The Penguin Posted August 31, 2011 This thread is dedicated to Batman, as he's depicted in comic stories, games and our imagination. However DC universe is far bigger than Gotham, so other DC characters are also welcome here. Good day, ladies and gentlemen! ) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vimes Posted August 31, 2011 Good! Perfect timing for me... After a comic-hiatus of about two decades I recently found my way back to the world of DC, especially the adventures of Batman. Well, I was a little bit overwhelmed trying to catch up with all the stuff and character development that happened (No Man's Land, Hush, Batman R.I.P., The Return of Bruce Wayne and much, much more - including Red Robin, the new Batgirl Steph Brown etc.). Next, I will follow the "Batman Incorporated" series. So, what do you think about Bruce Waynes taking his war on crime to the next level, by essentially "franchising" it and drafting, training and commanding a global team of heroes who will answer to Batman himself? At first, I didn't like this new form of "global Batman" at all. Batman, the character of this fear infusing superhero, is some sort of loner (yes, I know there is/are Robin/s, Nightwing etc.), a mystery and one of a kind. I liked him that way. I'll see what I think about it after delving in this new (for me, anyway) series... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Penguin Posted August 31, 2011 Well, I share your sentiments to some point. At first I was rather shocked after Bane broke him, but later it turned to be an interesting plot twist. I really liked No Man's Land, even though the idea of Gotham, being leveled to the ground sounds almost heretic for an "official timeline" so to say. I even enjoyed Hush, though thought that the story had much more potintial, frankly. As for Global Batman, I'm quite agressive towards that type of stuff. Foe me it's like batman orbiting the earth with the rest of JL. That is just wrong. IMHO. Perhaps, I'm still lagging far behind, but for me "true" Batman will always remain a BTASque one with more mature features: a demented, tortured loner, who whants never to exist. In my view Batman is the character that does not want to rid world of crime, but a character who deep inside hates the sheer fact of his existance. It's not easy to understand, but give it a thought, should you like. ) Good day, ladies and gentlemen! ) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LandShark Posted September 1, 2011 Thanks for creating this topic, Penguin. Greatly appreciated. Like I've said in various other places, I only got into Batman fairly recently. But now I've seen every movie, watched loads of TV episodes (60's series and BTAS), and am almost finished reading my second graphic novel (Year One). On the comic/graphic novel side of things, I don't really follow a specific continuity. There's been so many 'incarnations' of Batman, and each author depicts him in their own unique way. I also am not a big fan of the comics story-lines in recent years (Batman R.I.P, Batman Incorporated). I haven't read them, so maybe I'm being unfair, they just don't seem like the kind of Batman I like. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Penguin Posted September 2, 2011 (edited) That is a nice coincedense, since I finished reaading Year One yesterday, myself! *BOO!* Yes-yes, I haven't read it before! So what?! I guess it indeed is one of the best storylines I've read so far, but I really can't help but think that the main hero there is not really Batman but Jim Gordon. I think that the character has been portrayed in a great way, showing his true noble and somewhat rough nature. As for continuity, my best advice will be not to think about that. Not to try and incorporate it all. You'll end up in Arkham Asylum! Speaking of it. Do read Arkham Asylum: Serious House on Serious Earth. It is quite different from what we usually get in comic stories about Batman. And definitely is one of the best ones. I'd also recommend No Man's Land I haven't read the comic stories, I just picked up a novel by Greg Rucka (one of the best Batman authors). It is an easy and fun read. And it has me in it! Good day, ladies and gentlemen! ) Edited September 2, 2011 by The Penguin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vimes Posted September 2, 2011 "Arkham Asylum: Serious House on Serious Earth" was an interesting setting - strange, creepy, ugly and dark, like a nightmare. I enjoyed it, but not in a way I enjoyed more "classical" or "canonical" Batman stories. For my plan to catch up with the latest development of the Batman setting I used this list of comics (modern Batman) for waypoints: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Batman_comics#Modern_Batman In no way I succeded in collecting all required comics to complete that list (and I don't want to - the monetary aspect alone prevents any possible intention), but I tried to complete those series out there, that where deemed as "milestones" by the fanbase (Knightfall, No Man's Land, Hush etc.). Hard enough. So long, I'm not disappointed. Batman Incorporated on the other hand... Well, I still have to delve into that... And, yes, Batman TAS is a great favourite of mine, too! