Europe vs US

[Faefrost]

Right now the best deals are coming from some of the large scale online merchants such as Amazon. Amazon does not have to be quite as controlled about segregating by region, and they allow someone in a low customer high cost market (Australia) to instead purchase in the high customer, lower cost market (US) and the shipping is often still less than the local pricing.

But unfortunayely that then raises the question "if I can buy direct from the US via Amazon at the lower prices, then surely they must be able to make all of the pricing the same, and it is some conspiracy to rip me off that they don't!" This is a miss perception. Individuals can score pricing by doing what are effectively person to person or low volume custom deals in this manner. But the lower price is achieved by effectively shifting the purchaser from the low volume high cost market to the high volume market. In the above case you are being treated as and benefiting from being a member of the larger US consumer market. This can be fudged for small direct purchases, but to attempt to do it in a large scale runs afoul of unfair trade practicises. TLG would be effectively selling Lego in Australia below actual costs and subsidizing it from US sales. This is the sort of activity that tends to generate WTO actions. Baring free or open trade zones, most imported products have to be locally priced to encompass their local costs to market. This is where Amazon is running into problems with some more protectionist nations, such as France.

[Legogal]

I agree with CopMike...haven't we beat this topic to death several times over? Reminds me of when a client hospital had a fire that burned up an already dead patient who had previously died three times the day of the fire...having been resuscitated three times that day. Enough.

When I lived in Alaska for 12 years, prices were much higher (for almost everything) than in the Lower 48 states....I got used to it and either spent time figuring out how to buy things more cheaply or did without an item. Ditto while living in Hawaii, Micronesia and Saudi Arabia.

It all comes down to the fact that life ain't fair.

But we are some of the chosen few who do have collections of LEGO while most of the world does not. That does not sound fair to them, does it?

Let's move on to topics that can make a difference in our lives....like how to build a round MOC. Thanks!

[MatiPasio]

Colby City Showdown

US: 50$

Poland: 250 zł

50$ = 160 zł

BAD BAD BAD! TOO BAD!

[Kalmahiczek]

Hero Factory

Jet Rocka

US: 35$

Poland: 150zł

35$ =115-120zł

No comment...

[zux]

Someone on this thread said that good prices come with a big market. I agree with this. However it isn't working for smaller countries/market. This simple because Lego is expensive because there is no market, there is no market - Lego is more expensive, it is a loop.

I want to give you an example with Technic 9398 Crawler set (I know it isn't new, can be found on good sale), which is still in stores and in local catalogue:

Local catalogue/shop price - 787.99 LT (~228 eur)

German S@H (nearest one) - 169.99 eur

German eBay - 125-130 eur

US S@H - $199.99 (~150eur)

Even with 30% sale, which is vare rare here in Lithuania and isn't applied to all the sets mostly, you could get a price of 160eur. No wonder there is no big market.

[horizon]

Agreed. With global shipping options these days Lego is 'killing'* local markets/stores.

* Note: most people will still do most buyings in the local stores, however internet shopping is getting bigger and bigger and global purchasing isn't that hard to do.

[Carousel]

My largest issue is not that Lego is subsidising the US by effectively ripping off the rest of the world, it is that the company chooses, on a stupid whim, to restrict the international shipping of its products from sites like Amazon.us and other American retailers to non-US countries. It's plain silly and I subsequently have lost a certain amount of respect for Lego's global business operations.

Edited July 19, 2013 by Carousel

[jack-bricks]

This topic just popped up and I couldn't resist to write my 2 ct.

Lego pricing within the US market is just ridicules compared to the rest of the world. I know that lots of factors are counting into it, bla bla bla. We know for example in the Yemen gas is horrible cheap but people starve to death there and merely have no life - this is a different economy and so market! To me there is no big difference between the European market and the US market at all, it is about the same. People here in Europe are just used to pay more for Lego, that is the only reason and as long as they keep buying prices WILL NOT drop.

Maybe in a few years we might see a free trade agreement between the EU and the US, then the only cost to be added are shipping costs - by then we will see where prices are heading.

BUT it is getting (in tiny tiny steps) better lately with the prices between EU and US. Though discounts from big retailers like Amazon, Walmart, Toys r Us,.... are way way better than everything we face here on EU soil.

Edited July 19, 2013 by jack-bricks

[Faefrost]

This topic just popped up and I couldn't resist to write my 2 ct.

Lego pricing within the US market is just ridicules compared to the rest of the world. I know that lots of factors are counting into it, bla bla bla. We know for example in the Yemen gas is horrible cheap but people starve to death there and merely have no life - this is a different economy and so market! To me there is no big difference between the European market and the US market at all, it is about the same. People here in Europe are just used to pay more for Lego, that is the only reason and as long as they keep buying prices WILL NOT drop.

Maybe in a few years we might see a free trade agreement between the EU and the US, then the only cost to be added are shipping costs - by then we will see where prices are heading.

