Could this be a new "golden age" of LEGO train?

[DaddyDeuce]

Hi all,

As I mentioned in my intro post on the community board I'm an AFOL just coming out of my dark ages. I'm completely new to LEGO train; even in my "early years" my play with only with brick and technic, train never entered my LEGO world then.

I've been slowly introducing my daughters to LEGO and we've begun putting together a little town. What started as the idea of having a train set going around the Christmas tree has turned into a minor obsession with understanding LEGO trains. I've done as much reading as I can to understand the history of LEGO train as one of the first decisions I had to make was whether to go with Power Functions or whether to purchase some second-hand 9V to build our system around.

In thinking about the history of LEGO train it dawned on me that *this* might be considered a new "golden age" due to the breadth of train related sets that have been released in the last few years. Just thing about everything that has been on the market in 2010-2011 and the groundwork that LEGO has laid for this hobby.

• The correction of some of the flaws of RC with the introduction of PF.
  
• Three separate complete train sets (7939, 3677, and 7938)
  
• Two detailed models for hobbyists (10194 and 10219)
  
• Two themed trains (4841 and 7597)
  
• Two different train stations (7997 and 7937)
  
• A new level crossing (7936)
  

Now granted, some of the train decisions LEGO has made have been questioned by the fan community. But when I look at the selection of what is available now (or has been available quite recently), and think about how PF could expand the options of train fans, it seems like this is quite an exciting new era for LEGO train.

Certainly this could be my "new-AFOL" excitement talking, and certainly train fans with a longer history will have a different perspective, but is anybody else impressed with the effort that LEGO has put into train recently?

Edited January 31, 2012 by DaddyDeuce

[eurotrash]

I was recently thinking along somewhat similar lines - though it was in the context of maybe that Lego Trains are one of the upgrade paths for junior Lego fans to follow once they are ready to move on from some of the themed product ranges. For sure, the golden days of Lego 9V may be history now, but I think there's enough vitality and launches to make the Lego Trains a really good product line for Lego.

I'm optimistic about the future!

[Hoexbroe]

What is missing, is a new HOBBY TRAIN set; With all the new pieces, and especially in all the new interesting colours; Dark green and dark red, -just to mention a couple of suggestions...

[woolie]

What's missing is Metroliner 3.0

[Toastie]

...

Certainly this could be my "new-AFOL" excitement talking, and certainly train fans with a longer history will have a different perspective, but is anybody else impressed with the effort that LEGO has put into train recently?

Hi DaddyDeuce,

very well; I am as excited as you are.

But you know what I find even more exciting? The ingenuity of the TLC folks in charge synchronizing the worlds of bricks. Over at the Technic Forum "they" are as excited about PF as "we" are. In fact maybe even more so; they go nuts on the PF stuff. In other words: PF seems to be a universal approach usable across virtually all LEGO themes. Now that is was I find truly amazing. And I agree, all the recent train specific sets are simply great. But again: All the new bits an pieces - with a few exceptions of course - may be rather appealing to other communities as well.

That is what makes TLC simply play in another league, in my opinion.

Regards,

Thorsten

[fred67]

"Golden Age?" Not IMO.

RC did suck, but while PF motors may have improved, the sets, IMO (that is, the complete train sets, with tracks and motors and so forth) are not that good, by comparison. The new trains pale in comparison to some of the older sets, both 12v and 9v.

It's true that the "hobbyist" sets are really amazing, but while the EN offers a lot of cool detail never before seen in a LEGO released steam engine, the overall levels of the sets are comparable to the BNSF (which is very close to the Maersk), the Sante Fe Super Chief, and the Hobby set. Moreover, you could do a lot with the Hobby set, and TLG group offered a lot of options for rolling stock (especially for the SFSC) that you don't see now.

Right now you need to be a good builder and have access to a lot of pieces in order to make decent rolling stock - and it costs more to do so than it would be to buy in a set. While you may have a lot more options as a LEGO modeller, most of us either aren't that creative, have the time, or the extra money it takes to make them. The Sante Fe cars had multiple cars with different configurations; the EN had one car with no more available separately - and those pieces to make your own are not readily available from PAB in the "correct" colors, and are relatively expensive on BL.

