Plea for Base Plates?

[Syn]

Dear Lego or whom it may concern,

I am an avid AFOL, I purchase your product almost every week. I decided it was high time that I went and embarked on a project that was going to take a long time to build and a lot of parts. I upgraded LDD to the most current version and got ready to do some modeling of the buildings I am wanting to portray, only to find there are NO more base plates of ANY size. More specifically the 16x32 base Plate in GRAY. This is really the only base plate I am concerned with as if I need to make grass I can use the new Green Plates that you have made available. But my issue goes deeper than that, you can now no longer get any base plates on the Lego Website other than the 32x32 green and Blue large base plate, and the 48x48 Gray extra large base plate. Please don't tell me that you are planning on phasing out the base plates in favor of these new plates as seen in the Log Cabin. I have never liked anything other than your Base plates for well, the BASE of my buildings.

Is this a temporary thing? are you revamping the design? or are you phasing out to make room for these new plates? I would be rather upset if you phased out the base plates in whole or in part. Please bring back at the very least the 16x32 base plates. These are cleaner, make better looking models, and when I purchase the set off LDD, they still WORK with my city that I have built thus far with the official and MOCS of my own.

Sincerely,

Upset AFOL.

[Aanchir]

I've noticed a number of these sorts of posts around Eurobricks, where people are concerned about baseplates disappearing. I consider it an interesting phenomenon, since AFOLs in general tend to prefer smaller, more versatile parts to anything "<insert that tiresome argument>" or "prefab". AFOL MOCs I see tend to have either a custom base (often made with SNOT), or they otherwise have the baseplate completely covered up with other plates, tiles, and bricks.

There are advantages and disadvantages to baseplates, of course. A baseplate larger than 16x16 is a sturdier base than one made from smaller plates, but at the same time it is flexible and can thus make carrying MOCs and sets a hassle. They are difficult to store, especially if you have ones that are not completely flat like were common throughout the 90s. They are identically sized, making it hard to create a city with variable sizes of blocks but at the same time making it easy to create grid streets. They are solid without any seams in the middle, but due to their rounded edges they have obvious gaps where the corners meet which MOCists are forced to cover up. They are well-engineered to act as bases, but they are difficult to use for other creative purposes.

I've actually been contemplating what sort of after-effects could arise from the transition to basic plates instead of specialized baseplate pieces. One thing in particular I've contemplated is whether we might enter a new era in road plates. Consider the modern road-plate. It has a 6-stud sidewalk area on each side of a 20-stud road. This is great for a lot of applications, but there are others where it poses problems. For instance, you cannot transplant a modular building layout onto these road plates without at least a 12-stud alleyway at some point, since these road plates in any variation only exist as 32x32 baseplates.

Now, consider what alternatives might emerge if LEGO took their transition to basic plates (seen in the Games, Creator, and Architecture themes primarily) all the way. The obvious part choice for roads would be this piece, the 8x16 tile. This would produce a narrower road than the standard road plate, but it would still be large enough to accommodate 6-wide or 7-wide cars. And a road layout built with this tile could easily have a city block in a size divisible by 16 studs, thereby allowing a modular building to be placed in the layout. Meanwhile, the road itself would be more modular, leading to some interesting possibilities. With three different styles of that tile-- one blank, one printed with road lines down the center, and one printed with a crosswalk-- you could easily place create 3-way or 4-way intersections, or even place crosswalks at convenient points on a straight road. The main disadvantage to this, of course, is that with the parts currently available it would be difficult to make a curved road, but curved road plates in general are rarely used in sets or MOCs, and are difficult to build around.

Overall, I feel that whether or not baseplates disappear, we should start getting used to designing MOCs both with and without them. If baseplates do disappear entirely, I think we should make sure we're fully equipped to adapt to their absence. For me, I consider this transition a curiosity, but am sure that it simply will not reach its conclusion until LEGO's designers have managed to compensate fully for whatever advantages of baseplates are lost in transitioning to plate-based building.

