and summarised manner instead of ranting all over the temple.

Now, to the situation at hand. To completely counteract what I just talked about, allow me to recap the possible actions tonight.

• Vote out Yasu - Yasu really is the town role cop like she claims. We lose a useful loyal role.
  
• Vote out Yasu - Yasu is town who desperately role-claimed to try and stay alive. We lose a loyal Yakuza.
  
• Vote out Yasu - Yasu is a scum who desperately role-claimed to try and stay alive. We take out a mutineer.
  
• Vote out Yasu - Yasu is a scum role cop who role-claimed in the hope it would be somehow verified, and she would gain our trust. We take out a mutineer power role.
  
• Don't vote out Yasu - Yasu really is the town role cop like she claims. Scum would do their best to make her role useless - blocking, killing, hijacking. Town would want to investigate her to determine her allegiance.
  
• Don't vote out Yasu - Yasu is a regular Yakuza who role-claimed to stay alive. Would still be targeted by the scum and investigated by our investigator. Would at least distract the scum for a night.
  

[*]Don't vote out Yasu - Yasu is a scum. Our investigator would find out, unless the scum have a protective ability that blocks night actions.

Okay, there's just a multitude of possible outcomes. Let's just... hm. We shouldn't risk losing our role cop, but we can't guarantee us successfully investigating her tonight, and if we don't manage that, then what? Meanwhile, it seems there's been much more conversation in the time that I've said this, so I should catch up again.

Thanks! This is a very good summary... To be honest, I am almost ready to vote for her or pick up another target for a potential lynch and leaving the scums to take care of Yasu (provided if we can offer her sanctuary). I am with the majority and it could just be a futile defense on her end. Yasu mentioned all of this when her life wasn't even on the line. This is just crap..

[iamded]

Hmmm, hm hm hm...

I need to think more about this. I'm not entirely willing to vote for Yasu, but then again, if she's telling the truth then the scum all know it too, then her role won't be particularly useful with the scum avoiding or otherwise manipulating it. Something to keep in mind.

[Tamamono]

So, to be clear, you're voting for me because I'm actively and relentlessly going after Yasu? I have to ask, what Scum would want to draw attention to themselves, constantly pursuing one other player? Any way you look at it, on Day One, it is not a smart move for a Scum to risk his life to lynch just one Townie. It's too great a risk.

No, I'm voting for you because you never act like this. This is a huge change in your behavior from usual.

However, you do make a pretty good point. You've had tunnelvision for Yasu-chan all day, and I think a scum probably would have faded into the crowd after a while, and you haven't.

[JimBee]

No, I'm voting for you because you never act like this. This is a huge change in your behavior from usual.

As Aiko said earlier, what earlier behavior? There's this rule against "metagaming" in this wonderful family, and I wouldn't be surprised if Grandpa punished you for your insolence.

[Tamamono]

As Aiko said earlier, what earlier behavior? There's this rule against "metagaming" in this wonderful family, and I wouldn't be surprised if Grandpa punished you for your insolence.

Er hem,

Do not play the game outside the thread. Similarly, do not post out of character inside the thread. Game tactics and roles may only be discussed in the game thread or via PM with other players. Private discussion is done at your own risk and should be treated as part of the game. Metagame at your own risk.

[Nightshroud99]

Isamu-kun: Defended Yasu-chan fervently at the beginning of the Day. If he's scum and she's not, then he knows it will look good for him if he defends her and she gets lynched and comes up town. Defending townies is one of the best ways to appear town.

Tamiko-san: One of the quiet ones, but when she spoke up, it was completely 100% unhelpful. Maybe this can be attributed to inexperience, maybe not.

Shizuku-san: Again. She's taking the kind of 'middle road' the scum would want to take.

Interesting suspicions.. Also perhaps it'd be best to put usernames besides their names, I didn't know who these people were.

