Which 'Space' theme should LEGO revive?

[Aanchir]

@Aanchir

I don't see how the detachable and interchangeable cockpit design would get old, at least not in the longevity of one set. Blacktron II had several vehicles with interchangeable cockpits, IIRC.

I'm actually working on an interchangeable cockpit design right now. a simple design that connects and disconnects easily can be a big plus.

IMHO

Yes, but it tends to bother me when a theme is designed with a gimmick that can't last much longer than one year or wave, because that usually means if the theme is successful enough to continue, later waves will be forced to abandon the gimmick that unified the theme's sets in the first place.

However, let it be known that I have tried to design in interchangeable cockpit design into my Blacktron III MOCs on LDD, in the spirit of Blacktron II. My experiments haven't gone well. It's hard to make a cockpit that's interchangeable but still sleek-looking (I want at least a little bit of a sleek design so as to pay homage to Blacktron I's fearsome spacecraft as well as Blacktron II's bubbly ones), especially one that can be used in a variety of set designs without making all the sets feel too similar to one another.

I think Blacktron's "escape craft" are the perfect bad guy analogue to Space Police's prison pods, so I want some of that interchangeability present in any sort of Blacktron revival. With parts in colors that currently exist, though, it isn't working out that well. Hope your own experiments have better success than mine have so far!

[Algernon]

Well, in my case, they're the most iconic good guys. They have a consistent gimmick-- prison pods-- that doesn't detract from the building experience and never feels too gimmicky or old-fashioned. And since you need good guys to have bad guys, then someone's got to be revived.

Some people treat Unitron as a "good guy theme", but I can never find any legitimate story information about Unitron, especially because it was a US-only theme for the most part. I wish I could find someone who has Mania Magazine scans up for download, but I never can. And anyway, their gimmick-- cockpit modules that are interchangeable between almost all the sets-- could get old really fast IMO.

Something to keep in mind is that Space Police has been revived twice It has demonstrated its staying power quite effectively. And I don't think theme revivals should be on the basis of what's "due" for a revival-- rather, they should be merit-based, and Space Police sets have a lot of merits in all iterations.

Plus, I'm still a little disappointed that Space Police ended so soon. It lived a good life, lasting about three waves of sets, but I had been hoping foolishly for a Blacktron revival. And I don't think you can do a Blacktron revival justice without the Space Police.

Well, in the Spyrius theme review I did awhile back, I remember finding a picture of Spyrius attacking the Unitron monorail. I don't know if that necessarily makes Unitron a GOOD guy theme, but at the very least, they had a common enemy with Ice Planet 2002.

(lol nerds)

As for the Space Police, I really feel like that concept has been walked over, and I suspect LEGO feels the same way. The 2009/2010 revival was a nice theme that I definitely enjoyed, but it bore very little resemblance to the old sets... and LEGO seems to have interpreted the name "Space Police" just a little too literally for my taste. It feels like a much different theme - one that definitely has its merits - but it barely qualifies as a revival.

Blacktron is just a "bad guy" theme, and that doesn't really hold up conceptually for LEGO's current marketing model. I'm sure there are designers at LEGO who would love to re-imagine the old Blacktron sets, but unfortunately for them (and us), that's not how LEGO goes about picking themes to revive.

Basically, you're right - without the Space Police, there can't be a Blacktron, and since Space Police has already happened, I assume that Blacktron is pretty much out of the question.

That's why I voted Ice Planet - it really lends itself to a re-imagination. It shouldn't be too hard for LEGO to come up with some Ice baddies for the scientists to fight. Plus, the eye-catching color scheme really lends itself to LEGO's current colorblindness.

[Aanchir]

Well, in the Spyrius theme review I did awhile back, I remember finding a picture of Spyrius attacking the Unitron monorail. I don't know if that necessarily makes Unitron a GOOD guy theme, but at the very least, they had a common enemy with Ice Planet 2002.

