Discussion Should LEGO make a Military Theme?

[Itaria No Shintaku]

Just two questions.

1 - Why reviving a Necro topic? :)

2 - Is anyone aware that green bricks were procuded later than other colors because lego was afraid people would have built tanks over them? They haven't considered even a soldier in the minifigures series. There is NO chance that Lego will produce army, soldiers, or this stuff. Army/modern warfare-related stuff or religious-related stuff are two dogmatic NO for Lego.

[Arigomi]

This topic gets revived every once in a while since TLG has eased up on its theme restrictions over the years.

Even if you ignore the social issues, a military theme wouldn't make much money. The world has changed a lot since the 1980s when G.I. Joe was at its peak. Hasbro is only keeping that property alive to cash in on the limited nostalgia factor. The best you can hope from TLG is generic vehicle builds from Creator or Technic. It is unlikely that a military theme could ever come close to matching the successs of Ninjago or Friends themes.

[DPrime]

Wii they/won't they aside, I think WW1 would be a really fun theme. That sounds odd, I know, but there's a really interesting mix of old, 19th century elements (outlandish uniforms, cavalry, etc.) and modern that would make for a cool theme.

I'd like to see a doughboy and German with spikes helmet someday, at least.

[Dorayaki]

I much prefer fantasy/sci-fi inspired military-like designs such as those in Alien Conquest and Dino Attack, and I'm not even all that interested in those.

I think it's hard to find which kind of reference TLG can use in their designs. In Castle or Space, they can easily come up with a kind of historical or fictional creature to use. However, when we want to make a realistic military theme, which kind of reference can we use? Religious organization? Terrorists? No, both could violate the rule of TLG's guideline for the market and those groups would be offensed.

The most possible way is something like Octan from The Lego Movie, who secretly owns a private army and plans to take over the world, and it doesn't reflect on any real-world groups. Or if there are good movie licenses with "safe" military materials (eg, the green army from Toy Story, or the mentioned Indiana Jones), TLG can still do it by getting them.

I guess toys are still good with adventure and fun rather than politics and violence. The latter could be some kind of interest of AFOLs, but not for kids for educational reasons.

Edited December 15, 2013 by Dorayaki

[rodiziorobs]

Wii they/won't they aside, I think WW1 would be a really fun theme. That sounds odd, I know, but there's a really interesting mix of old, 19th century elements (outlandish uniforms, cavalry, etc.) and modern that would make for a cool theme.

I agree, the odd combination of medieval and modern would make for some very interesting models, and even more interesting minifigs (as you mention, the German helmet would be a very cool part).

My two bits: I don't see it ever happening;war other than fantasy or fiction is something TLG neither needs nor wants to be associated with. Even if they did produce it, it would be impossible to market. What would the theme even be called? WWI? Imagine that plastered on a LEGO box in your local Target. It would be seen disrespectful and dishonorable, two things the most trusted brand on the planet would never bring upon itself.

The only way to skirt that issue would be to release some commemorative museum-type set with uniforms (on blank-faced plain white mannequin minifigs) and artillery, but even then I don't see it ever happening--it simply doesn't fit the brand, and it will never fit the target market.

As far as LEGO is concerned, let war be the domain of third-parties and clone brands.

[JeagerEX]

How about some aircraft like B2 Spirit, F-16 Fighting Falcon or an F117A Nighthawk is that ok to let LEGO do that? But without minifigures and any of the armament, just like a model of an aircraft.

If LEGO could not do this what about an experimental aircraft that they use for test flight or a space craft(besides Space Shuttle or Rocket which are already produced)?

[TheOrcKing]

On one hand, it would be neat if Lego did do a military theme, but on the other, I for one am glad they do not nor ever will. Lego is a kids toy and perhaps some of the 'innocence' is from never touching a full-on warfare product line. Sure, there were some militant referances with Indiana Jones but that was part of the film, and it isn't like you see Indiana Jones and just think "Oh, Nazis!". Yes, Star Wars is full of battle scenes and whatnot but that is another story.

On a personal note, I would rather leave all the war builds for the fans and leave Lego (the company) out of it. If I feel like building an Abrams tank or Shinden aircraft, that will be my choice.

Edited December 24, 2013 by TheOrcKing

[Hrw-Amen]

I think it would be wrong for them to make military sets of any kind from an era that people are still alive from and suffering the consequences of, for example WWII. I can understand that they make those red coats and blue coat soldiers that are fairly bland and lacking in icons, however it is still quite easy for people to associate the red coats with the British army of the era, and I assume the blue ones with the French, at least that is how I see it. B ut it does not matter as much as it is mixed up with pirates they can both fight against and no one is around from that era to feel offended.

If TLG is still making LEGO in a hundred years time they well may then make some green army men, of grey or brown ones as differing forces. People will make up their own minds who they are supposed to be like we do now with the pirate range soldiers. But everyone alive at the time it took place will be long gone so it is less likely to offend especially if they just call then green and brown soldiers for example.

Perhaps with the passage of time and another twenty years or so we maybe on the cusp of then doing something WWi'ish although not specifically named as to who is who. That will be OK as all those who took part and for the most part their children will have past on. But not before that.

