Reference for US/EU boxes in classic town sets?

[youtoo]

Hi everyone,

I'd like to know if there is any place where I can confirm for sure if some of the classic sets are US only or not. I try to collect sets in their EU version, but sometimes I'm not sure if that set was only available in the US. Brickset is a good reference, but sometimes I have the suspicion that some sets are indeed US only even if not stated as this in Brickset. Example:

http://brickset.com/detail/?set=6553-1

http://brickset.com/detail/?Set=6387-1

http://brickset.com/detail/?Set=6444-1

Any other way to confirm if there was a EU version of sets like this?

Thanks!

[Fugazi]

The Lego Collector's Guide is one possible reference, if you have access to it. For sets 6553, 6387 and 6444, the Guide mentions availability both in EU and US. Do let me know if there are others you need to check.

[youtoo]

The Lego Collector's Guide is one possible reference, if you have access to it. For sets 6553, 6387 and 6444, the Guide mentions availability both in EU and US. Do let me know if there are others you need to check.

Thanks! I will probably do :P

It's strange, I've never seen an 6444 in European box... even in BL they are all pretty much in US/Canada...

[jd5775]

How exactly do you determine whether it's a EU/US/Asian box anyway? I know that US and Canadian sets that were sold in stores needed to have a piece count and they usually had the name of the set on the top of the box as well as the theme in the upper right corner. But US S@H sets usually did not have a piece count, theme or name on them. So are those considered European boxes then?

[Rijkvv]

-European 6553 box

-And in this leaflet of a Dutch toy shop you can see the European box of 6387.

I can't find pictures of a non-US 6444 box though. I'm quite sure I once saw this set in a Dutch shop, if not in Belgium or Germany. Most likely it was boxed in an European box version.

[youtoo]

-European 6553 box

-And in this leaflet of a Dutch toy shop you can see the European box of 6387.

I can't find pictures of a non-US 6444 box though. I'm quite sure I once saw this set in a Dutch shop, if not in Belgium or Germany. Most likely it was boxed in an European box version.

Wow Richie, you have good resources...

[Rijkvv]

A while ago I searched for something else, and then I saw this leaflet. When you started this topic, I remembered the picture of a 6387 box. It was still in my internet history. The 6553 was just a Google find (searched "lego 6553").

[youtoo]

wrong thread

Edited August 13, 2011 by youtoo

[simonwillems]

Interestting thread!

I found a picture of a European 6444 box. I own the set myself and it also came in this European box, with European leaflets. This picture is not mine, but taken from Brickshelf.

[Karto]

American 'legoland' and 'system' boxes are quite easy to recognize. They all have the peace count on the front (english/french), the set name on the side and for the 'system' boxes you'll also find the theme in the upper-right corner on the front. The European boxes don't have all these specifications. Canadian boxes from the 80s have the peace count but are usually packed somewhat different. Packaging was done locally by Samsonite which is also stated on the box itself.

Now talking about European issues is in my mind totally wrong, and that's one of the major problems with the German Collector's Guide. Sets may be available in some European countries but not everywhere. There were a lot of local limited/promotional releases in Belgium, Germany, The Netherlands, The UK and Denmark. The coastal base set 6387 mentioned above was only available in the UK (regular issue there) and on a very limited base in The Netherlands (which is why there's a European style box). I don't call this 'available in Europe'. I'm also interested in an accurate source but I'm afraid there isn't. As stated by one of the creators of the Collector's Guide, they based their book on personnal experience, on lots of research (mainly in official catalogs and advertizement) and with some limited help of TLG itself (but without archives...).

[youtoo]

http://brickset.com/detail/?Set=1782-1

US Only?

All these 17-- references seem to be US only...

[Karto]

http://brickset.com/detail/?Set=1782-1

US Only?

All these 17-- references seem to be US only...

1782 Isn't a US only set. There are atleast two versions of the box:

- The US version with the 'Divers' theme in the right upper corner, the piece count at the right bottom and the 'Building Toy' reference below the Lego logo (usually in English / French and more recently English / French / Spanish).

- The European version without any reference. I suppose this set was released in the UK and Germany as you sometimes see it for sale on eBay.de and eBay.co.uk by non-Lego collectors.

