New Lego 10223 Kingdoms Joust Exclusive

[Scorpiox]

I see all the speculations on whether it is 'Dragonn knight in disguise' and they plainly seem silly. I seriously doubt anyone is going to play with/display the Falcon without his plate armour, and so what if he has the same body, maybe he just visited the same blacksmith.

The only way to deal with the plume, if it worries you so much, is to go into your LEGO collection and get a white plume, then... add it to the Falcon. Wow! He looks so different!

Seriously, why must we complain when TLG has done something wonderfull? People have dreamed for years of even a single Falcon being released, and when it comes they moan.

Edited October 11, 2011 by Scorpiox

[David Thomsen]

I see all the speculations on whether it is 'Dragonn knight in disguise' and they plainly seem silly. I seriously doubt anyone is going to play with/display the Falcon without his plate armour, and so what if he has the same body, maybe he just visited the same blacksmith.

I notice that unlike the equivalent Lion Knights torso, this torso doesn't have any Dragon Knight colours or emblems on it, making it the only 'neutral' knight torso... I imagine they did this on purpose when they designed the torso so they could specifically use it for this minifigure. This wouldn't be the first time they'd planned long in advance.

Hmmm... I don't think I have much else to say about this set for the time being. I guess there's nothing left for me to do but wait for someone to get the set and review it. Unless Lego want to put out a video of a designer talking about the set. Now, where are the pictures of the next Modular building?

[Piranha]

I see all the speculations on whether it is 'Dragonn knight in disguise' and they plainly seem silly. I seriously doubt anyone is going to play with/display the Falcon without his plate armour, and so what if he has the same body, maybe he just visited the same blacksmith.

The only way to deal with the plume, if it worries you so much, is to go into your LEGO collection and get a white plume, then... add it to the Falcon. Wow! He looks so different!

Seriously, why must we complain when TLG has done something wonderfull? People have dreamed for years of even a single Falcon being released, and when it comes they moan.

exactly my thoughts. This fig is very generic in general even the horse barding is generic lacking any coat or arms. If it weren't for the shield this could be used as any rouge or generic knight.

[Artanis I]

If it weren't for the shield this could be used as any rouge or generic knight.

I think you mean "rogue" haha, he's as far from rouge as you can get...

[Aanchir]

true but the Governors Daughter is more comparable to the Princess than the Falcon Knight because a whole new faction couldn't have been hinted at from the Governor's Daughter that was just a new fig thrown in to sweeten the deal. The Falcon Knight while possibly just thrown in so we wouldn't get two of the same knights with bardings but also has a new coat of arms and would be a good way to introduce a new rival faction to the Lion Knights.

So in the end this could swing either way but I was caustically optimistic when I saw they had put in a new Black Falcon. Teaser or not.

You do have a good point about the princess-- I had forgotten about her. So this does have far more new printed parts than the Imperial Flagship-- at least, if you don't count the sails. It's also slightly more than have been seen in many other D2C sets like Diagon Alley or the MMV. Signs that some of these prints might not be exclusive, or perhaps just signs that D2C sets are beginning to have more exclusive printed parts?

No where is it mentioned that the Falcon Knight is a Dragon Knight disguised but it is possible there is an alliance or so. I actually think they designed this set for a mounted Dragon Knight but scraped it at the last minute for a new Black Falcon not to outrage fans for getting two same old mounted knights

I think more likely the situation is just that TLG didn't want to release too many new prints just for a D2C set and so used as many non-faction-specific prints from the Dragon Knights as possible on the falcon knight. Even if Kingdoms were going to introduce a new Falcon faction, it wouldn't make sense to introduce an unusually large number of new prints in this set and not save any for the summer wave.

Something I've noticed a lot of mention of is how a D2C set like this tends to be a "swan song" for a theme. I think it's a bit unrealistic to call this sort of thing a trend. Imperial Flagship came out after the rest of the Pirates theme, but it's the only example I can think of right at the moment. Otherwise, MMV was a January 2009 set, before the three-set summer wave that introduced the Trolls' Mountain Fortress. Diagon Alley also was a January set that preceded a summer wave in the Harry Potter theme. D2C sets in the Star Wars theme have never indicated the end of that theme, for obvious reasons. So overall I think it's foolish to think themed D2C sets are "swan songs" for their theme-- all examples but one suggest otherwise.

