LEGO® CUUSOO 空想 - Turn your model wishes into reality

[Aanchir]

not sure why they are still continuing to allow votes for the second Zelda project.

Because there's no reason they shouldn't? Unlike the previous one, new molds are far from the highlight of the project. And as of yet, licensing has not presented an issue (though since the last one likely didn't even make it to licensing talks, it may become an issue in the future).

They even say in the blog post that the failure of a project in review has nothing to do with the fate of future projects, unless a licensing situation is found to be impossible (such as in the case of IPs owned by other toy companies, like the My Little Pony project, or IPs licensed to other companies in a way that prohibits TLG from producing the project, like the Star Wars Dark Bucket or Star Wars Ultrabuilds projects).

[Meatman]

I wonder if the first Zelda project even got to the license phase or if they just stopped it at the mold issue? So this new Zelda project doesn't have new molds? It certainly looks like it does. If the first one got declined, this probably is as well. They'll probably find an excuse in their rules that eliminates it because let's be honest, what got the first Zelda to the goal was the theme, not the need for new molds. This would be very unfair to the original Zelda 10k project if this passed.

Edited December 25, 2012 by Meatman

[Another Brick In The Wall]

I wonder if the first Zelda project even got to the license phase or if they just stopped it at the mold issue?

I guarantee you that the license was not the issue at stake -- from a PR perspective Cuusoo would retain far more credibility if they said: "sorry Nintendo wouldn't let us use its intellectual property -- but at least we tried!!!!!"

[AndyC]

I don't think the review process is intended to be a head-to-head competition (indeed the Cuusoo team stated in the past that if two sets passed review they would simply be queued up and produced in subsequent quarters). However at the same time, I'm not sure they ever quite expected so many sets to hit the target consistently. Obviously it's not really going to work out if you endlessly queue up projects, because sooner or later you'll have a queue spanning several years of production. Now that may lead to them raising the bar for passing review, so they can look at something like the Zelda project (which was pretty much all about unique figures) and decide that rather than compromise heavily on the original idea, it's better to throw it back out there until another, more acceptable, Zelda project passes through to the review stage instead.

[Faefrost]

I wonder if the first Zelda project even got to the license phase or if they just stopped it at the mold issue?

It probably failed right at the early business calculations, long before anyone dropped a dime to call Nintendo. Call low estimates of $100,000 per mold. So $400,000 for the project, just in new costs. So assuming a planned typical CuuSoo run of 10,000... We are looking at $40 per set just for mold costs. For a tiny set of a handful of Minifigs an no real brick build. This means that the end cost of the set would probably need to be $60+. It's not hard to understand exactly why the project was rejected once you look at the basic math. An actual full blown Zelda licensed theme might be viable (debate able, how has Megabloks done withWoW?) but as a one shot CuuSoo there is no way the math worked out.

[imajor]

Wouldn't it be better, if only those could vote, who buy lego sets? For example each box could contain a coupon (big boxes could contain even more), and one coupon would be equal to one vote? Sorry if it was mentioned before.

[Faefrost]

Wouldn't it be better, if only those could vote, who buy lego sets? For example each box could contain a coupon (big boxes could contain even more), and one coupon would be equal to one vote? Sorry if it was mentioned before.

It would run completely counter to some of the purposes of CuuSoo. Part of the goal of the project is to interest other fan bases in Lego. By coming in to support their niche project they look around and get a renewed interest in Lego itself. CuuSoo isn't simply a wish list for AFOLs. It is a marketing tool (albeit a rough and incomplete one still under development.)

[Another Brick In The Wall]

CuuSoo isn't simply a wish list for AFOLs. It is a marketing tool (albeit a rough and incomplete one still under development.)

Yep. This summarizes cuusoo perfectly.

It would be a PR disaster if they place limitations on who can vote. In fact, I doubt very much they will ever increase the threshold of votes mandating review, because this lets them retain the "it's too niche" veto in a credible way.

[GandalftheAWESOME]

This chart says a lot. Western went from one of the most a sizable influences to next to nothing, significantly smaller than 1%. The amount of influence Westerns have on popular culture outside of old people old enough to remember the good old days of Westerns is almost nothing these days. I believe you're vastly over estimating the influence Westerns have these days as well as extremely underestimating the influence of Back to the Future which is still in the minds of even young people (everyone knowns what BttF is, even little kids).

