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In response to Flipz:

-Sven: yeah, I would have liked for Hoke to have had that moment, but what's done is done.

-Chauncy: you forget Hoke is a deeply skeptical guy that has had NO interaction with Chauncy beforehand. Chauncy comes off as this dark/secretive guy with an agenda, that apparently had attack at least 2 quest mates and killed a colleague. He's not someone that Hoke would fall in line with just because. The situation became worse, IMO, because Arthur acted like a Team Jacob/Team Edward fan in a Twilight fight. He just came out of nowhere, being all emotion, guns blazing. Hoke was nonthreateningly (I tried to stress that) express that if the plans went south, that he would step in. Hoke hadn't had any interaction with Guffington before either, and Hoke took him as a old dude trying desperately to have one more grand adventure, no matter the cost. He was like the Joker almost in Hoke's eyes. And, if you haven't figured out by now, Hoke IS Batman.

-Kill it all: I hope Hoke doesn't come off like that because that's not what I want for him. He's pragmatic for sure, but I don't want him to be a stone cold killer.

-SP/Lvl 1:1: I'm all ears if you have any ideas.

Thanks for the quest Zeph. I just wish it had a bit faster pacing and finished within you original projected time frame. I've always enjoyed your quest and will continue to sign-up for them.

And if Wren is within the Darkness, I want Hoke to kill her, all over again.

Edited by UsernameMDM

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I'm to blame at least a bit for how Baltarok played out, I was supposed to have a bit more of a substantial guest hosting but I was very busy at the time and didn't really have the time to drum up a relevant encounter.

Excellent quest Zepher, it was really great to see all this locations and characters revisited in such a major way. I wish I knew what was going on. :blush: I am curious about this huge threat.

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Excellent quest Zepher, it was really great to see all this locations and characters revisited in such a major way. I wish I knew what was going on. :blush: I am curious about this huge threat.

Me too!

I'll respond more in depth soon hopefully (my busy schedule continues!) but I want to thank those who stuck with it! It was a long and tough quest, with lots of missteps and weird pacing. And my story has gotten so convoluted! I think it's a fair thing to say that it's really complicated and that it'd be hard to expect anyone to know what's going on. I came up with this plan about four years ago now, and sort of had to follow it through while tweaking it along the way. Bad way to plan something, it turns out. :laugh: So yes, my story is absurdly complicated, and there's so much that I can hardly keep track and it'd be unfair to assume anyone else could. I pinky promise that before my final quest (which will be coming once I have the time to plan and run it - I want to make sure it's not like the back half of 139) I will do a recap of what everyone actually needs to know.

Thanks again to the party for hanging in there! I had a lot of fun/stress, but that was just because of my schedule, not because of the party - I've had taxing parties before, and you were all entirely fair the whole time, even if we were bashing heads about stuff. So thanks so much! :wub:

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In response to Flipz:

-Sven: yeah, I would have liked for Hoke to have had that moment, but what's done is done.

-Chauncy: you forget Hoke is a deeply skeptical guy that has had NO interaction with Chauncy beforehand. Chauncy comes off as this dark/secretive guy with an agenda, that apparently had attack at least 2 quest mates and killed a colleague. He's not someone that Hoke would fall in line with just because. The situation became worse, IMO, because Arthur acted like a Team Jacob/Team Edward fan in a Twilight fight. He just came out of nowhere, being all emotion, guns blazing. Hoke was nonthreateningly (I tried to stress that) express that if the plans went south, that he would step in. Hoke hadn't had any interaction with Guffington before either, and Hoke took him as a old dude trying desperately to have one more grand adventure, no matter the cost. He was like the Joker almost in Hoke's eyes. And, if you haven't figured out by now, Hoke IS Batman.

-Kill it all: I hope Hoke doesn't come off like that because that's not what I want for him. He's pragmatic for sure, but I don't want him to be a stone cold killer.

-SP/Lvl 1:1: I'm all ears if you have any ideas.

Thanks for the quest Zeph. I just wish it had a bit faster pacing and finished within you original projected time frame. I've always enjoyed your quest and will continue to sign-up for them.

And if Wren is within the Darkness, I want Hoke to kill her, all over again.

See, it's interesting because Hoke's suspicion towards Chauncey and Guffington sort of mirrors Arthur's distrust of Heroica. To his mind, the idea of Chauncey having a hidden agenda is no different than the many, many Heroes carrying around hidden agendas, and unlike Hoke Arthur had no prior knowledge of the events of 102 (at least not that I remember :blush: ), so to his mind here's Hoke being this brooding loner sitting on the outskirts of the party plotting against an ally for unclear reasons and clearly having ulterior motives towards the employer, so he sees his past self in Hoke and immediately goes on alert. It's this great role-reversal from Quest 53, except it's not, except it is. :tongue:

Hoke has definitely become a lot more of a "kill 'em all" sort of character over time, especially since Torc came along. He's definitely gotten a lot more vengeful, and I feel like we haven't gotten to see him choose any approach other than intimidation and violence in a long time. I honestly thought that was the intended direction you were going with him, so I'm actually surprised to hear I've misread your intentions. :blush:

Me too!

I'll respond more in depth soon hopefully (my busy schedule continues!) but I want to thank those who stuck with it! It was a long and tough quest, with lots of missteps and weird pacing. And my story has gotten so convoluted! I think it's a fair thing to say that it's really complicated and that it'd be hard to expect anyone to know what's going on. I came up with this plan about four years ago now, and sort of had to follow it through while tweaking it along the way. Bad way to plan something, it turns out. :laugh: So yes, my story is absurdly complicated, and there's so much that I can hardly keep track and it'd be unfair to assume anyone else could. I pinky promise that before my final quest (which will be coming once I have the time to plan and run it - I want to make sure it's not like the back half of 139) I will do a recap of what everyone actually needs to know.

Thanks again to the party for hanging in there! I had a lot of fun/stress, but that was just because of my schedule, not because of the party - I've had taxing parties before, and you were all entirely fair the whole time, even if we were bashing heads about stuff. So thanks so much! :wub:

Man, I can't even begin to remember how many Ace Assassin Quest concepts I've drawn up, partially outlined, and then thrown out because something else in-game made the concept non-viable. :laugh: Kudos for actually sticking to your overall arc plans, even if we need a textbook to keep track. (Though I do hear we have a wiki to help with some of that... :innocent: )

Edited by Flipz

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Quest 136

Wow. The first word that comes to my mind for this quest is Wow. The second is Epic; the last is Long. It's crazy to think that we started this quest ten months ago. This was certainly the longest quest I have participated in. It was a wild ride. There's a lot to cover for this quest, so I'll do the best I can.