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LandShark Posted September 3, 2011 That is a nice coincedense, since I finished reaading Year One yesterday, myself! *BOO!* Yes-yes, I haven't read it before! So what?! I guess it indeed is one of the best storylines I've read so far, but I really can't help but think that the main hero there is not really Batman but Jim Gordon. I think that the character has been portrayed in a great way, showing his true noble and somewhat rough nature. As for continuity, my best advice will be not to think about that. Not to try and incorporate it all. You'll end up in Arkham Asylum! Speaking of it. Do read Arkham Asylum: Serious House on Serious Earth. I just finished Year One, and I do agree that Gordon was a great character in it. I'm just about to start reading The Killing Joke, have you read that one? I'm not too sure about Arkham Asylum, it just seems a bit... not right. I might try it out though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpiox Posted September 10, 2011 Are we allowed to talk about villains as well, Mr Cobblepot? If so, do you guys dislike the way any villains are portrayed, does anyone have their own version of a villain. I'd love to hear about it. I'm like that about The Riddler, he's normaly shown as weak and scrawney wearing that stupid skin-tight green thing . I have my own view, I prefer to think of his as a clever villain, always wanting to outsmart Batman. I'n my version he's still unlikely to win fights, but he's not pathetic or weak. He fights with his staff and uses agile fighting syle. My custom wears the green thingy, but he has more muscle and a belt with things on it, it isn't skin-tight, instead is more like leather (Maybe even hides Kevlar plates). My Riddler is handy with a spanner and has made some gadgets to help him defeat Bats (I hope to show you guys my rickety jet-pack and walk-on-water pack). I see him as a gang leader, working alongside the likes of Two-face and Scarecrow. Just my slant on The Riddler, I hope to see any of your slants of other villains! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Penguin Posted September 10, 2011 Are we allowed to talk about villains as well, Mr Cobblepot? I can't allow or forbid you to talk about anything in this thread as long as it's Batman-related, can I? ) If so, do you guys dislike the way any villains are portrayed, does anyone have their own version of a villain. I'd love to hear about it. Well, I like your view of the Riddler and somewhat share it. To me, personally, the ideal Riddler is very close to BTAS one: very clever, very arrogant. To my mind Riddler should not be tough or have any special fighting skills, since clever people will try to avoid fight up till the last minute. I really liked his portrayal in recent (relatively) comics where he has a certain friendship with me and working like a private detective later, with his own goals. Quite fun. Should you be interested, I'll have a look what comic stories these are. Well, my tastes depend on the sourse of the material: i.e. inside Batman Returns world I really like Penguin, but hate it when they try to incorporate a monster-version into a "normal world". Same with all kind of series. I hate BBB Joker, but he looks good in the whole world. The same with BTAS most cillains look good there, though Penguin is horribvl in it, untill his brilliant revamp in TNBA. He became an entirely new character, much better, IMHO. Sorry for that a bit messy answer. Good day, ladies and gentlemen! ) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LandShark Posted September 10, 2011 (edited) If so, do you guys dislike the way any villains are portrayed, does anyone have their own version of a villain. I'd love to hear about it. I'm like that about The Riddler, he's normaly shown as weak and scrawney wearing that stupid skin-tight green thing . I have my own view, I prefer to think of his as a clever villain, always wanting to outsmart Batman. I'n my version he's still unlikely to win fights, but he's not pathetic or weak. He fights with his staff and uses agile fighting syle. My custom wears the green thingy, but he has more muscle and a belt with things on it, it isn't skin-tight, instead is more like leather (Maybe even hides Kevlar plates). My Riddler is handy with a spanner and has made some gadgets to help him defeat Bats (I hope to show you guys my rickety jet-pack and walk-on-water pack). I see him as a gang leader, working alongside the likes of Two-face and Scarecrow. Well, my tastes depend on the sourse of the material: i.e. inside Batman Returns world I really like Penguin, but hate it when they try to incorporate a monster-version into a "normal world". Same with all kind of series. I hate BBB Joker, but he looks good in the whole world. The same with BTAS most cillains look good there, though Penguin is horribvl in it, untill his brilliant revamp in TNBA. He became an entirely new character, much better, IMHO. Hmm... For the Riddler, the Frank Gorshin version is my favourite, he was perfect. But I do agree with Penguin that it depends what 'World'. Im my opinion, Batman: Arkham Asylum (video game) had some of the best versions of certain villians. The Scarecrow was great in it, and his scenes were really well executed. Poison Ivy and Killer Croc are also up there with