[KEY TOPIC] LDD 4 Bugs and brick errors

[efferman]

Sounds like a simple solution. Thanks for explaining this.

[Lyichir]

Found a somewhat unusual (albeit minor) bug with part 3069, when building the Detective's Office.

Part One

Part Two

Obviously this bug doesn't affect much, since the collision volumes of the part seem to be A-OK. But it's a minor error that I imagine should be an easy fix.

[Superkalle]

Yupp, that was an odd one.

I tried some other bricks too, but none show this behavior.

[Stephan]

I found an error with part 6143 Brick Ø16 W. Cross, in combination with 40379 Tip Of The Tail Ø6,47:

Edited January 3, 2015 by Stephan

[Zerobricks]

I found an error with part 6143 Brick Ø16 W. Cross, in combination with 40379 Tip Of The Tail Ø6,47:

No collisions?

Like I always say, better to have no collisions than wrong existing ones.

[Stephan]

No collisions?

Like I always say, better to have no collisions than wrong existing ones.

That's true, but if you don't pay attention, and insert the tail piece too far, one of the two pieces will be deleted next time you open the model.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Stephan

[Superkalle]

I found an error with part 6143 Brick Ø16 W. Cross, in combination with 40379 Tip Of The Tail Ø6,47:

Well spotted. Besides lack of good collision volumes it also seem like the 3.2 mm bar connectivity field is a tad to long (only a few mm, but still) on the tail which permits it to "sink in" even further then necessary.

[Lyichir]

Found another error. The groove on part 15429 should be able to accept studs at any point along its height. This error prevents the completion of the Detective's Office set.

Example image

[Saberwing40k]

Another bug, part #6539 driving ring does not align correctly with part #6538 cross axle extension. The driving ring should have its teeth offset 45 degrees relative to the crossaxle it is mounted on, not in line with the axle.

In this picture, you can even see where the two parts intersect:

Edit: I'm back, with more bugs. There are a lot of parts even in the default LDD mode that are available in a color that the part is not actually made in. For instance, #2950 Trencher Shovel.

In real life, it is only available in black and yellow.

Also, with the part #92910, this happens:

Sometimes I really dislike LDD as it is, and wish that Lego would go with something that would piggyback off AutoCad or something.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Saberwing40k

[pbat]

There are several issues with different parts concerning connection, collision and geometry:

• The geometry of the 98100 2×2 Round Slope Brick W. Knob is somewhat inaccurate: If you put a connector peg like 43093 or 6562 all the way in the 98100's cross hole, you can't attach the result to a technic brick like 3700 due to a collision. If you, however, pull the peg out a bit to avoid that collision, the 98100 won't attach smoothly to the technic brick: There remains a tiny gap between the 98100 and the 3700. It seems as if the cross hole of the 98100 is not stepless and the step increment too big to achieve convenient results. See set 40146 for an example.
  Of course you can circumvent that issue by doing some scaffolding magic with parts like 2540 and 48729, but the behaviour of cross axles and cross holes in general should be not that obvious coarsely descrete, but at least pretend continuity.
  By the way, the appearance of the pegs 43093 and 6562 could use some overhaul with regards to sharp corners: Donate those parts some more polygons to make them look more realistic! In LDD, both parts are indistinguishable. In real life, however, 43093 has some friction elements 6562 has not. And on both parts the cross axles are softly rounded and by no way form a 90˚ angle at the end like they do in LDD.
   
  
• A pair of snowshoes (11187 but also 30284) put back to back should fit into any knob or hollow stud. See for example set 10246.
   
  
• The bricks without pin 3005, 3065, 3066, 3067, 2453 and 2454 have incorrect collision boxes since they do not allow any parts in their inside, even if there would be no collision. So you can't for example put a 85861 under any of the aforementioned bricks and put any of the following parts through it: Shafts, light sword blades, sticks etc. like 87994, 30374, 4095, 63965, 3957, 30064. There are, however, some exceptions: 3755 behaves correctly, presumably due to its open studs.
  The same is partly true for some bows like 3307 or 15254: They allow sticks inside their bow, e.g. as needed in set 6259, but not inside their studless parts left and right of their bow.
  The half bows (2339, 14395, 76768) on the other hand have collision boxes being too strict and thus preventing constructions valid in real life.
   