Regardless of ability to create MOCs, the "golden age" of LEGO trains shouldn't rely on MOCers, it's up to TLG to make it the golden age - if great sets aren't available to the average LEGO builder, I don't see how it can be the "Golden Age."

I could go on about batteries vs. electric rail - both ways have their merits, but "auxiliary" sets were definitely better - stations, 12v electric points and gates and lights... there's no comparison.

Lastly, the controls for RC are terrible. With a speed regulator you set the speed and let it go... the new controls you turn and hope that the signal went through. If it didn't you turn it again, and again... the only benefit being that it's "remote." That's not an indictment against battery or remote controls, but the infra red sucks and the way the remotes and receivers works suck by comparison to other remote control systems... it COULD have been so much better.

I think they just weren't making a lot of money with trains and had to cut back, and the remotes and receivers they decided to use are based solely on being cheap, not good. Maybe a $200 set to have decent remote capabilities just wasn't viable... but if the operation of the sets sucks because of it, then it can hardly be a "golden age." Might be OK for kids... but I suppose that's the point.

On top of all that... (I know, sorry, take a breath), the TRACK options are terrible now. 9v = you could buy packs of straight rails, or you could buy packs of curved rails, you could buy crossings, you could buy switches. When they switched to PF we complained you had to buy curved along with straight, so what happened? Now you can't buy curved at all, and there's no crossing at all. How's that better?

I think LEGO train fans are "second class" citizens for TLG, now. I'm happy they still make train sets and tracks and so forth, but I'm certain we're not as big a concern as we used to be. The only reason this "era" even works for me is because of the availability of stuff on BL and because of companies like ME Models.

So... no, I don't think of this as a LEGO Train "golden age" in the least. Strictly my opinion, of course, I respect that others are happy with PF - but it's not even really "battery operated" that bothers me - I don't think they did it well, even if the motor itself is good. I don't like the track options, and I haven't bought an R/C or PF "complete" set at all - I just didn't like them. Some of you with kids may have had fun with them, and that's cool - I just didn't like them.

[mikka says]

What's missing is Metroliner 3.0

anyone say a PF-metroliner?,

oh yes...

[lightningtiger]

We can only call it a "golden age" when we get more support products like train related buildings, vehicles and of course different rolling stock.

Especially the 9 Volt era, there was different stations, freight handling systems, etc., that was a "golden age"....I think most of the old school Lego train buffs would agree.

[eurotrash]

We can only call it a "golden age" when we get more support products like train related buildings, vehicles and of course different rolling stock.

Especially the 9 Volt era, there was different stations, freight handling systems, etc., that was a "golden age"....I think most of the old school Lego train buffs would agree.

But the introduction of the Modular Building sets and the variety/quantities of bricks they contain HAS enabled MOC-er's the build their own train related structures. That's something we couldn't do in the Golden Ages.

[SavaTheAggie]

In spite of some opinions, we've got pretty good right now, so I would certainly say the graph is moving up.

But I think terms like "golden age" really should be reserved for times seeable only through the prism of history. For times where you know not only what came before, but what came after as well. Until then, I say we just enjoy the ride as long as it lasts.

--Tony

[spzero]

Being newly re-interested in lego and getting my first ever lego trains, owning the 9v, rc and power funtions, I can only say, we have the best of all worlds.

There is still plenty off 9v stuff on brick link / ebay at reasonable prices, I saw a mostly complete 9v set sell tonight including postage for £51.00, I lost by £1 (but to stick pf in a train costs this much) I think we forget that ebay does have bargains and tho its used it's not bad really, tlc could do better they promised more track choices with plastic track and have stopped making the only new piece of the double switch so they have let us down, flexible track has only limited use for most.

with the internet providing inspiration and availability of new and old parts we have it pretty good, but tlc need to do something great next or it might go a bit pear shaped, there are a lot of cheap building blocks out there and lego need to watch there prices, I mean work out a maersk, pf set with light's and lipo battery, charger, and track!!!!!!! thats one expensive train set.

so is it a golden age, i suppose it depends what you want from your trains for me it seams good, just need more money....