First, the pictures and sets were absolutely gorgeous. The forest was so filled with life and vibrancy. Oswain's castle was scary and had a great feel. The marketplace felt hectic and cramped. The pictures were always fun to look at and I always became excited when we went to a new location because I would get to see a new awe-inspiring set.

The battles were also intense. They were fun to particpate in and the enemies were well thought out and different. And it felt like there were a lot of battles. The loot was great and is certainly going to be useful for Kiray moving forward. Those spiked pauldrons! :wub: Kiray gained four full levels, which honestly I didn't expect but I'm glad it happened.

I loved the amount of characters and how much thought you put into them. Everyone had their own voice and was distinct; there may have been one to three too many named characters as there were times I struggled to keep faces with names, etc.

Some criticism of course: the pacing. I think we're all at fault there, especially in this back end of the quest. I think what really killed the pacing was the month long side quest in the PMs. That was honestly the most brutal part. I think we could have been done with this quest a month earlier if we worked harder to keep up the pace. And because this pacing felt long, there was a lot that I forgot. Honestly, I'm still not sure how much of this quest I retained because it just was long. At some points, I actually forgot why the Heroes were tasked with this job because I forgot our objective because it felt very confusing. The beginning was engaging but the last part became difficult to get through. Add that onto all of the stuff we had to keep track of just because of how large this quest was, it just became a slog at points.

Party

Miderun- Kiray finally quested with her. It was great questing with her since I've only hosted Miderun. She feels rich and strong. I like her a lot. Of course at the last part of the quest I started feeling like I was losing a grasp on Miderun due to pacing, etc.

Germ- I started to like Germ more as this quest went on, but no offense, Germ isn't the first person Kiray would like to quest with again.

Bobby- Pretty much the same thing I said for Miderun.

Mhinak- Mhinak is great. I really like him.

Na'im- Probably my favorite person on this quest. You do a great job with Na'im and I love the way he talks and how much thought you put into him. I really hope to quest with you again.

Kiray- I really like where I'm taking her. I don't think she grew as much as I hoped on this quest, but that's on me.

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Hoke has definitely become a lot more of a "kill 'em all" sort of character over time, especially since Torc came along. He's definitely gotten a lot more vengeful, and I feel like we haven't gotten to see him choose any approach other than intimidation and violence in a long time. I honestly thought that was the intended direction you were going with him, so I'm actually surprised to hear I've misread your intentions. :blush:

Well that might not be my intention, but how Hoke is played may well be just as you see it. Maybe all of those whispers are finally getting to him. That or I'm just being impatient and not role-playing very well. Hoke has always been about business is business, but he is less idealistic than when he started out. He has embraced his mercenary role. Maybe the large dragon and Zoot's Plaything have exacerbated that...

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Quest #136

I absolutely enjoyed this quest and I am thankful I got to participate in this one! Though I am still quite new to the community, this has been my favorite quest thus far. It was a long quest but all the events made it enjoyable.

The pictures were great and I absolutely enjoyed looking at all the different scenes mainly because it helped visualize how intense the scenes were. When I was facing the Guardians, Mhinak had the mindset to keep his cool because at any second, he could be crushed by Zeulord with ease.

The battles and loot were great, no complaints whatsoever.

The NPCs were interesting, for the most part. Some characters whose names did not stick to me where the names of the prison guards. Latte Oswain was pretty interesting to encounter during the quest and interacting with him was fun, same goes with the old boat master. :laugh:

The only things that bothered me on this quest was where it seemed like there would be no updates in a few days, like the last one was six days before the final update. I understand that you are busy in real life too but sometimes I was so interested with events that I wanted to see what happened next. Even if it was a small little notification saying an update will be up in a few days would have been great. Also, I was a bit confused as to why the quests happened over PM. That was around the time when I was just very inactive so I might not have caught onto the point of it. That would be my fault, not yours.

Party

Na'im - I enjoy questing with him and this one was very interesting to see how he interacted with everyone particularly because he is a Fenarian and there was a lot of friction between them, Star Elves, and the Guardians. He also saved Mhinak's skin a few times so yeah, I would definitely quest with him again.

Germ - He was certainly an interesting character during this quest. I enjoyed seeing how he changed throughout the quest and some of the things he said was hilarious! I would quest with him again.

Bobby - Sometimes I found it annoying with how he talked but at times, I did get a good chuckle with how he talked, especially to Latte Oswain. I know it is part of his persona but I did wonder at times if he said some cheesey lines like "cat's pajamas" or something like a Greaser. That would be hilarious! Overall, I enjoyed questing with him and would quest with him again.

Miderun - On occasion her and Mhinak clashed heads but that is to be expected. Mhinak does look up to Miderun as a leader even though some things he does not agree with. I would definitely like to quest with Miderun again.

Kiray - Almost the same thing as Miderun but Mhinak agrees with Kiray's take on things a bit more, like with talking first rather than attacking first. I think she is a pretty interesting character and I would gladly want her to watch my back.

Mhinak - To be honest, I do not know what to really say. I felt like he was all over the place when it came to opinions. He also felt alienated particularly because of how he wanted to help the Guardians. It surprised me that I was the only one who wanted to help them. I think this will be his last quest because I have had this other idea for a character (Last character, I swear! :grin:). Don't get me wrong, I enjoy him but it is mostly aesthetically. I screwed up with his development. I will miss playing as him and having the memories of his quests.

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Alright, I'll post some thoughts on 139 now. I'll probably have more to say as I think about it and after you post, Zepher. But here it goes.

For the most part, I enjoyed it quite a bit. I concur with Stickfig that it really felt like five different quests all wrapped in one, but I understand the reasons for running it as a single quest. I think that had a lot to do with the slowdown at the end, but I'll start with some positives.