Now, this doesn't mean the set couldn't be the last set in the Kingdoms line. After all, the Imperial Flagship is still precedent for that sort of thing. But frankly, there's no reason to think that at this stage of the game. It's just leaping to conclusions based on one major disappointment.

[Jack Bricker]

Something I've noticed a lot of mention of is how a D2C set like this tends to be a "swan song" for a theme. I think it's a bit unrealistic to call this sort of thing a trend. Imperial Flagship came out after the rest of the Pirates theme, but it's the only example I can think of right at the moment. Otherwise, MMV was a January 2009 set, before the three-set summer wave that introduced the Trolls' Mountain Fortress. Diagon Alley also was a January set that preceded a summer wave in the Harry Potter theme. D2C sets in the Star Wars theme have never indicated the end of that theme, for obvious reasons. So overall I think it's foolish to think themed D2C sets are "swan songs" for their theme-- all examples but one suggest otherwise.

Now, this doesn't mean the set couldn't be the last set in the Kingdoms line. After all, the Imperial Flagship is still precedent for that sort of thing. But frankly, there's no reason to think that at this stage of the game. It's just leaping to conclusions based on one major disappointment.

I totally agree with you on that. I think that it is very possible for there to be some new Kingdoms sets next year since there is still so much left for them to do. I mean they still haven't done a proper dragon castle, siege tower, or even a proper inn. Not to mention that there have been lots of wizards in Kingdoms and Castle with no magic shops. Also, we haven't even seen a dragon cave for a long time. I would really like to see Lego do another dragon cave especially one that is built with bricks and not BURPs. Do you hear that Lego? No BURPs.

[Haltiamieli]

Also, we haven't even seen a dragon cave for a long time. I would really like to see Lego do another dragon cave especially one that is built with bricks and not BURPs. Do you hear that Lego? No BURPs.

While I second the hope that Lego would release a dragon cave set* (I don't think it would necessarily clash too much with Kingdoms theme, after all we also have two wizards in this theme), I don't think Lego could achieve a good and proper, cave-y dragon cave without any burps, raised baseplates (which seem to be quite obsolete nowadays) or such. That would require too many pieces just for the landscaping. I'm not against burps if they are used well, out of necessity and partly obscured with smaller pieces.

* What I'm imagining is a "dragonslayer set" in a vein of Saint George and other legends: with a dragon and its cave, maybe with a captive lady, and a valiant knight coming to slay it and, if included, rescue the lady.

What, offtopic? Oops.

While the Kingdoms Joust is not necessarily the last Kingdoms set released, it will very probably stay in production longer than any other Kingdoms set even if there's still one more wave in the coming summer, of that I think all the precedant cases are consistent except SW (obviously). So in that sense it could be seen as the harbinger of doom, if not an exact swansong.

Edited October 12, 2011 by Haltiamieli

[Jack Bricker]

While I second the hope that Lego would release a dragon cave set* (I don't think it would necessarily clash too much with Kingdoms theme, after all we also have two wizards in this theme), I don't think Lego could achieve a good and proper, cave-y dragon cave without any burps, raised baseplates (which seem to be quite obsolete nowadays) or such. That would require too many pieces just for the landscaping. I'm not against burps if they are used well, out of necessity and partly obscured with smaller pieces.

* What I'm imagining is a "dragonslayer set" in a vein of Saint George and other legends: with a dragon and its cave, maybe with a captive lady, and a valiant knight coming to slay it and, if included, rescue the lady.

What, offtopic? Oops.

While the Kingdoms Joust is not necessarily the last Kingdoms set released, it will very probably stay in production longer than any other Kingdoms set even if there's still one more wave in the coming summer, of that I think all the precedant cases are consistent except SW (obviously). So in that sense it could be seen as the harbinger of doom, if not an exact swansong.

I agree with all of that. As for the harbinger of doom for kingdoms I do think that unless Lego unveils a new faction for kingdoms that it will probably get only one more wave. I do wonder though if perhaps Lego is treating the falcon knight kind of like an oman of what is to come in future castle themes.

[Ogre]

Actually the title of the theme "Kingdoms" is alluding to more than one or two. Thus I always found it appropriate for different and more Kingdoms to enter the picture.