[Piranha]

There was last year one point on the shelves at a LEGO Store where you could see and buy these trains:

Maersk

Emerald Night

Red Cargo Train

Yellow Cargo Train

Passenger Train

Train Station

Level Crossing

Plus track etc

Definitely a great selection in a very long time. But we need more rolling stock, buildings, accompany sets, separate engines to be considered a golden age IMO. Although that lineup was pretty strong.

[medib]

If you ask me its the "bronze age" of trains.

The golden age being 12 Volt

The silver age being 9 Volt

And to be an "age" like people have already said maybe reissues of the metroliner, a sante fe superchief reissue with both an A and B

unit. and maybe perhaps a 4-6-4 steam engine to replace the discontinued emerald night.

[fred67]

There was last year one point on the shelves at a LEGO Store where you could see and buy these trains:

Maersk

Emerald Night

Red Cargo Train

Yellow Cargo Train

Passenger Train

Train Station

Level Crossing

Plus track etc

Definitely a great selection in a very long time. But we need more rolling stock, buildings, accompany sets, separate engines to be considered a golden age IMO. Although that lineup was pretty strong.

The problem is, and it's entirely my opinion of course, is the sets are nothing special at all. The stand-alone sets (Maersk and EN) are fabulous, but so were the Santa Fe Super Chief, the BNSF, the hobby train... Aside from that, we've always had stations, tracks, crossings, switches... but we've also had our choice to buy straight OR curves (now you can't even buy new curves), we also had crossings (X); 12v had electronic switches and signal lights... and there's a dearth of rolling stock at present that seemed copious in the past. MOT was fantastic, but TLG wasn't happy with the profits - we're "victims" of capitalism (I don't begrudge TLG their decisions, though, I'd rather they be profitable in the long run - I also don't begrudge capitalism in the least, but you don't always get what you want).

If you ask me its the "bronze age" of trains.

[...]

Agreed... and I don't even have any 12v stuff, but I recognize it, looking at the things that were available for it, as being the most "comprehensive" LEGO train system.

It may even be the case that we wouldn't even have powered trains right now at all if they didn't make PF cross theme. It seems to me TLG wasn't happy with the performance of trains at all when they discontinued 9v.

[BrickMark]

Hello,

I am partly agreeing with the OP. However as born again Lego fan coming from the 12V era a lot more interresting sets have to come out as well as auxiliary equipment to match the quality, originality and diversity of what was available during the 80's.

Although the internet helps tremendously with (re)creating the best objects ever, still a lot is missing to call this a Golden Age.

Like a poster before me said: It is more like a Bronze Age.

But it could be indeed become a new Golden Age. I'm sure everybody will hope for this!

[Piranha]

The problem is, and it's entirely my opinion of course, is the sets are nothing special at all. The stand-alone sets (Maersk and EN) are fabulous, but so were the Santa Fe Super Chief, the BNSF, the hobby train... Aside from that, we've always had stations, tracks, crossings, switches... but we've also had our choice to buy straight OR curves (now you can't even buy new curves), we also had crossings (X); 12v had electronic switches and signal lights... and there's a dearth of rolling stock at present that seemed copious in the past. MOT was fantastic, but TLG wasn't happy with the profits - we're "victims" of capitalism (I don't begrudge TLG their decisions, though, I'd rather they be profitable in the long run - I also don't begrudge capitalism in the least, but you don't always get what you want).