First, I think the quest's best part was seeing familiar NPCs and locations and the aftermath of decisions made on past quests. Hybros had never been to Dastan, but obviously as a host of the trilogy I'm familiar with the characters and the story. And while he had been to Xu, the mission didn't have much to do with what happened on Quest #50. Still, the interactions with past characters involving all PCs was a treat to watch. Arthur was familiar with most of the Dastan characters and of course had been there for the trilogy way back when. Hoke knew Ella and maybe a few others, and Purpearl knew Chauncey. Hybros was the only one from the East quest that knew Guffington and co. already so it was an interesting dynamic that he knew so few of the NPCs along the way. More on that later. The West group was equally interesting in terms of familiarity with NPCs and stories. I want to emphasize how awesome it was seeing the consequences of previous quest choices. In Dastan, the war was over but a new threat loomed. Xu was an interesting take on a more eastern-themed game, and while the effects of the Ji Pei story arc were only mentioned and not seen, it emphasized how secluded and insulated from politics/worldly events the mountain was. It was also cool to see Haddon and Dyric's home city, I loved the character development there. Baltarok as well.

Another point I want to make is the NPC writing. Zepher, you are a master of this and NPCs react in ways that really make sense for their character rather than what is convenient for game mechanics and advancing the plot. You'll resort to that when your PCs are clearly stuck, but it'll still be subtle. I liked most of the "foreign" NPCs that we met along the way. Bellerai was pretty stubborn but I guess even dragons can't escape the traits of old age. It was neat that the one monk fro Xu didn't talk. Ella was probably the best-played NPC because of her being familiar but dealing with new problems in a new role - great character development. Most of the Etheria NPCs were hard to read but I enjoyed Iceborn for his terse and blunt responses. I agree with Flipz in that some of the NPCs in Guffington's group fell flat. Daneeka felt out of place most of the time and rather than helping the party all he seemed good at was getting injured. :tongue: Felix was rather quiet but in-character, same with U'Or. Chauncey was decent and I enjoyed his interaction with Purpearl - other than that he seemed more of the lead NPC role than Guffington himself. My biggest complaint about NPCs is that Gerald felt pretty absent throughout. Besides the first bit on the ship with the gambling, we didn't get to know him any better on the quest and he didn't have much to say about the mission. Even in Etheria he left most of the explaining to Chauncey and Hope. For an NPC that was truly interesting in the previous two Guffy quests, and one that we'll probably never get to see again, I was really disappointed that he had so little to say or do before his death. This was worsened by the fact that his constituents felt like they were just along for the ride and stood by while the heroes did all the heavy lifting while not really knowing the purpose of doing so. It would have been nice to see some emotional reactions after Guffy's death, too.

Here's where I'll transition to the overall plot. I'll say that it's clear you've been planning the story for a long time now, and for a while during the quest it really felt like things were reaching a climax. But due to a number of factors things actually ended up feeling quite anticlimactic and more confusing than clarified. One reason is that the quest was never fully explained to the heroes until the very end (i.e. Passion's full explanation posted a few days ago). The motives of Guffington and co. were never sufficiently explained, and the bits and parts we did get were somewhat lost along the way. I understand that everything couldn't all be revealed at once, but the slow trickle of information didn't make sense for the NPCs, either. The most I (or rather, Hybros) got out of it was that Guffington and cohorts believed a danger was coming, for some really vague reason that happened mostly off-screen in previous quests. I don't think anyone, Hybros included, understood the motives for the quest and were kind of just along for the ride. The battles and interactions with familiar NPCs gave the PCs more purpose, but ultimately in terms of advancing the story I felt like the PCs were used a little bit. With this in mind I certainly don't blame Hoke for opposing Guffington and actually the conflict on the ship from Dastan to Xu made for the roleplaying highlight on the East quest. I also think part of the reason why Hybros fell flat on this quest was because his choices of reacting to things were limited. I decided somewhere along the way that the best way to play him without disrupting the flow of the quest was to submit to Guffington's requests and just obey the mission, mostly unquestioningly. This made the most sense to me at the time because Hybros trusted Guffington with his past experience and Guffy's help with finding the imps. But it really just made for a boring and predictable character. Could I have taken a different direction? Maybe, but the lack of input from the Guffy NPCs I mentioned before didn't make it easier. The length of the quest and pacing also made me want to focus on completing the tasks in a timely manner rather than trying to invest in roleplaying.

So yeah, the pacing killed the quest, especially at the end. I completely understand a busy schedule but I'm sure you know how we the questees feel after all that. :blush: I don't think I need to say more about this but it was definitely draining, which is disappointing because i was looking forward to Etheria and the climax of the story.

So, PCs. I agree with Flipz that the West party was much more interesting, but I disagree that the East party fell completely flat. Here's a quick rundown of my thoughts.

Guts/Scuba: A good leader as always. Blunt, to the point, and determined to complete the mission. The arguments with Zane were interesting to watch, but I could sense that Zepher was getting a little frustrated at Guts' repeated refusal at offers to compromise. Sometimes you do have to let it go in the interest of not derailing the quest. It would have really sucked if the East group got to Etheria to hear that the West group had failed. That being said Guts was a good prescence as the other PC from past Guffy quests. I wish Doc and Pandora were still around for this quest, but oh well. I was also a little disappointed to see you disappear during the last battle.

Arthur/Flipz: I guess Mary Sue would be a good to describe him in this quest, but honestly it's not much of a complaint. Arthur was consistent and Miirym's development was fantastic. You were active throughout and were a big help in strategizing. Arthur seemed omnipresent in the NPC interactions but they made sense. He also fit in well with Guffington and co. As for his and Hybros' interactions, I don't think your criticism is 100% true. Yes I think I was tired from length and pacing and was focused on completing the quest, but there were times where the two had good interactions in Dastan and Xu. And actually, Hybros had been more suspicious/wary of Arthur before the quest. This was really the first time they got to know each other.

Matthias/Stickfig: I've really enjoyed Matthias' character since he joined the game, and I think he's earned respect from Hybros. He's stout and unwavering in his beliefs but knows when to keep it to himself. It was cool having a PC that really opposed everything that was going on, but he never took the spotlight or derailed the quest. You felt present throughout and were great to have along. It'll be interesting to see where this immortality thing will lead him. I remember you saying a long time ago that Matthias was old for a gnome, so I imagine the extended life will have quite the effect on his outlook. Or maybe not, which would also be cool.