[Syn]

My main concern about this though is that I have invested a lot of money in base plates and road plates. if they were to transition from base plates to standard plates there would be no way to match them up. also the 16x32 plates are the perfect size for the project that I am about to embark on, as well as two together make them the same size as the road plate. I've not encountered the 12 stud alley problem that you speak of as of yet. I have a set of 3 buildings that I'm working on that equal out to 64x32 which would be two road plates. But I only use road plates for my town, and your right I don't use the curved plates unless there isn't anything there as if it is a field going out of town I mainly use straight, T and 4 ways.

Another question to be raised would be why would they be doing this now? I mean the extra large base plate has been around since around, what, 1965? I mean you bring up a few really good points but, why change something that has worked so well for so long. AFOLs go for details but kids just want things to fit.

[Athos]

I like the baseplates too. They are a great starting place for large MOCs.

I would really like to see some more of the tan 32x32s.

Steve

[Jargo]

Interesting. I decided a while back that trying to build my town around baseplates would be quite limiting given the basic layouts one can achieve with the four road plates available. So I decided to (eventually) make a painted base board with more interesting road layout that I could then place buildings onto. Which would give me better opportunity to lay down roads of single, double narrow or wide lanes. I could have any degree of curve or diagonal also. Plus allow me to have car parks of any size without having to tile to get a smooth surface.

Effectively it's also a budgetry concern. Baseplates are getting more expensive and I don't have the funds any more to purchase the amount of baseplates I'd want. Table sized bases that are painted are the best solution for me. As town planner I can just repaint and have roads, pedestrianised areas, green spaces or whatever anywhere I choose without being limited to the constraints of the Lego designated stud/road patterns.

I've seen a few large public displays with painted baseboards and they work well. If I want hill roads I can also do that more easily than I could with Lego baseplates.

That's not to say I don't like Lego baseplates. I do. I have lots of them and they're great for building on and keeping things together. I just don't think they're the best solution in terms of play or display.

[fred67]

Interesting comment Brickenhead-town-dweller; when I was little we did that with HO trains. I did not have a complicated layout (I was little), but my dad got a 4x8 sheet of plywood and my Mom painted it for me, including roads.

It worked really well for what it was - HO trains and matchbox cars. I agree the baseplates with roads are limited, and they are limited in the way you buy them, too... just like train tracks, you can't just get "straights" separately.

Still... LEGO tends to lend itself to certain sizes, and the baseplates work really well for a lot of them. Luckily there is still bricklink to buy other size baseplates from and, moreover, you may yet see the return of other sizes. Blue 32x32 was gone for some time before making a reappearance.

Ultimately I have to agree that TLG shouldn't abandon 16x32 baseplates, seeing as how they themselves have started the trend of building the modular buildings on baseplates and how Xx32 would simply fit better with them. I can't imagine trying to replace one of the modular baseplates with a bunch of standard baseplates... peeling off all those tiles and everything, just to make it level with adjacent buildings.

[tedbeard]

One thing in particular I've contemplated is whether we might enter a new era in road plates....since these road plates in any variation only exist as 32x32 baseplates.

I am generally very "purist" but I recently took the lead from a friend who does trains in a big way and cut one of my straight road plates in half. Having that perfect 16-long road plate suddenly makes doing layouts a lot more interesting.

Edited April 18, 2011 by tedbeard

[Jareth]

I have to admit that I miss the baseplates a little. I am also finding that they are becoming MORE usefull, not less.

The Lego Atlantis Treasure Game is a wonderful game, but I had to take a blue Baseplate and attach it to the bottom to make it more stable. I also used smaller baseplates on Lava dragon, and Monster 4 would probably work better with a baseplate instead of regular plates.

I also want to build a Moonbase Module, but with regular baseplates in gray not available, I had to get four 48x48 baseplates and design a 3x3 moonbase (not built yet)

so, I guess I am in support of flat Baseplates, but I do wonder about how cost effective it is for lego to make them. I always thought that it was cheaper to make baseplates than other plates, and made the sets look bigger. That's something that Lego is doing a lot of.