I think you misunderstood my post. What I was saying was that when TLG decided to discontinue 9v Trains there was huge uncertainty and unrest. Then in 2006 they released the RC system, I thought it was a neat idea but very poor execution and only two sets and track were released. Not counting the Hobby Train (I count that as more of a Creator set than part of the Train theme) they didn't make any new Trains until 2009 with the Emerald Night (which I would consider a D2C set) and in 2010 they finally released SYSTEM Trains. Folllowed up by the Maersk and Red Cargo Train. All of those trains were based on the PF system. PF was unproven with the Emerald Night, no one wanted to spend $250+ to make a running train, so TLG worked on it and gave us more affordable PF's Trains providing you happen to have the batteries. Now the PF system is getting better and it has it flaws and downsides but also many positives. I can't wait to see what train sets they are working on next. What I am saying is that since the discontiuantion of 9v Trains we hadn't seen a real strong lineup of Train sets until now. IMO the Maersk and Emerald are better and more complete train sets than the stand alone BNSF and Super Chief. Again I wouldn't label this as the "golden age" of Power Functions maybe a bronze age. Again nothing has come that can compare to the "golden age" of 9v or even 12v Trains. But we are talking about a different era here, the Power Function Era and IMHO it is off to a great start.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Macoco

[Steinkopf]

The term golden age is dependant on what context you put it in, as far as sets are concerned there was far more variety back in the days of 12v and 9v, the current range of PF Trains does offer more variety though compared to the final days of 9v and the defunct IR trains range, where I see the golden age of trains being is the good availability of parts. When I first got into trains in 2003 the availability of parts for trains was not that great even on Bricklink and EBay, the prices for train parts in general back then was expensive as well, these days due to PAB, Bricklink and the mix of parts in sets the prices have gone down substantially. You only have to look at the prices such as red and green train doors as well as the part ref 4511 sliding doors, these items were very expensive back then red train doors in used condition for example used to sell for $7.00 US a piece, train buffers and wheels also used to be quite expensive.

For me personally the "Golden Age for Trains" is not in what sets are available it's with the opportunities that exist for builders, the large selection and availability of parts give train builders more building options than ever before. There are many people that whinge that Lego should offer more sets of individual wagons or coaches, I have watched the debate where people are demanding TLG to produce additional coaches for the Emerald Night, to be frank those arguments have no merit. If TLG does not make what you want make it yourself it's not that hard, Lego trains have a distinct advantage over traditional model railways in that it gives you that ability to make what you want easily, anyone who has had to scratchbuild or kitbash traditional model railway stock can testify to that. For 20 years I built traditional model railways and had to do a lot of kitbashing to make rolling stock that was not produced by the manufacturers, many model rail fans including myself have had to wait for up to 30 years in some cases for locomotives they would like to have to be produced in a ready to run form, some examples are the recent releases from Bachmann the ROD 2-8-0 and GWR 32xx Dukedog 4-4-0 locomotives which many British modellers have waited decades for. Certainly there are many things that we would like TLG to produce but in all practicality this is not possible, however Lego being the fantastic construction medium that it is we have far more options at our disposal compared to our traditional model rail counterparts.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Steinkopf

[Cwetqo]

There was last year one point on the shelves at a LEGO Store where you could see and buy these trains:

Maersk

Emerald Night

Red Cargo Train

Yellow Cargo Train

Passenger Train

Train Station

Level Crossing

Plus track etc

Definitely a great selection in a very long time. But we need more rolling stock, buildings, accompany sets, separate engines to be considered a golden age IMO. Although that lineup was pretty strong.

Add Harry Potter train and Toy Story train and we have selection like never before.

But I still think that golden era is 2001-2003 period.

We had:

10020 Santa Fe

10022 Sleeping Car

10022 Observation Car

10022 Dining Car

10025 Mail Car

10025 Baggage Car

10001 Metroliner

10002 Club Car

3740 Small locomotive

3741 Large locomotive

3742 Tender

10013 Open Freight Wagon

10014 Caboose

10015 Green Passenger Wagon

10016 Tanker

10017 Hopper Wagon

4512 Cargo Train

4511 High Speed Train

10027 Train Engine Shed

4513 Grand Central Station

10128 Level Crossing

4514 Cargo Crane

All that in two years! That was before LEGO almost went bankrupt and decided that this was not rational, so from then on we are getting fewer, but larger sets.

[tbroyd]

I think last year may have been a silver age perhaps with a great selection of sets available together with station & crossing.

