A proposal

[Tazmaniac]

I agree we keep it simple but things like raking and damage don't need to be understood in too much depth by the players it's the game master that has to work all the hits ect, so while a basic understanding is needed by the players it's the game master who does all the work.

For those wishing to take part in future games should take the time to google any terminology they are not familiar with, it's the least they could do after Hoory and Phred have spent so much time creating the game for us.

[Horry]

I think raking would be best made a maneuver. It is similar to the Eldin Attack but could be made more difficult and more devastating. I'll develop somethin' for it.

[Horry]

Sorry for the double post, but the following issues have caught my attention and I would like your opinion on it:

(1) For firing a broadside, we need to determine if the firing ship has to be in the right position at the beginning of the firing sequence or can move into the right position and fire in the same turn. I tend to the second possibility as it allows much more room for interesting maneuvers - what do you think?

(2) I have added some PM-random events, you already got one both. Do you think this would add up to the fun or is this too much detail? If you like this, we could add up other things like

-a fresh breeze (speeds up for a turn)

-group of dolphins sighted (rises spirits and heals +5 damage if there is a carpenter)

-St. Elmos fire (with higher wind speeds - evokes fear and takes away 10 points on every fired broadside)

-loose rigging (stops movement for a turn)

(3)Shall the game host inform about things like:

-in firing range

-damage reaches critical levels

-known shoals in sight

[Admiral Croissant]

Could we get an even closer look of the ships/battlefield now they are closer together?

[Horry]

Could we get an even closer look of the ships/battlefield now they are closer together?

That shall not be a problem - you'll see much more details next turn

[Capt.JohnPaul]

Sorry for the double post, but the following issues have caught my attention and I would like your opinion on it:

(1) For firing a broadside, we need to determine if the firing ship has to be in the right position at the beginning of the firing sequence or can move into the right position and fire in the same turn. I tend to the second possibility as it allows much more room for interesting maneuvers - what do you think?

(2) I have added some PM-random events, you already got one both. Do you think this would add up to the fun or is this too much detail? If you like this, we could add up other things like

-a fresh breeze (speeds up for a turn)

-group of dolphins sighted (rises spirits and heals +5 damage if there is a carpenter)

-St. Elmos fire (with higher wind speeds - evokes fear and takes away 10 points on every fired broadside)

-loose rigging (stops movement for a turn)

(3)Shall the game host inform about things like:

-in firing range no, the admiral should already know that - Capt.JohnPaul

-damage reaches critical levels admirals should know that as well.

-known shoals in sight

Ive bolded things in your quote that I think are good ideas.

[Tazmaniac]

Sorry for the double post, but the following issues have caught my attention and I would like your opinion on it:

(1) For firing a broadside, we need to determine if the firing ship has to be in the right position at the beginning of the firing sequence or can move into the right position and fire in the same turn. I tend to the second possibility as it allows much more room for interesting maneuvers - what do you think?

(2) I have added some PM-random events, you already got one both. Do you think this would add up to the fun or is this too much detail? If you like this, we could add up other things like

-a fresh breeze (speeds up for a turn)

-group of dolphins sighted (rises spirits and heals +5 damage if there is a carpenter)

-St. Elmos fire (with higher wind speeds - evokes fear and takes away 10 points on every fired broadside)

-loose rigging (stops movement for a turn)

(3)Shall the game host inform about things like:

-in firing range

-damage reaches critical levels

-known shoals in sight

My thoughts about the above.

I really like the added ideas in section (2)

Can we pivot at the end of a movement? up to 90 degrees?

All hell is about to break loose.

[Cap'n Crunch]

I think a more primitive weapon like the ballista can be added to the game. It was the primary ship to ship weapon before the advent of cannons. Sets like 7018 Viking Ship Challenges Midgard Serpent and the 7048 Troll Warship, and the 7029 Skeleton Ship Attack all featured ballistas. Not every member of this fourum have ships so as pointed out earlier, they could use sets TLG made instead. Just to add more variety so that not everyone would be using Skull Eye Schooners or Imperial Flagships (the new one), more primitive ships could be added to the game.

The proposals made by Horry should make the game less predictable and more enjoyable. They would give smaller fleets a chance to fight back in a battle against a bigger fleet.

[Tazmaniac]

@ Captain Crunch: The game focusses on the "age of sail" 16th to mid 19th century.

While these rules could be used to create what you have proposed, at this point I see no need to add such things.

[Bart]

:D :D I want to play this game !

but first I'll have to build a ship... I.e. buy the appropriate bricks

just wondering any extra points for bow or stern chasers ?