This is only one graph but it illustrates it well. Westerns are practically dead.

The problem with this graph is that is shows the number of films made, not the number bought or watched.

[Lyichir]

The problem with this graph is that is shows the number of films made, not the number bought or watched.

Films are made based on demand, so it's still a pretty good indicator of the decline of the Western genre. Pop-culture is a fickle thing that needs a steady stream of content to hold the public consciousness.

Another issue (one which I have only anecdotal data to support) is the dearth of kid-friendly Westerns in recent time. Cowboys and Aliens is the only one I can think of in recent years, and it was only half-Western. I'm personally hopeful that The Lone Ranger can reconstruct a genre that's been deconstructed to near-death since its heyday. I think that's what Disney is hoping for too, since they seem to be trying to repeat their success at revitalizing the pirate genre with Pirates of the Caribbean.

[ShaydDeGrai]

Films are made based on demand, so it's still a pretty good indicator of the decline of the Western genre. Pop-culture is a fickle thing that needs a steady stream of content to hold the public consciousness.

The economics of it are a bit more complex than this, popular demand is certainly a major part of it, but the studios can also be very heavy handed in trying to force popular "demand" one way or another by limiting options, marketing propaganda as news, and just plain ad saturation. For example, I was reading one report a month or so ago that claimed 70% of movie goers over the age of 20 preferred 2D films to 3D but despite that, a major studio had imposed a standing policy not to approve any budget over $100M unless it was going to be in 3D - not because 3D was popular, but because 3D films are harder to pirate and they give the studio an excuse to charge more for them. The studio had also employed a marketing firm to troll websites and blogs to make postings about how great 3D is and to flame people who complain about 3D.

The studios play with the media and talk about how this 3D film was the biggest blockbuster of the year and neglect to mention that 2D ticket sales (by attendance) for the same title exceeded 3D sales by 3 to 1, etc. They show charts about how many 3D films are being released compared to 2D in previous years (neglecting to mention that most of them were 3D conversions after the fact and only counting 2D films that were _only_ available in 2D or only counting the 2D films that played in IMAX theaters, etc.) and people are left with the (false) impression that 3D is the big thing and if they don't embrace it, pop culture will leave them in its dust.

I use 3D films as an example just because it's the current wave of Hollywood dictating pop culture over the preferences of the majority of movie going public (and I mean no slight to those who like 3D, but independent surveys and actual count of tickets sold strongly suggest they are a minority audience, at least in the US), but this same sort of thing has been going on for years with genre films. Right now, it all about super hero films, a few years ago it was spy films, before that sports films, before that ... (you get the idea) While, to my knowledge, the studios don't collude with one another to force us into only having war films to pick from or some such, the cost of making pictures these days usually means no one wants to take a big risk. If Paramount's next big ten pole is going to be Sci-Fi, you can bet Sony and Fox are going to be releasing Sci-Fi films of their own at around the same time. It's one thing to take a chance on a 20M romantic comedy, but these days when many films can be shot on a back lot in Vancouver with cheap digital effects or a little village in Ireland where you can rent an entire hotel for less than one day's catering budget in L.A., a western shot on location with real horses and real cattle , practical sets, etc. can be a prohibitively pricey gamble for a studio that tries to break with the declared trend.

Another issue (one which I have only anecdotal data to support) is the dearth of kid-friendly Westerns in recent time. ...(snip)...

The data isn't just anecdotal, it's out there if you know where to look and it supports your supposition rather well. While the Sergio Leoni/Clint Eastward westerns of the 60's and 70's have never been kids fare, the real economic turning point came around the time of the introduction of the PG-13 rating and "blockbuster" economics. The most profitable westerns in recent years have all been R-rated and while some have been highly praised (such as "Unforgiven") none of them have been blockbusters. In fact, R-rated blockbusters are rare (outside of the occasional comedy). Films don't become block busters because people see them, they become blockbusters because people see them over and over again. Most adults, if they go to the movies at all, don't tend to go to the same film twice. Tweens and teenagers, however, will. So Hollywood likes to push the PG-13 theatrical release and the "unrated" DVD (as minors can usually buy disks or stream videos without getting carded the way they would trying to sneak into "Henry and June" or "Showgirls") and certain genres that don't fit well in this distribution model (like westerns) get left by the wayside.