At the moment the only viable vote in my opinion is Yasu, because she put up a worthless defense and role claimed way early.. If she is a role cop I don't want to lose that advantage, but she is pretty useless now because everyone knows. So she'd be blocked, killed, etc And if we waste our doctor (assuming we have one) to protect her tonight, it may be a waste of time and resources if she's just going to be blocked on her investigation.

Tomorrow, after we learn her true allegiance, we can hopefully analyze voting patterns and deduce who may be the next to go.

So I shall Vote: Yasu (TheBoyWonder)

Sashimi boat freshly made! All you can eat!

[Peanuts]

Isamu-kun: Defended Yasu-chan fervently at the beginning of the Day. If he's scum and she's not, then he knows it will look good for him if he defends her and she gets lynched and comes up town. Defending townies is one of the best ways to appear town.

"Fervently"? You're not exaggerating, are you? Granted, it's a well-known scum tactic to defend townies who are going to die anyway, but that's usually after the bandwagon started or when it is at least foreseeable. And because it is well-known, it's not very effective. I'm not new to these games, you know. And I didn't really defend her, I just voiced my opinion, which was, that I didn't believe she was scum, and why I didn't believe she was scum.

Okay, here two people I'm suspicious of:

-Shiro (Alopex): He spßoke up twice. The first time he said:

Hello everybody! I don't really like this situation. What if we lynch the wrong person??

Yasu's statement was a bit strange, but it could be nothing. We'll have to think a bit more, although I doubt we will get any concrete evidence now.

The first part "What if we lynch the wrong person" is certainly not a very pro-town attitude. We'll have to take risks at some point. Crying won't help us.

The second part is extremely vague, and frankly, it doesn't show great dedication. "It could be nothing" is ceratinly wrong, as her statement was certainly something. It doesn't prove she's scum, but it's not nothing. The rest is pretty generic.

His second post was:

Thats not really much of an excuse is it? At least you could defend your poor defence better

I don't really think Yasu is scum, although one day 1 we must follow the weakest of leads.

Not quite a very pro-town comment either, is it?

My second suspect would be Yasuko (RileyC). She's spoken uo once, wondering how Yasu knew we would lynch people (), assuming there are only 5 Mutineers based on the genies (which would be far too few in my opinion) and finally saying it was a hard task to find 5 Mutineers (unneccessary defeatism). Finding 5 Mutineers with 27 (32-5) Yakuza Members/possible impartials should be an easy task, if there is no conversion. But I won't speculate about numbers right now, since we don't know anything about that.

[Tamamono]

Unvote: Emi (Brickdoctor)

After thinking it over for a while, I've decided to unvote Emi-chan. While I still think that my metagamey reasons are valid, she makes a good point that a scum wouldn't want to be so 'out there' on the first Day. I could see a scum bringing up slip-up like what Yasu-chan said, but I can't see one going on like Emi-chan has been.

perhaps it'd be best to put usernames besides their names, I didn't know who these people were.

Oh, sorry! I'll remember that next time.

"Fervently"? You're not exaggerating, are you? Granted, it's a well-known scum tactic to defend townies who are going to die anyway, but that's usually after the bandwagon started or when it is at least foreseeable. And because it is well-known, it's not very effective. I'm not new to these games, you know. And I didn't really defend her, I just voiced my opinion, which was, that I didn't believe she was scum, and why I didn't believe she was scum.

That is a good point that the scum would only want to defend the townies after some time passed, but that was a pretty big blunder Yasu-chan pulled, and you could have figured that she would be lynched even that early in the Day.

I'm not accusing you of anything, I'm just pointing out that your actions today could be that of a scum. Don't take it too seriously.

Okay, here two people I'm suspicious of:

-Shiro (Alopex): He spoke up twice.

I had originally included Shiro-san in my list of suspicious people, but took it out since he's known to be a sheep in these situations (can't... stop... metagaming! ). I'd be okay with voting for him though, since he isn't doing any good.