(lol nerds)

As for the Space Police, I really feel like that concept has been walked over, and I suspect LEGO feels the same way. The 2009/2010 revival was a nice theme that I definitely enjoyed, but it bore very little resemblance to the old sets... and LEGO seems to have interpreted the name "Space Police" just a little too literally for my taste. It feels like a much different theme - one that definitely has its merits - but it barely qualifies as a revival.

Blacktron is just a "bad guy" theme, and that doesn't really hold up conceptually for LEGO's current marketing model. I'm sure there are designers at LEGO who would love to re-imagine the old Blacktron sets, but unfortunately for them (and us), that's not how LEGO goes about picking themes to revive.

Basically, you're right - without the Space Police, there can't be a Blacktron, and since Space Police has already happened, I assume that Blacktron is pretty much out of the question.

That's why I voted Ice Planet - it really lends itself to a re-imagination. It shouldn't be too hard for LEGO to come up with some Ice baddies for the scientists to fight. Plus, the eye-catching color scheme really lends itself to LEGO's current colorblindness.

I disagree about the most recent iteration of Space Police. True, it has a much more obvious "police" aspect than previous versions, with typical police car color schemes and gang-based adversaries far less organized than Space Police's traditional enemies (usually spies). But it kept the "prison cell" gimmick that had been at the theme's core since the very beginning (something I didn't even know about until the revival-- I had never gotten any Space Police sets but the smallest ones in the first two iterations).

SPIII also was chock-full of references to older Space themes. So personally, I think that by keeping the most consistent design elements of the original Space Police theme, it was a perfectly valid revival, but even if you disagree it was definitely a respectful homage to the original line.

Now, this may in part stem from how I feel about adaptations and re-imaginings in general, whether in the form of movies, TV shows, or LEGO themes. I feel loyalty to the source material is often overrated, and while it's always a major bonus if a loyal adaptation can be pulled off, I also respect a complete re-imagining that maintains only what the new author considers the fundamental elements of the source material. For an example, the most recent Batman films are stylistically very different than any previous interpretations, with much grittier and more down-to-earth portrayals of the franchise's iconic "theme villains". But I appreciate them just for variety's sake. It's fun seeing someone else's perspective on a franchise, and if they don't have the talent to make their own vision enjoyable for people in general then another author can always come forward to give their perspective.

Anyway, I agree that Blacktron is a lot harder to revive than Space Police was, since it was really "just a bad guy theme". The modular sections of the first iteration could maybe be compared to the spherical, interchangeable "escape capsules" of the second, but it's still not as consistent a concept as the three Space Police iterations, which shared their primary gimmick.

Ice Planet could be worth a revival, but I just don't like the theme quite as much as I like some other Space themes. Which is odd, since I believe an Ice Planet set (Ice-Sat V) may have been my first LEGO Space set, and I have fond memories of building it. The concept of Spyrius just interests me a lot more in this day and age.

[Ogre]

I just wanted to say that I'm REALLY enjoying reading all the posts on this topic, especially when folks get right into the nitty-gritty of WHY they want a particular theme revived...or why NOT, for that matter. Very interesting reading.

[Algernon]

I disagree about the most recent iteration of Space Police. True, it has a much more obvious "police" aspect than previous versions, with typical police car color schemes and gang-based adversaries far less organized than Space Police's traditional enemies (usually spies). But it kept the "prison cell" gimmick that had been at the theme's core since the very beginning (something I didn't even know about until the revival-- I had never gotten any Space Police sets but the smallest ones in the first two iterations).

SPIII also was chock-full of references to older Space themes. So personally, I think that by keeping the most consistent design elements of the original Space Police theme, it was a perfectly valid revival, but even if you disagree it was definitely a respectful homage to the original line.

I definitely enjoyed the references in Space Police 3, but I'm not convinced that makes it a true "revival" of the theme so much as a throwback. True, they did maintain the prison cell gimmick, but the resemblance pretty much ends there.

