[KEY TOPIC] LDD 4 Bugs and brick errors

[Lyichir]

Found another minor error! This one shouldn't need a picture. Part 98284 (Plate Round 2x2 w. vertical shaft) lacks connectivity with the top of 15395 (Dome 2x2, inverted w. one stud). It's not a huge issue since the part can be floated into place fairly easily, but there should be a registered connection.

[Classicsmiley]

Found another minor error! This one shouldn't need a picture. Part 98284 (Plate Round 2x2 w. vertical shaft) lacks connectivity with the top of 15395 (Dome 2x2, inverted w. one stud). It's not a huge issue since the part can be floated into place fairly easily, but there should be a registered connection.

98284 also won't connect to the top of 2489 (Barrel 2x2).

[Aanchir]

Something I've come across with the new Hero Factory armor (15339) is that the armor is slightly thicker than the amount the minifigure head is raised when equipped with a torso accessory. This results in certain headgear colliding with the armor that wouldn't collide in real life, such as 15344, which requires the head to be raised slightly to snap on securely. This problem is not limited to new parts, either. 85961, 71151, and 15344.

I was thinking about this problem and how it might be solved. The easiest solution, though not the most accurate, would be to fudge the collision boundaries of the headgear that collides. But I realized — wouldn't it be better if instead of the neck stud having a predetermined connection point for heads when a neck accessory is attached, the top of the neck accessory were recognized as a connection point? I know that in real life, the head is attaching to the neck stud and not the neck accessory. But doing this could potentially solve many problems. Not only would the boundaries of the minifig head and headgear no longer overlap with parts like 15339, but there would no longer be a big gap between the head and paper-thin capes like 10904, 42450, 50231, 56630, 12857, 99464, and 97690. Furthermore, this would let certain neck accessories be stacked, such as for figs like like the Space Police commander.

Alternatively, the neck stud on a minifigure could be treated like a Technic axle, allowing connections all along its length. However, this would not allow for such minute differences in height as between certain accessories.

Anyway, another problem is that the Stormer minifigure's helmet (15345) and armor (15339) collide. since the head has to be raised a full .8mm (a quarter of the thickness of a LEGO plate) from its default position for the helmet to attach without colliding, and at that point a connection between the neck stud and head is no longer recognized. In real life the helmet should fit even with the head pressed all the way down. I believe the knobs on the sides of the helmet are colliding with the armor's "collar", which they shouldn't do.

[Malidctus]

I found a couple, both of them from the Galactic Enforcer set (5974):

One shows up on Page 11 of Instruction Book 2. I'm instructed to place down 5 6x8 plates (3036), with the front-most one lying over a pin connector with 4 Pins used to hold the support structure together. The pin connector is lying on its side one "level" below the plate, and there should be enough clearance for both pats. I know this for a fact, because I own the Galactic Enforcer and I've built it before. However, LDD believes that the pin connector is wider than it actually is and in so doing prevents me from putting the 6x8 plate over it. I had to replace the element in LDD with two long connector pegs (6558) so the model could be built.

The other shows up earlier, on Page 29 of Instruction Book 1. Several pages ago (on page 26) I was instructed to secure two panel fairings (64391 and 64685 for left and right respectively) to two double-pin bricks (30526). On the actual Page 29, I'm instructed to place two 8x2x2 sloped bricks (41766) one level "above" the fairings. In real life, the sloped bricks lie just above the fairings themselves, touching them but applying no pressure. LDD did not allow me to do this, and in fact forced me to replace the double-pin bricks with a 1x1 brick (3005) and 1x1 brick with a hole (6541), connecting to the fairing by just one friction peg (2780). This meant I could tilt the fairing down by as little as 1 degree (it sits at 89 degrees now), making enough room for the sloped brick. Unfortunately, this leaves the fairing itself loose and prone to spinning freely and is inferior to the original design.

[Malidctus]

And here's another one:

The 8x6x2 cockpit window 98102 incorrect collision which extends farther "back" than the cockpit itself. When trying to recreate the Vermin Vaporizer (70704), it's impossible to put the window down to where the set requires it to go (as per page 66 of the manual), because the window collides with the wall it's attached to. It Visually, there's no reason why the bubble should collide, so this seems like an error. Now I have to redesign the cockpit because of this.

[Lyichir]

I found a couple, both of them from the Galactic Enforcer set (5974):

One shows up on Page 11 of Instruction Book 2. I'm instructed to place down 5 6x8 plates (3036), with the front-most one lying over a pin connector with 4 Pins used to hold the support structure together. The pin connector is lying on its side one "level" below the plate, and there should be enough clearance for both pats. I know this for a fact, because I own the Galactic Enforcer and I've built it before. However, LDD believes that the pin connector is wider than it actually is and in so doing prevents me from putting the 6x8 plate over it. I had to replace the element in LDD with two long connector pegs (6558) so the model could be built.