My second suspect would be Yasuko (RileyC). She's spoken uo once, wondering how Yasu knew we would lynch people (), assuming there are only 5 Mutineers based on the genies (which would be far too few in my opinion) and finally saying it was a hard task to find 5 Mutineers (unneccessary defeatism). Finding 5 Mutineers with 27 (32-5) Yakuza Members/possible impartials should be an easy task, if there is no conversion. But I won't speculate about numbers right now, since we don't know anything about that.

I have to agree with this one. While Yasuko-san might have just been roleplaying playing dumb, those sorts of comments she made are definitely not helpful. She's another one I'd be okay with voting for, since she isn't doing any good either.

[Brickdoctor]

No, I'm voting for you because you never act like this. This is a huge change in your behavior from usual.

Despite the fact that we're not supposed to metagame* and the fact that you did Unvote me, just for further reference, I would like to point out that in a book called The Coming Darkness, a character a lot like me was very active and did pursue one inexperienced person (I think he might have been an orc, actually - I'm too lazy to check since the race is irrelevant ) relentlessly after becoming frustrated with that person's play.

*As if this was a game.

[Peanuts]

That is a good point that the scum would only want to defend the townies after some time passed, but that was a pretty big blunder Yasu-chan pulled, and you could have figured that she would be lynched even that early in the Day.

I'm not accusing you of anything, I'm just pointing out that your actions today could be that of a scum. Don't take it too seriously.

I can see you are not accusing me, I'm not defending me either. I just thought I should reply to your suspicion of me. There's nothing wrong with pointing out my actions could have been those of a Mutineer, that's certainly true. But I knew nobody would lynch her before she at least would defend herself, so if i was scum, I'd rather stay reluctant until her defense and then defend her as well, or simply go with the bandwagon, if there had been one. Just saying.

[RileyC]

My apologies with not posting a lot today, I was at a super slutty photoshoot

And boy, a lot has happened while I have been away. Yasu already role claiming? Total stuff up there

I feel like voting out Yasu today is the best option. If she is a scum, and we vote her out thats great news for us townies! But if we do keep her alive, and she's scum, she could use her night action to stuff us townies over tomorrow. However if she is town and we don't vote her our, she will most likely die tonight from the scum eliminating her because she put a huge target on her back with her role claim. So without any other information Im thinking this is our only solution for today. It may not be a very solid base to vote someone out but we got to make the tough decisions sometimes.

Vote: Yasu (TheBoyWonder)

[Capt. Redblade]

"Fervently"? You're not exaggerating, are you? Granted, it's a well-known scum tactic to defend townies who are going to die anyway, but that's usually after the bandwagon started or when it is at least foreseeable. And because it is well-known, it's not very effective. I'm not new to these games, you know. And I didn't really defend her, I just voiced my opinion, which was, that I didn't believe she was scum, and why I didn't believe she was scum.

Okay, here two people I'm suspicious of:

-Shiro (Alopex): He spßoke up twice. The first time he said:

The first part "What if we lynch the wrong person" is certainly not a very pro-town attitude. We'll have to take risks at some point. Crying won't help us.

The second part is extremely vague, and frankly, it doesn't show great dedication. "It could be nothing" is ceratinly wrong, as her statement was certainly something. It doesn't prove she's scum, but it's not nothing. The rest is pretty generic.

His second post was:

Not quite a very pro-town comment either, is it?

Hmm, Shiro-san does seem to be making a rather shaky bid to protect Yasu-chan. "What if we lynch the wrong person," sounds like an attempt to redirect the FoS, and I agree with Isamu-san that the second part of that statement is not helpful at all. It's the kind of thing an under-the-radar scum (or, admittedly, inattentive Yakuza) might say to make it look like they're engaged in the conversation. For now, I'll...

Vote: Yasu (TheBoyWonder)

... but Shiro-san better watch what he says.

