Ideas for New Train Sets

[Duq]

On 6/16/2020 at 3:13 AM, Klaus-Dieter said:

I bet that if the Crocodile sells well (which I bet), then we'll see a steam locomotive with tender next year - maybe something similar to the Emerald Night, maybe something completely different like the Mallart.

In contrast, which concerns (additional) waggons I'm regrettably not that optimistic that we'll get some since TLG seems to want to release only an exclusive train set which you can use in an layout as well as only for displaying - and an engine with several waggons wouldn't fit lengthwise in a regular sized showcase ...

What do you think?

I'm afraid sales of the Crocodile are going to be massively disappointing, especially outside of Europe, and it will be years before we see another AFOL train. Waggons/ carriages are just not going to happen.

[Mr Hobbles]

1 hour ago, Duq said:

I'm afraid sales of the Crocodile are going to be massively disappointing, especially outside of Europe, and it will be years before we see another AFOL train. Waggons/ carriages are just not going to happen.

There's no one train that's gonna keep everyone happy.

European locomotive? Mainland Europe will love it, US/UK/Australia won't care.
UK locomotive (Mallard, Flying Scotsman, etc)? US and Europe wont care.
US locomotive (Big Boy, Amtrak?) Europe and UK won't care.

Going steam? Diesel/electric fans wont want it.
Going diesel/electric? Steam fans will hate it isnt a steam engine.

The proof is in the pudding with comments on sites like Brickset, which shows user location. US people are saying "I wish it was more well known", while Europeans are saying "I love the Crocodile!". Steam fans are saying "The Emerald Night is the best train Lego ever made. Why isn't it another steam engine."

Lego isn't stupid, they know this. They do market research. HUGE amounts of market research. They'll be taking this into account when determining a successful level of sales for this thing. Also bear in mind Europe is 55-60% of Lego annual sales. This also isn't an expensive model for them to produce - no new parts, just a few recolors, two prints, and a sticker.

On the other hand, I agree, separate wagons or cars/carriages aren't gonna happen. Maybe bundled with the next locomotive, if there is one. But not separate. And it'll likely be 2-3 years before another locomotive anyway, just because Lego will be waiting to see the sales of this thing, and the fact that it takes 6-24 months to develop a set from start to finish.

Myself? I'm a Scotsman living in America, who's had a lifelong fascination with Swiss railways, particularly the Rhatische Bahn, but also the SBB. Its like Lego has released a locomotive just for me. :) But I'm not silly enough to think everyone is like me. This has its market, and it isn't everybody.

Edited June 18, 2020 by Mr Hobbles

[Duq]

I know it's never going to be everybody's favourite, but look at Emerald Night? Based on a UK steam locomotive but fairly popular in both US and Europe. Problem with the croc is that it's so unusual looking. Plus, while brown is the original colour, it's a popular model in dark green on model railways, and in dark green it probably would have been a more interesting parts pack for non-train fans. In dark green I would definitely have bought one or two more for parts for an E94 for example.

By the way, I'm a Dutch guy living in Ireland building German train, but I have the English Emerald Night, the American Maersk and the French Horizon Express and will definitely buy the Swiss crocodile...

[TeriXeri]

Crocodile train shows the more unique development of railway material imo, since such trains were designed for specific parts of tracks, usually meant for steep inclines and sharp turns, certainly not a mainstream train but it's part of history of the transition to modern Electric trains.

Even so, Electromotors were just very big at that point, some of the first American electric trains resembled crocodiles as well except it was called Steeplecab design.

The first main line that was electrified https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltimore_Belt_Line used this in 1895:

Baltimore & Ohio electric engine:

 

This is more from the same era as the ce 6/8 : 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milwaukee_Road_class_ES-2 (1916)

Edited June 18, 2020 by TeriXeri

[cptkent]

The world is full of crocodiles, and variants of...

 

[cptkent]

On 3/29/2010 at 9:18 PM, Klaus-Dieter said:

Hello everybody!

Since it's now already some time ago that Trains got its own subforum and does no longer belong to the Town subforum, I thought that it surely would be very interesting and that it even would make sense to have a seperate topic about our ideas for future Train sets.

This topic should imo be very similar to the Ideas for new City sets topic - with the only difference that of course there may be even ideas for ancient trains, too, and not only for those directly belonging to the City theme.

But please note: This shall be no topic where pros, cons and possibilities of different types of train motors, tracks etc. are discussed - so no technical discussions but discussions.

So please post your ideas here! Comments and discussions are welcome!

Klaus-Dieter

How about a NASA train.... they have them...

LEGO has made:

•  Apollo Saturn 5 rocket
•  Apollo 11 lunar lander
•  Curiosity Rover
•  Numerous shuttles... even sets with trucks and planes carrying shuttles..

NASA railway employed the EMD SW1500:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_SW1500

Would suit me... even with a little rolling stock... make it an 18+ set, put it on a 'stand' like the crocodile. Done.

[zephyr1934]

On 6/17/2020 at 7:45 PM, Mr Hobbles said:

There's no one train that's gonna keep everyone happy.