Well, technically, it merely means 'more than one', since it's a pluralized name, thus eliminating the possiblity of ONLY one. Anything "more than two" is pure speculation, or "wishful thinking" by fans.

Ever since I warmed-up to this theme, I HOPED it meant that the theme would continue for longer than LEGO's curren't "normal run length" and add additional kingdoms into the mix but, I'm not so certain that's going to happen. At this point in time, it's looking like "fantasy era" will have had more "kingdoms" than "Kingdoms" will.

*EDIT*

I got to thinking about this reply of mine and something suddenly dawned on me: the theme is called "Kingdoms"...plural...as in 'more than one'...BUT...we have, so far, seen only ONE KING! Two FACTIONS, yes, but only ONE king, hence only ONE 'kingdom'. Now, I realize that this means NOTHING and that I'm just grasping at straws, striving for some faint hope that this theme will continue but...well...you just never know, right?

Edited October 12, 2011 by Ogre

[DaleDVM]

Personally I like all of the speculation, discussion, and especially the griping. I am a true castle fan and collector. I don't follow other themes nearly as much. These releases only happen a couple of times a year. This is the place to let our voices be heard and enter into discussion about the new sets. I find the official anouncement of sets as exciting as getting the sets when they come out.

I wouldn't want to come read these forums if every response was "Wow great set". That would be dull.

As for all of the speculation. I think LEGO will continue with this theme if it is selling well. If not another castle theme will be along in no time at all. IMHO I would hope for more "Kingdoms" in my Kingdoms line. I think they will introduce more and this is not the end of the line, but it is just a feeling with no evidence to back it up.

As for the Black Falcon discussion. I don't think just fetching out a white plume will fix the look of the set. The tent and flags also decrease the appeal of the set for me. I could but I won't replace them since once I build this set I will part it out for MOCs anyway. It still seems to me that the set was designed for the dragon faction and then they went with the Black Falcon. Perhaps the Falcon is a Dragon Knight in disguise?... but alas with all of the green it is a pretty crappy disguise.

Other than the green details, I love everything else about the set!

[LandShark]

I completely agree with everything you just said, DaleDVM.

The green plume and tent make the Falcon Knight seem like a last minute addition. I don't think it could be a Dragon Knight in disguise, it would have said so in the description. The tent and plume would make it a lousy disguise, too.

But, one of the great things about Lego is that you can make your own story, so he can really be whoever you want him to be.

[Gryphon Ink]

I don't think it could be a Dragon Knight in disguise, it would have said so in the description.

TLG never tell you everything in the official description. There isn't any explanation for the barrel full of gold coins in the MVR, either. Why do the peasants have all this gold? Furthermore, why is one of the Dragons holding a fish in the King's Carriage Ambush set? And why a coffee mug on a space shuttle?

They are all jokes and Easter Eggs and hidden extras that let you imagine further possibilities for play. And I strongly believe that the Dragonesque Falcon Knight is another one. It's not spelled out in the description because to spell it out would have limited the play options inherent in the set. But I find it a bit hard to believe that TLG simply forgot that dark green and black happen to be the colors of the second faction in Kingdoms. Nor do I think it likely that they forgot to give the Falcon a squire.

The tent and plume would make it a lousy disguise, too.

I'd say "a cheesy disguise", in keeping with the old Lego tradition. Like burglars who go around wearing their prison uniforms to bank robberies, or pirates who have the skull and crossbones on their sails.

[LandShark]

TLG never tell you everything in the official description. There isn't any explanation for the barrel full of gold coins in the MVR, either. Why do the peasants have all this gold? Furthermore, why is one of the Dragons holding a fish in the King's Carriage Ambush set? And why a coffee mug on a space shuttle?

None of those are very important details, this is a whole new figure.

They are all jokes and Easter Eggs and hidden extras that let you imagine further possibilities for play. And I strongly believe that the Dragonesque Falcon Knight is another one. It's not spelled out in the description because to spell it out would have limited the play options inherent in the set. But I find it a bit hard to believe that TLG simply forgot that dark green and black happen to be the colors of the second faction in Kingdoms. Nor do I think it likely that they forgot to give the Falcon a squire.

I wasn't suggesting that they forgot, it just seemed a bit lazy, but I do agree that it does give you more play options.

I'd say "a cheesy disguise", in keeping with the old Lego tradition. Like burglars who go around wearing their prison uniforms to bank robberies, or pirates who have the skull and crossbones on their sails.