Most of the other 17xx sets were also released elsewhere. I think only the value packs 1721, 1722 and 1729 are US only. The sets from 1772 up to 1775 were only available through some airline companies (Asian and European for sure, don't know about North American).

[youtoo]

1782 Isn't a US only set. There are atleast two versions of the box:

- The US version with the 'Divers' theme in the right upper corner, the piece count at the right bottom and the 'Building Toy' reference below the Lego logo (usually in English / French and more recently English / French / Spanish).

- The European version without any reference. I suppose this set was released in the UK and Germany as you sometimes see it for sale on eBay.de and eBay.co.uk by non-Lego collectors.

Most of the other 17xx sets were also released elsewhere. I think only the value packs 1721, 1722 and 1729 are US only. The sets from 1772 up to 1775 were only available through some airline companies (Asian and European for sure, don't know about North American).

Thanks Karto.

Theme triangle you mention that is common to so many series of the era (Divers, Rescue, etc.), the one that sits on the top-right corner... is this a US feature of the boxes or they were also in EU sets?

[Karto]

Thanks Karto.

Theme triangle you mention that is common to so many series of the era (Divers, Rescue, etc.), the one that sits on the top-right corner... is this a US feature of the boxes or they were also in EU sets?

It's typical for US boxes. The differences that I can recall are as follow (starting with the appearance of the minifig in 1978):

- Between 1978 and 1980, the numbering was different in the US. The rest of the world (including Canada) used the European standard.

- Starting from 1980, the same numbering was used for Legoland sets (1978-1992) and System sets (1991-1999) but some differences on the US box layout remained due to legal issues and commercial choices:

• The piece count (on the front for Legoland, on the side or on the front for System).
  
• A (large) safety warning statement.
  
• The set name.
  
• Starting from 1990, the theme showed up at the top-right corner.
  
• The address of the US offices only.
  

The European boxes had none of these specifications on the box. In fact, the European box type was more likely the International version. It was also distibuted to Japan, China and probably other countries outside the EU. From 13 to 15 languages were used on the side for informational messages and the required European Conformity CE marking was also present.

The Canadian boxes were also different until 1990. Packaging was outsourced to Samsonite which was also stated on the box. The box structure could be different, like the fact they didn't use trays on mid-range legoland sets (ie. the 6373 Motorcycle shop). The legal statements were also on the box, but always in English and French, obviously (tabarnak!).

Note: These differences apply on boxes from the 80s and the 90s. The current system is probably different.

Edited August 17, 2011 by Karto

[CP5670]

You have described all the differences nicely. The piece count is the one difference you can find across all time periods, and is still there today.

In the US and Canada, the larger boxes with flaps also contained some text inside the flap, in English, French and sometimes Spanish. Before 1993 or so, it said something about the "creativity and quality craftsmanship" of Lego sets and after that point, it became a short description of the theme instead. I don't think the European boxes had this text.

The European boxes had none of these specifications on the box. In fact, the European box type was more likely the International version. It was also distibuted to Japan, China and probably other countries outside the EU. From 13 to 15 languages were used on the side for informational messages and the required European Conformity CE marking was also present.

Japan and South Korea actually had their own localized versions of the boxes around the early 90s. They were similar to the European boxes in most ways, but contained the set names (and what I think are the theme names) in those respective languages.

[youtoo]

It's typical for US boxes. The differences that I can recall are as follow (starting with the appearance of the minifig in 1978):

- Between 1978 and 1980, the numbering was different in the US. The rest of the world (including Canada) used the European standard.

- Starting from 1980, the same numbering was used for Legoland sets (1978-1992) and System sets (1991-1999) but some differences on the US box layout remained due to legal issues and commercial choices:

• The piece count (on the front for Legoland, on the side or on the front for System).
  
• A (large) safety warning statement.
  
• The set name.
  
• Starting from 1990, the theme showed up at the top-right corner.
  
• The address of the US offices only.
  

The European boxes had none of these specifications on the box. In fact, the European box type was more likely the International version. It was also distibuted to Japan, China and probably other countries outside the EU. From 13 to 15 languages were used on the side for informational messages and the required European Conformity CE marking was also present.