Anyway, I'm rambling so let me sum it up as I like Flat baseplates, I LOVE crater base plates and other raised base plates are the devil.

[Aanchir]

Interesting comment Brickenhead-town-dweller; when I was little we did that with HO trains. I did not have a complicated layout (I was little), but my dad got a 4x8 sheet of plywood and my Mom painted it for me, including roads.

It worked really well for what it was - HO trains and matchbox cars. I agree the baseplates with roads are limited, and they are limited in the way you buy them, too... just like train tracks, you can't just get "straights" separately.

Still... LEGO tends to lend itself to certain sizes, and the baseplates work really well for a lot of them. Luckily there is still bricklink to buy other size baseplates from and, moreover, you may yet see the return of other sizes. Blue 32x32 was gone for some time before making a reappearance.

Ultimately I have to agree that TLG shouldn't abandon 16x32 baseplates, seeing as how they themselves have started the trend of building the modular buildings on baseplates and how Xx32 would simply fit better with them. I can't imagine trying to replace one of the modular baseplates with a bunch of standard baseplates... peeling off all those tiles and everything, just to make it level with adjacent buildings.

Well, the problem I observe is that people already will occasionally "transplant" their modular buildings to get them onto road plates. I've seen this at Brickfair on occasion, since there road plates are the norm rather than the exception. And this is where working with baseplates gets a little messy. Modular buildings exist in 32x32 (all corner buildings and most others) and 16x32 (Market Street). Unless you're using road plates with an 8-stud curb (which largely disappeared after the 90s), there's no way to get a city block to measure a multiple of 16 studs from corner to corner. On the other hand, if LEGO were to transition to a more modular style based on plates and tiles, then you could easily get a city block just the right size without even needing to chop the Market Street in half to fill in the extra 16 studs the corner plates produce. Instead, your street itself would be modular.

This is of course hypothetical, because I have no idea whether there is any intent to expand standard plates to replace baseplates in all themes. But I do feel it's about time we started considering the new options plates provide, since it seems clear to me that sets built on plates rather than baseplates won't be going away entirely. In any event, I'm sure everyone's grateful that the trend in the late 90s of Castle sets being built on bricks rather than baseplates never caught on. I have to say, though, I'm a lot more receptive to the switch to regular plates than I was about the switch to bricks, no matter how many base bricks and baseplates alike I have accumulated in my basement back home.

If baseplates do get replaced altogether (which I don't foresee happening anytime soon, at any rate), it's possible that people who are willing to make that transition could probably get a good value for their baseplates on Bricklink, since I'm sure there are also AFOLs who would be simply unwilling to make that transition.

[Joebot]

What I find most frustrating about TLC's baseplates is the illogical, scattershot "strategy" behind their offerings. The return of the blue baseplate was a welcome surprise. But when TLC had those nifty Farm sets last year, why not come out with a brown baseplate to simulate a plowed field? There are some new Harbor sets coming out this summer; why not have some tan or yellow baseplates for beaches? With all the Hoth Star Wars sets they've made in the past few years, how about some white baseplates to sell alongside them??

This is not a new problem by any means. Back during the Wild West theme, the Gold Mine set had a printed curved road, but they never made a matching straight road. The Wild West theme also had sets printed with a curved river, but they never made a matching straight river. Conversely, the Rocky River Retreat set had a very cool green and blue straight river plate, but they never made a corresponding curved river. Why not?!!?

Road plates are a whole other problem. Selling a "straight road / cross road" bundle was a huge mistake, and guaranteed that I will never buy another road plate direct from TLC again. At the risk of sounding like a grumpy old man ... you used to be able to buy two straight roads for $5. Now you're paying $13 for a straight road and a cross road that you may or may not want. That's a terrible deal for the consumer.

