Has TLC finally gotten it right?

[Sting]

Not until Lego brings back an old classic castle theme and pirates will they be on the right track.

Not to mention some classic trains as well as a new WW theme (OK, I suppose I'm getting unrealistic now).

But I really do long for classic castle and pirates. KK just doesn't cut it!

I agree Brickster, but we gotta consider why lego doesnt have a classic line coming out. I think Lego could easily make an up to date (which means undated looking) TRUE Castle and TRUE Pirate line, and they would sell well, but they are obviously with have reasons for not doing this. The only thing CLASSIC About a Castle Line Lego should release is either old sets (rereleases) or just make a Castle line with LOTS of QUALITY again! I would love new factions, figures, the addition of all the new colors and pieces, but just new factions and new, cool, and quality set designs.

Damn now I am getting greedy.

Wild West would be amazing... but it didn't do to well the first time and I somehow doubt it will do well this time.

Unless Lego shifts its target buyers to AFOLs (which they could, and would make tonnes of money), they will have to always keep up with latest trends. We, as only a fraction of lego buyers, are at mercy of the latest trends and what will sell unfortunately.

[Grrr]

We, as only a fraction of lego buyers, are at mercy of the latest trends and what will sell unfortunately.

To an extent I would have to disagree with this, lego, like any creative enterprise has the power to create the fashion, and make it cool.

I recently posted in this regard at Classic Castle, but will reiterate here. Lego hired some awesome designers (or more to my suspicion, sent them a large box of pieces and told them to make cool stuff), in the late 70's, which led to what I would regard as the golden era. The transition from Maxifig and the large model's of the '70s to the minifig was a remarkable one.

Jacob Jensen is an example I can think of, a lot of his design has won numerous awards, like the fine Bang and Olufsen Beomaster 3000 amplifier I am listening to, and he was also responsible for some of the changes at lego during the era.

These designers made the decisions which would form legoland/lego system as we still know it. Things like yellow people, the smiley, to scaling and other design traits, all the way down to the non-defined good/bad factions.

Particularly in the middle of the golden age, lego had enough critical mass that when the catalog came out, that was what children would use it to judge what was cool that year, and not judge it by the movies and whatnot of the time. When you walked into a store, the lego display was always in a prominent position, unreasonably large, and well stocked. Things like the Lego World shows completed the picture.

More recently however, some of the decisions in this regard have been reversed, rather then lego setting a lead, it has chosen to follow, something that analysts would lead you to believe is a requirement in the modern age. Take fleshies for example - to me they draw away from the essence of minifig. Would anyone watch the simpsons if they had realisticly coloured flesh and hair.

We also look to things like star wars and harry potter. Lego has chosen to follow the guide of another's fame; while this can be done quite successfully (as has been shown), many people will still have opinions on how untrue it is to the original - someone which lego historically would never have had issue with; and also; historically it would never have been affected by the staleness of the marques in the longer term (though very little in lego lasts enough to reach stale status these days).

While it is true that the market has changed, it is not true that this is an excuse for a once great company to go down on it's fame. There are many issues in todays society that affect TLC's direct (and unreliable) market - children. Firstly, they are in a media driven world, from a very young age they look to the various media to confirm that they conform to the ideals of this world, what is hot, and what is not, as such. Without spending near infinate money, TLC can never win that game. Particularly not as I know of exemplary kids who would rather be bored then have toys as they are too old for toys. Some people you can never please. (I work in a call centre, the same applies for adults as well).

That being said, there is only a small portion of the market that pays blind faith to big brother, another 80% is never going to be an issue, as they can be swayed, and hold at least some of their own opinion. These people, like us, will still make a rational decision and judgement based on face value.

That said, on the face of it; lego does not appear as nice as it once did. The patent is lost meaning more competition, and cheap chinese goods, both toys and consumer electronics, have flooded the market, while lego's costs have gone up due to increasing oil (plastic) prices. It doesn't represent the greatest value anymore.