[Fred Daniel Yam]

OK, it seems clear to me that Yasu is the centre of suspicion and I see nothing to change it therefore:

Vote: Yasu (TheBoyWonder)

[Tachyon]

Vote: Yasu (TheBoyWonder)

Oh well.

I'm probably going to get lynched by others for being unhelpful.

[def]

Even if Yasu is the role cop, the scum aren't going to let her roam too much. She's shackled her fate to her role, which won't be much help considering the Mutineers know about it know. There's more to gain than there is to lost - being scum is a probability that can't often be fully eliminated.

Wow. I totally remember Catwoman making the exact same argument about the Riddler. Better to kill a cop, since scum know who they are You'd rather lynch a power-role than have scum waste their block or kill on them tonight And such hypothesizing is not even guaranteed in a group as large as us. Why just last month, some Virgin-Cop got outed on day one and survived to the end, making a difference to the survival of town.

Some people never learn.

Vote: Chizuko (callmepie-chan)

That's a very good point. From what I've seen, Yasu is acting very erratically, and it seems to me that it's very possible her scummy buddies are whispering in her ear. "Claim role-cop, it's a safe claim for scum". Even if she isn't scum, she is a danger to the town. If she spilled her role right away, who's to say she won't use her night action poorly, or possibly even reveal the results at the wrong time and to the wrong people. It would also take a night or more to verify her claims, which detracts from other usage of night actions (e.g. focusing in on one person, directing night actions are just what the scum want), as well as taking the risk that she'll be killed anyway.

That's about the best argument for voting for Yasu-chan, that there is a danger of her flapping her mouth and putting other useful townies in hot water.

As Aiko said earlier, what earlier behavior? There's this rule against "metagaming" in this wonderful family, and I wouldn't be surprised if Grandpa punished you for your insolence.

Ah geez no, not the metagaming thing, or should I say, "metagaming" Unless you got a frontal lobotomy between now and last week, you have already metagamed in this "game". Whether you choose to talk about "books you read" or "game's of life" or however you phrase it, there's no advantage to us not admitting why we think the way we do... or do you really think the number of people who claim that Yasu-chan is "inexperienced" are merely referring to her experience at the rice plantation?

Let us never mention this thing called "metagaming" again

And to those voting out Yasu-chan:

Since when do we vote out people claiming roles on day one? It seems like the way to do it is to not cut out power roles the moment we start.

Those who think Yasu-chan is being coached:

If that's the case, that's some of the worst coaching ever seen. An absolute failure to give any useful, effective advice

[iamded]

Er, hmm. Well, I don't think voting out Yasu is the best bet. I was following Shizuko (CallMePie)'s train of thought up until Norio made this point:

Better to kill a cop, since scum know who they are You'd rather lynch a power-role than have scum waste their block or kill on them tonight

But then I realised, we vote out Yasu, we either take out a Yakuza or a Mutineer, and tonight the scum take out another Yakuza, or convert one.

But then, if we vote out someone else, the same thing happens: we either take out a Yakuza or a Mutineer, and tonight the scum take out another Yakuza, or convert one.

They key difference is Yasu's claim to a power role. If she's telling the truth then the second option is best, as it doesn't involve us voting out what is possibly our own team's role cop, and it allows us to watch Yasu tonight in case the scum try anything, as well as investigate Yasu to determine her true allegiance.

The question with that however, is who to vote out instead. Norio has suggested Shizuko because he suggested what is essentially the first option I just mentioned. I'll wait to hear what more other's have to say before casting a vote of my own. There's already a large number of votes against Yasu, but they can easily be undone and recast, and undone again and so forth. There's still a while left to this day, plenty of time to think things through.

[CMP]

Wow. I totally remember Catwoman making the exact same argument about the Riddler. Better to kill a cop, since scum know who they are You'd rather lynch a power-role than have scum waste their block or kill on them tonight And such hypothesizing is not even guaranteed in a group as large as us. Why just last month, some Virgin-Cop got outed on day one and survived to the end, making a difference to the survival of town.

Some people never learn.