[Aanchir]

What I find most frustrating about TLC's baseplates is the illogical, scattershot "strategy" behind their offerings. The return of the blue baseplate was a welcome surprise. But when TLC had those nifty Farm sets last year, why not come out with a brown baseplate to simulate a plowed field? There are some new Harbor sets coming out this summer; why not have some tan or yellow baseplates for beaches? With all the Hoth Star Wars sets they've made in the past few years, how about some white baseplates to sell alongside them??

This is not a new problem by any means. Back during the Wild West theme, the Gold Mine set had a printed curved road, but they never made a matching straight road. The Wild West theme also had sets printed with a curved river, but they never made a matching straight river. Conversely, the Rocky River Retreat set had a very cool green and blue straight river plate, but they never made a corresponding curved river. Why not?!!?

Road plates are a whole other problem. Selling a "straight road / cross road" bundle was a huge mistake, and guaranteed that I will never buy another road plate direct from TLC again. At the risk of sounding like a grumpy old man ... you used to be able to buy two straight roads for $5. Now you're paying $13 for a straight road and a cross road that you may or may not want. That's a terrible deal for the consumer.

Well, with a lot of those examples (Wild West sets and Rocky River Retreat), those were specialized road/river plates for those particular sets. Unless another set in the theme had needed road/river plates, it's doubtful other versions would have been released. If the first versions had come individually, then yeah, alternate shapes of those plates would be expected. But I can't think of how they'd release extra "road packs" if the original versions on their own weren't imagined to have enough demand to be sold in a pack.

On a side note, no, I'm not saying it wasn't a problem. I had pretty much all of those sets and it drove me crazy, too.

A certain thing to consider is that baseplates drive up the cost of a set significantly due to their size, and only really work if there's enough "set" on top of them to make the baseplate's inclusion worthwhile. After all, a baseplate is something that in most cases you'll never be able to use for anything other than a baseplate. So to include a baseplate in certain sets would basically be driving up the price of a set for something that won't contribute to most people's building experience. With regular plates, yes, it's a heavier piece with a higher volume of plastic. But it's also something that can be easily re-used for something other than its original function.

A good example of a recent set that wouldn't have worked too well without baseplates is Space Police Central. Yes, you could theoretically arrange it on regular plates. Even the ballistics testing area could theoretically have been done with a framework of plates. But it wouldn't have at all the same level of unity and solidity without the baseplates holding the prison cell platform, main building, and break room together. With today's larger 16x16 and 8x16 plates, perhaps using regular plates would be a more viable option, but in the context of the year it was released baseplates were the only really viable option for that set. A set based primarily on vehicles, as is the case with many of the largest Star Wars sets (incidentally, also the sets that could more easily absorb the cost of a baseplate), has considerably less use for baseplates.

[hanzocloud]

baseplates arnt just disappearing, the "quality" has gone down hill too!!!.. almost all of those 32x32 xlarge grey baseplates do not have a smooth base, the inward holes you see underneath the baseplate, should all be equal, but all 5 "new" blueish grey 32x32 baseplates i have has got uneven paint with some parts of the baseplates with too much paint making it stick out a bit from the holes.

THe older grey colored 32x32 baseplate didnt have this problem.

[Aanchir]

baseplates arnt just disappearing, the "quality" has gone down hill too!!!.. almost all of those 32x32 xlarge grey baseplates do not have a smooth base, the inward holes you see underneath the baseplate, should all be equal, but all 5 "new" blueish grey 32x32 baseplates i have has got uneven paint with some parts of the baseplates with too much paint making it stick out a bit from the holes.

THe older grey colored 32x32 baseplate didnt have this problem.

Paint? What kind of 32x32 baseplates are you discussing? Are you sure you're not confusing problems with the actual plastic with paint problems?

Anyway, I think TLG used to outsource their baseplate production to another company (the company that also used to make BIONICLE canisters). But I may have read that incorrectly. Something to that effect was mentioned in the "Press Room" on LEGO.com, but it's no longer there, so I can't verify.

