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Horry

What are your questions when building ships?

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johohoo... folks! What happened to my thread?! :pir-oh3::pir-oh:

:pir-grin::pir_laugh2: Ha, nevermind, I find the talk intriguing and I'll include some of the issues in the tutorial I'm doing next. For me it wouldn't be a problem to leave the threads in here.

Oh, and just one more thing: Foremast Jack, welcome to Eurobricks! Great start you've made by participating in such a discussion. But could you resize your pictures to the EB-size-Limit of 800x600? Normally I wouldn't mind (especially for the last picture!) but right now I'm on tour and my mobile internet takes ages to load those beauties!

Edited by Horry

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okay I dived into my books and found what I was looking for.

Well deck is the correct translation for the Dutch 'kuildek'.

this name has been in use since 16th century the age of the galleons.

(the first notice of it I can find in my books)

the area between the forecastle and the quarterdecks was called the well.

in the days of the galleon there only was light railings along the sides.

by the 17th century the well was sometimes covered with gratings that replaced the anti-boarding nets and the railings were changed in to bulwark that was part of the ships hull.

by the 18th century the well transvered in to what looks like a hole in the deck, because of the addition of gangways for easy passage from quarter to forecastle.

for those who are interested

the book I found this in: 'Sailingships & Sailing craft' by 'G.goldsmith-Carter'

published by 'The Hamlyn Publishing Group Ltd.' from London

ISBN 9010009610

my Dutch print was published in MCMLXXI = 1971

the well is discussed on the pages picturing the Ark Royal, Sovereign of the Seas and the Vasa.

the translation from the Dutch word 'kuil' and 'kuildek' I found in a book explaning English shipping terms in Dutch, the book dates from the age of steam, where the ships had a raised poop, bridge house and forecastle, the so called three island ships, the parts in between those raised places were called well's or the well deck.

In moderen navy's the well deck is a deck witch can be (partly) submersed to launch small crafts.

Bart

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Oh, and just one more thing: Foremast Jack, welcome to Eurobricks! Great start you've made by participating in such a discussion. But could you resize your pictures to the EB-size-Limit of 800x600? Normally I wouldn't mind (especially for the last picture!) but right now I'm on tour and my mobile internet takes ages to load those beauties!

Thanks for the welcome! Images resized.

okay I dived into my books and found what I was looking for.

Well deck is the correct translation for the Dutch 'kuildek'.

this name has been in use since 16th century the age of the galleons.

(the first notice of it I can find in my books)

the area between the forecastle and the quarterdecks was called the well.

in the days of the galleon there only was light railings along the sides.

by the 17th century the well was sometimes covered with gratings that replaced the anti-boarding nets and the railings were changed in to bulwark that was part of the ships hull.

by the 18th century the well transvered in to what looks like a hole in the deck, because of the addition of gangways for easy passage from quarter to forecastle.

for those who are interested

the book I found this in: 'Sailingships & Sailing craft' by 'G.goldsmith-Carter'

published by 'The Hamlyn Publishing Group Ltd.' from London

ISBN 9010009610

my Dutch print was published in MCMLXXI = 1971

the well is discussed on the pages picturing the Ark Royal, Sovereign of the Seas and the Vasa.

the translation from the Dutch word 'kuil' and 'kuildek' I found in a book explaning English shipping terms in Dutch, the book dates from the age of steam, where the ships had a raised poop, bridge house and forecastle, the so called three island ships, the parts in between those raised places were called well's or the well deck.

In moderen navy's the well deck is a deck witch can be (partly) submersed to launch small crafts.

Bart

Okay, where to start? Well since Horry has given his blessing allowing us to continue our discussion here, I think I'll do just that. ;)

That part of the ship we've been discussing does have a name singling it out from the rest of the Main Deck, but I've never heard it referred to as the well or well-deck. The well is down in the bilges. It's the absolutely lowest part of the ship from which the ship's carpenter takes the "well sounding" to determine how much water the ship has taken on from high seas, battle, normal seepage, etc.

Now like I was saying before one possible translation of kuil is waist, and I have heard that part of the ship called the waist. However, that area (when covered with grating betwixt the gangways) is never called the waist-deck (or well-deck). I don't want to go so far as to say the references you're consulting are incorrect. Perhaps it's more a problem of mistranslation on someone's part somewhere.

I'm including a scan showing the "waist" of a early 19th century man o' war.

74s_sails_and_decks.jpg

74s_sails_and_decks_legend.jpg

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Well that is the first English reference I see, giving that part a name.

So I tend to agree with you that there is some mis-translation somewhere.

As I sad I got my (I thought conformation) translation from a book about steamships.

And I know that a lot of Dutch names for navel terms are still the same even on the most modern ships.

Maybe the English names changed over time. I do not know that.

Bart

Edit;

this morning I send an Email to the HMS Victory concerning this question and I just saw I got a reply;

my email:

Good Morning

I had a discussion with a friend about the name of a certain part of the deck,

It is about the area in between the Forecastle and the Quarter deck, the area that is open, only the deck beams with the barges stood on top.

we both agreed on the fact that the area's to the sides of the open part are called gangways.

but now I am sending this question, maybe you can tell me if we are right about that.

Regards

Bart

their Reply:

Bart,

Thank you for your enquiry. The area generally is known as the waist, the planked sections to either side are called the gangways, and the open area is where the skid beams that house the boats are located. There is no formal name for the opening, and one tends to find that it would be described as simply 'the waist' - an example of this is to describe boats as being stowed in the waist of the ship.

With kind regards,

Andrew Baines

So it seems you are correct with the name waist. and we got conformation that it is still in use, more or less.

PS which book did you scan?

Edited by Bart

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Well that is the first English reference I see, giving that part a name.