The other shows up earlier, on Page 29 of Instruction Book 1. Several pages ago (on page 26) I was instructed to secure two panel fairings (64391 and 64685 for left and right respectively) to two double-pin bricks (30526). On the actual Page 29, I'm instructed to place two 8x2x2 sloped bricks (41766) one level "above" the fairings. In real life, the sloped bricks lie just above the fairings themselves, touching them but applying no pressure. LDD did not allow me to do this, and in fact forced me to replace the double-pin bricks with a 1x1 brick (3005) and 1x1 brick with a hole (6541), connecting to the fairing by just one friction peg (2780). This meant I could tilt the fairing down by as little as 1 degree (it sits at 89 degrees now), making enough room for the sloped brick. Unfortunately, this leaves the fairing itself loose and prone to spinning freely and is inferior to the original design.

The first issue you mention comes from the fact that the fact that, purely geometrically, that WOULD be an illegal connection. Technic bricks have their pins/axle holes raised to a certain level to allow for studs to attach to the underside of the bricks. Normally, this only affects trying to attach things to Technic holes studs-first, since "studless" Technic beams are thin enough to fit under bricks without colliding (slightly thinner than one module). However, parts like 48989 are a full module thick due to the perpendicular Technic holes, meaning that it technically should collide in such a scenario. The reason why it doesn't in real-life is that a Technic pin connection like the one on 48989 is loose enough that the pin can sit slightly lower in the Technic axle hole and keep the parts from being stressed. You can't do this on LDD, but you CAN artificially raise the plates placed over this part by attaching a 1x1 Technic brick with hole on the level of the other Technic bricks, attaching a regular 1x1 brick with side stud to that, and attaching all the plates to that 1x1 with side stud, rather than actually attaching them to the Technic bricks.

The second issue you mention appears to be a legitimate boundary error. It seems to be a problem with the very tip of the Technic panel, since bricks can attach atop points further away from the tip with no issue.

[Malidctus]

Thank you for the explanation. I'm not very well aware of the specifics of Lego construction, personally, so this is very much appreciated. I found a few more, actually, this time on a set I don't own a physical copy of - the MX-81 Hypersonic Operations Aircraft:

The first one shows up on Page 52 of Book One. The previous several pages have asked me to create a fairly large structure which I need to attach "vertically" to some Technic pegs. It's difficult to explain, but the way the thing is designed has two half-peg/half-axle things (43039) fit inside two 15-hole Technic beams (64871). Directly behind the beams is a stack of several blocks. The structure also has a couple of 1x4 plates (3710) underneath it, supposedly coming down to the same "level" as the half-axel things. I presume it works in real life since it's in an actual real set manual, but it doesn't work in LDD. The lower plate collides with the block wall when you attempt to place the structure. In this case, the solution was simple - I removed the lower 1x4 plate and the thing fit like a glove. In fact, I have to wonder why the lower plate is even there, since it doesn't seem to serve any real purpose.

The other shows up on Page 43 of Book Two. The previous page had me build a "windshield" structure, complete with a white shell (45705). That's the part with the actual issue, because the manual next asks me to lower this down on top of a triangular sail-looking thing (51000). The idea is that the narrow tip of the sail thing would fit into the hollow "inside" of the shell... Except it doesn't. Purely visually in LDD, it's clear that there's plenty of room in there, but the shell's collision box doesn't seem to acknowledge the piece's internal space, treating it like it has a solid flat bottom. I solved this by bending the sail thing "inwards," which allowed me to bring the shell down as far as the manual would want, but even then the shell was colliding with nothing at the far reach of its pivot.

There was one other one, but upon revision, it turns out that was my fault. Oops!

[kamos]

I believe that 85861 is somehow broken...

Please look at these pictures first.

(Note: Dimensions of all these pictures are approx. "2000 x 1300" because I didn't know whether it would be visible on approx. "800 x 600" so I purposely made them large. Also that's the reason why they are linked.)

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How to do it

By using "technique" seen in last picture we can place 85861 (gray) through the snap on these bricks (red): 2476, 4729, 2458, 6232, 6249, 30000, 41532, 32054. And yes, this shouldn't be possible.

Remember when I reported that 85861 can go inside 71137 / 40620? It seem that it can be done with more bricks...

Posted image (in the picture: 2566 back, 74698 middle left, 32530 middle right, 11090 front)

Also it works with bricks like 10197, little bit into 6536 ....

Geometry (collision box?) of the bottom ring / hole (that connects to stud) on 85861 isn't the best.

Collision error on (from left to right) 30367, 6143, 92947, 43898, 11213.

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Several Technic pieces can go (a little bit) inside above mentioned bricks. Notice that tiny red part sticking out of that gray 32123 bush.

