Scaling of LEGO trains

[Tearloch33]

I just wanted to share this with everyone.

A question posed on another post brought up whether users would put the new Maesk train with the older BNSF train, due to the difference in length.

I did a bit of research, and here is what I found.

Assuming the width is set at 6 studs (or 10 ft) based on track gage, that sets a ratio of 1.67 ft per stud.

Maersk SD-40 dimensions are 6 studs by 38 studs. Actual SD-40 dimensions are 10 ft by 68 ft. That puts the to scale lego length at 40.8 studs.

BNSF GP-38 dimensions are 6 studs by 32 studs. Actual GP-38 dimensions are 10 ft by 59 ft. That puts the to scale lego length at 35.4 studs.

ATSF F-9 dimension are 6 studs by 30 2/3 studs. Actual F-9 dimensions are 10 ft by 50 ft. That puts the to scale lego length at 30 studs.

So the Super Chief has the best actual scale in terms of length vs. width of the 3 examined. The BNSF GP-38 could be easily extended to 34 studs by adding in better steps on the front and rear (similar to what the Maersk has). Extending the Maesk by 2 studs may be difficult since it already is extended well past the 28 stud long train base.

If you want to disgard the width scale, since it is set for current tracks, then the GP-38 and SD-40 scales are around 1.8 ft per stud. That would make the F-9 scale a bit long (should be 28 studs long). Since the nose section is 2 2/3 studs, this could be easily done by using the 6x24 red train base and extending it by 2 studs on the back in place of the 6x28 train base that the set comes with.

Is realism important to you?

Edited April 8, 2011 by Tearloch33

[greenmtvince]

Well if we're talking scale, your calculations are based on a "6-wide train" scale. It means minifigs are a scale 7-8 feet tall, but the proportions of the train itself short of the track widths are spot on.

Here's the alternate ways of looking at scale in LEGO trains:

From this LUGNET Post

You have 2 choices upon which to gauge your scale-- the height of the minifig or the track gauge (the distance between the rails). As John mentioned, a typical US train is about 10 feet wide, and standard track gauge is 4’ 8.5”, or about 5 feet (half of train width). Since the distance between the LEGO rails is 5 studs, that would put you, as again John noted, 1 stud = 1 foot, or 10 wide. This is the true scale using LEGO track gauge. That makes a minifig about 5 feet tall, and this would be perfect, except for the unfortunate reality that the LEGO wheels are terribly small at that scale, making 10 wide trains look rather funny.

So the question becomes how far do you want to deviate from the ideal proportions (not considering the wheel size issue). 8 wide scale says that a minifig is about 6 feet tall and the track gauge is a bit wider than standard, but the wheels are about spot on in terms of size, and again as John said, it is the best compromise if you are trying to build as “realistically” as you can.

[Tearloch33]

My calculations were using the assumption that you cannot change the gauge of the track, or the size of a minifig. Since LEGO makes all of their train products based on the 6 stud wide model, that is what I based it on.

[Legoist]

Is realism important to you?

Not at the level you're talking about :)

For me some realism is necessary, but scales go immediately out of the window as soon as you see the minifigs: they aren't adult people, they are 2 years old children playing adults (with postiche or painted beards), and therefore in a certain way the world around them has to have some goofy proportions ;)

[dr_spock]

Realism and to scale is not that important to me for Lego trains. If I want that, I'd continue with my HO scale model railroad.

[Toastie]

Is realism important to you?

Hi Tearloch,

it is not to me. All what matters to me is a "good feeling". I have "extended" all my trains, the FP7, the GP38, simply because "my" GP40 running an RCX on board needed an extended length to function at all.

Furthermore, I always had the impression (I did not do one single measurement or scaling calculation!) that the original model designs may fit in length/width but not in height. They appeared too tall to me at that length. Well the 6 wide scale is one thing, the curve radius another, and my "feeling" may very well mess up any realistic designs.

And finally: I love American diesels; I bet the designers of those monsters had a further thing in mind: Make their appearance right - strong that is. The sound of such a real diesel is matching the appearance very well. Have seen/heard them in Long Beach/LA, Kingman, and Denver. Man. I just build or modify my trains so that they resemble that feeling I had when 5 diesels started up to haul a more than a mile long cargo from Denver to who knows ...

Regards,

Thorsten

[LEGO Guy Bri]

This is very interesting 'Tearloch33' Good to know. How does this compare to 4-wide or 6-wide vehicles and the conversion to these engines height?

[Brickthus]

I chose to build to 8mm:1ft scale, which is approximately 1 stud to the foot. This is because my original aim was to exhibit LEGO trains at model railway shows, where scale is important. This was before I joined the LEGO community. In 1996 I was building 6-wide trains in 12V when I thought "real trains are wider than this", and so it began. Initially my 8-wide Class 47 loco was too short, so I lengthened it to make the 2nd build. It then changed livery for the 3rd build and is due another refresh!

Once I got some books from model railway shows, such as "British Main Line Diesel Locomotives", I was able to measure the 4mm scale drawings, double the sizes and reproduce the main dimensions to within about 6 inches (0.5 stud). Some locos I have built with a main body 8-wide but with accessories making up to the scale size. A few could be widened in the middle - for one, the width is 9'3" but tapered, so I might use some hinges to do that later. The beauty of LEGO modelling is that everything can be improved later!