I don't know if today's culture has room for a Gene Autry or a Crash Corrigan. I remember thinking of "The Rifleman" as a sort of western take on "Father Knows Best," but who can sit through either of those shows these days? I think a lot of kids have become too cynical at too young an age to accept that sort of "innocent" idealized world no matter where it's set. I think as a people, we've come to realize that the old west was not really a kid friendly time. Romantic notions of singing cowboys in white hats who shoot the gun out of the bad guy's hand before giving him a stern talking to where he learns the error of his ways and goes on to become a pillar of society just doesn't fly anymore.

Even slightly more mature fare (in its day) like "Raw Hide" and "Bonanza" comes across as naive and dated today. Lord knows I could never figure out what my mother found so great about "Dr.Quinn Medicine Woman" (whoever wrote that show really needed to go back to high school history class, they made the writers of "F-Troop" seems like scholars).

The profitable reception of "adult" westerns from time to time suggests that people ARE still willing to watch an r-rated Drama set in the Old West, but I think the things a studio would have to do to turn such a film into a kids friendly film would make it unpalatable to adults. I don't know about The Lone Ranger, is it really a western, or will it be an action/adventure/comedy with western elements? I certainly don't consider the PotC films to be "Pirate" films in the same genre as "Captain Blood" or "The Sea Hawk," but who knows.

Regardless of the past or future of the film genre, based on preliminary photos, I think I would have been more likely to buy the Modular Western Town over the Lone Ranger kits (though I am eyeing the train set). It's a shame we can't have both.

[Another Brick In The Wall]

Hypothetical scenario: if Lone Ranger sets sell beyond expectations (possible as all the sets look intriguing) would TLG/CuuSoo reconsider MWT?

Edited January 4, 2013 by Another Brick In The Wall

[ShaydDeGrai]

Hypothetical scenario: if Lone Ranger sets sell beyond expectations (possible as all the sets look intriguing) would TLG/CuuSoo reconsider MWT?

If I had to guess, I'd say probably not. I think the problem is that CuuSoo sets are marketed as their own theme and TLG/Disney wouldn't want one theme cannibalizing the market for another (especially one where they had to pay extra for the license). If CuuSoo worked differently (no such thing as a separate CuuSoo kit or recurring residuals for "winning" CuuSoo designs) I could see an already successful Lone Ranger line being expanded to adopt many of the attributes that made MWT popular, but I don't think CuuSoo (as it stands today) is really about selling a winning design so much as it is about designers volunteering web content and users generating web traffic to bring Facebook and Twitter users to LEGO.

Whether they produce BTTF or MWT (or Perdue Pete for that matter) is secondary to the fact that there are now blogs and websites all over the web dedicated to promoting and reviewing CuuSoo ideas. TLG doesn't spend a penny on any of that. We've volunteered our models, our time, our server space, our bandwidth, etc. to (however indirectly) promote LEGO to AFOLs and Non-AFOLS alike. Passing the review is less an exercise in marketing a new product than it is of keeping CuuSoo fans interested and hopeful that "the next big idea" with be one of theirs.

Even by rejecting MWT, CuuSoo is creating buzz that kicks the term "LEGO" higher in the search engine queues. Yes, many AFOLs are annoyed by the action, but let's face it, we're going to to continue to buy their products anyway. Reconsidering MWT in the future buys them little compared with just waiting for the next buzz-worthy item to put LEGO back on the RSS feeds as a hot topic.

The strategy could certainly blow up on them. If we stop posting and stop voting, CuuSoo is as good as dead. Maybe it's just the revised activity feed, but it certainly seems like there are a lot fewer new projects being posted these days (I know I don't spend as much time there as I used to and haven't proposed or updated anything in months).

If they keep giving the appearance of rejecting good ideas, it becomes like slot machine with a reputation for never paying out - every now and then, somebody has to been seen as winning to encourage others to play. That's one of the reasons why I think, politically, it was a bad move for them to approve BTTF (and idea proposed by someone who worked for CuuSoo) in the same press release were they kill MWT for no fault of its own. It doesn't add credibility to the notion that "anyone can design a winning set" when you approve an idea from an insider and kill a outside idea because you perceive it might conflict with internally developed offerings.