For comparison, I think Power Miners was more a revival of Rock Raiders than Space Police 3 was a revival of Space Police. Power Miners had the same enemies (rock monsters), same aesthetic, and same vibe as the Rock Raiders sets... with one obvious exception being the color scheme. But I still see more of the original themes of Rock Raiders in Power Miners than I do with Space Police.

.... that being said, however, I actually like Space Police 3 quite a bit more than the original Space Police. I guess I'm not much of a purist. XD

Now, this may in part stem from how I feel about adaptations and re-imaginings in general, whether in the form of movies, TV shows, or LEGO themes. I feel loyalty to the source material is often overrated, and while it's always a major bonus if a loyal adaptation can be pulled off, I also respect a complete re-imagining that maintains only what the new author considers the fundamental elements of the source material. For an example, the most recent Batman films are stylistically very different than any previous interpretations, with much grittier and more down-to-earth portrayals of the franchise's iconic "theme villains". But I appreciate them just for variety's sake. It's fun seeing someone else's perspective on a franchise, and if they don't have the talent to make their own vision enjoyable for people in general then another author can always come forward to give their perspective.

True enough. In Batman's case, though, a darker and more serious approach was pretty much a stable of the franchise from the beginning. Batman TAS was cartoony but still extremely dark and very serious in tone. Batman Arkham Asylum also follows a very gritty, down-to-Earth feel. The movies just had to work especially hard to make such a ludicrous universe seem plausible.

Anyway, I agree that Blacktron is a lot harder to revive than Space Police was, since it was really "just a bad guy theme". The modular sections of the first iteration could maybe be compared to the spherical, interchangeable "escape capsules" of the second, but it's still not as consistent a concept as the three Space Police iterations, which shared their primary gimmick.

Exactly - I think LEGO probably feels that they've already revived Blacktron, what with all the references to the theme in Space Police 3.

Ice Planet could be worth a revival, but I just don't like the theme quite as much as I like some other Space themes. Which is odd, since I believe an Ice Planet set (Ice-Sat V) may have been my first LEGO Space set, and I have fond memories of building it. The concept of Spyrius just interests me a lot more in this day and age.

To each his own - I actually liked Ice Planet quite a bit more than I liked Space Police 1 and 2.

[Tanma]

I put Life on Mars, as they were the first Lego Space sets I ever received. It has fond memories for me, plus as far as I know it had the first aliens who were not Minifigures. Those Martians also had a very unique build, compared to the Space Ploice III criminals like Kranxx and Slizer. The Mars Missions aliens also had exotic bodies, but unlike the Martians they couldn't move their arms and heads. Not to mention the appeal of Mechs...

I also voted for classic space, since it was the longest lasting Space Theme.

[Algernon]

I put Life on Mars, as they were the first Lego Space sets I ever received. It has fond memories for me, plus as far as I know it had the first aliens who were not Minifigures. Those Martians also had a very unique build, compared to the Space Ploice III criminals like Kranxx and Slizer. The Mars Missions aliens also had exotic bodies, but unlike the Martians they couldn't move their arms and heads. Not to mention the appeal of Mechs...

Word for word, I agree. Life on Mars was terribly underrated, and I have fond memories of it.

That said, though, I don't know if I really want to see it revived... since it kind of already was.

[zero1312]

I think U.F.O. and Spyrius deserve a chance.

Alien Conquest showed how little effort is needed to design flying saucers, heck a friend of mine

modded AC ufos in U.F.O. style. And don't get me started on the back then awesome Spyrius robots.

Give them a chance, LEGO!!!

Edited September 11, 2011 by zero1312

[1980-Something-Space-Guy]

I, for one, loved Lego's recent revival of Space Police, and I actually liked the designs resembling more those of real world police. To me, it is the best of the recent space themes that came after the nineties. My only complaints are probably, as has been said before, that there were no aliens on the Space Police corps! And no human criminals!

Seeing how Lego made a ver nice space villain, Blacktron-themed, I think that they could've made a revival just as good of Blacktron. Alas, we got none, but maybe later. Even space pirates could be a great theme.