Add to that the inferior packaging, some bad design, and the large box syndrome, and the customers psychology is quickly turned off. That is not only the end user, but also the retailer. I recently went to my local toy store to purchase a few sets released since July. The lego display was half way down the store, and only a third of what it was 10 years ago. Worse still, they didn't have the sets I wanted in stock, and weren't getting more in. That was toyworld, the monopoly toy store here in hamilton. So much for great christmas sales for lego if the retailer doesn't want to stock it. So I went to Kmart and the Warehouse, both of which stock a small range of lego, neither had the sets I wanted, and at the Warehouse there were quite a few recent sets that had been ripped open and retaped, that were now sitting unceremoniously in a bargain bin.

For lego to go from being stocked reliably and being available uniquitously, to now being a memory of itself, and only sparse traces being available anywhere, there are big issues. S@H would be ok, but the $80NZ freight has prevented me from ever using it, and if lego really wants to sell to children, a physical product will always have a better instant appeal.

A long yarn I know - I'm sure there is more, but I need sleep first. Have a long few days ahead, am going to be moving into the first home I own in the weekend.

[Zarkan]

Hey, no hard feelings. I respect your opionion just as I respect everybody elses on eurobricks, Sting. I was just stating mine as well. ;-)

Although, I have to say that building is still one of my favorite parts of a kit, and I don't agree that piece counts are down at all. I mean, just look at Exo-force, and you'll see what I mean!

And, also, I don't worship lego. I dislike the Fireboat, Grevious Starfighter, and the new racers for 2007. I just think that TLC really is making a leap foward from the glum 1997-2002 period. ;-)

[Sting]

Grrr

You bring up many good points. Perhaps you can offer some insight into what lego can do in the future. Lego is a company, and companies exist to make money. It is unfortunate, but with all the things you have said, it makes me wonder if Lego will ever be what it once was. I am 100% sure Lego will never be the #1 toy anymore (Lego Sales were at a max in 1993 I believe. It is surprising they lasted as long as they did with Video games coming out) due to video games (Most kids are into video games now. When I was growing up (I was in Kindergarten 1992-1993, so from 1992-1998), almost every boy in my classes had lego and enjoyed it and would talk about it.

Now, almost every kid talks about video games and computers. I actually don't know any children who were my brothers friends, or my girlfriends brothers friends who have more than maybe 1 set of Lego. (And children with AFOL are not considered the norm, so don't bring AFOL's children into this)

As you say, there are still small percentages of consumers who will not follow trends, but this is still a fraction, and Lego seemed to spoil itself with the idea it can always be a leading edge toy. It is a leading edge toy, but definately not a popular one.

What can Lego do? They have started following trends. Like you said, 15 years ago, Lego would have never made a product based on Spongebob Squarepants (if the character existed 15 years ago). Lets look at Lego's new themes...

Batman, Spongebob, Avatar, Star Wars, Harry Potter - although they have quality (most of the sets I have seen have lots of pieces, interesting designs, and acceptable amounts of figures - even the freakin Spongebob ones) - these are still following and will never be as PURE as older lego. Knights Kingdom is basically legos own attempt to make a TV Show Style World of characters. The main problem with Knights Kingdom unfortunately is still Juni0rized parts (Although the new figures and the new sets are still better)

I don't know whY i trailed off again into my dissapointment in lego, my main question to you Grrr is what do you suppose Lego do? You have said with the new media it is too hard for Lego to keep any young customers (as Lego was only incredibly fun if you were creative, even if you are only a little bit creative, Lego still was very fun), you have not told me how Lego can SHIFT the culture and become the trendsetter. I unfortunately disagree. I do not think Lego can do this anymore.

Hey, no hard feelings. I respect your opionion just as I respect everybody elses on eurobricks, Sting. I was just stating mine as well. ;-)

Although, I have to say that building is still one of my favorite parts of a kit, and I don't agree that piece counts are down at all. I mean, just look at Exo-force, and you'll see what I mean!

And, also, I don't worship lego. I dislike the Fireboat, Grevious Starfighter, and the new racers for 2007. I just think that TLC really is making a leap foward from the glum 1997-2002 period. ;-)

I concur. We agree Lego has gotten better, but there is still room for improvement.

(PS: I now really want that Airport :|)

[Minifig Lecturer]

I absolutely hate the lego sets of the last decade.

This is the reason why I stopped buying lego. I used to spend every penny I had on lego so TLC lost out on some regular income. I know one other friend and my bro who stopped buying it for the same reason. As Amanda said, TLC reduced quality and quantity of bricks in sets to save money. The Town lego sets seem to be downgrading at such a rate soon they will turn into Duplo.

