Has anyone ever sold any of their MOCs?

[mahjqa]

Sorry, but I think you got robbed :)

Meh. I made a decent profit on material costs, and I've already rebuilt it. I'm not worse off.

[jerba]

I doubt your kids will be able to recoup the cost of the pieces they are selling or even enough to buy new sets. If my kids were as intent on selling as you say, I'd load it on eBay with a relatively decent Buy It Now price and when they were away I'd buy it from them. Then I'd have them go through the motions of having them pack it carefully and send it off to an address such as my office. I'd turn over the money to them and let them be happy.

The LEGO would then occupy my desk at work, or sit in storage for a while as I slowly put the pieces back into their collection without them noticing.

On the other hand, it may be an low cost (hopefully) lesson on cost analysis and to teach them to think things through when they regret selling their creations!

[TechnicJuan]

Jerba, that is a great idea Meatman you may want to ty that. I think You will probably just have to pay a few dollars for Ebay to list. I have never sold anything on Ebay before, so I don't know how it works. Also, I am not sure what Paul meant by "They are probably working on a similar design" that is just what he posted at his blog in the comments, so I don't know if that is the exact answer he got or not.

Nico, did you sell that model that you were offered 700 for? It seems that you could have made some nice money from it. Also if you have 200 offers from people that want to buy your models, you should consider doing something as soon as possible. Also, what do you mean about the copyright with Lego and selling ideas? How are these other people doing it? Is it technically illegal to actually sell custom kits? Brickmania sells custom kits, do they have some special agrrement with Lego?

[designer-han]

Jerba, that is a great idea Meatman you may want to ty that. I think You will probably just have to pay a few dollars for Ebay to list. I have never sold anything on Ebay before, so I don't know how it works. Also, I am not sure what Paul meant by "They are probably working on a similar design" that is just what he posted at his blog in the comments, so I don't know if that is the exact answer he got or not.

Nico, did you sell that model that you were offered 700 for? It seems that you could have made some nice money from it. Also if you have 200 offers from people that want to buy your models, you should consider doing something as soon as possible. Also, what do you mean about the copyright with Lego and selling ideas? How are these other people doing it? Is it technically illegal to actually sell custom kits? Brickmania sells custom kits, do they have some special agrrement with Lego?

Interesting conversation to read...

1) Selling MOC's of someone else:

I don't have a problem if people rebuild my designs and sell it. Yes, it would be nice if they mentioned my name as credit.. but everyone who buys such a MOC will need the building instructions. That's why I made a background/footnote on every page with the 'copyright design, my web name and real name, and the Lego disclaimer' on it. So, it's absolutely no doubt who is the real designer.

Basically, this is what will happen if you share 'on the web'... and you know it in advance.

2) Selling MOC's for a profit?

I don't think so. I have been in touch with webshops who like to sell my designs.... but until know it never worked out. Reasons are: it takes a significant investment to have multiple sets on stock. People don't want to wait 4-6 weeks after an order (so that the webshop could collect all necessary bricks in the meantime). As example the Dump Truck: 2500 parts; assume 100 euro/dollar to get all the parts (I think it's an under estimation) means an investment of 1.000 euro/dollar for just 10 sets. 100 sets, 10.000 euro/dollar.

And, these sets are not for kids, not for their parents for Christmas to spend. So, are there 1.000 AFOLS out-there which want to buy it? I think most of the AFOLS who rebuild such a set will only buy 20% on Bricklink, the other 80% bricks they already have.

Time: it takes a huge effort for collecting all the bricks for making up a set. The dumptruck has 14 wheels. Most webshops can only deliver <100 wheels, meaning 6-7 sets. And, some bricks (pneumatics) are not widely available. So, if the hour-rate is taken into account, it will drive the set-price up.

My belief is that only one company can deliver quanties, and that's TLC. I think if TLC manages it to improve LDD, AND have a fully automated warehouse for ordering picking per brick.... it could be possible to sell MOC's profitable (i.e. certain percentage per sold set for the designer).