32123 Bush can be inserted way too inside the 30324 Wheel.

Posted image (Close up)

In the picture, there are two 32123 bushses. Green, which is correcly placed and red that normally shouldn't go inside past the green one.

None of them will LDD recognize as collision error.

Link to lxf file

[Superkalle]

Wow...that is a very thourough report.

No discussion there is something that needs to be fixed with the collision boxes

[Toa_Of_Justice]

The new scrolling decoration palettes only work for less than a minute before scrolling stops responding. In addition, the mouse wheel cannot be used to scroll in these palettes.

-Toa Of Justice

[kangmingjie]

The new scrolling decoration palettes only work for less than a minute before scrolling stops responding. In addition, the mouse wheel cannot be used to scroll in these palettes.

-Toa Of Justice

I have the same issue.

[Superkalle]

@Toa and kangmingjie (and everyone else): I'd report these kind of software specific related bugs also to LEGO Customer Services. In my experience it gets some extra impact when coming through that channel.

As for this specific issue, I remember it being present also in the previous LDD brickset/version. Maybe it got worse though because of all the new decorations in this brickset?

[Bob De Quatre]

The new scrolling decoration palettes only work for less than a minute before scrolling stops responding. In addition, the mouse wheel cannot be used to scroll in these palettes.

*snip*

-Toa Of Justice

It's very annoying...

And the fact that parts in the palette are often too smal it's impossible to really see what the decoration are

[weavil]

It's very annoying...

And the fact that parts in the palette are often too smal it's impossible to really see what the decoration are

That's why I somethimes I hook the computer to the TV. The decoration s do get bigger, depending on the size of the TV. Also with a normal monitor, if it is big enough, you can change the resolution and it will make every thing bigger, but the decoration s will be bigger, then change it back when you found the one you need.

[Toa_Of_Justice]

I just contacted LEGO Customer Service regarding the decoration palette scrolling issue. They told me it's a known issue and that the Digital Development team is working on it. One workaround I found with the current version of LDD is to switch to the standard LDD theme, without hiding colors. I can scroll faultlessly through the decorations in the brick palette, pick an element, then switch back to the LDD Extended theme and paint the element in another color.

-Toa Of Justice

[Lyichir]

Found a new part error, and it's a doozy. Part 15706's geometry is completely wrong—specifically, the longer cross-bar between the two angled plates is far too wide. It prevents bricks and plates being attached between the angled plates, as in this pic. I checked and the connection would work in real life, and it is used in set 70728 Battle for Ninjago City (Step 7 of instruction booklet 1).

Edited June 4, 2014 by Lyichir

[Aanchir]

Another Ninjago-related part error: when trying to assemble General Cryptor (a minifigure that appears in three Ninjago sets this year), the headgear (design ID 15616) collides with the armor (design ID 15618).

[Zerobricks]

If you have 85861 1x1 round brick with hole on any other brick and you put any bar-shaped brick in it, it will allow the bar-shaped brick to embedd in the brick under the round brick...Causing you to get that brick deleted.

[RoddyMac]

I have been working on a Fire Station MOC & I have come accross a bug that I have checked in some older models to see if it happen within them.

Part 4599 (http://www.bricklink...Item.asp?P=4599) Tap diameter 4.9/6.4 will not attach to Minifigure hands, in the older models it comes up as a misplaced brick & removes them.

I have been able to position them using 'scafolding'.

[Superkalle]

I have been working on a Fire Station MOC & I have come accross a bug that I have checked in some older models to see if it happen within them.

Part 4599 (http://www.bricklink...Item.asp?P=4599) Tap diameter 4.9/6.4 will not attach to Minifigure hands, in the older models it comes up as a misplaced brick & removes them.

I have been able to position them using 'scafolding'.

I think I know the reason for that.

If you place a normal clip onto the tap, it should not attach any further then the lowest portion. If you place it higher up, the area highlighted in blue in the picture, would force the clip to bend apart, and that is an illegal technique since it would force the clip to brake eventually. When this limitation was added, it seems the Minifig-hands got included too, and maybe they shouldn't.

[Aanchir]

The ball cup on parts 15976 and 15367 cannot fit on a ball with guides (like the center ball on parts 90626 and 90605).

[Alasdair Ryan]

Hello all,while I was on LDD today I found that the axle (5) when rotated and placed through a offset connecter was inter-meshing with the connecter.

Is this a known bug?

[Zerobricks]

Your connector is misalligned... See the bush and they empty space on top?

[Alasdair Ryan]

Yes there is a small gap,but that is were it snaps too.

The other side is alined and fitted correctly.

Download file

[mzoli]

Yes there is a small gap,but that is were it snaps too.

The other side is alined and fitted correctly.

Download file

I've checked your file. As Zblj suggested, move the Cross Block and the Bush a bit up and everything will be connected.

Edited June 10, 2014 by mzoli