Purpearl/PPJB: I was also pretty disappointed in your lack of activity throughout the quest. :sad: I was looking forward to interacting with Purpearl but like Flipz said she/you seemed unresponsive to any advances made by other PCs. You also went completely MIA for last month and a half without telling anyone. What really drove me nuts was when Zepher was trying to speed things along for the conclusion and Purpearl was still talking to the Forge Master. It's not really fair to leave your QM and fellow players hanging like that and I hope you consider this for your next quest. I will say that her talks with Chauncey were captivating, but that's about the only time I can recall when she made a big impact.

Hoke/MDM: Like I said before, I thought his choice to question Guffy was appropriate. Hoke has maintained his quiet but tough persona since joining, and it shows. Sometimes I wish you/he would be a little more vocal during quests. Especially with Torc, who doesn't talk at all apparently. It might be cool to develop her into a foil for Hoke but right now she seems to mostly be a tag-along. You were also active all the way through so well done on that.

Dyric/Legonator: I don't have much to say because we never got the chance to interact much on this quest, but Dyric is a great character. He's quiet but also righteous, and is always trying to do what he thinks is the best thing. Glad to have quested with you again.

I'll definitely have more to say later. I really need to start keeping notes along the way rather than writing these stream-of-consciousness responses to quests, and then running out of time to complete my thoughs. I think I said the exact same thing after 129 too. But thank you for the quest Zepher! :sweet:

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Quest 136

I do not have to much to say in general. But I will repeat some of what said in PM with PJB. Like how I thought the quest was taking a while, but I do not want to be that guy bitch'in about it at the same time. You know it is taking a while when other people are making comments in general discussion thread.

Second thing was the chess mini-game I do not think a two player game works out for a multi player game and personal think it took me out of game a little.

The next thing was the PM side quest. That is when the whole quest slowed down for me. I get the feeling Goliath & me got the tacked on part of PM quest of coarse I can be wrong about that. (I guess if that part is ever put out for everyone else to see.) The second thing about the PM quest was the party size, it was to small. As Goliath said he was not there for the most part (I guess he got sick during that part). And the last thing with that PM quest was it did not seemed to get any direction with it except to not ring the (alarm) Bell. Even during the last battle I did not get any hint if their was some hidden condition with the fight to make it easier in the end. Now some of this could be on my end, like I am not the best at "making deals". (Heck I do not think I could talk my way into a depromotion if I wanted to. The best thing to compare it with is that assassin droid from the "Knight's of the Old Republic" computer game. I remember one part where he was talking to the "Sand People" and ask you if he should blast them now.)

Now this is more for all the Quest Masters out their. The shops seemed to have item(s) that no one could buy because of the price is go high. (Maybe if the party pooled the gold together someone could get it. But I probably would not do that in general.) So I ask. What is the point of having said high price item(s)?

For the other Quest Mates -

Miderun - I /Germ is not to sure to make of her. I guess their is some similarities to them and Germ knows it.

Mhinak & Na'im - Germ has not changed his mind about those two since the last time. But Germ gets the feeling that Mhinak might wants to move on (from Heroics).

Kiray & Bobby - I get I could of talked to the wall and get the same results. Now I get you two could of been busy with other stuff (like hosting other Quest). It is something to keep in mind.

Germ - I noticed he goes off a lot on his own, I believed it happened in #104 too. I am glad other people are enjoying the so called anti-hero. I think, I need to show other ways to point out how much of a jerk he could be. (If I am going to keep using him long term.)

P.S. Plus I do not think it helped that I had trouble with the site during the quest for that one week. And for the record one of my post got deleted during that time for whatever reason. But it was not that important so I just let it go. (I was just making a comment on the lake & city when we first got their.)

Edited by samuraiturtle

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First I should probably say congratulations! Making your very first hosted quest so grand in scope and scale must have been a momentous undertaking and I'm very impressed that you managed to get us all the way through to the conclusion

I think all that could be said about the pacing and timing has already been said, so I feel no need to repeat it, except that it really did drag the mood towards the end of the quest

Battles

The battles looked very challenging to me (but most of them do in this game to me-I'm not much good at strategy! :grin: ), and I think we would have been in a lot of trouble if we didn’t have the minds of two of the most experienced players in the game behind us, so I think in actuality that they were fairly well balanced.

Loot

I'm a sucker for well-designed and unique loot, and there was a lot to love on this quest-I think my favourites were the custom armour sets in the Fenarian marketplace and Orein's book of demons (I think that is a great way of making a minion character by the way, since it is able to grow with the hero, in a similar way to a Dragoon's dragon!). Overall I am very pleased with what I got on this quest! :devil: .

The story

I'll echo what Goliath and KOTZ said…we did seem to get a little too far from the main story in places, and I will also add that some side plots did not really seem explored, given the length of the quest, for example the Creeds master plan and the whole Wyeth and Zoot thing (Or maybe that’s being saved for a sequel quest? :look: ), and I have a few what if questions as well:

  • If we delivered ourselves over to Oswain in the krimwood, and went straight to the capitol, what would have happened?
  • And if quest 135 hadn't failed, would we have met the party at some point?

The sets

Goliath and KOTZ stole the words right out of my mouth. The sets were all incredible and the photography was even better! I can't remember one time when I was disappointed with the sets in the entire quest! :wub:

The PCs

Miderun: I really do like Miderun. She is one of the few Orcish characters we have around Heroica, which makes her quite unique and we definitely need more! I was surprised at how much she and Na'im agreed upon and Na'im would certainly not mind questing with her again.

Mihnak: I like that you didn’t have Mihnak back down from his pro-star elf viewpoints, which seemed to be in contrast to most of the party-that was great character development for Mihnak. I will be sad to see Mihnak go, but I look forward to seeing what else you come up with: Any clues?

Germ: Germ is as ever a wildcard and immensely funny to read-I can never predict what he will do next, or how he will react to a situation. That said, I would be careful not to take your actions too far, as shown in the Penitentiary, as it can have bad consequences for the party! But Germ is one of the few heroes Na'im would call a friend, and he would not mind questing with Germ again at all.

Bobby: Bobby is quite hilarious to read, with all his slang and I like how you make sure to keep his voice consistent, which must make him a pain too write! That said, I would like to see a bit more development on where his new role as champion of Azzot takes him.

