Horatio Posted January 17, 2012 What did they do with the posts around the capstan? Considering that those bars stuck out pretty far, did they have to remove the posts that the bars would bump into? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Blackbeard Posted January 18, 2012 They didn't need to. There were no posts around the capstan. The capstan isn't located in the hold, so there's no posts around it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Foremast Jack Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) Yes, they were removed when not in use. (A fully shipped drumhead would take up nearly the full length of beam on deck.) When not in use they were stored on what is called the gallows. This was the cross-grated area around the hatchways in the waist of the ship. (Under the skid-beams: the place the ships various small boats were stored). note: this is for a frigate or other "flush-decked" ship. Ships of the line were a bit different. The bars there being stored on the appropriate deck usually on hooks hanging from the over-head.) I would also like to take this opportunity to shamelessly plug my capstan tutorial. They didn't need to. There were no posts around the capstan. The capstan isn't located in the hold, so there's no posts around it. I think you mistook his meaning here captain. By "post" he means "bar" not "stanchion" as I believe you take him to mean. __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ edit: I think I read and spoke a bit too hastily. Captain Blackbeard I think I actually misunderstood his question. As Blackbeard pointed out, on a frigate (or other ship where the drumhead was on the main deck) there was nothing to obscure the capstan bars going round. On larger ships of the line, that immediate area was simply designed so that nothing was in the way at the height of the capstan bars. Edited January 18, 2012 by Foremast Jack Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bart Posted January 18, 2012 My link Scroll down there is a thing about the capstan on the middle gun deck. And a part about the posts surrounding it. Posts being the vertical suports for the deck above. Bart Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sebeus I Posted January 18, 2012 Those posts, they are the pillars supporting the deck ? (sorry, can't find a proper translation). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Blackmoor Posted January 18, 2012 I also thought they placed the bars around a mast when not in use. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Foremast Jack Posted January 18, 2012 My link Scroll down there is a thing about the capstan on the middle gun deck. And a part about the posts surrounding it. Posts being the vertical suports for the deck above. Bart I really don't think those metal posts support the deck. If they are removable it kind of defeats the purpose of them being there. Those posts, they are the pillars supporting the deck ? (sorry, can't find a proper translation). Posts like that (as a say above I don't think they support the deck) I'm really not sure what they are used for or if they have a specific name. Posts like these do support the above deck and they are called "stanchions". I also thought they placed the bars around a mast when not in use. A picture of a mast. Those are pikes to repel borders. Whilst it is possible that they could have stored around the mast I've only ever heard of them being stored on the gallows (for a frigate), like I say above, but I definitely don't know everything. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bart Posted January 18, 2012 I really don't think those metal posts support the deck. If they are removable it kind of defeats the purpose of them being there. (...) I thought they were there to give the ship extra strength when in battle or when under sail because then you do not use the capstan. You only use it to lift the anchor or to deploy launches or barges. Then the capstan is only used when the ship is dead in the water i.d. not moving. But that is just a thought Bart Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Foremast Jack Posted January 18, 2012 I know you're right about them folding away for the use of the capstan, but if they were bearing a load then they wouldn't be removable. But I think you are right. It's the only thing that makes any kind of sense. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kurigan Posted January 19, 2012 The removable posts may have something to do with removable bulkheads for dividing up the space below deck. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Foremast Jack Posted January 19, 2012 I find it humorous that we are so intent on discussing something that has no real bearing for the audience here, since no one builds an historical ship larger than a frigate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sebeus I Posted January 19, 2012 The load they might bear changes depending on what the ship is doing I guess so I'm with Bart, they are probably extra supports, not so critical, maybe just to reduce the cracking sound the wooden deck makes ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bart Posted January 19, 2012 I find it humorous that we are so intent on discussing something that has no real bearing for the audience here, since no one builds an historical ship larger than a frigate. That is not entirely true, there are some people here building full scale ship of the lines. I know Captain Green Hair is building the Prins Willem and Tedie is building the Victory and there are some others which I can't think of right now. And if I'm speaking for myself I'm always interested in this kind of things :D Bart Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horatio Posted January 19, 2012 Despite the fact that capstans on frigates are on the quarterdeck, the cooresponding capstan below has slots for bars. I also know that on the Constitution, the gangways in the way of the bars lifted up on hinges- but I didn't know if that was the norm, and also if it applied to the posts. It would make sense though that since the capstan is used in calm, that the posts could be removed for a short period of time. In general, the beams should have been able to stay up on their own, but the posts probably just added a little more support. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Foremast Jack Posted January 19, 2012 Despite the fact that capstans on frigates are on the quarterdeck, the cooresponding capstan below has slots for bars. I take it you're saying here that the capstan had dual drumheads. (the drumhead is the slotted part where one would insert the capstan bar. I also know that on the Constitution, the gangways in the way of the bars lifted up on hinges- but I didn't know if that was the norm, and also if it applied to the posts. Some of your terminology here has me a bit confused, but the Constitution was definitely not the norm. Most U.S. frigates built at this time were considered "heavy frigates." Ships more akin to ships-of-the-line than frigates proper. Also, "gangways" weren't movable objects because they weren't in the way of anything. They were the parts of deck on the sides of the waist which connected the fo'c'sle and quarter-deck. I think you're talking about the grating covered hatch-ways that were right around the drumhead. These were sometimes raised as much as a foot higher than the deck. But they would have had to remained closed when the "capstan's pawlin'" so that no one would tumble down hatchway with "loudly the butcher callin'" It would make sense though that since the capstan is used in calm, that the posts could be removed for a short period of time. In general, the beams should have been able to stay up on their own, but the posts probably just added a little more support. That makes sense, and seeing how I have no surety of knowledge as to the pivoting posts' purpose I'm inclined to agree. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Foremast Jack Posted January 20, 2012 So I did some poking around to get some definitive answers for us all on this topic. This is what I found. As we discussed there are two different types of pillars used: the iron posts and the wooden stanchions. It turns out that both of these are called "stanchions." The iron ones right around the capstan's drumhead pivot out of the way (as we knew). They pivot from the top and hook into the over-head to secure out of the way for weighing of the anchor. As for the wooden stanchions: they are also removable (which I did not realize). They would be removed with a device called a "beam-jack." It would wedge between the deck (floor) and beam (ceiling) to push it apart enough to remove the stanchions. It seems the stanchions were only needed when the ship was underway to prevent her hull from twisting, sagging, and hogging. (Hogging is where the bow and stern droop down and the keel raises up.) Since the anchor is only weighed while she is at rest the stanchions wouldn't have been needed and thus could be removed. (As Bart so rightly pointed out.) So to answer your question Horatio, if you're going to design and build the stanchions in around the capstan they need to be removable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Blackmoor Posted January 21, 2012 On the Batavia they clamped the capstan bars to the ceiling when not in use. But that's a ship of the 17th century, and it wouldn't be unthinkable things like this changed in the +/- 200 years after 1620. Perhaps there are even differences between the details of capstans on merchant and navy ships. Oh and I'm sure some people around here are building larger ships then a frigate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dafi Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) Coming from a "historic building" forum I would like to confirm Foremast Jacks statement. Wonderfully researched! Just for amusement a link for some sea cadets working the capstans on HMS Implacable, jumping the guns :-) http://www.britishpathe.com/video/jill-afloat Alöl the best, Daniel Edited January 28, 2012 by dafi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