Vote: Chizuko (callmepie-chan)

Perhaps, but that Riddler had a brain cell to spare.

Furthermore, the role cop isn't as nearly as useful as a normal cop - it itself could be a role on either side, and just as easily screw over the vigilante as eliminating the scum killer. In any case, it's an easy thing to claim - a role that's unlikely to actually be in a game (though I do accept that it's possible, given out quantity here), one that somebody could prove easily, and most importantly, I believe Yasu is the only suspect worth voting for today.

Unfortunately, you did point out something that caused a huge loss of faith in myself. Being a perfectly townie vanilla and the fact that we have a team win, I have no qualms with being lynched today. Repeated total day one failure is as viable a reason as any to lynch me.

By the way, you may want to see some of the reasoning we've all said in out votes for Yasu. You act like because a virgin to these sorts of situations wouldn't hesitate to false claim a role..especially so early on in the day. It's been done before, believe me. I'm almost more afraid how the scum would manipulate the poor gal than to how she could help weeding out damn Mutineers.

Look at this from a different point of view - thrust into the spotlight because of a minor screw-up. Gasp! Your head is nearing the chopping block! What to do? What to do?? Defend yourself! Of course! No, wait, it just made things worse! Think McFly, think! I've got it! Let's make a role claim! Okay...I shouldn't claim cop, what if there's another?? Wait, here's a neat version! It's perfect! Bada bing, I'm off the hook! /SCENE

Or this point of view - thrust into the spotlight, scuminess swimming like fishes in the oceans of my eyes! My death draws near, but at least I have my team to help...aha! Of course, INSERT SCUM NAME HERE! Role cop! It's perfect! Those foolish townies and their devilishly haired leader will never see it coming! /SCENE

I should start writing plays. Maybe in the afterlife I can be reborn as Shakespeare.

I left an opening for any Shakespearean quotes you may want to make regarding my fate there at the end. Use it well.

Alas. you caught me at a bad time, I was just about to go test out some new rice-packaging techniques. I'll be back in a few hours to see where fate's taken me.

[def]

Look at this from a different point of view - thrust into the spotlight because of a minor screw-up. Gasp! Your head is nearing the chopping block! What to do? What to do?? Defend yourself! Of course! No, wait, it just made things worse! Think McFly, think! I've got it! Let's make a role claim! Okay...I shouldn't claim cop, what if there's another?? Wait, here's a neat version! It's perfect! Bada bing, I'm off the hook! /SCENE

Or this point of view - thrust into the spotlight, scuminess swimming like fishes in the oceans of my eyes! My death draws near, but at least I have my team to help...aha! Of course, INSERT SCUM NAME HERE! Role cop! It's perfect! Those foolish townies and their devilishly haired leader will never see it coming! /SCENE

Except that's not the way scum work. They get a lot of coaching. An inexperienced scum would get advice on their role claim, and when to make it. I think when the heat was put on them, they would be consulting their group from then on. Yasu-chan's behavior is that of a loose cannon.

Don't give up your day job

[CMP]

Except that's not the way scum work. They get a lot of coaching. An inexperienced scum would get advice on their role claim, and when to make it. I think when the heat was put on them, they would be consulting their group from then on. Yasu-chan's behavior is that of a loose cannon.

Don't give up your day job

Yes, but apparently he'd asked both you and Ichi for advice, ignoring the other's advice and not even waiting for a response from you. I don't find it unlikely any scum he's getting coaching from to be reacted to different.

I also just listened back to what I just said, and to be honest, it sounded really offensive. I don't mean anything by it, Yasu. Far too often have I had the Finger on me this early on, and it gets to you. Don't take it seriously, we're not all masters at this stuff first try. I jut wanted to get this out of the way. Damn this no editing rewording rule.

I don't know whether that last statement was to my fairly horrid sportsmanship or not, but I'm not at all giving up. I'll have a lot to say tomorrow.

Now I have to organize fortune cookies.