Kiray: As the most-experienced person on the quest, Kiray adopted more of an advisory and background role trying her best to keep the party united, and it was nice to see this different side of Kiray's character, that I don't think we've seen beofre. Her interactions with Germ were nice as well.

Naim: I really hope I haven't made Na'im too complicated with his whole new 'brotherhood of the red angel thing'. I have tried my best for a slow introduction to Na'ims past in the brotherhood, but with this quest being the last time Na'im may be in Fenario for a long time, I felt it was too good an opportunity to miss-but now I am cursing myself for bringing in this new aspect of Na'ims character too quickly! I do plan to make less of a big deal of this side of his character for the next few quests, but it will have a big impact on his AC decision (200 gold to anyone who can guess what that Is :tongue: )

Party

Miderun- Kiray finally quested with her. It was great questing with her since I've only hosted Miderun. She feels rich and strong. I like her a lot. Of course at the last part of the quest I started feeling like I was losing a grasp on Miderun due to pacing, etc.

Germ- I started to like Germ more as this quest went on, but no offense, Germ isn't the first person Kiray would like to quest with again.

Bobby- Pretty much the same thing I said for Miderun.

Mhinak- Mhinak is great. I really like him.

Na'im- Probably my favorite person on this quest. You do a great job with Na'im and I love the way he talks and how much thought you put into him. I really hope to quest with you again.

Kiray- I really like where I'm taking her. I don't think she grew as much as I hoped on this quest, but that's on me.

I'm glad other people like Na'im-though I won't deny that a lot of work goes into writing his every response! I really hate to leave someone’s comment or remark hanging, and that's why I try to reply to everything, which probaly makes all of my most posts look like walls of texts, but hey its an rpg, and whats an rpg without roleplaying!

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Naim: I really hope I haven't made Na'im too complicated with his whole new 'brotherhood of the red angel thing'. I have tried my best for a slow introduction to Na'ims past in the brotherhood, but with this quest being the last time Na'im may be in Fenario for a long time, I felt it was too good an opportunity to miss-but now I am cursing myself for bringing in this new aspect of Na'ims character too quickly! I do plan to make less of a big deal of this side of his character for the next few quests, but it will have a big impact on his AC decision (200 gold to anyone who can guess what that Is :tongue: )

Hmm...maybe Shaman? :poke:

Naim has definitely been one of the more interesting characters of the second most recent "generation". For my money, the Red Angel business wasn't too out of place at all, and added some interesting depth to his attitude. Definitely a PC I'll be keeping an eye on, for sure. :thumbup:

Edited by Flipz

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Hmm...maybe Shaman? :poke:

Naim has definitely been one of the more interesting characters of the second most recent "generation". For my money, the Red Angel business wasn't too out of place at all, and added some interesting depth to his attitude. Definitely a PC I'll be keeping an eye on, for sure. :thumbup:

Definitly not! :tongue:

Thanks for the support Flipz-I just have to work out where to take his development from here now!

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So, 139. Lots of thoughts, I'll try to be succinct with them so that I don't spend all afternoon writing this:

I agree with the plot being bumpy. I was originally just going to have it as a plan to revive Passion, without all the visions and without Chauncey explaining that they were concerned that something was coming. But the more I thought about it, the more I realized that heroes would be resistant to that, and it'd be a lame way for Guffington to go out - it had to at least indicate what was coming. But I added that in last minute, and it served to complicate the quest rather than clarify it, and it also made the quest a long preamble to my final quest, which I learned with 72 is a BAD IDEA. And yet I did it again. So I'm sorry about that. It's bad story telling to not give a strong climax to this story, and I imagine it feels not too satisfying for the players, even if they know that there will be an exciting climax in the future. So over-all, I agree, this was a confused quest, and the over-arching plot didn't quite work out the way I wanted it to. But that's totally on me. I missed a few beats because I was so busy and made some things rushed and some things slow, so that will hopefully not happen again.

I think it'll be easiest to just go place by place and assess them. I will address two things in the comments, however: a) Stickfig, you make a good point, I probably should have divided it into three quests. Thank you. b) Flipz, I pretty purposely had the Guffington NPCs fade into the background. Often times I've felt that having too many vocal NPCs have taken away from the heroes getting to be front and center. I will work harder to find a balance though.

Dastan

I was very happy to return to Dastan one last time and give those characters a proper send off. I apologize to MDM, I know I have a history of having NPCs kill enemy NPCs, and probably Hoke should have had a chance to do that. But Phil is gone now (sorry Phil, we'll miss you!) so I thought I owed it to him to get a final kill someone who openly opposed his rule, claiming him to be weak. But this is a problem I've had for a long time. As for Tarn, I was originally going to have him away because of the danger to him as a foreigner (I don't like writing for him, I feel like he has such a good personality and it's tough for me to parrot). BUT again, when I thought about it, that seemed illogical (he'd never abandon Ella) and also unfair.

The dragons were fun to bring back a lot of characters for. There have been a lot of cool dragons in this game, and they feel diverse while all maintaining their essential "dragon-ness". So I was very happy to bring back a huge number of them that other QMs have introduced. I think the dragons are going to play a pretty major role in the future, and I really do like all of them. I think Bellerai was a bit old school, but I imagine that's not all that strange for dragons, especially when they live that long.

I think I did the best job also here of having the NPCs you were traveling with really be present the correct amount.

Xu

I am over all happy with how this section went. It was too long - I had a certain "meditation score" you had to reach before you actually could access the vault, and I realized it was rather high, but only when you were like 3/5ths of the way to getting it, and the system was designed to be slow at first, and then faster as you picked up the skill. I'll publish it if anyone's interested... I have it sitting around on a post it somewhere (hope I didn't lose it). I thought all the characters did well - no one really surprised me - Arthur tried to do everything, Hybros used some contemplation but didn't ignore the ability to fight, and Hoke just trained day in and day out. :laugh: Purpearl and Chuancey did have a nice interaction too!

I agree that the Xu characters didn't shine as much. It was supposed to feel sleepy and small - I should have had a few more characters and locations to make it more dynamic (I originally was going to) but I couldn't design any more characters I felt properly belonged in Xu, so I cut it down.