-like being able to shoot upon another ship while you are behind or in front of it instead of alongside

Bart

[Horry]

Activity! I take it back that I have a problem with the time zones: So far the game is quite fast and it has the benefit of gettin' up and seing four of five replies. I like this!

Ive bolded things in your quote that I think are good ideas.

My thoughts about the above.

I really like the added ideas in section (2)

Can we pivot at the end of a movement? up to 90 degrees?

All hell is about to break loose.

Okay, let's fix this: You can pivot up to 90° if you want to be able to fire a broadside OR you can make a >90° turn but NO broadside - everybode fine with that?

I think a more primitive weapon like the ballista can be added to the game. It was the primary ship to ship weapon before the advent of cannons. Sets like 7018 Viking Ship Challenges Midgard Serpent and the 7048 Troll Warship, and the 7029 Skeleton Ship Attack all featured ballistas. Not every member of this fourum have ships so as pointed out earlier, they could use sets TLG made instead. Just to add more variety so that not everyone would be using Skull Eye Schooners or Imperial Flagships (the new one), more primitive ships could be added to the game.

The proposals made by Horry should make the game less predictable and more enjoyable. They would give smaller fleets a chance to fight back in a battle against a bigger fleet.

While I support the general idea that everyone can participate that has a boat or a ship (hell, I've even thought about making games for blacktron and knights), I'd say, we keep it simple for now. If someone with a ballista wants to fight another one with a ballista - come here, ask and I'll make a mod for this game. But as for now, ballistas and cannons would be a bit unbalanced.

:D :D I want to play this game !

but first I'll have to build a ship... I.e. buy the appropriate bricks

just wondering any extra points for bow or stern chasers ?

-like being able to shoot upon another ship while you are behind or in front of it instead of alongside

Bart

:D :D I want to play this game !

but first I'll have to build a ship... I.e. buy the appropriate bricks

just wondering any extra points for bow or stern chasers ?

-like being able to shoot upon another ship while you are behind or in front of it instead of alongside

Bart

Placing the cannons there would of course add greatly to your combat abilities - and hence I think this would be extra enough

If your question was referring on how to do chasers for the game: just add them to your ship in a manner that you like and don't forget to take some nice pictures of it - no building rules for the game.

Plus: I am glad you like the game

[Capn Frank]

Sorry for the double post, but the following issues have caught my attention and I would like your opinion on it:

I do believe that this form of double post is perfectly fine.

(2) I have added some PM-random events, you already got one both. Do you think this would add up to the fun or is this too much detail? If you like this, we could add up other things like

-a fresh breeze (speeds up for a turn)

-group of dolphins sighted (rises spirits and heals +5 damage if there is a carpenter)

-St. Elmos fire (with higher wind speeds - evokes fear and takes away 10 points on every fired broadside)

-loose rigging (stops movement for a turn)

These ideas add some unpredictability to the game, which I really like.

Hey, can we have cannibalistic islanders at some islands too?

If you get too close to their island, they'll come and attack your ship.

(3)Shall the game host inform about things like:

-in firing range

-damage reaches critical levels

-known shoals in sight

Maybe being informed if a ship is within firing range, but I don't think players should know exactly where all of the shoals are located or if their vessel is on the brink of sinking (they would hopefully already know anyways).

[Capt.JohnPaul]

Hey, can we have cannibalistic islanders at some islands too?

If you get too close to their island, they'll come and attack your ship.

Good idea! If you hit shoals and hit ground, they demand a sacrifice!!!

[Bart]

just a question about the beta test;

where does the wind come from ?

Bart

[Horry]

just a question about the beta test;

where does the wind come from ?

Bart

Do you see the compass rose up in the right corner? The blue spike indicates the direction of the wind.

Also: Congrats on making citizen!

[Tazmaniac]

Whne an attack takes place is the result of that attack posted before the other player takes his/her turn?

Your doing a great job Horry, thank you.

[Horry]

That makes sense as the attacked person should be able to react in the same round.

and thank you!

[Admiral Croissant]

Now things are getting interesting!

I also like the famous "don't give up the ship" quote

[cb4]

The blue spike indicates the direction of the wind.

So the wind is blowing from NE into SW? Was the intent to give the two smaller ships the weather gage and force the HellHound to beat up?

[Horry]

So the wind is blowing from NE into SW? Was the intent to give the two smaller ships the weather gage and force the HellHound to beat up?