3) Intellectual Property.

I investigated this. Legally you can sell your own MOCS. The essence is that the bricks in your MOC were already sold by TLC in the past. This means, that TLC can not judge you for selling it again (it's just 2nd hand). I checked this by lawyers. The only thing what is not allowed is that your use the Lego logo or make a reference to any other official Lego set, or that you use significant sub-models of an official Lego set (thus: use 8258 truck chassis, or just recolor an official set).

Curious to read your views on this.... Regards, Han

Edited July 24, 2010 by designer-han

[TechnicJuan]

Thanks for replying in this thread Designer-Han. Your work is Very Good! You had some very good input on this subject. I still do however feel it is wrong if someone sell someone's MOC without crediting them. I was reading over at crow's site and someone had asked him about how he can justify selling kits for over $400 and here was his reply. To be quite honest, I wouldn't even bother spending the time putting kits together if there is no money to be made.

Crowkillers said...

You do realize that I start the auctions at $1 and it is the Lego fans and collectors that are driving the price up right?

Anyways, I will break it down for you. First off in order to do a kit I have to order parts from all over the world from many different dealers. On average a Kit normally costs me between $250-$300 for parts and shipping, not to mention how many hours I spend browsing from one online store to another. The chroming of the wheels cost $40, then the set box is $3 and I also have to print up the covers and stickers and CD Rom inlay and then burn a CD, not to mention the 3 months that I spend developing the model. Then after it sells, I owe Ebay Over $40 for Fees and Paypal takes 4%

So if I sell a kit for $425, that doesn't leave very much room for profit does it? For some reason people see the Dollar signs and assume that I am just doing this for the money, but obviously that is not the case. I am trying to make it easier for everyone who really wants to build the model the opportunity to do just that.

The average person who would like to build this model from scratch would probably have to wait around a month after downloading the instructions, and ordering the parts because they will be waiting for their international part orders to come in. Then there is always the risk involved with ordering from other countries.

When a kit is purchased from me, all of these issues are taken care of and you can start building the car as soon as it gets to your house. I am just trying to get my design and model out to people, not retire from it.

Like I said before, I offered this design to Lego. It is up to them if they want to release it and make it available at a more affordable price.

-Paul

[vexorian]

1) Selling MOC's of someone else:

I don't have a problem if people rebuild my designs and sell it. Yes, it would be nice if they mentioned my name as credit.. but everyone who buys such a MOC will need the building instructions. That's why I made a background/footnote on every page with the 'copyright design, my web name and real name, and the Lego disclaimer' on it. So, it's absolutely no doubt who is the real designer.

Basically, this is what will happen if you share 'on the web'... and you know it in advance.

IMHO whenever you share instructions it is always a good idea to include a license. Specially if you say that something is copyrighted to you. (Since you don't include a license but include a copyright note, then I wouldn't be able to assume you are fine with people redistributing your instructions). If you include a copyright notice you need to also include a note about what are accepted uses, and whether other people can redistribute or modify your work.

I doubt your kids will be able to recoup the cost of the pieces they are selling or even enough to buy new sets. If my kids were as intent on selling as you say, I'd load it on eBay with a relatively decent Buy It Now price and when they were away I'd buy it from them. Then I'd have them go through the motions of having them pack it carefully and send it off to an address such as my office. I'd turn over the money to them and let them be happy.

The LEGO would then occupy my desk at work, or sit in storage for a while as I slowly put the pieces back into their collection without them noticing.

On the other hand, it may be an low cost (hopefully) lesson on cost analysis and to teach them to think things through when they regret selling their creations!

To be honest, I don't think that would be a good idea. Perhaps if you replace "Relatively decent" with "lower than bricklink's equivalent to the pieces' cost" and instead of giving their pieces back you keep the pieces/mocs for your own collection or do get rid of them through bl or something. Maybe then it would be a lesson. But most likely the kids will get extremely excited/greedy after the first "sale" and try again until they sell all their pieces so that they can get a new set (which they will try to resell as a MoC in the future).