Make any train in sand red and it will sell like crazy

[NotToScale]

9 minutes ago, zephyr1934 said:

Make any train in sand red and it will sell like crazy

LMS Princess Coronation Class?

Red (although I would prefer new dark red), iconic but also similar enough to several others that it wouldn't look out of place on many layouts?

Edited June 20, 2020 by NotToScale
Photo link not working.

[Vilhelm22]

3 hours ago, NotToScale said:

LMS Princess Coronation Class?

Red (although I would prefer new dark red), iconic but also similar enough to several others that it wouldn't look out of place on many layouts?

As a Brit, this is one of those trains that I really consider a beauty.  The West Coast version of the LNER Mallard (and the 34 other A4s).  However, unfortunately, I don’t see this as a likely choice because of how well known it isn’t.  I would love to see one, but I honestly don’t expect it at all.  And it’s also incredibly difficult to do at the nose - and those gold stripes would have to be printed at the nose.

We can only dream...

[BurkusCircus]

I know this will never happen, and they missed their opportunity to do so last year when it was first operated, but a Big Boy would be awesome. Too big for a set, though.

The Creator expert trains so far (excluding the Winter Village set), were/are 2 European Electrics (Crocodile and Horizon Express), American Diesel (Maersk), and British/European Steam (Emerald Night). So the one big area they're missing are American Steam. As for what could fit best within that category, no idea. Since the Molds for drivers appear to be in sets of 3, a NYC Hudson (4-6-4) would make sense, and probably is a close to wide-appealing as you could get. Only other contender would be a Hiawatha or Blue Comet, as most famous American steam engines have 8-driver bases (N&W J, Daylight, Big Boy, T1's of both the Reading and Duplex variety). So a NYC Hudson would be the next logical step.

On the City side of things, we've had an Asian Electric (4511 has just always looked Asian to me), 3 European Diesels (4512, 3677, and 60098), 2 Light Rail/Trams (in 8404 and 60097), an American Diesel (60052), and more European Electrics than sand in the earth (7897, 7898, 7938, 7939, 60051, 60197, 60198). So whatever comes next, it's probably a European Electric. I'd like to see a more modern American Diesel, maybe even modeled after one of the NS Heritage Units. Lackawanna, maybe?

As for what I want, I'd like to see a T1 Duplex Creator set for whenever the T1 Trust finishes 5550, and really any of the American Steam Engines I listed off above. As mentioned, maybe a modern Frieght Diesel, maybe in the Canadian National scheme? Also a real model of a Japanese bullet train would be cool.

And then, once all of the above is made, they can finally do an M-497.

[Duq]

The opportunity they missed last year was Jupiter and/or UP 119 for the 150th anniversary of the Golden Spike.

A Big Boy would be a bit much for a set so how about something more realistic that's typical American, like a Shay or Heisler geared steam engine?

And of course, since they did an updated version of the Sopwith Camel there's no reason they couldn't do an updated Santa Fe Super Chief...

@zephyr1934 Make anything in sand red and it'll sell...

[Matt Dawson]

I'd like to see a similar thing to "50 years on track" but about famous locomotives - maybe Coalbrookdale/Pen-y-Darren (first steam loco), Mallard (fastest steam loco), AGEIR boxcab (first mass-produced diesel-electric loco), TGV (fastest electric locomotive) and a Maglev (fastest rail vehicle). Educational, eye-catching and depending on scale/scope could be a reasonable price. 

[Pdaitabird]

Something like the USATC S160 Locomotive might have enough global appeal to make it as a set, as it was used in dozens of countries around the world in the post-war years.

[zephyr1934]

18 hours ago, BurkusCircus said:

The Creator expert trains so far (excluding the Winter Village set), were/are 2 European Electrics (Crocodile and Horizon Express), American Diesel (Maersk), and British/European Steam (Emerald Night). So the one big area they're missing are American Steam. As for what could fit best within that category, no idea. Since the Molds for drivers appear to be in sets of 3, a NYC Hudson (4-6-4) would make sense, and probably is a close to wide-appealing as you could get. Only other contender would be a Hiawatha or Blue Comet, as most famous American steam engines have 8-driver bases (N&W J, Daylight, Big Boy, T1's of both the Reading and Duplex variety). So a NYC Hudson would be the next logical step.

Don't forget the Disney train- had four flanged drivers and is an American steam locomotive. With the Superchief and BNSF licensed real US railroads, with the Maersk they licensed a long standing relationship (and reduced the "US"ness of the set and included a popular rare color), with EN... I always thought that was just some steam engine they dreamed up, come on, LRTS has nothing to do with LNER

 

18 hours ago, Duq said:

@zephyr1934 Make anything in sand red and it'll sell...

Shhh!!! Only a train

 

16 hours ago, Pdaitabird said:

Something like the USATC S160 Locomotive might have enough global appeal to make it as a set, as it was used in dozens of countries around the world in the post-war years.

Brilliant idea

[Vilhelm22]

I’m gonna support steam over diesel/electric most times.