Okay, I'll give you that.

It still doesn't seem quite right, but like I said, it's up to your own imagination in the end.

[Piranha]

Mainly because it's fun to speculate. I like to sometimes figure out if Lego has a story arc going on among their sets. It goes without saying that using your imagination is part of the fun and it can really be whatever you want it to be.

More concretely, the figure has the same legs-torso-head combination as the figure from Blacksmith Attack. So it's a reasonable possibility that he is a dragon knight in disguise. Add in the green plume to that too, I suppose.

But all the fuss is in wondering what future sets will be. Will kingdoms continue? If it does, will there be a falcon faction? We can "look forward" to these discussions for the next few months until we see the summer lineup.

This

You do have a good point about the princess-- I had forgotten about her. So this does have far more new printed parts than the Imperial Flagship-- at least, if you don't count the sails. It's also slightly more than have been seen in many other D2C sets like Diagon Alley or the MMV. Signs that some of these prints might not be exclusive, or perhaps just signs that D2C sets are beginning to have more exclusive printed parts?

I think more likely the situation is just that TLG didn't want to release too many new prints just for a D2C set and so used as many non-faction-specific prints from the Dragon Knights as possible on the falcon knight. Even if Kingdoms were going to introduce a new Falcon faction, it wouldn't make sense to introduce an unusually large number of new prints in this set and not save any for the summer wave.

Something I've noticed a lot of mention of is how a D2C set like this tends to be a "swan song" for a theme. I think it's a bit unrealistic to call this sort of thing a trend. Imperial Flagship came out after the rest of the Pirates theme, but it's the only example I can think of right at the moment. Otherwise, MMV was a January 2009 set, before the three-set summer wave that introduced the Trolls' Mountain Fortress. Diagon Alley also was a January set that preceded a summer wave in the Harry Potter theme. D2C sets in the Star Wars theme have never indicated the end of that theme, for obvious reasons. So overall I think it's foolish to think themed D2C sets are "swan songs" for their theme-- all examples but one suggest otherwise.

Now, this doesn't mean the set couldn't be the last set in the Kingdoms line. After all, the Imperial Flagship is still precedent for that sort of thing. But frankly, there's no reason to think that at this stage of the game. It's just leaping to conclusions based on one major disappointment.

I agree with everything you just said.

Well, technically, it merely means 'more than one', since it's a pluralized name, thus eliminating the possiblity of ONLY one. Anything "more than two" is pure speculation, or "wishful thinking" by fans.

Ever since I warmed-up to this theme, I HOPED it meant that the theme would continue for longer than LEGO's curren't "normal run length" and add additional kingdoms into the mix but, I'm not so certain that's going to happen. At this point in time, it's looking like "fantasy era" will have had more "kingdoms" than "Kingdoms" will.

*EDIT*

I got to thinking about this reply of mine and something suddenly dawned on me: the theme is called "Kingdoms"...plural...as in 'more than one'...BUT...we have, so far, seen only ONE KING! Two FACTIONS, yes, but only ONE king, hence only ONE 'kingdom'. Now, I realize that this means NOTHING and that I'm just grasping at straws, striving for some faint hope that this theme will continue but...well...you just never know, right?

well I am still on this bandwagon that it will continue you bring a valid point we have no rival King or queen or castle (although yes the Dragons do look good as more less organized band of knights than an actual established kingdom.

Another thing I speculate on is why they gave us a princess in a green dress, is she simply the Lion Princess in casual garb or perhaps the dragon princess or someone else entirely?

TLG never tell you everything in the official description. There isn't any explanation for the barrel full of gold coins in the MVR, either. Why do the peasants have all this gold? Furthermore, why is one of the Dragons holding a fish in the King's Carriage Ambush set? And why a coffee mug on a space shuttle?

They are all jokes and Easter Eggs and hidden extras that let you imagine further possibilities for play. And I strongly believe that the Dragonesque Falcon Knight is another one. It's not spelled out in the description because to spell it out would have limited the play options inherent in the set. But I find it a bit hard to believe that TLG simply forgot that dark green and black happen to be the colors of the second faction in Kingdoms. Nor do I think it likely that they forgot to give the Falcon a squire.