Nowadays most lego cars dont even have roofs. One more brick saved.

I hate cars with no roofs. Look, I live in Ireland, its always raining, we NEED roofs!!!!

[Sting]

I absolutely hate the lego sets of the last decade.

This is the reason why I stopped buying lego. I used to spend every penny I had on lego so TLC lost out on some regular income. I know one other friend and my bro who stopped buying it for the same reason. As Amanda said, TLC reduced quality and quantity of bricks in sets to save money. The Town lego sets seem to be downgrading at such a rate soon they will turn into Duplo.

Nowadays most lego cars dont even have roofs. One more brick saved.

I hate cars with no roofs. Look, I live in Ireland, its always raining, we NEED roofs!!!!

I agree that the sets have been quite terrible and that new town is still weak compared to the old town. The best set of 2007 will probably be weak compared to an average set of the same size released in 1993. But, looking at town sets now compared to the pathetic Town Jr. Era - Lego is getting better. We have to admit that things are better than they were in 2000.

[Zarkan]

The best set of 2007 will probably be weak compared to an average set of the same size released in 1993.

When I look at the 2007 firestation, I really can't agree with that. X-D

I absolutely hate the lego sets of the last decade

The Batcave and Batwing? Viking Fortress and Ship? Police Station and Building Crane? Striking Venom? Jaba's Sail Barge, Slave I, and Vader's Tie Advanced? Royal King Castle? Technic Firetruck? Designer Mythical Creatures and Roaring Roadsters? Krusty Crab and Fire Nation Ship? etc etc etc...

You hate ALL OF THAT?

I really don't know what to say to that. 8-|

[Minifig Lecturer]

When I look at the 2007 firestation, I really can't agree with that. X-D

The Batcave and Batwing? Viking Fortress and Ship? Police Station and Building Crane? Striking Venom? Jaba's Sail Barge, Slave I, and Vader's Tie Advanced? Royal King Castle? Technic Firetruck? Designer Mythical Creatures and Roaring Roadsters? Krusty Crab and Fire Nation Ship? etc etc etc...

You hate ALL OF THAT?

I really don't know what to say to that. 8-|

Yes I do.

I think its overpriced rubbish. Pity the viking sets didnt come out in the 80s- early 90s, the TLC would have used more bricks in the sets then, and perhaps they wouldn't be a rip-off.

As for TLC having to resort to taking on other companies' trademarked ideas e.g. Batman, Star Wars, I think its SAD

[Zarkan]

As for TLC having to resort to taking on other companies' trademarked ideas e.g. Batman, Star Wars, I think its SAD

*Falls on the floor* I really quite think you're the first lego fan I've ever heard say that. EVER. From what I've read, lego fans and non-lego fans rejoiced over Starwars (brought quite a few people out of their dark ages!), and Batman brought simalar results. Hearing you say that all lisences are SAD makes me want to cry. :'-(

Pity the viking sets didnt come out in the 80s- early 90s, the TLC would have used more bricks in the sets then, and perhaps they wouldn't be a rip-off.

That also makes me want to cry. Vikings was the most popular new theme in years when it was released, both for kids and adults. And, rip off? The Fortress has over 1000 pieces, and it's only $70! Doesn't sound any more a rip off than the kits of the 90s... 8-|

If you truly think that, then I'm very sorry for you. Sorry that you really see no good in TLC today and won't until the go back to the style of the 90's (which looks a bit plain now, to me). You're probably the most anti 2006 lego fan I've seen on this forum (not meant as a insult, you'd probably agree), and I really wish something from that year would please you, just so you could go back to buying lego from the stores. :-(

[Sting]

That also makes me want to cry. Vikings was the most popular new theme in years when it was released, both for kids and adults. And, rip off? The Fortress has over 1000 pieces, and it's only $70! Doesn't sound any more a rip off than the kits of the 90s... 8-|

I love every Viking set... actually... i should say HALF of every Viking set. I love the Fortress, but I hate all the stupid ACTIONFIGURE pieces in them (which includes about 90% of the Monsters - very little TRUE Lego in those sets).