my favourite versions. I also really like the Joker from the Nolan films, he worked really well in a realistic world were lots of villians would not. Edited September 10, 2011 by LandShark Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Penguin Posted September 10, 2011 Poison Ivy and Killer Croc are also up there with my favourite versions. Well, she wasn't much different than usual, was she? ) Speaking of her, she got several superb appearances in BTAS: say, Eternal youth (one of my favourite episodes), or house and Garden. ) Good day, ladies and gentlemen! ) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peanuts Posted September 10, 2011 Well, I like your view of the Riddler and somewhat share it. To me, personally, the ideal Riddler is very close to BTAS one: very clever, very arrogant. To my mind Riddler should not be tough or have any special fighting skills, since clever people will try to avoid fight up till the last minute. I really liked his portrayal in recent (relatively) comics where he has a certain friendship with me and working like a private detective later, with his own goals. Quite fun. Should you be interested, I'll have a look what comic stories these are. Yes, I also liked the BTAS one a lot (although I admittedly am not that deep into the whole Batman universe, especially not in Comics. Still I thought TAS had quite intriguing views on most of the villains. I especially enjoyed the Two-Face episodes much, depicturing him rather as a vigilante than as villain. About the Riddler, I prefer version wearing suits. The jumpsuit looks simply hilarious IMO. I think of him as a person, who just wants to prove himself smarter than other people expect him to be, and of course smarter than other people themselves, if that makes any sence. I liked the Riddler version from the AA game as well, as bodyless villain, but I don't really like his look in the upcoming AC. In general, Arkham Asylum had some greatly done villains, and some which I think weren't done well. The Joker, e.g., with his skinny look and Mark Hamill's voice, was simply perfect, while I myself didn't like Killer Croc at all. I prefered the way he looked TAS, were he wasn't that stupid and beastly, but a real criminal. I really don't mind him to be freaky, but I think he was too animalistic. One of the few TAS villains I didn't like much was the penguin's outer appearance. Maybe I haven't seen enough versions of him, but he seems to be a tough nut to crack. The version in TNBA looked pretty well though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cave Bear Posted September 10, 2011 I just recently got back into batman thanks to the brilliant arkham asylum game and the newer films, picked up a bunch of graphic novels (Hush, Dark Victory, The Dark Knight Returns, The Dark Knight Strikes Back, Long Halloween and Batman Year One. Along with the first to seasons of BTAS.) At my local forbidden planet and have finally got round to reading them all and just getting back into the complexity of comic story lines in general. But I have to ask Im pretty confused about this whole DC reboot and I heard that batman is staying relatively unchanged but what exactly is different? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpiox Posted September 10, 2011 (edited) I'm pleased to see that my views are not weird. I agree with your view on The Riddler fighting, what I meant was I would think he would fight as he does in LEGO Batman. In my world he wouldn't fight unless he needed to steal or incapacitate someone or something, an he'd probably jump around a corner and whack them over the head. I like the idea of the mind-control cane and I think it fits with Riddler's personality. My Riddler wears the jumpsuit (Thanks Peanuts for the right word! ) but I prefer it to be more of leather and with a belt and not all one piece. I'd love to see some of those mentioned comics Mr Cobblepot, but I'm not keen on the 'gay Riddler' look! I like the TDK version of Two-face best, more misguided rather than evil. It suits him better, doing what's 'fair', not just trying to get rich. You know best about the penguin of course! Edited September 10, 2011 by Scorpiox Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brainbox Posted September 10, 2011 But I have to ask Im pretty confused about this whole DC reboot and I heard that batman is staying relatively unchanged but what exactly is different? We'll know more once some more issues are released, but not that much has happened to Batman. His history has been condensed to fit into the new timeframe, so everything happened over five years. Although there have been rumours that Bruce started operating in secret as an urban legend before the first public superhero (ie. Superman now) came on the scene. As far as is known at the moment, Bruce and the gang are ever so slightly younger, with Dick and Babs in their early twenties, and Bruce in his early thirties. Babs was paralysed (so Killing Joke happened), but then she "got better" and is now Batgirl again. All the Robins are canon, they just each spent less time with Bruce in costume. To that end, the idea of Robin is now being treated more like an intern-ship, where each Robin is intended to progress to their own identity (Nightwing, Red Robin, etc.) In