The fight on the airship afterwards, with Hoke and Arthur, seemed totally natural to me. As I've stated in previous quests, the heroes have changed their world perspective a lot over the course of the game. They're less trusting, and I think Hoke in particular has veered this way (he was never truly won over to this quest, which didn't bother me at all because you played it well - didn't hold things up, but kept in character the whole time). Arthur too was very in character. A good confrontation!

High Kingdoms

Pirates! I liked including Captain Lane and Barkley. They'll end up coming back again, even though I do admit they were a little underused and underdeveloped in this quest.

Haddon was rather rushed. There was a side-quest you could have completed, but I'd say it would have still felt a bit rushed. Mostly the issue was there wasn't a ton to do it, like story-wise. I didn't want to give Haddon a new problem - its peace had been hard won, and unlike Dastan, which is an enormous and turbulent empire, Haddon's trouble was pretty small and then vanquished. I guess I could have included a few more events, but I didn't want to slow down the quest, and only Dyric really had any stake in revisiting the place.

As for Duplovia, I had a good time visiting it and playing a bit with what an ancient city looked like. I read both previous Duplovia quests in preparation, but still was afraid of screwing up any storylines so I steered away from those events mostly. I agree it was a bit quick, but there was a lot of ground to cover! Guts of course decimated the battle there, which may have led to it's quicker feel. Poor Giant Guard.

As for the Fire Lizard, I think they played out well, and at a good pace. I didn't want to paint David as totally recovered, but I never viewed him as a villain either, so I tried to take him on a natural path. If anything I think the execution of Raguel will lead him to switch maybe too far to hating Paladins and the other kingdoms, even if he grows tolerant of Orcs. I thought that everyone had nice interactions here. They had all been at the battle of the Augustus Bridge, but none of them on the Kingdom's side, and I think everyone played it super well.

Baltarok

Like Pie said, I thought he'd involve a bit more business, but he didn't. Which is fine, he was busy, but that might contribute a little bit to the pacing of this section. Obviously, the other factor was Zane v. Guts. I've had a lot of long debates with myself about what I should have done, and at the end of the day, though it slowed the quest down, I'm happy I stuck to my guns. As I've said elsewhere, I think it was the right choice to have Guts not be able to just kill him outright, since thats generally Guts' solution, and it was interesting to see how the character took a foe he couldn't do that with. Not well, it turned out. Dyric and Matthias also had pretty open disdain for Zane - Dyric because of the past, and Matthias because Zane's sort of an megablocks and showboaty character and I can't imagine Matthias liking either of them. I'm sad I didn't get a chance to develop the new Court Members as much, because they would have come with you and fought alongside you in that final battle if you'd worked with Zane, but I may (MAY) throw in an extra quest for when they're in Eubric so that they get a small introduction as well. That's a big maybe.

Etheria

I don't think anyone is wrong in saying that the quest majorly fell apart here. It was pacing, it was poorly communicated side-quests, and then my desire to make sure we wrapped it up and stealing you away from the side quests. Maybe there's more to be said, but I think at this point so much time was passing that I got confused in my story telling, and you all got confused by the gaps and repeated beats I was giving. Like I said, I think that here more than anywhere else, the idea to include the visions really came to bite me in the megablocks. If it'd just been "bring Passion back" then it'd be a cleaner story. For example, Regret absolutely recalls what happened to their island, so he just didn't tell you until you brought back Passion... it's a muddled beat, and only one example of me shooting myself in the foot. Even Chauncey and Guffington seem weaker for it, I agree - they know there's something bad, but not what, but want back Passion? It's messy and jumps through a lot of hoops of logic when it could have been a lot cleaner.

I'll do character responses later. I think that everyone shone - I picked one of my favorite parties ever, so this was a blast in that perspective, save for when my posting got slow and things got a bit confused. :thumbup:

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As for the Fire Lizard, I think they played out well, and at a good pace. I didn't want to paint David as totally recovered, but I never viewed him as a villain either, so I tried to take him on a natural path. If anything I think the execution of Raguel will lead him to switch maybe too far to hating Paladins and the other kingdoms, even if he grows tolerant of Orcs. I thought that everyone had nice interactions here. They had all been at the battle of the Augustus Bridge, but none of them on the Kingdom's side, and I think everyone played it super well.

I just want to point out these interactions were some of the most spectacularly awkward in all of Heroica, and I thought it was fantastic. :laugh:

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Reposting here for easier reference and further commentary:

I'm planning on taking a swing at QMing. But I'm not keen on running battles. Doing if from an iPad (my main screen) seems to be a little complex. Are there others who'd just do the battles bits and co-QM?

Perhaps this belongs in the QM lounge but I'm wondering what the list of tasks for QMing is.

-generate plot idea

-generate battle points / enemy ideas

-build sets (at least for intro, first encounter)

-edit photos (optional)

-get quest approval

-recruit heroes

Then

-specify enemies/battles (at least for first encounter)

-converse using NPCs, QM exposition

-run battles, correct errors, describe and converse

-describe encounters, converse and prompt decision making

-photograph and specify encounters as needed

Anything else?

-Come up with quest idea

-Sit on quest idea

-Detail quest idea

-Postpone quest idea

-Come up with a completely different quest idea

-Quest

-Use original quest idea a year or two later

Pie's idea seems like how it actually happens, to be honest. :tongue: That said, I do have my own process:

1. Come up with an idea. Sometimes it's a character, sometimes a plot, sometimes a moment or story beat, but whatever it is, it needs to be specific.

2. Come up with more ideas. While some QMs are more than capable of spinning a single idea into an entire Quest, I personally learned on 118 that one or two core concepts were not enough material on their own for me to weave together a satisfying narrative, especially when said concept(s) are somewhat vague.

3. Research. Of the time I've spent on my next two Quests, a good third of it or more has been spent researching what has and hasn't been established about the characters and locations I'm planning to use. This research will usually generate at least a few ideas that can supplement the ones you're already using, which is important for the next step. This is an ongoing process, one that can end up altering things later down the line as game elements are introduced and altered.

4. Assemble. Basically, I plonk down all my ideas, sit down, and figure out where and how they'll connect. "Okay, I want Character X in Location Y. How do I accomplish that...maybe I can put Motivation Z there? Yeah, that makes sense, since Quest AB said that Character C was last seen in Location D, and I already have plans to emphasize the connection between Group E there and Organization F in Location Y. Perfect, let's write that down."