If we get a US steam train, I realise the Big Boy is too big - is a Challenger? I also wouldn’t mind a UP FEF class locomotive - preferably in the grey/black paint scheme with the two yellow stripes as opposed to black.  A Mikado type would be welcome, and I’d love the SP Daylight locomotive.  One of my favourites is the Southern Crescent Limited - with the dark/sand green colour it’s perfect both for looks and parts.

(To be fair with US steam trains I’m extremely biased towards the ones I have in my inherited HO scale collection of 23 locomotives.)

Edited June 21, 2020 by Vilhelm22

[BurkusCircus]

4 hours ago, zephyr1934 said:

Don't forget the Disney train- had four flanged drivers and is an American steam locomotive. With the Superchief and BNSF licensed real US railroads, with the Maersk they licensed a long standing relationship (and reduced the "US"ness of the set and included a popular rare color), with EN... I always thought that was just some steam engine they dreamed up, come on, LRTS has nothing to do with LNER

Oh, I didn't realize the Disney Train was in the Creator line, though it was just in the Disney line.

As for the Emerald Night, it's pretty obviously European, imo. The Olive Green boiler with Elephant Ears and a Cream and Brown passenger car are basically the stereotypical British Steam Engine.

[Vilhelm22]

53 minutes ago, BurkusCircus said:

Oh, I didn't realize the Disney Train was in the Creator line, though it was just in the Disney line.

As for the Emerald Night, it's pretty obviously European, imo. The Olive Green boiler with Elephant Ears and a Cream and Brown passenger car are basically the stereotypical British Steam Engine.

Disney Train is, but tbh it’s sort of a separate thing, like the WV train.

EN is based on the LNER Flying Scotsman, as 60103 in its later years.  It was earlier numbered as 4472 and was a paler green.  However, those ‘elephant ears’ as you excellently called them, were only added when a double funnel was fitted to improve efficiency, and as a Brit I can tell you they aren’t common. These ‘ears’ are actually called smoke deflectors, and are rare in British locomotives in that rectangular shape.  A3s were updated to the double funnel later on, greatly increasing smoke and causing smoke deflectors to be a requirement.  Tall chimneys on others were a common alternative on new trains, and ones built with the deflectors from the start didn’t look the same.

Edited June 21, 2020 by Vilhelm22

[Matt Dawson]

If you were going to do something eye-catching as a US loco, you'd go for an early 4-4-0 or 4-6-0, for many reasons:

1. VERY common in films (e.g. Lone Ranger, BTTF, The General) and video games (e.g. Red Dead Redemption) - so well known and relatable.
2. you could produce one set with alternate funnel, dome etc. assemblies for "hot swapping" without too much issue. You could also do different road names/numbers.
3. Not as large as other locos (3/4 of Crocodile length inc tender) - so smaller set, smaller physical footprint...smaller price?
4. Could offer up additional item(s) (e.g. a boxcar) for motorisation, should LEGO wish to do down that route. Or maybe go down the "motor in the firebox/cab, battery box in the tender" route, although that's a VERY large battery box to hide...
5. Can model good outside cylinders without too much issue, including correct running gear.

I doubt we'll see anything like an Emerald Night again soon due to the compromises they made; admittedly, there's nothing saying they'd get an experienced steam builder in (e.g. Brick Model Railroader) in to do the mechanicals & running gear.

Edited June 22, 2020 by Matt Dawson

[Murdoch17]

I agree with @Matt Dawson: but with a old LEGO twist: what about an (accurate, AKA dark red wheels and cow catcher) rendition of the 4-6-0 Thatcher Perkins? (not my image, gotten from Wikipedia)

This engine was last seen in 1976 in the vintage large scale Hobby Theme as set 396, making it an older set than every mini-figure ever!

(Picture from Brickset.)

Edited June 22, 2020 by Murdoch17

[zephyr1934]

On 6/22/2020 at 11:14 AM, Murdoch17 said:

making it an older set than every mini-figure ever!

Well, minifig pupa could be found in 1975

Anyway, the Thatcher Perkins could be a great potential since it is an iconic set too... so if they went with a pre 1900 US locomotive that could make sense. But if they were looking for mass appeal of the specific locomotive, I would think Golden Spike first, the General second.

[danimarroquin]

Heres a good idea ,  How about some doors on trains and airplanes ! 
 

 

[Toxic43]

5 hours ago, danimarroquin said:

Heres a good idea ,  How about some doors on trains and airplanes ! 
 

 

10233 Horizon Express had doors on the coaches. None on the locomotive, though they do have fake doors at least.

[Andy Glascott]

Personally I’d love to see a small, compact steamer from anywhere, but I know it’s an unrealistic wish with the battery box etc requirements for powering it. The origin of a loco doesn’t worry me, I have Irish, British,  (continental) European and American locos, all 6 wide and 28 to 36 studs long, so the Croc would dwarf them.... I really like it as a set, but am not sure about how it would look on my layout, so if I get one it’s likely to be display only, which is ok but for me not ideal. Either way, it’s great to have a new locomotive, hopefully more to come in due course. 

[BurkusCircus]

Also, for those who didn't see Coal Fired Brick's 4-6-6T model, I wouldn't mind that being a set. Way too obscure though, I'm afraid