As for Ice Planet, I hadn't given it much thought since it doesn't feel like a theme that needs a good revival right now, but now that I think about ir, they could make a great revival.

An idea that hasn't been explored before is exploration of an alien jungle planet. Something like Avatar, just not smurf-inspired. Perhaps we should also have a thread for new space ideas LOL

[Tanma]

Word for word, I agree. Life on Mars was terribly underrated, and I have fond memories of it.

That said, though, I don't know if I really want to see it revived... since it kind of already was.

I am not sure if that is true. Sure, Mars Mission had exotic aliens like Life on Mars, and both were on the red planet, but aside from that I think they were quite different. Mars Mission was a war, battling over resources with only one way to play. But Life on Mars was a first contact story, with both worlds about equal in tech. While you could have the Martians and Earthlings go to war, the theme was laid out in such a way that the two races could come together. It wasn't a good guy-bad guy story, it was a story about two races interacting. The aliens weren't evil, but the earthlings weren't necessarily either. It seemed a little more...real...than Space Police III for example, where all aliens are bad and all earthlings are good.

[Aanchir]

I am not sure if that is true. Sure, Mars Mission had exotic aliens like Life on Mars, and both were on the red planet, but aside from that I think they were quite different. Mars Mission was a war, battling over resources with only one way to play. But Life on Mars was a first contact story, with both worlds about equal in tech. While you could have the Martians and Earthlings go to war, the theme was laid out in such a way that the two races could come together. It wasn't a good guy-bad guy story, it was a story about two races interacting. The aliens weren't evil, but the earthlings weren't necessarily either. It seemed a little more...real...than Space Police III for example, where all aliens are bad and all earthlings are good.

I think part of what made Life On Mars so different from Mars Mission, though, is the same thing that would make it impossible to do a proper revival of. I, for one, loved the story. But I don't want to hear it all over again, nor would new stories with the same characters and settings be at all likely to maintain the same charm as the original.

[Algernon]

I think part of what made Life On Mars so different from Mars Mission, though, is the same thing that would make it impossible to do a proper revival of. I, for one, loved the story. But I don't want to hear it all over again, nor would new stories with the same characters and settings be at all likely to maintain the same charm as the original.

These are my thoughts as well. Although, talking about it has given me the urge to go back and rebuild my Recon Mech RP.

[ExpiredHero]

I voted for Ice Planet and Blacktron.

Back in Christmas 1993 when I was the young age of ten, my parents and grandparents chipped in and got me the whole Ice Planet range (with multiples of the smaller sets). Before that I had only gotten a few bits and pieces from different themes so having a whole range was pretty big for me and being able to create a whole planetscape using them was amazing at that age. I remember very vividly spending the afternoon building everying with my Grandad - as such the sets have a special place in my heart.

For the remaining Space themes Blacktron (Future Generation) and M-Tron were up there with Ice Planet in my eyes, but I think that Blacktron would be better suited for a modern day remake compared to M-Tron. I just don't think the magnet gimmick would cut it in todays market.

[SONIC883]

I vote for classic space for the same reason you other do - I grown up with them.

My beginning was around 1982 with the Surface Transport.

I like the grey/blue scheme, the white/blue with Light&Sound was okay, too, but it is a different feeling.

Actually I have no sets and my efforts to buy some Sets at the 'electric bay' wasn't lucky. So I decide to buy new stuff for my collection.

TLG, the time is right to bring back a space theme!

- Kai

Edited September 14, 2011 by SONIC883

[Giovanne]

My votes go to Blacktron, M-Tron and Classic Space, but I would like Futuron also.

But, I still would like to see the Seatron theme, maybe as substitute to Atlantis, I also have a idea : The Atlantis divers are sent in a mission by a Space Agency to a oceanic planet... In the planet, the divers, now astronaut-divers, discover various Alien species underwater, and start a battle...