I wouldn't let them go with it. I would discourage them by saying that they might regret losing their MoCs like that in the future or by saying that re-selling their toys is not allowed :/ . In the extreme case they still push with the idea, I would really tell them that assuming they manage to sell their MoCs they wouldn't sell that much. Yeah, it would break their hearts but sometimes it is necessary...

Or maybe if it is so easy for them to get rid of their MoCs then they don't really like LEGO that much but the novelty and it would be better to switch to an alternative until this phase ends.

Edited July 25, 2010 by vexorian

[jerba]

To be honest, I don't think that would be a good idea. Perhaps if you replace "Relatively decent" with "lower than bricklink's equivalent to the pieces' cost" and instead of giving their pieces back you keep the pieces/mocs for your own collection or do get rid of them through bl or something. Maybe then it would be a lesson. But most likely the kids will get extremely excited/greedy after the first "sale" and try again until they sell all their pieces so that they can get a new set (which they will try to resell as a MoC in the future).

That is a great point, you do not want them getting excited about selling more, thats for sure.

[flyz]

To Han:

I appreciate your time and effort in making excellent MOCs and then creating instructions for them. I currently have the dump truck and the trailer built and it's just simply amazing. I'm wondering how it look alongside 8043

Being in Canada and having to go through buying all the parts for Han's dump truck, I understand what Paul is doing for the AFOLs. It really is a pain in the megablocks to gather some rare parts off BL, especially if you're not in Europe.

[G1McKenzie]

I would never sell any MOC because i would regret it when i needed the pieces for another MOC.

The only way i would sell something is if someone asked to buy it, i would buy parts off of bricklink and rebuild it at their expense.

[trekman]

I was contacted by a man who offered purchase my JCB 456 Loader MOC. But he did not realise the effort involved with creating such a model. for a model to be sold, I think you need to have instructions etc, which I did not have. Also people can expect the reliability of official lego sets from a MOC. This is not always the case. My loader had pressure controlled compressors, and a lot of pnuematic circuits, and I knew how it all worked, so for me it was easy to repair, as I made it.

Some one purchasing an MOC only buys a showpiece, but misses out on the fun.

To me the best part of an MOC is the building and reworking of it. The using of it is when my son takes over.

[Fistach]

Although I didn't sell my MOC but one guy from Switzerland offered me 750 € for my telehandler:

Unfortunately it was alread disassembled.

[bord4kop]

I don 't sell my MOC 's

They 're not worth buying

I think the fun part is in building things, not selling them.

But if someone is offering me 750 US I will reconsider

[JunkstyleGio]

Anything is for sale!

(At the right price that is........)

[Alasdair Ryan]

...........................

[gotoAndLego]

1. Calculate to price to replace bricks used.

2. Make a virtual model so you can recreate it with new bricks

3. Add whichever markup you want

4. Make a profit without loosing anything.

[dhc6twinotter]

I would never sell any mocs. However, if I was asked to build a copy of one, I would gladly order the parts and make a duplicate copy to sell.

While at Brickfair this year, a couple people asked me if my Case articulating tractor was for sale. I said no.

[hoeij]

My kids built some things and want me to try and sell them on ebay, but I know that they are nothing that would really be worth selling. The main reason why they want me to sell their stuff is so they can get the new sets that have just been released.

You're right that the price for the MOC is usually lower than the price of the pieces. I bought an MOC train (an engine with a 12V motor) and paid $25 for it, which is about half of what just the motor by itself would sell for on bricklink. And this is despite the fact that the engine looks really neat (I bought it with the plan to disassemble it, but it is too nice to disassemble).

I've sold a few items (not MOC's but regular sets). The main reason for selling is not the $ but just to make some room! Tell your kids that the best thing about lego is creating things, and that most people on eBay want to create their own things. They should disassemble their things, and build something else while they are waiting for Santa.

[Meatman]

Nevermind with my last post. It appears that I was wrong

Edited December 13, 2010 by Meatman