particular, the reboot Bat-books all take place post-Batman Inc. so that's the status quo at the moment. Which is awesome, because it's a great idea in my opinion. Until more comes to light, that's all we know. Bats is one of the least changed, so you're in luck there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Penguin Posted September 11, 2011 Yes, I also liked the BTAS one a lot (although I admittedly am not that deep into the whole Batman universe, especially not in Comics. Exactly my thoughts, put in a less messy way! BTAS Penguin had his great episodes (Birds of a feather? ), but his De Vitto-ish appearance looked out of place, IMO. The BTAS one never got any big episopdes with him (only Ultimate Thrill, I guess). However I got an entire film with me being the main villain and Irish! I really liked Mystery of Batwoman. It's not that mature as Phantasm, but still a good one! ) And you have a very good point about AC Riddler, which I totally forgot. I was so focused on hating Penguin theere, that almost forgot how I hate Riddler's look! Seriously though, I think it doesn't really suit him being a saw-type maniac, with a looks as if he has a hangover. In my opnion a clever, smart and somewhat delicate person (as Riddler should be, IMO) can't be that barbarically cruel. He would find much more cunning ways of torturing people, playing tricks with their mind and their perception of reality. I like the idea of the mind-control cane and I think it fits with Riddler's personality. My Riddler wears the jumpsuit (Thanks Peanuts for the right word! ) but I prefer it to be more of leather and with a belt and not all one piece. I'd love to see some of those mentioned comics Mr Cobblepot, but I'm not keen on the 'gay Riddler' look! How is leather-jumpsuit-wearing-guy is not gay? Just joking, of course. ) Well, that version sounds plausible, it can be made really great in some comic or animated series..... We'll know more once some more issues are released, but not that much has happened to Batman. His history has been condensed to fit into the new timeframe, so everything happened over five years. Although there have been rumours that Bruce started operating in secret as an urban legend before the first public superhero (ie. Superman now) came on the scene. How come I'm always lagging behind what concerns comic stories?! I'll need to have a read on thet in Bat-wiki, I guess. Good day, ladies and gentlemen! ) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clone OPatra Posted September 11, 2011 Funny, I just read that Arkham Asylum book. I have an edition with the full script with the author's notes, which was interesting, but overall I didn't like it very much. It wasn't really what I'm looking for when I want to read a comic, and I found the Joker's text nearly impossible to read. I didn't hate it by any means, I just didn't like it so much. I've also read some other Bat comics recently. They were Catwoman in Rome, Sirens Union, and Joker. Those I liked better, since they were more normal. I liked the 'realistic' depictions of the classic villains in Joker and the way that it sort of played off of the Joker in Dark Knight. I can't say I had any clue what was going on in Sirens Union with the Hush Batman stuff. I don't actually follow any comics at all, so a lot of that stuff was completely lost on me. Do I assume correctly that the original Robin took over as Batman since Bruce Wayne was gone because Hush was impersonating him? But Catwoman seemed to know all this and hang out with Dick Grayson as Batman? Comics get too confusing… But I still liked it, especially Riddler as a semi-detective. Catwoman in Rome at least made complete sense, even if it did take place between two other series. That was a nice pleasant comic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Penguin Posted September 11, 2011 Funny, I just read that Arkham Asylum book. I have an edition with the full script with the author's notes, which was interesting, but overall I didn't like it very much. It wasn't really what I'm looking for when I want to read a comic, and I found the Joker's text nearly impossible to read. I didn't hate it by any means, I just didn't like it so much. Well, it's a common thing with this comic. It's hard to read, it's hard to understand what is going on sometimes, but it does explain why Arkham is such a terrible place. In my opinion Arkham - is actually not just a spooky Mental Asylum (like in AA or in most animated series) but a sourse of evil, the opened wound of the whole Gotham City. A hellpit that just keeps spawning all kind of demented villains. No matter how many loonatics Batman brings there, still more will come. Comics get too confusing... Yes, that is why I personally try not to embrace all storylines, but enjoy them as separate "worlds" if I may say so. For me Batman universe is still pretty much about a lone warrior (without Superman or any supernatural heroes) with a hard teenager companion battling against all forses of hell that are Gotham and Arkham themselves. Good day, ladies and gentlemen! ) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpiox Posted September 11, 2011 And you have a very good point about AC Riddler, which I totally forgot. I was so focused on hating Penguin theere, that almost