Edited May 8, 2011 by Aanchir

[hanzocloud]

Paint? What kind of 32x32 baseplates are you discussing? Are you sure you're not confusing problems with the actual plastic with paint problems?

I think it's best described with photos. Pictures speak for themselves on quality issues.

Here is the good quality one. (Notice the base is actually smooth)

Here is the new bad quality one. (notice the paint/plastic protruding around the edges of the holes, which makes the base bumpy and not smooth.

Edited May 14, 2011 by hanzocloud

[legolijntje]

Here is the new bad quality one. (notice the paint/plastic protruding around the edges of the holes, which makes the base bumpy and not smooth.

I noticed that too; almost all my newer (from the last months) have that

[RubeusHagrid]

Sorry if this is blatant advertising for myself, but I consider it relevant, as if Lego hadn't stopped selling them for 1.77 GBP on Pick A Brick I wouldn't have to be doing this.

This is what I've posted in BSTF

For a project I'm working on I need 18 x Baseplate 16x32 in Dark Bley. Lego Customer Service want to charge me £60 for them, and I really haven't got that much for just the baseplates. Is there any kind soul on here, who has any they would sell for £2 a plate or less? I really need these as soon as possible.

Thanks in advance

Matthew

[LEGO Guy Bri]

Here is the good quality one. (Notice the base is actually smooth)

(notice the paint/plastic protruding around the edges of the holes, which makes the base bumpy and not smooth.

Quality control issue? I would love to see a larger selection of baseplates. I definitely need tan, gray, and green, in different sizes.

[Aanchir]

Quality control issue? I would love to see a larger selection of baseplates. I definitely need tan, gray, and green, in different sizes.

I wonder if that might have something to do with the "insourcing" of a lot of LEGO's production in the past several years. Note this press release from 2005, which mentions about Greiner Packaging that it "has supplied can packaging and building plates to the LEGO Group for many years." Since LEGO has reclaimed control of much of the production that had been outsourced to Flextronics over the years, the same could possibly apply to their partnership with Greiner Packaging.

This could possibly also explain why the price of baseplates has increased so dramatically over the years. Since outsourcing is often a cost-cutting or streamlining measure, it's possible that trying to assume control of packaging that was previously outsourced could produce the opposite effect, with production costs increasing and production becoming less streamlined and harder to keep efficient.

[Jareth]

I just had another thought. When I was a kid, there were more baseplates around and I didn't have any serious problems with instructions/stickers getting bent. Now that I'm an adult, no base plates and bent instructions seem more common. Could the baseplates be protecting the paper elements?

On the other hand the worst bending I've seen was in the "Grand Carousel" which DID have a baseplate. Perhaps it's just my imagination.

It's all a little irrelevant now that TLG is packaging instructions with cardboard in the larger sets, and I can't imagine that a baseplate would be cheaper than a piece of cardboard.

[Bearded Castle Guy]

I just had another thought. When I was a kid, there were more baseplates around and I didn't have any serious problems with instructions/stickers getting bent. Now that I'm an adult, no base plates and bent instructions seem more common. Could the baseplates be protecting the paper elements?

On the other hand the worst bending I've seen was in the "Grand Carousel" which DID have a baseplate. Perhaps it's just my imagination.

It's all a little irrelevant now that TLG is packaging instructions with cardboard in the larger sets, and I can't imagine that a baseplate would be cheaper than a piece of cardboard.

I remember that a lot of the older sets i got as a kid had the trays inside, many times multi level/multi part trays or dividing inserts. I also seem to recall that the 'paper goods' including were quite often packed UNDER all the sub-trays and inserts, flat against the bottom of the main tray.

I agree that the baseplate options from the regular selection are limited(especially if your NOT a townie), in the full sized one the Green 32 x 32, the Blue 32 x 32 and the BLey-- err blueish Light Grey 48 x48. Townies have 2 more options, the Strait and Crossroad plates and T Junction and Curved plates sets. If you want say, a river, you'll have to either add plates for it or build up the banks of the river on a blue one. Not that's that's all bad per say but I can think of at LEAST 3 different road width standards so it's very hard to nicely mix road plates from different eras.