But right now it is not going to happen and that is the right choice in my opinion. It is a minefield and all too easy to get into and hard to get themselves out of. But it is a building toy, if anyone wants to make there own, then they should feel free to do so, but don't expect anything just yet from TLG themselves.

[gherkin]

Just to throw it in there regarding reference to planes and ww1 they have produced the Sopwith Camel (twice), would be nice to see a fokker tri plane. Sets wise though, although nice I'm not fussed, would prefer to see detailed creator versions

[Faefrost]

As in all things with Lego context is everything. I would not be surprised if they were to do a set of a more modern aircraft along the lines of the Sopwith Cammel or Fokker Tri plane. But it would at best be something more of a model. Just as while Lego does not do anything overtly religious as part of a theme, I would not be surprised to see a particular Cathedral, Temple or Mosque show up as an Architectural subject. You can only ignore stuff like Notre Dame for so long.

My guess would be if they were to do a modern fighter jet, it would be done in the colors and markings of an exibition team, and not a combat aircraft. Thunderbirds, Blue Angels, Red Devils etc.

[Itaria No Shintaku]

I would not be surprised to see a particular Cathedral, Temple or Mosque show up as an Architectural subject.

I instead would. And most AFOLs would too.

Just think the Jabba Palace was cancelled and it's out of production because of this reason....

[CMP]

Just think the Jabba Palace was cancelled and it's out of production because of this reason....

I thought that was just a clever move on the part of LEGO. Didn't they more or less say they would stop producing the set at roughly same time they would to stop producing it anyway?

[Itaria No Shintaku]

I thought that was just a clever move on the part of LEGO. Didn't they more or less say they would stop producing the set at roughly same time they would to stop producing it anyway?

I don't think so. I think they could have produced it for another half a year.

[BrickBuilder3213]

Maybe if they didn't base ANY of the vehicles or figures on real events or people and made it as child-friendly as possible, perhaps this could work.

Maybe it could be less of a war theme and more of a "Army Vs Monster Of The Week" kind of deal, where the Lego City Army has to defend the city from various large monsters. For example: giant spiders, dinosaurs, a giant monster made from ooze (or rubbery plastic), zombies... The list is endless!

[KisKatona]

Wow, this thing is still alive.

Going back to see what everyone has said, I can't help but agree with what a lot of you are saying. But I'd sill like to see a military-esque set. Some soldiers in the new olive green color, a simple tank or helicopter, something like that. No enemies, just one faction. Like a National Guard of sorts for the City.

[BasOne]

As has been said this discussion get's revived a few times a year by someone or another.

But reading all of the posts there is a recurring theme 'all conflict in lego themes is fictional' ... well i beg to differ.

Pirates vs. royal navy, battles actualy took place it's not something just out of the movies, theres nothing fictional about that....

Indians vs US Army, well i don't think need to mention Custers last stand.....

Knights vs knight vs knights vs bandits Europe's history is filled with midevil warfare.

TLG has done actual conflict themes.

Just because they are historical doesn't mean they are fictional.

My 2 cents on that.

On a military theme, no i don't think they should.

They could do individual vehicles as 'modelteam' builds like the Camel and Fokker Tri-Plane though.

Edited December 28, 2013 by BasOne

[Itaria No Shintaku]

TLG has done actual conflict themes.

Just because they are historical doesn't mean they are fictional.

I agree on that, so since they are historical, kids are not inspired to dress like a pirate, take a cutlass and become a pirate.

[BasOne]

I agree on that, so since they are historical, kids are not inspired to dress like a pirate, take a cutlass and become a pirate.

Actually, kids DO dress up as Pirates and Knights, but it's more movie inspired then LEGO :D

Allthough didn't LEGO sell children sized Knights Kindom swords?

And what kid didn't play soldier?

It never inspired me to become one..

Edited December 29, 2013 by BasOne

[Aanchir]

Actually, kids DO dress up as Pirates and Knights, but it's more movie inspired then LEGO :D

Allthough didn't LEGO sell children sized Knights Kindom swords?

And what kid didn't play soldier?

It never inspired me to become one..

I didn't play soldier, but perhaps I grew up in an era where military conflicts were treated with more of a sense of grim seriousness than a sense of glory. We appreciated and honored those who served the United States in our armed forces, but at least for me there was an understanding that war was a "necessary evil", not something I ever wanted to be a part of. It was a departure from the life I was used to, but unlike the sense of escapism I got from pretending to be a knight or pirate or super hero, the concept was more "chilling" than "thrilling".

I think the real difference between 20th century military conflicts and the earlier conflicts explored in themes like Castle and Pirates is that despite how much war has changed since World War I, the imagery is still frighteningly close to what families are familiar with from real-life news coverage. By painting a veneer of spaceships, ninjas, aliens, robots, anthropomorphized animals, or any kind of fantasy over things like tanks and fighter aircraft, it becomes less familiar, and thus, less scary. Earlier conflicts, on the other hand, do not need to be separated from reality on such a profound level because the reality they are presenting is already centuries apart from the reality that today's kids and families have experienced.