BUT it is getting (in tiny tiny steps) better lately with the prices between EU and US. Though discounts from big retailers like Amazon, Walmart, Toys r Us,.... are way way better than everything we face here on EU soil.

- Fuel and energy costs in the US are less than half what they are in Europe. This has a huge trickle down effect throughout every aspect of product pricing.

- functional taxes are higher and broader in Europe.

- European labor laws and protectionist policies make labor at least twice as expensive as the US.

- real estat. The actual cost to a business for each square meter of retail, warehouse or production space is much higher in Europe. Once again this trickles through every aspect of the equation.

These forces are not unique to or limited to Lego. Europeans pay more for everything. In large part because when they pay for anything they are also subsidizing the very broad European Social Welfare traditions. Not just through the obvious VAT taxes, but by a host of hidden increases at every level of the system.

[Faefrost]

My largest issue is not that Lego is subsidising the US by effectively ripping off the rest of the world, it is that the company chooses, on a stupid whim, to restrict the international shipping of its products from sites like Amazon.us and other American retailers to non-US countries. It's plain silly and I subsequently have lost a certain amount of respect for Lego's global business operations.

My largest issue is not that Lego is subsidising the US by effectively ripping off the rest of the world, it is that the company chooses, on a stupid whim, to restrict the international shipping of its products from sites like Amazon.us and other American retailers to non-US countries. It's plain silly and I subsequently have lost a certain amount of respect for Lego's global business operations.

It's not on a whim. If Lego were to permit US companies to subsidize sales directly into Australia what would that do to actual Australian based businesses? That starts getting into what are generally viewed as unfair business practices if not illegal trade practices.

Think of it this way. The separate regional business groups within Lego are all getting the sets from the factory at the same basic cost to their budgets. A German Set costs the same as a US set as an Australian set, while it is sitting on the factory loading dock. Those regional business groups then have to add the costs of getting it to their market to come to the final retail price, and reflect back a certain % growth or profit to the headquarters in order to justify their operations and allow for future growth. As it is US and German sales do subsidize Lego prices worldwide by effectively subsidizing the factory costs and global costs. They drive down those costs on the factory loading dock, and allow for the broader range of products globally. They do this simply because of volume of sales and depth of customer base. But they cannot subsidize the regional costs. That's called dumping and nations tend to frown on it.

[Carousel]

Yet Lego allows the European Amazons to ship, without incursions, to Australia (of which I am eternally grateful for), but chooses to keep a double standard for shipping of its products from its golden child's respective Amazon (Amazon.us). I don't particularly see much logic in that.

If buying a Lego set from a US retailer - of which has already been shipped to the retailer in the US from a foreign factory - and then subsequently shipping it from the USA, across the world, and to your front door is still cheaper than going out to the local shop and buying the same set, then I highly doubt that Lego's global shipping costs of getting the set to Australia are accurately communicated through their pricing.

[Slobey]

It's all about perspective.... We're complaining because the Aussie dollar has been so strong up until recently compared to the greenback but with the Aussie dollar dropping prices become more comparable. We CAN'T have it both ways. I bet no one was saying we should pay more for Lego 4 years ago when our dollar was worth 60 US cents. Not to mention the average wage we receive in Australia compared to the USA.....

[merman]

The new Back to the Future set: $35 in the US, €50 in Holland. That is just insane...

[SheepEater]

Here is an interesting article on the subject. It treats Canada vs US but this applies to Europe, too.

Retailers say, blame the suppliers (which in our case it would be Lego)

http://thechronicleherald.ca/business/90009-why-is-stuff-cheaper-in-us-blame-suppliers-retailers-say

Edited August 4, 2013 by SheepEater

[Faefrost]

Here is an interesting article on the subject. It treats Canada vs US but this applies to Europe, too.

Retailers say, blame the suppliers (which in our case it would be Lego)

http://thechronicleh...s-retailers-say

Case in point. Read all the way through the article and the problem becomes a bit more clear. While the article opens with Canadian retailers blaming "suppliers" for what seems to be a 13-20% difference in the pricing they pay for finished goods vs the pricing that is paid by US merchants. The bottom half reveals a Canadian import tariff of 18%. Gee?

[LegoGBC]

In Israel the 8110 set (200$) costs 534$ (1899 ILS) minimum and the newer 9398 (200$ as well) costs 520$... So I consider the Europeans lucky.

This is what happens when Lego has only one importer and this importer does whatever it wants.

[Legogal]

Sounds like you need to make some good friends in places where LEGO prices are lower!!! Hint, Hint!

But with the way that international shipping rates have gone up, this may no longer be much of an option in many countries.

Do you know anyone who travels to countries where LEGO prices are lower? Good luck!

[LegoGBC]

Sounds like you need to make some good friends in places where LEGO prices are lower!!! Hint, Hint!