...okay, usually I use WAY more unreadable shorthand than that. :laugh: But yeah, usually it consists of me connecting two or three ideas in little chunks, and then tying those chunks together in turn until everything fits.

5. Initial Approval. This is usually when I PM Sandy and ask if my idea will work or if I'm stepping on his toes/creating an idea that just completely won't work. Better to do this now than later after doing all the work on the outline.

6. Outline. I have a specific format that I use that helps me a LOT in keeping my thought process intact even weeks and months later:

Segment Title (major notes):

  • Story Beat Name (Encounter type [usually RP or Battle])
    • Brief explanation of situation
    • Enemies: -or- Puzzle: -or- Obstacles:
    • Function 1 within Quest design
    • Function 2 within Quest design

    [*]Segment Title (Encounter type)

    • Brief explanation of situationn
    • Enemies: -or- Puzzle: -or- Obstacles:
    • Function 1 within Quest design
    • Function 2 within Quest design
    • NOTE: Special notes (i.e. whether the beat is core or optional, if it can get locked out by another beat, etc.)

I find that this format helps me remember not only what I'm planning, but why I made that specific choice. Once I finish, I'll usually go through it with a player's eye and try to find moments where I'd feel controlled or cheated, or otherwise unhappy with the Quest.

7. Setbuilding. Or in my case, begging people to help me with sets (:blush:). This is an ongoing process that can change other, previously-established things; if I'm figbarfing an NPC and a better design with a different character than intended pops up, I may alter other elements to use this new design and attitude instead.

8. Alteration. Once I have some idea of what I want, I'll start making the rounds of asking other QMs for permission and/or advice on using their characters, especially if I've heard their own Quests will be operating in the same area. Having learned from the insanity of the late-stage rewrites of 104, I now tend to do this before launching the Quest. :blush: This is also another good opportunity for a "would I as a player like this?" pass.

9. Population. I've usually figured out where my battles will be in the Quest as early as the initial outline, as well as a general idea of what enemies will show up and the general sort of loot I want them to drop; now is when I start assigning specifics. I don't do specific stats, though, that's saved for post-launch.

10. Pitch & Post. This is self-explanatory; I send Sandy my final pitch, then wait for a post and the sign-ups.

11. Customization. Once I see who's signing up, I do another pass to try and sprinkle in elements that will resonate strongly with the characters I'm planning to pick; I'll also start assigning specific stats for some of the earlier battles.

12. Launch. This is probably the least fun parts; gathering everyone's stat blocks and then fixing/reformatting them into usability. Ick. :tongue: Once that's done, I'll write up the opening, post, and start running the Quest.

13. First Battle. The first battle in any of my Quests is a very important one; it's my opportunity to watch the players and see how this party works together both mechanically and socially. It's very easy to see in most first battles who's going to hit hardest, who's going to go down, who's going to be overshadowed, what the holes are in party composition, what the holes are in individual PC loadouts, how hard the party normally hits, how they prioritize enemies, etc. etc. etc. I alter a LOT of details based on how the first battle goes, as 141 showed pretty clearly.

14. Adjustment. As stated, once the first battle's done, I'll go through and make a bunch more alterations to account for the specific situation in the party, and from there continue to tweak as necessary.

15. Run. And hopefully survive, but usually not. :poke:

Anyway, that's just how I do it, not everyone's going to have success doing it my way, obviously. :blush:

Something I forgot to mention about loot generation: one thing I like to do is put myself in the shoes of various other Heroes and think "now, if I were this class, what would I want to have available to me?", and then tweak for balance and drop that. Because of my overall "you want it, you beat it first" philosophy of drops, this often helps me whip up throwaway mooks and minions that would otherwise take a lot more work to think up. :wink:

I'll also go through my own inventory and try to find things that either other people have asked to buy off of me, or that I myself have found useful, and then drop them; I think Zepher mentioned as far back as the first Guffington Quest that he'd started to do that a little bit with his own character's loot, and it's something that's stuck with me ever since then. And again, with a "want it, beat it" philosophy, this can lead to even more interesting encounters. :classic:

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May I start this off with a thanks for hosting us, Palathadric!

The good:

The battles were definately well-balanced, but maybe I only thought that because of my luck. I barely needed the cape.

You putting up with Cree doing whatever he wanted whenever he wanted. Sorry about that, by the way.

The builds were nice.

The NPCs were nice, but as someone pointed out, that one guy had a pretty female torso.

The loot was well balanced.

The hosting in general.

The idea if keeping OOC in PM.

The bad:

The pacing. Oh the incredibly slow pacing.

The inactivity. A lot of us had our reasons, which were often long or many, and some basically dropped dead every once in a while, myself included.

False Pimky. The entire thing confused me. Cree hates confusion up till death.

The Characters:

Kellim (mencot): Kellim was roleplayed well IMO, however he seemed to be a little too gentle and diplomatic.

Kheyli (K-Nut): What the heck?!? You were absent for almost the amount of time I was without many excuses. Even when Kheyli spoke, she seemed kind of bland, not much effort. Of course, I did the same, just I wouldn't expect that from someone who plays one of the highest level heroes. If you are having a real-life crisis, tell us.

Quintessa (Sandy): Quintessa was quite an interesting character. You roleplayed well, and were surprisingly active for what you are going thorough.

Cree (Myself): Trying to think of stuff to say about Cree really makes me feel like a hypocrite. Sorry, K-nut.

All in all, I had fun, but it was really slow.

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Whoever made that Living metal sword, year starting to get annoyed with you. :grin:

You'd have to track down whoever Miderun got it from.

I'm sure it was no one of importance. :look:

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Whoever made that Living metal sword, year starting to get annoyed with you. :grin:

Yeah that would be me. :blush: Didn't figure on someone taking it into the Fields of Glory. The average quest has 4-6 battles, that can last on average 6-9 rounds, with a 2/3 chance to hit that's +(4-6) WP after every battle leading to a spread of +(16-36) WP by the end of the quest. It's a temp bonus but no more powerful than some of the others like permanently poisoned blades. :shrug_oh_well:

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On #145, I overall did enjoy the quest. The pacing was off a bit, and I had a few qualms that I'll touch on later.