[BasOne]

I didn't play soldier, but perhaps I grew up in an era where military conflicts were treated with more of a sense of grim seriousness than a sense of glory. We appreciated and honored those who served the United States in our armed forces, but at least for me there was an understanding that war was a "necessary evil", not something I ever wanted to be a part of. It was a departure from the life I was used to, but unlike the sense of escapism I got from pretending to be a knight or pirate or super hero, the concept was more "chilling" than "thrilling".

Might also have been the country you are living in.

Apart from WW2 The Netherlands has never been a significant part of any major conflict,

Vietnam, Bosnia, The Gulf Wars mostly passed us by, and in the latter we had no troops on the front line at al just some aircraft.

The last major conflict we had a major part in was Korea.

I think the real difference between 20th century military conflicts and the earlier conflicts explored in themes like Castle and Pirates is that despite how much war has changed since World War I, the imagery is still frighteningly close to what families are familiar with from real-life news coverage. By painting a veneer of spaceships, ninjas, aliens, robots, anthropomorphized animals, or any kind of fantasy over things like tanks and fighter aircraft, it becomes less familiar, and thus, less scary. Earlier conflicts, on the other hand, do not need to be separated from reality on such a profound level because the reality they are presenting is already centuries apart from the reality that today's kids and families have experienced.

That might all be true, the battles were no less gruesome.

Infact, it's 'cleaner' te be killed by a bullit then a battleaxe...

[Ralph_S]

Might also have been the country you are living in.

Apart from WW2 The Netherlands has never been a significant part of any major conflict,

Vietnam, Bosnia, The Gulf Wars mostly passed us by, and in the latter we had no troops on the front line at al just some aircraft.

The last major conflict we had a major part in was Korea.

No offence, but I think the friends, relatives and colleagues of the 25 Dutch servicemen who were killed in Afghanistan would beg to differ.

[Hrw-Amen]

I have to agree that I think the main problem with them producing something that looks like a tank is that regardless of if it is a WWII tank or a modern MBT, essentially in LEGO it is a grey or green box on tracks with a gun in a turret. The difference in looks is not that great. Even looking at a WWI tank, although many did not have turrets they were still boxes with tracks and guns.

Most of the older conflict themes, pirates, knights are so far removed from our modern military that they do not even look the part so can easily be relegated to a historical context. Maybe in a few years if tanks become a thing of the past, a bit like the battleship, which I gather from recent conflicts seems to be the way it is going then LEGO will not have a problem producing a generic one as it will not be something that is so easily connected to a modern day army. But that day is not yet here, and as much as we may like it to be, they are quite rightly (In my opinion.) not going to produce anything like that until we do reach that point in history and then some on top of it just for good measure. Otherwise we would by now already have a model of a battleship, as obsolete as these now are they are still in our living memory!

[Lyichir]

I have to agree that I think the main problem with them producing something that looks like a tank is that regardless of if it is a WWII tank or a modern MBT, essentially in LEGO it is a grey or green box on tracks with a gun in a turret. The difference in looks is not that great. Even looking at a WWI tank, although many did not have turrets they were still boxes with tracks and guns.

Most of the older conflict themes, pirates, knights are so far removed from our modern military that they do not even look the part so can easily be relegated to a historical context. Maybe in a few years if tanks become a thing of the past, a bit like the battleship, which I gather from recent conflicts seems to be the way it is going then LEGO will not have a problem producing a generic one as it will not be something that is so easily connected to a modern day army. But that day is not yet here, and as much as we may like it to be, they are quite rightly (In my opinion.) not going to produce anything like that until we do reach that point in history and then some on top of it just for good measure. Otherwise we would by now already have a model of a battleship, as obsolete as these now are they are still in our living memory!

One problem with the idea of today's military vehicles becoming acceptable at some point in the future is that surplus weaponry and vehicles from this century's conflicts have a nasty habit of reappearing in the hands of militants and extremists who can't afford the kind of R&D that superpowers like the U.S., Russia, and China have. This slows the rate at which even World War II-era weaponry passes out of the public consciousness. On top of that, video footage of the atrocity of conflicts as far back as Vietnam is sure to be maintained far into the future, which has a good chance of keeping future generations from universally romanticizing modern warfare the way many did with medieval warfare or the age of piracy. And finally, conflicts as far back as America's Revolutionary War also involve nations that exist to the modern day (as did the age of piracy, but it had the benefit of being more or less stateless due to all nations alternatingly opposing piracy and employing pirates as privateers). Toys of conflicts that a given person's country explicitly lost are likely to sell more poorly in said country, which is a risky proposition for a global company such as Lego.

[Rufus]

Why reviving a Necro topic? :)

Better that than starting a new thread. That's why it's in the index.

[BasOne]

No offence, but I think the friends, relatives and colleagues of the 25 Dutch servicemen who were killed in Afghanistan would beg to differ.

And my nephew would be one of them.

But how much media attention does it get in The Netherlands?

How many soldiers do we in total have in conflict zones?

The Netherlands is a small country with a small military.

We never play a major role, allways a supporting role wich is allways downplayed.