I imagine Calvin is talking about the hundreds (Im guessing) of pieces that aren't traditional Lego in the Viking Fortress. The Long Boat isn't very good, as the only good thing about it is the figures and the few cool details on it (I love the little barbeque in the middle). I agree that the monsters look really cool and that they are built and put together well, but I think they are a waste of money.

The Vikings were done pretty well. I liked the concept of the Monsters, but I think real lego pieces would have been better. Maybe if someone provides me with a part count that shows how many pieces go towards the Dragon and how many pieces go towards the Fortress, and I see it as worth the 100CDN it will be, maybe I will pick it up.

The new Firestation is pretty cool, but I do not think it is as cool as some of the older town sets. It is quite cool though. The 7093 Rescue Helicopter is probably the coolest Helicopter designed by Lego EVER... even compared to ALL of the town sets from the 80s and 90s(Pick it out... it is incredible).

Grievous, out of curiosity, when did you start collecting Lego?

[Zarkan]

but I hate all the stupid ACTIONFIGURE pieces in them (which includes about 90% of the Monsters - very little TRUE Lego in those sets).

Well, since I am a Bionicle fan, I really can't agree that Bionicle pieces are stupid and not true lego (bionicle is technic to me, and technic is true lego), but I can agree really actually think they don't really work that good with bionicle pieces. I would have prefered the monsters being brickbuilt like in the new Aquaraiders kits. The dragon, wolf, and serpent heads are AWESOME to me, however.

Grievous, out of curiosity, when did you start collecting Lego?

Oh, I started collecting lego way back when I was four or five (back in 1997 or 1998), so I missed out on many of the great kits of long ago. Despite that, I still have some older kits in my collection, and I have done plenty of research on the old kits before 1997. I am basing my opinions a lot on what I've seen online (I look at instruction, read reviews, look at piece inventories, etc), but also because the new kits still really feel like lego to me, since I have a fair amount of them as well as a fair amount of older kits. ;-)

[Axle]

Nowadays most lego cars dont even have roofs. One more brick saved.

I hate cars with no roofs. Look, I live in Ireland, its always raining, we NEED roofs!!!!

I also live Ireland,anyway,the cars do have roofs.The fire engine,the police cars,ambulance,you name it it has one.Exept one tiny digger:

But it annoys me that theres a new fire station coming out.Why? 1:I have all the old fire station sets(From 2005)And now they want me to buy more?2:I probably won't be allowed to get it. 3:All my friends will probably have it and go"My fire station is way better then yours".

Yours truly,Axle.

[Minifig Lecturer]

Here are some roofless cars collected during the last few years I (or more, my brother) bought lego (probably late 90s, early 00s)

The appearance of these type of car designs signified the start of lego going crap (for me).

Axle, it's true there are a lot of knackers in my lego city, but they did not nick the roofs :-)

I imagine Calvin is talking about the hundreds (Im guessing) of pieces that aren't traditional Lego in the Viking Fortress. The Long Boat isn't very good, as the only good thing about it is the figures and the few cool details on it (I love the little barbeque in the middle). I agree that the monsters look really cool and that they are built and put together well, but I think they are a waste of money.

Yes this is exactly part of what I meant. And I too think that the Vikings theme is a good theme. However themes come and go too fast these days , not just firestations :-(

Of course vikings never wore horns in their helmets, they weren't that weird.

If you truly think that, then I'm very sorry for you. Sorry that you really see no good in TLC today and won't until the go back to the style of the 90's (which looks a bit plain now, to me). You're probably the most anti 2006 lego fan I've seen on this forum (not meant as a insult, you'd probably agree), and I really wish something from that year would please you, just so you could go back to buying lego from the stores. :-(

I do agree and yes it's not an insult :-) I did buy two sets recently, my first proper (ie not old baseplates or plain bricks) sets in maybe 6 years. I bought 2 trucks called the Heavyloader. I didnt make the real sets though cos the scale is modern, i.e. the truck wouldnt fit on one half of a road like a truck is supposed too. But no harm, i bought two of these to make a suspension bridge :-) with the spare bricks Im making a crane for a railway yard..

I am desperate to buy some real lego. The shops dont have it. But soon I will get a credit card, hopefully, n get some old sets on ebay :-)

On a more positive note, I have finally finished the lighting of my stadium