  
• The cream on the pie 93568 is both stainable and has a decoration surface.
   
  
• Although it has no stud ontop, the cupcake 97784 a.k.a. M4 misses a connection point on the top side and should accept round 1×1 plates like 6141 or 85861 inside it. See for example set 3184.
  

[Superkalle]

Found another error. The groove on part 15429 should be able to accept studs at any point along its height. This error prevents the completion of the Detective's Office set.

Good one

Another bug, part #6539 driving ring does not align correctly with part #6538 cross axle extension. The driving ring should have its teeth offset 45 degrees relative to the crossaxle it is mounted on, not in line with the axle.

Edit: I'm back, with more bugs. There are a lot of parts even in the default LDD mode that are available in a color that the part is not actually made in. For instance, #2950 Trencher Shovel.

In real life, it is only available in black and yellow.

Also, with the part #92910, this happens:

Sometimes I really dislike LDD as it is, and wish that Lego would go with something that would piggyback off AutoCad or something.

The driving ring was a good find. I thought it was all fixed with the last update, but apperantly not

The many un-released colors is because TLG internally has defined/used those colors at one time. Could either be for LEGOland usage or for test models. But it is a "bug" in the sense that it should be possible for the LDD Team to do a better job of screening out these colors.

I had a look at a physical 92910, and it looks like the one in LDD has incorrect geometry, and so consequently the collision volume is also wrong.

There are several issues with different parts concerning connection, collision and geometry:

• The geometry of the 98100 2×2 Round Slope Brick W. Knob is somewhat inaccurate: If you put a connector peg like 43093 or 6562 all the way in the 98100's cross hole, you can't attach the result to a technic brick like 3700 due to a collision. If you, however, pull the peg out a bit to avoid that collision, the 98100 won't attach smoothly to the technic brick: There remains a tiny gap between the 98100 and the 3700. It seems as if the cross hole of the 98100 is not stepless and the step increment too big to achieve convenient results. See set 40146 for an example.
  Of course you can circumvent that issue by doing some scaffolding magic with parts like 2540 and 48729, but the behaviour of cross axles and cross holes in general should be not that obvious coarsely descrete, but at least pretend continuity.
  By the way, the appearance of the pegs 43093 and 6562 could use some overhaul with regards to sharp corners: Donate those parts some more polygons to make them look more realistic! In LDD, both parts are indistinguishable. In real life, however, 43093 has some friction elements 6562 has not. And on both parts the cross axles are softly rounded and by no way form a 90˚ angle at the end like they do in LDD.
   
  
• A pair of snowshoes (11187 but also 30284) put back to back should fit into any knob or hollow stud. See for example set 10246.
   
  
• The bricks without pin 3005, 3065, 3066, 3067, 2453 and 2454 have incorrect collision boxes since they do not allow any parts in their inside, even if there would be no collision. So you can't for example put a 85861 under any of the aforementioned bricks and put any of the following parts through it: Shafts, light sword blades, sticks etc. like 87994, 30374, 4095, 63965, 3957, 30064. There are, however, some exceptions: 3755 behaves correctly, presumably due to its open studs.
  The same is partly true for some bows like 3307 or 15254: They allow sticks inside their bow, e.g. as needed in set 6259, but not inside their studless parts left and right of their bow.
  The half bows (2339, 14395, 76768) on the other hand have collision boxes being too strict and thus preventing constructions valid in real life.
   
  
• The cream on the pie 93568 is both stainable and has a decoration surface.
   
  
• Although it has no stud ontop, the cupcake 97784 a.k.a. M4 misses a connection point on the top side and should accept round 1×1 plates like 6141 or 85861 inside it. See for example set 3184.
  

Plenty of good finds here.

The pie topping is and odd one, because the "decoration" tool is behaving like the picker tool on it, i.e. with the fading/flashing color change when holding the picker tool mouse pointer over it. Not sure what's going on with that one.