[Faefrost]

I don't know if today's culture has room for a Gene Autry or a Crash Corrigan. I remember thinking of "The Rifleman" as a sort of western take on "Father Knows Best," but who can sit through either of those shows these days? I think a lot of kids have become too cynical at too young an age to accept that sort of "innocent" idealized world no matter where it's set. I think as a people, we've come to realize that the old west was not really a kid friendly time. Romantic notions of singing cowboys in white hats who shoot the gun out of the bad guy's hand before giving him a stern talking to where he learns the error of his ways and goes on to become a pillar of society just doesn't fly anymore.

Even slightly more mature fare (in its day) like "Raw Hide" and "Bonanza" comes across as naive and dated today. Lord knows I could never figure out what my mother found so great about "Dr.Quinn Medicine Woman" (whoever wrote that show really needed to go back to high school history class, they made the writers of "F-Troop" seems like scholars).

The profitable reception of "adult" westerns from time to time suggests that people ARE still willing to watch an r-rated Drama set in the Old West, but I think the things a studio would have to do to turn such a film into a kids friendly film would make it unpalatable to adults. I don't know about The Lone Ranger, is it really a western, or will it be an action/adventure/comedy with western elements? I certainly don't consider the PotC films to be "Pirate" films in the same genre as "Captain Blood" or "The Sea Hawk," but who knows.

The sad thing is there is plenty of room for more family friendly westerns. Just look at one of the key subjects of this post. The BttF set. The third BttF movie was essentially a fun western adventure. There is room for more of that. Heck Zorro has done reasonably well in modern times using the same concept. Somewhere between Heavens Gate and Unforgiven the entire Western genre took a sharp turn into that deconstructionist darkness. The sort of place that even Batman fears to tread. I am hoping the LR movie can bring it back out into a fun place. Not unlike they did with PotC.

[hjmediastudios]

The problem with this graph is that is shows the number of films made, not the number bought or watched.

Let's be honest- if this graph were anywhere near accurate, that black segment would be about eight times larger.

[lightningtiger]

Let's be honest- if this graph were anywhere near accurate, that black segment would be about eight times larger.

And we know it's the internet's fault !

My problem with Cuusoo is the number of projects listed that have been just tossed together poorly on LDD and then uploaded to Cuusoo....they except it.....I've have two turned down for photographic reasons and two for reasons.....they meet the rules and then they didn't.....I don't know I've given up almost on this thing....I'll for fill my promises for when something reaches 100 I'll rebuild even better...but that's all.

[Faefrost]

Did anyone catch that PeterReid's Exosuit hit 10k yesterday? Congrats to him.

My early guess on this one? It will be hotly debated in TLG but will fail on the actual design review. It is such a wonderful looking MOC, with so much detailed greenling, but there seem to be an awful lot of major structural points that are working off a single tiny pin connection. Pneumatic T connectors are well and good, and I confess that I don't have a lot of experience with Lego mech building. But those T connectors through the legs just seem shaky. Yet I am worried that they would be hesitant to grossly re-engineer those sections using Bionacle/HF type parts as that would greatly change the character of the model. The other albeit lesser issue I foresee it bumping into is the age factor. His looks like a delightfully complex build. Very very advanced. Which is what the folks around here want, but imagine someone picking this up cold? Add to that that it might not be that stable for even mildly robust child play and the review could go either way. I'm just saying, and I really hope I am wrong. I would love to have one of these on my shelf.

[PocasNuckie]

I don't see CUUSOO products as the typical sets LEGO releases for kids to play with.

Of course LEGO will always respect (as we have seen with the reject of previous projects) the core target of 6-11 and the constraints it brings, but I don't think it will limit the Exo-Suit just because it's not strongly stable and playable with.

CUUSOO sets are collectibles/display models (atleast I like to see them that way) , not just another set to swoosh with, there's hundred others with that purpose.

[Faefrost]

I don't see CUUSOO products as the typical sets LEGO releases for kids to play with.

Of course LEGO will always respect (as we have seen with the reject of previous projects) the core target of 6-11 and the constraints it brings,

I am just fearful that they have certain minimal standards for stability and play, that they will insist on for any product bearing Lego. Much like their standards regarding age appropriate content and source material.