But with the way that international shipping rates have gone up, this may no longer be much of an option in many countries.

Do you know anyone who travels to countries where LEGO prices are lower? Good luck!

The problem isn't just the shipping,its also the taxes. For example,shipping the 8110 from Holland to IL is around 40-60$ (due to the very large & heavy box),but the taxes are extra 18% on the base price + shipping. and

if the order exceeds 300$,there are even more taxes rather than just 18%.

In this situation it has become impossible for me to buy Lego. While I do have the money,I'm not willing to pay 530$ on a single Lego set,it's crazy.

I contacted Lego and they said that they can't do anything about it.

Edited August 7, 2013 by LegoGBC

[Bricknblue]

Europe has Euro tax so that's 17% more than the USA.

Don't like it, move, or don't buy LEGO. I rather live in Europe with socialized health care, paid sick time, vacation time and on and on and on.

[Legogal]

GBC,

You have my sympathy as it must be very hard to find decent LEGO prices in Israel. It might be worth taking a trip at some point and even going to a LEGO event in another country to establish some contacts with others. While many of us can afford higher LEGO prices, we generally would not pay them. SO I understand where you are coming from and what you want.

Government taxes are a tough nut to crack...ours are going up quickly as states and cities decide they need to squeeze us for more tax, and internet sales are heading that way also, so US prices for most items will be going up soon.

I feel really sorry for the person in a distant country who cannot afford even a small LEGO set. My DIL grew up in a poor family in China and had one small brick set (not LEGO) and built that about a thousand times as a child. Now that she lives in the US, she still has a hard time accepting that Americans in general can afford so many LEGO sets. Maybe we have to encourage LEGO to make smaller, less expensive sets more easily available in other less served countries. But then they can see the latest and greatest sets, so that would still be a bummer for them. Scratch that crazy idea....

[Wodanis]

I've been debating about this topic for awhile. But how does that work with Canada? There is a Lego factory in Mexico and we aren't necessarily importing from Europe. To give a recent example: Set 60012 4x4 & Diving boat is $24.99 CDN, 19.99 US and 9.99 in the UK. Personally I find it extremely frustrating that this set like most in Canada are costing an extra $5. Especially when these sets in Canada used to cost 15-18 dollars. It gets worse with the larger sets such as the Pet shop 10218: 199.99 CDN, 149.99 US and 119 in the UK. That is a $50 mark up for a product that would take a few days to come across the border from the US if it was just about gas, tax and shipping costs.Note that the UK price has 20% vat included in the price compared to 13% tax after the price in Canada.

I used to work for a major US retail chain and they loved to describe Canada as 'a secondary market'. Meaning goods for us were an after thought compared to America. So who is to blame? How can Lego be made affordable? Canada for prescribing an 18% duty on goods coming into country, Lego for putting a higher price point because it's Canada? Or the networks of suppliers and retailers in Canada gouging Canadians?

Edited August 23, 2013 by Wodanis

[Faefrost]

I've been debating about this topic for awhile. But how does that work with Canada? There is a Lego factory in Mexico and we aren't necessarily importing from Europe. To give a recent example: Set 60012 4x4 & Diving boat is $24.99 CDN, 19.99 US and 9.99 in the UK. Personally I find it extremely frustrating that this set like most in Canada are costing an extra $5. Especially when these sets in Canada used to cost 15-18 dollars. It gets worse with the larger sets such as the Pet shop 10218: 199.99 CDN, 149.99 US and 119 in the UK. That is a $50 mark up for a product that would take a few days to come across the border from the US if it was just about gas, tax and shipping costs.Note that the UK price has 20% vat included in the price compared to 13% tax after the price in Canada.

I used to work for a major US retail chain and they loved to describe Canada as 'a secondary market'. Meaning goods for us were an after thought compared to America. So who is to blame? How can Lego be made affordable? Canada for prescribing an 18% duty on goods coming into country, Lego for putting a higher price point because it's Canada? Or the networks of suppliers and retailers in Canada gouging Canadians?

For Canada it isn't hat they are importing from Europe. It is that they are importing at all. Canada drops an 18% duty on import products that directly compete with domestic products.... And Megabloks is made in Montreal, is it not? The difference between US and Canadian pricing is largely attributable to that. With a few other minor factors. Yes because of population, customer base, etc Canada is consider a secondary market. But technically so is Nebraska. The only difference is Lego's North American branch is allowed to view Nebraska, Texas, New York and California all as one market, thus buffering Nebraskas secondary sales status. But they cannot do that across international and currency borders. The price of Lego in Canada must reflect the costs of delivering goods to Canada and not be subsidized by foreign markets. Otherwise Megabloks has a trade complaint.

[Wodanis]

I can't say I approve, I would happily scrap the duties. Megabloks is a crappy product. I would hardly support it because it is a Canadian company. Its not like NAFTA works anymore so I don't think they would get into legal troubles.