forgot how I hate Riddler's look! Seriously though, I think it doesn't really suit him being a saw-type maniac, with a looks as if he has a hangover. In my opnion a clever, smart and somewhat delicate person (as Riddler should be, IMO) can't be that barbarically cruel. He would find much more cunning ways of torturing people, playing tricks with their mind and their perception of reality. I'm dissapointed if this is how he is in AC, that is sooooo not right. The Joker is the one who tortures and is cruel, not Riddler. We are all allowed our own views but sadist Riddler is just not the same character, Riddler is not like that, he'd mind-control them or say complicated stuff untill they cry . Also, do you have links to any of these comics about Riddler working with Penguin? I'd love to read-up on the character. Thanks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peanuts Posted September 11, 2011 I'm dissapointed if this is how he is in AC, that is sooooo not right. The Joker is the one who tortures and is cruel, not Riddler. We are all allowed our own views but sadist Riddler is just not the same character, Riddler is not like that, he'd mind-control them or say complicated stuff untill they cry . Well, I myself don't actually think the mind-controlling fits Riddler that well either. He's more the kind playing them to make them do what he wants them to do, mind-control is more the way Mad Hatter would solve things. But a sadistic Riddler of course is about the wrst thing you could do to him, next to making him stupid. I disliked some of the villains in AC which weren't in AA. I think they're going over the top changing people. Penguin is the best example, but some others as well, such as Calendar Man. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Penguin Posted September 11, 2011 Also, do you have links to any of these comics about Riddler working with Penguin? I'd love to read-up on the character. I'll have a look if something can be done about that. I have some of them scanned. Well, I myself don't actually think the mind-controlling fits Riddler that well either. He's more the kind playing them to make them do what he wants them to do, mind-control is more the way Mad Hatter would solve things. But a sadistic Riddler of course is about the wrst thing you could do to him, next to making him stupid. I disliked some of the villains in AC which weren't in AA. I think they're going over the top changing people. Penguin is the best example, but some others as well, such as Calendar Man. I'll second that. Mind tricks is indeed closer to Hatter, though riddler also likes to do that from time to time like in What is reality? in BTAS. Yes, Calendar Man still remains somewhat a mystery. I guess they're heading A Long Halloween way with him...... Good day, ladies and gentlemen! ) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LandShark Posted September 12, 2011 Well, she wasn't much different than usual, was she? ) I suppose, I just think her looks and voice were especially good in Arkham Asylum. As for the DC reboot, I don't really care. Like I said before, I try not to follow any particular canonity. And it really depends which 'world'. Also, I've only recetly started watching BTAS (I've got 2 4-disk volumes on DVD). I really like it so far, I've just watched the episode Joker's Favor ( ). I think that they've been getting much more serious/darker/better as the series goes on, and in Feat of Clay , Batman was actually pretty scary! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smhJzu_a5rM Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Man Posted September 13, 2011 Riddler is not like that, he'd mind-control them or say complicated stuff untill they cry . Riddler needs to be the sophisticated one. I don't read batman in any form (or comics generally due to my OCD of having to read from the very beginning to the very end), but from what I can gather from reading about Joker and Riddler and the like and from watching the films, is Joker needs to be the mad psycho and Riddler needs to be the mind rape psycho. It's a shame David Tenant couldn't play him in the Dark Knight Rises. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sam Vimes Posted September 13, 2011 I Been a Batman Fan since the age of Five... I have grown up on The Batman Animated Series, and sadly the 60's Show..GAH. But since then, I had always like DC Comics and Batman...until recently after Watching The Dark Knight...Great film, I have started to have a major like for the Character, I own and love The Long Halloween and Dark Victory, and The Other Major Stories, when it comes to Films, I am a Fan of the Burton ones and the Nolan Films.... Overall I like Batman and most things with Batman.... Even tho I would Love to see a Batman Film with Hush and Black Mask in it...I find that concept and idea interesting... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sok117 Posted September 17, 2011 I recently had surgery, so I treated myself to both Hush and Under the Red Hood graphic novels. They were both really good but I think I liked Red Hood better. The ending to Hush was kind of disappointing. Overall I love Batman with a passion and I can't wait for the new film and new sets Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