I'd say "a cheesy disguise", in keeping with the old Lego tradition. Like burglars who go around wearing their prison uniforms to bank robberies, or pirates who have the skull and crossbones on their sails.

Great post here. Don't forget about the Popsicle in the recent SW Hoth Base set and leaves for the Taun Taun

I love how TLG does little jokes like this however it is one of my favorite aspects.

Maybe that does explain why we have a Black Falcon with dark green color scheme and the same armor, maybe TLG is really playing games with us

[David Thomsen]

Another thing I speculate on is why they gave us a princess in a green dress, is she simply the Lion Princess in casual garb or perhaps the dragon princess or someone else entirely?

Yes, I can't quite figure her out either. Same thing with the 'nobleman', what is that on the medallion he's wearing? It looks kind of like the face of a dragon, but why would he be wearing a Dragon pendant with Lion colours?

Personally (and I can't believe I'm joining in the speculation here) I think the 'princess' here belongs to the Forestmen faction. I know the Forestmen are supposed to be a ragtag group of outsiders, but if they're to be a 'kingdom' in this theme of 'kingdoms', they'll need to have a king, and a queen... and a princess.

Yes, that's right... I think the Joust set has a Black Falcon knight and a Forestmen princess.

As for the 'nobleman'... I don't have a clue. Maybe he got the medallion off a Dragon soldier in battle, and now wears it to show off his victory?

Edited October 13, 2011 by David Thomsen

[Artanis I]

Well, technically, it merely means 'more than one', since it's a pluralized name, thus eliminating the possiblity of ONLY one. Anything "more than two" is pure speculation, or "wishful thinking" by fans.

Ever since I warmed-up to this theme, I HOPED it meant that the theme would continue for longer than LEGO's curren't "normal run length" and add additional kingdoms into the mix but, I'm not so certain that's going to happen. At this point in time, it's looking like "fantasy era" will have had more "kingdoms" than "Kingdoms" will.

*EDIT*

I got to thinking about this reply of mine and something suddenly dawned on me: the theme is called "Kingdoms"...plural...as in 'more than one'...BUT...we have, so far, seen only ONE KING! Two FACTIONS, yes, but only ONE king, hence only ONE 'kingdom'. Now, I realize that this means NOTHING and that I'm just grasping at straws, striving for some faint hope that this theme will continue but...well...you just never know, right?

Actually, it's one kingdom but we do have 3 kings...

Another thing I speculate on is why they gave us a princess in a green dress, is she simply the Lion Princess in casual garb or perhaps the dragon princess or someone else entirely?

Maybe some people wear whatever the heck coloured clothes they want.

[Piranha]

Actually, it's one kingdom but we do have 3 kings...

Maybe some people wear whatever the heck coloured clothes they want.

party pooper

[LandShark]

Yes, I can't quite figure her out either. Same thing with the 'nobleman', what is that on the medallion he's wearing? It looks kind of like the face of a dragon, but why would he be wearing a Dragon pendant with Lion colours?

Personally (and I can't believe I'm joining in the speculation here) I think the 'princess' here belongs to the Forestmen faction. I know the Forestmen are supposed to be a ragtag group of outsiders, but if they're to be a 'kingdom' in this theme of 'kingdoms', they'll need to have a king, and a queen... and a princess.

Yes, that's right... I think the Joust set has a Black Falcon knight and a Forestmen princess.

As for the 'nobleman'... I don't have a clue. Maybe he got the medallion off a Dragon soldier in battle, and now wears it to show off his victory?

Confusing.

I hope Lego clears this up, either with a better description, or in future waves.

Maybe some people wear whatever the heck coloured clothes they want.

I don't know, Lego Castle has always been pretty colour co-ordinated.

[Haltiamieli]

Same thing with the 'nobleman', what is that on the medallion he's wearing? It looks kind of like the face of a dragon, but why would he be wearing a Dragon pendant with Lion colours?

I think it is "clearly" a fleur-de-lis-inspired depiction of a cluster of grapes, but why? If he had been introduced as a wine merchant... Could it just be symbolising his wealth? I could see that. Grapes are not unknown to heraldry, at least.

As for the princess, she's dyed her hair if she's the same character as in Prison Tower Rescue. Maybe it's the rebellious younger sister who likes to unsettle her father by wearing the colour of their enemy? For my purposes she'll be a noblewoman instead of royalty anyway, so the colour won't have that much significance. I kinda wonder if that wasn't the designer's original idea too, but then someone decided that she should be a princess instead, for the purposes of the story outline.