The track gauge is 37.8mm, compared to 1435.1mm for the real gauge of many countries (some countries have multiple main line gauges). Of course in reality the gauge on curves is up to 10mm wider on the real railway for tolerance reasons. Ever wondered why LEGO trains drag in the curves?

With British trains, the train body size varies from 7 to 10-wide, but a scale build can be done. I put straights in between the curves on the layout, to widen the radius. This may benefit from ME models wider radii in due course, enabling faster running. If I built US trains, a typical boxcar is 10'5" wide, so the nearest dimension is 8-wide plus a non-studded brick (2 plates and a tile) on its side each side, depending how precise I chose to be for a particular model.

This is a choice. It takes more time, more bricks, more consideration of power, motors, clearances and slopes to build to scale. It becomes more like model engineering. I'm still happy with the results, and model railway enthusiasts are surprised too, especially when they can't tell it's LEGO!

Mark

[Captain Green Hair]

I like to have a bit of accuracy in the scale of the models I build, but not to the extreme.

For instance I think a train should be wider (8-10) then a truck (6-8) then a car. (4-6)

I do like to make them slightly bigger, as it allows more detail in the models.

So I made a bit of realism simple for myself.

[jaster]

Extending the Maersk by 2 studs may be difficult since it already is extended well past the 28 stud long train base.

Don't use the train baseplate and make an appropriately long one out of plates. Also note that the Maersk train should have C-C trucks (three axles) not B-B (two axle) trucks. Nor should it (or the other cars in set) have buffers.

[Andy Glascott]

I'd love to build more to scale, but am limited by space (and a bit if a traditionalist!) so stick to 6 wide, which definitely limits ability to detail a loco. However, it is possible to get a reasonable representation. (Others have got better results than me as well, Bricktrix being a good example.)

That said, keeping to 6-wide means my MOCs fit in with my vintage 7740 and 7745 12v sets and the classic Metroliner, which are all part of my layout.

Andy

[lightningtiger]

8 wide for me, I tried 6 wide......in humble Lego City stuff I like, my MOC engines are and will continue to be 8 wide. Better scale and you can do more work plus the detailing is easier to do.

Brick On Everyone !

[Tearloch33]

Don't use the train baseplate and make an appropriately long one out of plates. Also note that the Maersk train should have C-C trucks (three axles) not B-B (two axle) trucks. Nor should it (or the other cars in set) have buffers.

How do you tackle the issue of the gap between the custom base on the boogie plate on the trucks. The thing I like about the molded bases is how the bottom is recessed, allowing the boogie plate to be essentially hidden from sight, as well as limiting how far the trucks can turn (still within capacity of TLG curves)? I tried a custom base once and it looked odd.

[Dan-147]

How do you tackle the issue of the gap between the custom base on the boogie plate on the trucks. The thing I like about the molded bases is how the bottom is recessed, allowing the boogie plate to be essentially hidden from sight, as well as limiting how far the trucks can turn (still within capacity of TLG curves)? I tried a custom base once and it looked odd.

Not using the one-piece bases is fine for North American locos as they ride high on their trucks. Unless you use the new yellow bogie plates, they just tend to blend in with the structure. For freight cars, that is another matter. They usually ride pretty low on their trucks. However, LEGO wheelsets,although great for modelling European rolling stock, don't work very well with North American freight cars as these almost universally use one-piece trucks that are very distinctive. For the trucks, I've converted to a variant of Cale Liephart's design (Instructions on Railbricks, bottom of page). It works very well; the cars even ride one plate lower than with one piece bases. Plus you can have the length you want...

Edited April 13, 2011 by Dan-147

[jaster]

How do you tackle the issue of the gap between the custom base on the boogie plate on the trucks. The thing I like about the molded bases is how the bottom is recessed, allowing the boogie plate to be essentially hidden from sight, as well as limiting how far the trucks can turn (still within capacity of TLG curves)? I tried a custom base once and it looked odd.

I built a lot of my freight cars almost entirely upside down and use 1xnx1 panels to make the car sit lower. Here is an example: If you build wider than 6 studs there are infinitely many more solutions.

[SavaTheAggie]

Scale is very important to me, but not in a mathematical sense. I need everything I build to look right when placed next to one another.

Tony's Unifying Theory of LEGO by SavaTheAggie, on Flickr

I build 8 wide trains. I happen to build 1:48 scale, but that ended up being something I discovered after the fact.

http://www.railbricks.com/railblog-categories/other/163-math-can-be-fun

8 wide forever!

--Tony

[private_lego]

I always build on scale (wherever possible)

I build european trains. Passenger coaches are 3m x 26.4m (10ft x 88ft)

Lego scale 6x52 studs. Bigger is impossible because they can't go thru the curves.

The biggest problem is the size of the lego wheels. They are way to large in comparisson with the 1 stud = 0.5m (1.67ft).

So you get funny flat cars with big wheels or you have to increase the height of the coach with 1/3.

This makes the front of the coach to high to the width. Creating long and small coaches (which is standard for lego cars)

So the ideal way to build (my opinion) is 1 stud = 0.5m for the length of the trians and 8 studs width (6 studs base + 1/3 correction from the increased height)