As for open studs, I hadn't thought about the fact that the 3755 is the only one with hollow cavity, but it's probably like you say because of the 3.2 mm holes in the studs. As for the 3245 (1x2x2) it used to have a holder for a cross axle in the underside, but in later molds it was removed (but maintaining the same DesignID as with many similar examples). One could possibly argue that that brick should have a cavity so that at least one could scaffold an x-axle in place.

[suenkachun]

In the Regular Mode of LDD, you can find Train Tracks whoch split into two (Parts 75541 and 75542). However, the "Control Switch" (Part 2866, usually in "Bright Yellow" in reality) which needs to come with these two Tracks is only found in LDD Extended. Shoudn't a Bright Yellow one therefore be provided in the Regular Mode? Also, more types of Train Tracks should be added as in reality, there are more types of Train Tracks than just the basic Straight, Curved and Split found in LDD. Next, something which I've noticed about the animals. Most of them (such as the Cats, Dogs and Birds) have no facial expressions in the Regular Mode, so I had to decorate some of their faces in LDD extended, then switch back to the Regular Mode and continue building. However, not all animals have facial expressions which you can add to them, with two exceptions being the Cats (Part 13786) and Kittens (Part 6251). For the Kittens, the "Medium Nought" Kitten has a plain version and one with a facial expression but all the other Kittens are blank. Shouldn't all the animals default to include their facial expressions in the Regular Mode? Finally, in the Regular Mode of LDD, how come the new 1x2 Profile Brick Single Gro. (Part 98283) has six colours while the new 1x4 Profile Brick Single Gro. (Part 15533) is only in "Medium Nought"? And just asking, are there longer Profile Bricks of this kind? I've been using these Bricks as the outer wall of a House and having only 1x2 and 1x4 has resulted in a large number of Bricks. Thank you for everyone's attention.

[Saberwing40k]

I've also noticed that certain parts are duplicated in extended mode, and part #98389 in standard mode is the wrong color, and has no printing. Also, for some reason, in standard mode, part #12888 Chihuahua dog is available both with, and without deco, with no change in color. Same thing with part #95327 Small Ape. As mentioned above, for some reason, a lot of animal parts are missing printing.

[Nachapon Lego]

Also, with the part #92910, this happens:

http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=47953&st=700#entry2095713

Some of the collision bugs can be temporary fix using precise move trick.

fixed LXF : http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/nachapon/94UCSSSD/22_fix_9291.lxf

Edited January 7, 2015 by bbqqq

[Phoxtane]

There's a collision error between these two parts, whose names/part numbers I am having trouble remembering:

I've included both images to help highlight the parts in question!

[suenkachun]

I'm not sure if this is a bug after all, but LDD on my Laptop crashes when trying to opening my current project: https://www.dropbox.com/s/v4km0sgsb4r8zty/Mini%20Race%20Track.lxf?dl=0, where its file size is 420 KB. Here is what happens: after I open the file, LDD starts to load; but when it nearly finishes loading, LDD crashes or auto-terminates, so I simply can't open the file to continue building the project! I had a bigger file with a file size of 696 KB and it worked fine. The only special thing about this file is that it has very large dimensions, as its base consists of 32 48x48 Base Plates in a 4x8 arrangement, so the actual dimensions are 192x384 Bricks. I had a new topic on this: "LDD Issue related to the Graphics Card." and another user Zblj already tried to help me out, but experienced the same things even when running his LDD with all graphical options off, safe mode, etc.. My Laptop has an Intel HD Graphics 4400 with 32 MB of Dedicated Video Memory, and a NVIDIA GeForce 840M which I'm now using for running LDD. Any help from other users is greatly appreciated. Thank you for everyone's attention.

[pbat]

I had a bigger file with a file size of 696 KB and it worked fine. The only special thing about this file is that it has very large dimensions, as its base consists of 32 48x48 Base Plates in a 4x8 arrangement, so the actual dimensions are 192x384 Bricks.