Well, the Space Agency interest in the Atlantis divers is because already know that the divers fought creatures from the deep ocean.

Thanks, Giovanne.

Edited September 17, 2011 by Giovanne

[1980-Something-Space-Guy]

My votes go to Blacktron, M-Tron and Classic Space, but I would like Futuron also.

But, I still would like to see the Seatron theme, maybe as substitute to Atlantis, I also have a idea : The Atlantis divers are sent in a mission by a Space Agency to a oceanic planet... In the planet, the divers, now astronaut-divers, discover various Alien species underwater, and start a battle...

Well, the Space Agency interest in the Atlantis divers is because already know that the divers fought creatures from the deep ocean.

Thanks, Giovanne.

I'd also like to see some Seatron. Perhaps some Aquanauts/space hybrid, or just put more sci-fi into Aquanauts? After all, Aquanauts is the result of what was going to be Seatron. I'd just like it to be clear that it is a space theme. Perhaps some sets that are not underwater, but let the guys go underwater (like the Seatron monorail, which had a track with its lower parts colored blue, meaning the monorail went underwater). Who wouldn't have loved to see that monorail in the store shelves.

[Aanchir]

I'd also like to see some Seatron. Perhaps some Aquanauts/space hybrid, or just put more sci-fi into Aquanauts? After all, Aquanauts is the result of what was going to be Seatron. I'd just like it to be clear that it is a space theme. Perhaps some sets that are not underwater, but let the guys go underwater (like the Seatron monorail, which had a track with its lower parts colored blue, meaning the monorail went underwater). Who wouldn't have loved to see that monorail in the store shelves.

TLG wouldn't have loved to see that monorail on store shelves. Incidentally, one reason the monorail was probably scrapped is that the other monorail sets hadn't been too successful, so I'm sure TLG was a bit fed up with seeing monorails on store shelves and not in the hands of consumers.

Seatron was a cool idea, but I kind of liked how Aquazone blossomed as a theme of its own rather than just as a space theme.

[1980-Something-Space-Guy]

TLG wouldn't have loved to see that monorail on store shelves. Incidentally, one reason the monorail was probably scrapped is that the other monorail sets hadn't been too successful, so I'm sure TLG was a bit fed up with seeing monorails on store shelves and not in the hands of consumers.

Seatron was a cool idea, but I kind of liked how Aquazone blossomed as a theme of its own rather than just as a space theme.

I guess you're right.

I didn't know that monorails were not successful. Why was that? The price tag?

I love the way Aquazone turned out, and still see it as a space theme. But who knows? Perhaps it would be interesting to see an Aquazone-like theme with a few characteristic space elements.

Fortunately, I think that even if Lego doesn't revive any of these space themes, there are other great ideas that haven't been used. That is not to say that I don't want Blacktron to come back

Edited September 17, 2011 by johnnyvgoode

[Ogre]

TLG wouldn't have loved to see that monorail on store shelves. Incidentally, one reason the monorail was probably scrapped is that the other monorail sets hadn't been too successful, so I'm sure TLG was a bit fed up with seeing monorails on store shelves and not in the hands of consumers.

I loved those monorail sets...but, couldn't afford them. The price tag was pretty steep and I couldn't even swing one as a Christmas present due to the price.

[Blacktron]

I have this feeling, Lego tries to satisfy these two groups of customers:

- kids, who still buy most of all lego sets, from city to star wars.

- adult collectors, that are interested in building technical stuff - and are buying mainly Lego technic.

I see a third group of collectors that doesn't get much attention from Lego: Adult collectors who are not in technic stuff and collect toys from their childhood out of nostalgic reasons. These group of fans are in large number in other fandoms like Star Wars, Star Trek, GI Joe or Masters of the universe. Companys like Hasbro and Mattel found ways to earn a lot of money by producing toys for those nostalgic collectors. But Lego doesn't care much about them. I wonder why? Maybe there simply aren't enough collectors who would buy Blacktron, Ice Planet or other classic space products?