The Canadian boxes were also different until 1990. Packaging was outsourced to Samsonite which was also stated on the box. The box structure could be different, like the fact they didn't use trays on mid-range legoland sets (ie. the 6373 Motorcycle shop). The legal statements were also on the box, but always in English and French, obviously (tabarnak!).

Note: These differences apply on boxes from the 80s and the 90s. The current system is probably different.

But the triangle in particular that started showing in the 90s (Divers, Rescue, Nautica...)... was that in the EU boxes?

[Karto]

But the triangle in particular that started showing in the 90s (Divers, Rescue, Nautica...)... was that in the EU boxes?

Only US boxes had the triangle.

[youtoo]

Only US boxes had the triangle.

Thanks!

[jd5775]

It's typical for US boxes. The differences that I can recall are as follow (starting with the appearance of the minifig in 1978):

- Between 1978 and 1980, the numbering was different in the US. The rest of the world (including Canada) used the European standard.

- Starting from 1980, the same numbering was used for Legoland sets (1978-1992) and System sets (1991-1999) but some differences on the US box layout remained due to legal issues and commercial choices:

• The piece count (on the front for Legoland, on the side or on the front for System).
  
• A (large) safety warning statement.
  
• The set name.
  
• Starting from 1990, the theme showed up at the top-right corner.
  
• The address of the US offices only.
  

The European boxes had none of these specifications on the box. In fact, the European box type was more likely the International version. It was also distibuted to Japan, China and probably other countries outside the EU. From 13 to 15 languages were used on the side for informational messages and the required European Conformity CE marking was also present.

The Canadian boxes were also different until 1990. Packaging was outsourced to Samsonite which was also stated on the box. The box structure could be different, like the fact they didn't use trays on mid-range legoland sets (ie. the 6373 Motorcycle shop). The legal statements were also on the box, but always in English and French, obviously (tabarnak!).

Note: These differences apply on boxes from the 80s and the 90s. The current system is probably different.

For the most part this is true, however there are some exceptions on the US version sets. Sets like rock island refuge (6273) and lagoon lockup (6267)

did not show the pirates theme in the corner and both are from 1991, so I don't think that the corner theme started until 1992. Below is a European 6541 (yellow box) from 1991 and an American 6541 (blue box) from 1992. Intercoastal seaport was not available in the US until 1992.

American boxes had a remark on the back that you could build all the sets shown. European boxes implied it.

The bottom of the boxes are different. The piece count is usually here for American boxes but sometimes it is on the front.

The top has a picture of the set on European boxes and the name of the set on US boxes.

Here's a Legoland box, European and American. Both 1990. LEGOLAND printed on top.

Accessory track is a whole different animal. It has the name on the top and bottom

My question is about 4551. Is this set EU only?

I got mine through S@H and it came in an EU box. I am desperately looking for a US version of this set.

[Karto]

For the most part this is true, however there are some exceptions on the US version sets. Sets like rock island refuge (6273) and lagoon lockup (6267) did not show the pirates theme in the corner and both are from 1991, so I don't think that the corner theme started until 1992.

Honestly, I don't know about Pirate sets. I've more experience with town sets. Now the period between 1991 and 1992 might be tricky because that's the time when TLG started to re-think the box layouts and introduced the 'SYSTEM' concept.

Below is a European 6541 (yellow box) from 1991 and an American 6541 (blue box) from 1992. Intercoastal seaport was not available in the US until 1992.

American boxes had a remark on the back that you could build all the sets shown. European boxes implied it.

The bottom of the boxes are different. The piece count is usually here for American boxes but sometimes it is on the front.

The top has a picture of the set on European boxes and the name of the set on US boxes.

Here's a Legoland box, European and American. Both 1990. LEGOLAND printed on top.

Accessory track is a whole different animal. It has the name on the top and bottom

About the 6541 Intercoastal Seaport: Sets produced until 1991 were still in yellow 'Legoland' boxes. Some of them were reproduced the next years, either due to good sales (sets were usually produced in one batch for several years of sales) or maybe because they planned the change of the general color scheme and produced less boxes with the old layout. These reproduced sets were then delivered in the new blue 'System' box. I've for example two European boxes of the 6389 Fire Control Center, a yellow 'Legoland' one from 1990 and a blue 'System' one dated from 1992. It seems also the case in the US as you can find a 1991 US version yellow box of the 6541 Intercoastal Seaport.