Trouble is that so many of those sets are discontinued or soon to be (HP, Toy story, crossing, red passenger, yellow freight)that we may be entering another dark age with just the Maersk & red freight set available, no info on anything new soon - hardly a golden age? (at least it gives the wallet a rest!)

[Tearloch]

I think TLG realized that making individual rolling stock was not cost effective. They know from experience that the people that want extra rolling stock will simply pony up the cash to buy extra sets. How many people do you know that purchased multiple Maersk sets.....

I do wish they would get their act together a bit with the track options itself. I believe the double cross-over is discontinued, and the rail crossing would be nice to see again. Straight tracks, curved tracks, and the flex-track should all be offered on Pick A Brick. That would save them money and satisfy the masses.

As far as a golden age, I don't know. It definitely has picked up alot in the last 2 years. PF can be annoying, but the user factor is improved IMO and the system is not strictly for trains. This is a marketing and cost plus for TLG.

[spzero]

I think TLG realized that making individual rolling stock was not cost effective. They know from experience that the people that want extra rolling stock will simply pony up the cash to buy extra sets. How many people do you know that purchased multiple Maersk sets.....

I do wish they would get their act together a bit with the track options itself. I believe the double cross-over is discontinued, and the rail crossing would be nice to see again. Straight tracks, curved tracks, and the flex-track should all be offered on Pick A Brick. That would save them money and satisfy the masses.

As far as a golden age, I don't know. It definitely has picked up alot in the last 2 years. PF can be annoying, but the user factor is improved IMO and the system is not strictly for trains. This is a marketing and cost plus for TLG.

ta-dah as if by magic go see the now thread about track on pab!

[fred67]

ta-dah as if by magic go see the now thread about track on pab!

Except it's more cost effective to buy METAL rail from ME Models than plastic on PAB.

Something is screwy about that.

[brickbuilder711]

If LEGO keeps going at this rate, we could be expecting a golden train age. The system is fairly versatile as it is if someone got into the hobby in the last year or so and I like the PF idea.

All I am dreaming of is more American rolling stock. If they make an "American freight train" with a CSX (they also have a big part in eco-friendly transporation motives) locomotive pulling a gondola of scrap, boxcar, tanker, et al things will just be perfect. But then again, I like the challenge of innovating trains ourselves, and a modern Hobby Train would be a nice option with a different palette.

[Jay Sathe]

All I am dreaming of is more American rolling stock. If they make an "American freight train" with a CSX (they also have a big part in eco-friendly transporation motives) locomotive pulling a gondola of scrap, boxcar, tanker, et al things will just be perfect. But then again, I like the challenge of innovating trains ourselves, and a modern Hobby Train would be a nice option with a different palette.

The Maersk train sounds fairly close to what you are asking for, and if you megablocks the Maersk loco to the cars from the red and yellow cargo trains, you pretty much have everything you could want!

American loco - Maersk

Gondola - Ballast car from Red Cargo

Boxcar - Red Cargo

Tanker - Yellow Cargo

Plus 4 flatcars (2 Maersk well cars and 2 from the Yellow Cargo train)

[LEGO Guy Bri]

I think the golden age, for me, encompassed the 1990's. IThis was my era, had I been a 60's, 70's, or 80's I would have a different opinion. They both shared the option of individual rolling stock, but the 9V has the same track used today, minus the metal of course. The 9V also has better looking train sets, IMHO. If I had to choose between the Metroliner or the current Passenger Train, it's the metro, easy. I also believe the 9V is a better system. It goes any where, doesn't require batters (I really hate batteries), there are no interference or signal blocking issues, and my main pet peeve about PF, the space taken up by the equipment.

Then again, it's all in what generation appeals to you the most.

When it comes to sets, like the Santa Fe, Hobby Train, Maersk, EN, BNSF, MOT, etc, I don't count them. Power is extra. I look at it like I do City and Modulars. What do you prefer Classic 4W (9V) or Modern 6W (PF)? Modulars are more modern, but they are also more realistic models, like those listed trains. Kind of their own class