[Aanchir]

I have this feeling, Lego tries to satisfy these two groups of customers:

- kids, who still buy most of all lego sets, from city to star wars.

- adult collectors, that are interested in building technical stuff - and are buying mainly Lego technic.

I see a third group of collectors that doesn't get much attention from Lego: Adult collectors who are not in technic stuff and collect toys from their childhood out of nostalgic reasons. These group of fans are in large number in other fandoms like Star Wars, Star Trek, GI Joe or Masters of the universe. Companys like Hasbro and Mattel found ways to earn a lot of money by producing toys for those nostalgic collectors. But Lego doesn't care much about them. I wonder why? Maybe there simply aren't enough collectors who would buy Blacktron, Ice Planet or other classic space products?

That could indeed be part of it. In the case of Star Wars, pretty much anyone who remembers the first film has at least a bit of nostalgia for it. Even if they didn't see it when it first came out, it can be one of the films that introduced them to the franchise, or even just a film that showed Where It All Began. With LEGO, the themes people will be most nostalgic for will almost invariably be the ones they remember from their own childhoods, which varies with age range. It might not be their first LEGO theme, either-- I have a particular nostalgia for BIONICLE, which didn't begin until I was at least ten years old. I think it would more likely be the theme that they invested the most time and attention towards.

Some people look back fondly at Classic Space, while others, like myself, weren't even around to see it. I still appreciate it, but it's less because of nostalgia and more because of the "retro" set designs and historical significance. I never got any Blacktron sets except second-hand ones through yard sales and the like. But I think it's perhaps the quintessential villainous space theme, although I'd definitely have to call Spyrius (a theme I did live through) the most iconic.

LEGO obviously does design some things with nostalgic value in mind. The Space Villain in Collectible Minifigures Series 3 was definitely designed to appeal to someone's nostalgia, whether it was the buyer's or the designer's. Space Police III was also designed with a lot of callbacks to older Space themes, including the extremely retro Rench minifigure. The semi-recent Town Plan set was a clear re-imagining of the older Town Plan, albeit with different buildings and a sense of nostalgia not only for older LEGO sets but also for historical architectural styles.

But as for designing whole themes based on nostalgia, I don't really think that's within TLG's power. LEGO is at its core a kids' toy, and while certain sets and products can be designed to appeal to the periphery demographic of AFOLs, they are all still designed with the intention that kids can enjoy them (sometimes better than others, as seen with the Shuttle Adventure which was meant as a display piece and could not really hold up well during play).

Any theme that is revived in any way has to be at least partially re-imagined to appeal to today's kids. And really, I would argue that a re-imagining would be truer to the original set designs than just a modernized redesign, as the original themes' appeal came from their ability to appeal to the kids of the eras in which they were released, and so a new theme that targeted only nostalgic adult buyers would be following the letter but not the spirit of the theme.

[-zenn]

I'd say Blacktron, because it can easily accompany the Space Police III line. If so maybe even some other Blacktron enemies.

[Zzz]

Classic all the way. I loved Futuron, M-Tron, Blacktron 1 and Ice Planet as well, but when I look at all those remakes people show in flickr or Brickshelf, there are so many possibilities with todays colours, bricks and techniques, that make the usually boring combination of light grey and blue appear like the invention of the wheel.

[Bricknave]

One of the space themes I would like to see revived is Ice Planet, and the reason is because it could take place on Europa, which has been suggested to have the possibility of supporting life via underground ocean. This way, if the theme was to have non-Humans, they could be sea-creatures so the theme would be both the annual space and underwater themes morphed together!

[1980-Something-Space-Guy]

One of the space themes I would like to see revived is Ice Planet, and the reason is because it could take place on Europa, which has been suggested to have the possibility of supporting life via underground ocean. This way, if the theme was to have non-Humans, they could be sea-creatures so the theme would be both the annual space and underwater themes morphed together!

Sounds like a great idea to me! Too bad Lego (claims that the company) doesn't accept suggestions.