My question is about 4551. Is this set EU only?

I got mine through S@H and it came in an EU box. I am desperately looking for a US version of this set.

I don't know about the 4551 crocodile engine. I don't see it in my US catalogs and it seems no US sellers has one for sale on bricklink. I didn't even know S@H existed in the early 90s

[youtoo]

Honestly, I don't know about Pirate sets. I've more experience with town sets. Now the period between 1991 and 1992 might be tricky because that's the time when TLG started to re-think the box layouts and introduced the 'SYSTEM' concept.

About the 6541 Intercoastal Seaport: Sets produced until 1991 were still in yellow 'Legoland' boxes. Some of them were reproduced the next years, either due to good sales (sets were usually produced in one batch for several years of sales) or maybe because they planned the change of the general color scheme and produced less boxes with the old layout. These reproduced sets were then delivered in the new blue 'System' box. I've for example two European boxes of the 6389 Fire Control Center, a yellow 'Legoland' one from 1990 and a blue 'System' one dated from 1992. It seems also the case in the US as you can find a 1991 US version yellow box of the 6541 Intercoastal Seaport.

I don't know about the 4551 crocodile engine. I don't see it in my US catalogs and it seems no US sellers has one for sale on bricklink. I didn't even know S@H existed in the early 90s

That's an amazing amount of interesting info. Thanks all!

[jd5775]

Honestly, I don't know about Pirate sets. I've more experience with town sets. Now the period between 1991 and 1992 might be tricky because that's the time when TLG started to re-think the box layouts and introduced the 'SYSTEM' concept.

About the 6541 Intercoastal Seaport: Sets produced until 1991 were still in yellow 'Legoland' boxes. Some of them were reproduced the next years, either due to good sales (sets were usually produced in one batch for several years of sales) or maybe because they planned the change of the general color scheme and produced less boxes with the old layout. These reproduced sets were then delivered in the new blue 'System' box. I've for example two European boxes of the 6389 Fire Control Center, a yellow 'Legoland' one from 1990 and a blue 'System' one dated from 1992. It seems also the case in the US as you can find a 1991 US version yellow box of the 6541 Intercoastal Seaport.

I don't know about the 4551 crocodile engine. I don't see it in my US catalogs and it seems no US sellers has one for sale on bricklink. I didn't even know S@H existed in the early 90s

Thanks for the info. That means there are 4 different boxes for 6541 and probably a lot of other sets. Wow!

Here's a picture of 4551 in a catalog.

As I was looking through this catalog again, I noticed that some sets were advertised in their boxes. It seems that there are some town sets that lack themes and therefore (understandably) they do not have the triangle.

[youtoo]

http://brickset.com/detail/?Set=1665-1 (the picture in Brickset seems of an European box, but never seen this on eBay or anything...)

http://brickset.com/detail/?Set=1821-1

So, US-only for both or no?

[CP5670]

I've for example two European boxes of the 6389 Fire Control Center, a yellow 'Legoland' one from 1990 and a blue 'System' one dated from 1992.

That particular set is actually a bit unusual. TLG not only changed the box style and color, but the picture of the model became completely different. I only have the Legoland version but have seen pictures of the System one too.

[Karto]

http://brickset.com/detail/?Set=1665-1 (the picture in Brickset seems of an European box, but never seen this on eBay or anything...)

http://brickset.com/detail/?Set=1821-1

So, US-only for both or no?

All the 1xxx town sets are either promotional or limited releases, usually exclusive to a store chain and limited to one or a few countries. So, it might be tricky to find out were it was sold.

Limited releases based on dragster racing and other exotic car sports were usually intended for the US market as regular sets (such as 1461, 1477, 1496, 1497, 1517, 1518, 1528, 1572, 1612, 1631, etc.) but some were also released elsewhere as exclusives. In the case of 1665, the set was released in atleast one European country: mine, Belgium . I got it back at the time when we were quite lucky in Belgium (mid 80s to 90) to have a lot of exclusive sets such as the 1525 Containrer Lorry, 1472 Holiday Home, etc. I do remember having seen a 1665 US box (with 'Town System' written below 'Legoland' on the front) but I can't find any examples, I'm not sure though.

Set 1821 was a US only set imo. I got mine shipped over a few years ago.