Yes, that is the direction. And for those small ships there is no weather gage as their sails area is too small to outrun the Hell Hound anyway, even if they make speed running. Additionally, I casted dice in order to determine the starting points, so there was no possibility of balancing the odds for me

[cb4]

Yes, that is the direction. And for those small ships there is no weather gage as their sails area is too small to outrun the Hell Hound anyway, even if they make speed running. Additionally, I casted dice in order to determine the starting points, so there was no possibility of balancing the odds for me

I disagree. If the two smaller ships did not have the weather gage they would be at a disadvantage against a larger, more powerful ship because they would be much easier to isolate. When a squadron has the weather gage it can always provide mutual support because the ship that engages the enemy first will downwind of its companion. When it does not, the enemy can attack the ship that is farthest to windward and potentially destroy it before its partner can beat up and join the fight.

[Horry]

I disagree. If the two smaller ships did not have the weather gage they would be at a disadvantage against a larger, more powerful ship because they would be much easier to isolate. When a squadron has the weather gage it can always provide mutual support because the ship that engages the enemy first will downwind of its companion. When it does not, the enemy can attack the ship that is farthest to windward and potentially destroy it before its partner can beat up and join the fight.

imho this can not be generalized. While the basic principles described by you are indeed aplicable to many historical naval battles, there is no natural law that the commanders of the flotilla will actually be able to use that principle. Additionally, the chosen tactic would greatly rely on the weaponry and the equipment on board as well on the the course of action the enemy takes. For example, Hell Hound has not tacked while engaging the enemy but positioned himself in order to be able to attack while at least being in broad reach. If you compare the maximum speed of a brig of war to that of a sixth rate in broad reach, the ship will most certainly not be able to match the top speed. If you read through the thread you will see that Phred has provided us with an accurate formula that enables us to calculate the maximum speeds of the respective ships taking part in every game. As one square represents a fixed area we have translated the maximum speed into squares/turn. While the ratio may have to be adjusted and will never be perfectly accurate, it does reflect a certain level of realism.

Anyway - I'll never say that this game is anywhere near the realistic circumstances of naval battles. It is intended to provide joy and thrill and enable the gamers to show off with their wonderful MOCs

Edited July 2, 2011 by Horry

[Horry]

Another double post. I've made a collection of things to change that have caught my attention during the beta test, so far. I'd be happy if you gave me feedback

(1) easiest thing to answer: are you happy with the graphics, especially of the broadsides, the zoom and the water channels?

(2) What do you think of the fights? I noticed that I haven't shown my tables for calculating the casualties. It is done in a similar fashion as the damage: 25% of the crew will be killed off if the hull damage increased up to 25% and so on. Additionally, there will be 2 possible victims among the special crewmembers, determined with a D20.

(3)I've come to the conclusion that we have to work on the rules for bringing the ship into firing position. If you can fire the broadside anytime and then go off to any square, the game becomes too lenient in my opinion. Would you agree if we say that a broadside determines the course? e.g. You fire a broadside with the course being west, you have to go west afterwards for the remainder of this turn? Or shall we say that changing course by more than 90° will use up the turn anyway? The rule is now:

You can pivot up to 90° if you want to be able to fire a broadside OR you can make a >90° turn but NO broadside

You think that this is enough?

(4)Do you think that the hitpoints/damage points are balanced or shall we make the cannons stronger/less stronger?

(5)Concerning the islands: There'll be no cannibals with me in this game, sorry mates - I've outlined my stubborn opinion on this matter in this thread and I would be not happy if I had to support prejudices against other peoples. But if you agree, we could discuss point 6 to replace the islanders.

(6)we could position little pirate forts that could attack anyone that comes close - if the forts are destroyed or taken by marines, they could be salvaged for bonuses. What do you think?

(7) I'd like to add a crow's nest to the special equipment, enabling the ship to see the damage of the enemy if the ship using the crow's nest is slow enough. That way, gathering information would add up to the tactical possibilities of a fight.

Edited July 3, 2011 by Horry

[Tazmaniac]

1) looks great, though maybe the smaller ships could be less than a square long. The HellHound is almost twice as long as the Revere and Thunderer but looks the same size in the game. Maybe we could shoot our ships at 45 degrees from above to show better detail but still use the grid, like Sid Meiers pirates. This would mean taking shots at different angles but would look sweet.

2) Works fine but those tables will need to be made public so every one can get a better idea of how it works.

3) we need to work something out here maybe, 45 degrees max pivit when using broadsides as it's too easy to get into position at the moment.

4) I think this works as is.

5/6) Pirates/ islanders/Redcoats/Blue coats all sound good to me , maybe it could be any of these factions with a single rule set. The game master can choose one that fits the map/battle.

7) why not it makes sense to me.

[Horry]

oooh, a meier game about pirates and I've missed it? shame on me!

On topic: The angles are a neat idea but I fear for practicability - let me experiment a little on this one.

On another note: We're finished! The first beta test is over - please give your feedbacks here, everyone! I will hold mine back until I've collected yours - feedback on the actual battle would be nice as well.