[David Thomsen]

Waaait... the original Falcon Knights totally used the colour green! Just look at the flags here:

He's a Black Falcon... cleverly disguised using the colours of the original Black Falcon castle.

I think it is "clearly" a fleur-de-lis-inspired depiction of a cluster of grapes, but why? If he had been introduced as a wine merchant... Could it just be symbolising his wealth? I could see that. Grapes are not unknown to heraldry, at least.

Huh... when I first saw the torso I though it was a bunch of grapes, but couldn't figure out what was sticking out of the top of it... now I see that it is indeed a kind of fleur-de-lis. Unfortunately I think I'll always see the face of a dragon when I look at it now.

I don't really like that a 'nobleman' is wearing the Lion colours, but the 'princess' isn't. I think that the nobleman should be wearing purple, or blue - as it is he looks like a Lion prince who wore the wrong heraldry to work. This is why I'm going to replace him with the prince from the advent calendar.

Edited October 13, 2011 by David Thomsen

[smellsgood]

I'll probably make the nobleman the king's steward or something. That would explain why he's color coordinated. :)

I think that it's pretty weird that they made the black falcon stuff green instead of blue, but still totally awesome that they added a new black falcon guy. I'm glad to know that the black falcons did use green before, haha.

Edited October 13, 2011 by smellsgood

[Vindicare]

Waaait... the original Falcon Knights totally used the colour green! Just look at the flags here:

He's a Black Falcon... cleverly disguised using the colours of the original Black Falcon castle.

Nice spot! So, it would seem that it truly is a Falcon Knight.

[pedro]

Looks like I'm a little late to the party here... but I've got to show my appreciation.

The Kingdoms theme has brought us some truly great sets, harking back to the sets of old (King's Castle) while introducing superb new civilian sets (Mill Village Raid). Kingdoms Joust continues this trend - it looks simply fantastic. If it really is to be Kingdom's swan-song then the theme then it's going in style! The castle and periphery create a striking setting for the Black Falcons' return. The details are lavish and the minifigs are perfect for populating the scene.

This will make a fine addition to many a Kingdoms collection - can't wait 'til it's part of mine.

[Nikola Bathory]

A Falcon Knight? Falcons are back?

Anyway, I really like this set. I'm not sure about the photos - is this 1 set or 2 sets combined?

Anyway, I realy like the details, the whole scene, I will buy 1, I won't have money for 2.

[Magnus the Great]

My first impression was: awesome set. Plenty of minifigs, a new faction, a new lady, roofed towers, a grand entrance & so on. As I looked closer at it, I was a bit disappointed.

• The Lion Prince is great but hardly the most desired (imho). This means we have three different male leader minifigs for the lions. The first from King's Castle & the second from King's Carriage Ambush. There is still no noble leader for the dragons, unless you count the warlock or the champion.
  
• Since I prefer several small factions than a few large, I wish the black knight's arms, the bird to be exact, differed more from the old black falcons. Maybe a bird with its wings retracted. I will nevertheless use him for a new faction.
  
• Where are the squires? Replace the guards with squires. Squires are crucial for a set like this.
  
• Only one civilian, an ostler? This is a perfect set to add a few civilians. Four nobles is two too many.
  

Among previous comments there seems to be concern that the Kingdoms Joust means the end of Kingdoms-line. If we compare it with MMV it is quite possible. However, I see good possibilities to expand Kingdoms Joust with a medieval fair or a joust addon set. The later would only require a knight, a squire & a tent, oh & a new faction. I believe Kingdoms Joust marks the start of a new faction.

Whether or not the black knight is a Dragon knight in disguise or a Neo Black Falcon doesn't matter. His torso is generic so it is for you to decide. For me it is a new faction - Black Eagles. I will replace his plume with a white BF Double Plume.

As usual it sucks to live in Sweden. Retail price is 1399 sek (212 usd, 152 eur).

Same thing with the 'nobleman', what is that on the medallion he's wearing? It looks kind of like the face of a dragon, but why would he be wearing a Dragon pendant with Lion colours?

I see a lions head.

Edited October 14, 2011 by Magnus the Great