I'd like to see a few more colors available at a minium, even if it's thru pick-a-brick online if they must avoid new set numbers and packaging. Colors such as Tan (#5 brick yellow or #312 medium nougat)and Brown (#193 Redish Brown or 308 Dark Brown) would greatly expand options in basepalte color. I'm usually too much of a purist to modify bricks, or in this case baseplate's so a 32 x32 Light Blueish Grey baseplate would be welcome as well.

[CaptainBermuda]

The Lego co. has gotten cheap, therefore they don't make baseplates anymore. But you should still be able to buy them at Lego stores. If not than there's always eBay, I guess. Also they need more tan plates. I have 2 gray humungus ones, 3 large green ones, 1 large blue one one tan large, two medium tans and a couple tiny greens. None are for sale.

[Aanchir]

The Lego co. has gotten cheap, therefore they don't make baseplates anymore. But you should still be able to buy them at Lego stores. If not than there's always eBay, I guess. Also they need more tan plates. I have 2 gray humungus ones, 3 large green ones, 1 large blue one one tan large, two medium tans and a couple tiny greens. None are for sale.

Cheap, or smart? It's a matter of perspective. Baseplates are large, specialized pieces that don't necessarily add much to a model-- often, regular plates will work just as well or better. For more detailed landscapes one can easily customize something with paint and paper or cardboard.

Yes, baseplates have their advantages. And TLG still makes them for many sets, like the modular buildings, several City sets, and individual plate packs like these. At the same time, we can't act as though baseplates are always a good thing for sets, or as though there aren't any advantages to using regular plates instead in many sets.

[bjoerk]

Sorry if this is blatant advertising for myself, but I consider it relevant, as if Lego hadn't stopped selling them for 1.77 GBP on Pick A Brick I wouldn't have to be doing this.

This is what I've posted in BSTF

There are some sellers in bricklink who sell it for 2€ but only in very low quantity i saw one seller who got a couple hundred of them who sold them at 3.14€wich is 2.77GBP And thats the cheapest seller who got a lot of them. So i guess prices in bricklink arent far of lego prices for this. But maybe you could look on bricklink and talk to some sellers maybe they want to give you better price cause you are buying 18 plates.

OT: i dont really use baseplates that often anymore. Since i mostly make fun fair rides wich pack on trucks so attaching them to a base plate kinda defeats the purpose. But i do like to use em for showing my mocs. Lego always looks better on a lego base plate then just on a kitchen table so i would miss if they would erase the base plates def if they gonna switch them for just brick roads. Brick roads are gonna consume lots of parts and are gonna be allot more expensive then just ordanaire base plates. But thats just my 2 cents

[RubeusHagrid]

There are some sellers in bricklink who sell it for 2€ but only in very low quantity i saw one seller who got a couple hundred of them who sold them at 3.14€wich is 2.77GBP And thats the cheapest seller who got a lot of them. So i guess prices in bricklink arent far of lego prices for this. But maybe you could look on bricklink and talk to some sellers maybe they want to give you better price cause you are buying 18 plates.

OT: i dont really use baseplates that often anymore. Since i mostly make fun fair rides wich pack on trucks so attaching them to a base plate kinda defeats the purpose. But i do like to use em for showing my mocs. Lego always looks better on a lego base plate then just on a kitchen table so i would miss if they would erase the base plates def if they gonna switch them for just brick roads. Brick roads are gonna consume lots of parts and are gonna be allot more expensive then just ordanaire base plates. But thats just my 2 cents

I've actually gone ahead and ordered my 18 at 2.51 GBP each from Lego. I'm just sore because until a couple of months ago they were on sale on PAB for 1.27 GBP. I did contact some BL sellers but none were willing to go below what Lego quoted...

[CaptainBermuda]

i guess baseplaes' #1 disadvantage is that they're slightly shorter than a plate so it can sometimes make building with them tricky.