Kheyli (K-Nut): What the heck?!? You were absent for almost the amount of time I was without many excuses. Even when Kheyli spoke, she seemed kind of bland, not much effort. Of course, I did the same, just I wouldn't expect that from someone who plays one of the highest level heroes. If you are having a real-life crisis, tell us.

First off, I did mention I was in a personal crisis in the private PM. :sceptic: I didn't have much time for Heroica over the past few months, which can attribute to some of the blandness. I'm still working on falling into a rhythm when it comes to playing Kheyli as she's different from Althior in quite a few ways.

Secondly, the blandness also comes with my major criticism of the quest; it seemed like there wasn't much room for interaction. A lot of the time when I was unresponsive was because all I could think to say was "Kheyli watches with interest," which would've gotten very repetitive after a while. When Kheyli needed to speak or interact with things, she did, but I honestly didn't feel like that happened too often. Most of it was listening to people go back and forth, where even if we interacted with NPCs it didn't really affect much. There were some parts where I also had no idea what was going on, and I didn't seem to be alone.

All that being said, I did enjoy the quest. It was a nice, simple concept for a low-level character quest that had some nice loot and nice story elements. There were a few mistakes, but honestly I think you'll learn as you go. :thumbup:

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First off, I did mention I was in a personal crisis in the private PM. :sceptic: I didn't have much time for Heroica over the past few months, which can attribute to some of the blandness. I'm still working on falling into a rhythm when it comes to playing Kheyli as she's different from Althior in quite a few ways.

Guess I must have skimmed over that. Sorry and hope everything goes back to normal soon.

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Yeah that would be me. :blush: Didn't figure on someone taking it into the Fields of Glory. The average quest has 4-6 battles, that can last on average 6-9 rounds, with a 2/3 chance to hit that's +(4-6) WP after every battle leading to a spread of +(16-36) WP by the end of the quest. It's a temp bonus but no more powerful than some of the others like permanently poisoned blades. :shrug_oh_well:

Should rename it the Accountant's Blade because of all the book keeping it entails. Gonna be wicked ridiculous by the end of the run.

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Thank you for hosting the quest, Palathadric, and I hope you had fun with it despite the hiccups on the way. Hosting isn't easy, as you certainly noticed, but I really have to applaud you for trying and doing your best! The battles were challenging and the loot was plentiful, so thank you for those as well. :grin:

I have to give you some pointers for future's sake, though:

- Make sure your players stay on track with the quest. Mysteries are cool and fun to solve, but too much confusion can be detrimental. There's a fine line there. :wink:

- Work on keeping the storyline coherent. The last "twist" with us chasing after Cheapy did not affect anything nor lead to anything (I was expecting at least a battle with the deceitful rat), and thus did it make any sense. Throughout the quest the motives of the NPCs were unclear - especially the fake Pimky who did not even make another appearance (at least to my recollection). The separate incidents didn't really connect well because of that.

- Don't ask players what they are going to do if there is only one choice. This happened A LOT during this quest. You asked us where we wanted to go several times, when there was only one possible way. Asking if players want to prepare is okay when there's a battle coming up, but it's totally unnecessary if there's not.

Anyway, take this as a learning experience. I'd really like to see you host again!

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Should rename it the Accountant's Blade because of all the book keeping it entails. Gonna be wicked ridiculous by the end of the run.

Hey, at least you don't have to deal with Warlen's damn boots, those things are a nightmare for bookkeeping. :poke:

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Thank you all for coming along on this "ride." I apologize that the quest took so long. I think one of the main problems of the quest was something I was actually trying to bring out: what a mess a corrupt society mixed with a rather anarchic one can be. Some concepts and ideas are just not things that can be incorporated easily into a quest. Hosting and story-writing really are quite different, I've learned. :tongue:

In any case, you guys were all very patient, and for that I'm thankful. I wish some of you had been more active, but I did realize that my NPCs weren't quite breathing the life I wanted them to, into the quest, so again I apologize for that and will try to work on especially this aspect for the next time I host.

I have to give you some pointers for future's sake, though:

- Make sure your players stay on track with the quest. Mysteries are cool and fun to solve, but too much confusion can be detrimental. There's a fine line there. :wink:

- Work on keeping the storyline coherent. The last "twist" with us chasing after Cheapy did not affect anything nor lead to anything (I was expecting at least a battle with the deceitful rat), and thus did it make any sense. Throughout the quest the motives of the NPCs were unclear - especially the fake Pimky who did not even make another appearance (at least to my recollection). The separate incidents didn't really connect well because of that.

- Don't ask players what they are going to do if there is only one choice. This happened A LOT during this quest. You asked us where we wanted to go several times, when there was only one possible way. Asking if players want to prepare is okay when there's a battle coming up, but it's totally unnecessary if there's not.

Anyway, take this as a learning experience. I'd really like to see you host again!

Yeah, I guess there is a fine balance of a certain amount of rail-roading and a certain amount of freedom in quests. It seems like I incorporated the wrong aspects of the two which led to more confusion than anything else. I will definitely try to improve on this: keeping the players focused while giving them the freedom to try things along the way.

I think you guys wielded a lot more influence than you thought. I certainly thought that you'd end up having a boss battle with Cheapy, but then Kheyli decided to run off and find Bonaparte, and Cheapy would not have let that happened, so he had to abandon his former plans and try to negotiate. Even at other times, you actions quite caught me by surprise, like when Kellim decided to pounce on the wagon driver. I thought you guys would try to pull them over and have a polite conversation (there was even a possibility for you going on a Charity mission with the Wolfgang there), but I guess I didn't take the impulsiveness of heroes into account. :laugh:

Okay, I hope I can take the mistakes of this quest and make progress from them next time around. Thanks for all the good advice and for being understanding despite the craziness of the last months. Looking back, there are a lot of things I would have done differently, but...

Special thanks to Flipz and WBD who counseled me on the battles and offered other advice too.

I thought I had a lot more to say, but the words aren't coming now. :angry::tongue:

I hope the loot wasn't too extravagant on the perma-boost side. It seemed logical as a "farm quest" to have those kinds of items more than weapons and artifacts, though I ended up throwing a few of those in too.

Also, these 2-3 months have been one pain the megablocks as far as real life is concerned, but I didn't want to have to call off the quest, though I sometimes found it difficult to concentrate on it. Thanks again for your patience in putting up with it. Things have been looking up a bit for me recently, thankfully.

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