So I tend to agree with you that there is some mis-translation somewhere.

As I sad I got my (I thought conformation) translation from a book about steamships.

And I know that a lot of Dutch names for navel terms are still the same even on the most modern ships.

Maybe the English names changed over time. I do not know that.

Bart

Edit;

this morning I send an Email to the HMS Victory concerning this question and I just saw I got a reply;

my email:

Good Morning

I had a discussion with a friend about the name of a certain part of the deck,

It is about the area in between the Forecastle and the Quarter deck, the area that is open, only the deck beams with the barges stood on top.

we both agreed on the fact that the area's to the sides of the open part are called gangways.

but now I am sending this question, maybe you can tell me if we are right about that.

Regards

Bart

their Reply:

Bart,

Thank you for your enquiry. The area generally is known as the waist, the planked sections to either side are called the gangways, and the open area is where the skid beams that house the boats are located. There is no formal name for the opening, and one tends to find that it would be described as simply 'the waist' - an example of this is to describe boats as being stowed in the waist of the ship.

With kind regards,

Andrew Baines

So it seems you are correct with the name waist. and we got conformation that it is still in use, more or less.

PS which book did you scan?

Nice. I'm glad you got a response.

The book I pulled it from is:

_scan10001.jpg

ISBN: 0-8050-6615-2

But that diagram is based on a plate from this book.

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johohoo... folks! What happened to my thread?! :pir-oh3::pir-oh:

:pir-grin::pir_laugh2: Ha, nevermind, I find the talk intriguing and I'll include some of the issues in the tutorial I'm doing next. For me it wouldn't be a problem to leave the threads in here.

Oh, and just one more thing: Foremast Jack, welcome to Eurobricks! Great start you've made by participating in such a discussion. But could you resize your pictures to the EB-size-Limit of 800x600? Normally I wouldn't mind (especially for the last picture!) but right now I'm on tour and my mobile internet takes ages to load those beauties!

planty of material for tutorals :pir_laugh2:

I'm looking forward to your tutoral(s) :pir-classic:

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What I want to know is how the steering mechanism works exactly,

the connection between the steering wheel and rudder.

I can design one myself but I'd like to have a historical accurate one.

From the steering wheels tehre are ropes going down below, that's all I know, but what route do the ropes take ? are there pulleys leading them so they can pull a tiller to the left/right ?

I didn't find anything on the internet :pir_bawling:

I know this question was answered to complete satisfaction, but I was thinking about doing a rudder tutorial after my capstan one is complete. (There were quite a few different types used other than just the one described here.) Is there any interest in such a thing?

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planty of material for tutorals :pir_laugh2:

I'm looking forward to your tutoral(s) :pir-classic:

Thanks! But for now I am putting work on any tutorials on hold until our new hotspur here has defined his field of interest a bit better. :pir_laugh2: I was half way through the first new tutorial when the capstan tutorial showed up. And since there's no real need for redundant tutorials, I'll sit this one out.

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Thanks! But for now I am putting work on any tutorials on hold until our new hotspur here has defined his field of interest a bit better. :pir_laugh2: I was half way through the first new tutorial when the capstan tutorial showed up. And since there's no real need for redundant tutorials, I'll sit this one out.

Oh, well... I'm a bit taken aback now. I just wanted to help you out some, not step on your toes. I beg pardon.

Perhaps I should wait and have you tell me what would best help you? I'll finish up this capstan one, then fall into silence.

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nonononono, this was not what I meant! I have, by no means, a monopoly on tutorials and I really enjoyed your tutorial very much! If you want to do another one, then by all means, do it!

Or, if that would interest you, we could collaborate and do one together? :pir-sweet:

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Or, if that would interest you, we could collaborate and do one together? :pir-sweet:

Oh most assuredly!

I plan to have my capstan one finished in the next couple of days. I was then thinking about doing one on rudders/steering mechanisms. Maybe masts after that, but that's as far as my plans go.

Working on one together could prove most effective and I'm VERY much open to the idea. Let me know if you have something in mind.

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Looking good lads! :thumbup:

Try to stay on topic though, if you have found a nice point of discussion which does not quite belong here, please start another thread so more people can participate and the original thread doesn't get cluttered. People don't like to read through all the pages filled with stuff they weren't looking for. :pir-wink:

Already thanks and cheers. :pir-sweet:

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I've been planning my next ship and I have a question: is it accurate for a sloop-of-war to have cannons exposed on the quarterdeck, or to be enclosed on the main gun deck? Having cannons on the quarterdeck seems more prevalent in real life, but most of the LEGO ships I've seen have another deck built on top of the guns. :pir-sceptic: Thanks in advance!

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:jollyroger: Alright I have built many ships, but everytime I think they look too blocky. Can you show us how to make a ship look more "round" It would be awesome if you can. :shark:

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I have this lovely book which goes page by page throughout a whole Man of War ship, it's extremely useful for me. Except I usually build smaller ships, looking through this book a proper LEGO Man Of War (or frigate) would have to have a brick-built hull, being so wide.

71P34RHXHRL._SL500_AA300_.gif

I would seriously suggest this book to anyone building a frigate.

:jollyroger:

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I've been planning my next ship and I have a question: is it accurate for a sloop-of-war to have cannons exposed on the quarterdeck, or to be enclosed on the main gun deck? Having cannons on the quarterdeck seems more prevalent in real life, but most of the LEGO ships I've seen have another deck built on top of the guns. :pir-sceptic: Thanks in advance!

Now I'm back. The question I have to state in order to help is: what kind of sloop-of-war do you want to build? As this term can refer to any non-rated ship in military service (as can be read in this tutorial - another shameless advertisment) it would help to know what speficic class of ship you want to find out more about?

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