[BrickG]

I hope Zelda gets 10000 again. Looks like it'll happen. Even though I expect them to give the same excuse I think the more Zelda projects that pass the more they'll consider it. A Zelda set would sell awesomely IMO.

Though... lets calculate the new molds they'd probably need.

1) Link's Hair/Hat.

2) Zelda's Hair/Crown stuff.

3) The Master Sword (probably with a colored handle too)

4) Ganondorf's Hair.

5) Any of Link's tools besides the bow and arrow basically... (Boomerangs, whatever). However, this might be skipable.

6) Link's Shield (though they could go cheapo on it and just print existing shields)

That's a lot for a single set. Many would be unusable for anything else too.

I don't know if any cuusoo has had a single new mold made specifically for it. I mean, looking at stuff like Minecraft there's nothing but existing stuff, just a few with a print...

[Faefrost]

I hope Zelda gets 10000 again. Looks like it'll happen. Even though I expect them to give the same excuse I think the more Zelda projects that pass the more they'll consider it. A Zelda set would sell awesomely IMO.

Though... lets calculate the new molds they'd probably need.

That's a lot for a single set. Many would be unusable for anything else too.

I don't know if any cuusoo has had a single new mold made specifically for it. I mean, looking at stuff like Minecraft there's nothing but existing stuff, just a few with a print...

A Zelda theme would probably do reasonably well. (Although not completely guaranteed. What is the actual sell through of Zelda games? Considering there is no other related media such as a TV show also driving the property? A look at MegaBloks Halo sales numbers would be interesting in this regard.) a single Zelda CuuSoo project probably less so.

CuuSoo is not a mass market retail shelf line. If they are not putting it on the shelves at WalMart and Toys R Us, chances are it will not be getting new unique tooling. And this seems to hold across the line, even among some top selling D2C releases. Have any of the Direct Lego exclusives had new tooling made specifically for them? I know one of the goals of the Modular buildings is the use of existing parts and molds. Joust didn't use anything new. Winter Village is all existing molds. Imperial Flagship was all existing parts just in new colors. Etc. while I think there was a new structural part in the B Wing, it was obviously something that they plan to use elsewhere, so was amortized across multiple sets and themes.

The root problem with any CuuSoo Zelda project is a lowball estimate of the tooling costs is probably between $400,000 to $500,000 USD. Compare that to Minecraft, or the Curiousity Rover, which have $0 in new tooling costs.

[Meatman]

I supported and really like Peter's Exo Suit, but I feel that it may fail primarily due to the fact that Lego is currently making those in sets and his design while awesome, isn't quite built in the standard Lego format. I still wish him luck though.

[BrickG]

Anyone else think they should make these things last 6 months instead of 3? I figure again, they'll be two behind when the next one finishes... and it'll take forever to get an answer. :P

[Another Brick In The Wall]

Anyone else think they should make these things last 6 months instead of 3? I figure again, they'll be two behind when the next one finishes... and it'll take forever to get an answer. :P

The glut of projects is drying up. While the current review poses some difficult questions (specifically Portal and UCS Sandcrawler) the next batch is relatively straight forward: PP (reject - too niche), Space Marines (reject - conflict theme/theme-project).

I supported and really like Peter's Exo Suit, but I feel that it may fail primarily due to the fact that Lego is currently making those in sets and his design while awesome, isn't quite built in the standard Lego format. I still wish him luck though.

What sets are you referring to? Why do you say it was not "quite built in standard Lego format"? Does it use special non-Lego pieces ? If not, then it's in Lego format.

Edited January 17, 2013 by Another Brick In The Wall

[Lyichir]

The glut of projects is drying up. While the current review poses some difficult questions (specifically Portal and UCS Sandcrawler) the next batch is relatively straight forward: PP (reject - too niche), Space Marines (reject - conflict theme/theme-project).

I don't think it's a certainty that Space Marines will be rejected. Modular Western Town wasn't just similar to a planned theme, but similar to a licensed theme. The terms of the Lone Ranger license might very well stipulate that Lego not release its own Western sets during the theme's run. With Space Marines vs. Galaxy Squad, Lego can set their own terms, and they have shown willingness to release Space sets which exist outside their ongoing space themes before, when they released Star Justice and Space Skulls alongside Mars Mission.