We all know that size doesn't matter, do we? No, seriously: LXF files are nothing but zipped xml files, along with a png preview image. What makes LDD crash is not so much the size of these files, but the amount of polygons it has to render: Many bricks result in bigger XML, thus in a bigger LXF file, while polygons do no necessarily correlate with brick count: A synonym for "polygons" is "studs". And there are little parts having more studs (= more polygons) than a 48×48 baseplate. And if your file has as many as 32 of it, it is no wonder it will crash. although its brick count and thus its file size is relatively small. Similar issues have been discussed here on-again-off-again: See for example here and here and here.

So how can you fix it if LDD won't open that file any longer? You can try the following approach: Make a copy of your LXF file, rename its extension to "ZIP", unzip the zip file and open the contained LXFML file with a simple text editor like Notepad or whatever text editor you prefer. You'll see typical XML content: Look for a <Brick>-section with a "designID" of "4186" and delete or uncomment everything from the opening "<Brick>"-tag to the next closing "</Brick>"-tag. The "refID" may vary, but a "designID" of 4186 indicates a 48×48 baseplate. Save the file in your text editor, re-zip it, rename the ZIP extensions back to LXF and check if LDD still crashs. If yes, repeat the steps and delete some more baseplates.

[suenkachun]

Thank you for your help!

Edited January 7, 2015 by suenkachun

[Saberwing40k]

There's a collision error between these two parts, whose names/part numbers I am having trouble remembering:

To get the names of any bricks, in single select mode, just click on the brick in question, and the name and part number will display in the lower left corner of the screen, just to the right of the brick palette if you have that open. In your images, it would display where you have the parts count.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Saberwing40k

[Kalcifer]

Is this is a bug or also true of physical Lego?

Using version 4.3.8 on Mac OSX 10.10.1

The holes that pass through the side of Technic bricks are misaligned slightly higher than they should be, which causes an array of problems.

Red brick (87087):

Blue brick (6541):

Green bricks (3023):

To reproduce the bug take a 1x1 Technic brick (a 1x1 brick with a hole that passes through the side) and a non-Technic ('normal') 1x1 brick with a knob/stud on the side, attach the vertical knob/stud of the normal brick to the vertical hole of the Technic brick and you should immediately notice that normal brick is very slightly higher than the technic brick, this is the same when the normal brick is rotated 90°. This bug can be replicated with two Technic bricks and a connector peg with a knob/stud (4272), however the misalignment is only apparent when one of the bricks is rotated 90°.

[Zerobricks]

Yes that is normal and also present in real bricks.

[Kalcifer]

Yes that is normal and also present in real bricks.

Could you explain why the discrepancy is there (is it a legacy issue or there for mathematical reasons for example)?

Edited January 22, 2015 by Kalcifer

[Gnac]

Could you explain why the discrepancy is there (is it a legacy issue or there for mathematical reasons for example)?

This PDF explains the reason (and has a lot of other useful info):

http://bramlambrecht.com/tmp/jamieberard-brickstress-bf06.pdf

[Toa_Of_Justice]

I'm having some problems with 1st-generation TECHNIC fairings.

^ click for larger picture ^

LXF File

Key:

Red (6590, 75535) = only inserts into blue fairings

Yellow (32527, 32528) = fairing only accepts green pieces

Green (32123, 6538, 59443, 62462, 72504, 71985, 71917, 71986, 71923, 72039, 43675) = can be inserted into any fairing

Blue (32534, 32535, 32188, 32189, 32190, 32191) = fairing accepts red and green pieces

Black (axles, pins, connectors, etc.) = scaffolding I used to align the tube-shaped elements in the fairings

If I recall correctly, these construction techniques are used in some TECHNIC and TECHNIC-based Racers sets from 1999 onwards. They're also used in the in-game-only vehicles from the Drome Racers video game, which I am in the process of replicating here. Being able to place bushings (6590) into the yellow fairings would help to make my models as accurate as possible, though I suppose I could use two half-bushings (32123) in the meantime. I wish there were connection points to place the corrugated tubes in the fairings' slots though.

In addition, the three longest flex rods (of lengths 14 [32201], 16 [32202], and 19 [32235]) are not flexible yet. Hence my need to use flex cables rather than flex rods in the Torq Racer.

[mzoli]

30374 connects with 6587, 4589 connects with 6587, 30374 connects with 4589. But you can't connect these 3 parts together. (LDD removes one of them reopening the file)