History thread

[RPupkin]

Yes we had a Civil War but we saw how bad it was under Cromwell's rule.

He wouldn't have really changed much because that was pratically the last stand of his men, His Imperial guard would have been demolished by the end of the battle anyway so it's not like He'd have much of a army to launch an assault on British positions.

Actually, whilst his troops were engaged with the British/Prussians in Belgium, he was organising another sizeable army in the many depots spread throughout France. He also had about 2-300,000 men guarding Frances borders with Spain, Italy and Switzerland. If he had have beaten Wellington at Waterloo (and it was a "close run thing") he might have been able to go on the offensive again with these fresh troops. The problem though was a sizeable Austrian and Russian army closing in from central Europe. Would they have put up a fight if Wellington had lost? Hmm, interesting one.

Also, another pretty interesting fact is that after the battle of Waterloo, the British and her allies were so badly beaten that it was the Prussians who actually persued Napoleon back to Paris and were so chaotic in doing so that some historians believe if Napoleon had gathered what was left of his Army and those reserves in the depots he might have been able to launch a pretty devastating counter attack. But his will was pretty much gone by that point.

Great thread guys!

[prateek]

Look what I found! Colour footage from WWII.

Video

[Joey Lock]

Look what I found! Colour footage from WWII.

Video

...You've never seen colour footage from WWII before? Guessing you don't watch the History Channel or Military Channel or "Yesterday" but I guess thats a UK Channel!

[prateek]

Nope. All we get to see in Canada on History Channel is a bunch of shows about Hitler, Tank battles, and some other random crap that shows over and over.

[Joey Lock]

Nope. All we get to see in Canada on History Channel is a bunch of shows about Hitler, Tank battles, and some other random crap that shows over and over.

Ah right, Well I've watched probably all the "World at War" Documentary series episodes at least twice. And it never gets old. I'm that much of a geek that I watch documentaries over breakfast!

[prateek]

And all I have to watch is

[baazzaa]

what about if they had aircraft carrier when the spanish armarda happened? do you think the english might have lost then?

[prateek]

what about if they had aircraft carrier when the spanish armarda happened? do you think the english might have lost then?

What kind of question is that??!?

[Artanis I]

What kind of question is that??!?

Have a look: joined today, banned today. Take no notice.

[prateek]

Good point

Probably some 9 year old kid.

Edited September 15, 2010 by prateek

[The Legonater]

Good point

Probably some 9 year old kid.

Judging by the other posts he's made, I'd have to agree.

[mikey]

The speculative question about an alternate history of the twentieth century raised some interesting points. The beauty of history is that the past happened, and the art of the historian is to both explain, and create, this past in the context of the contemporary. I have little interest in modern history, but a great fascination with the ancient and the prehistoric. So my speculative question would concern itself with potentially a crucial point in the creation of what we might term 'Western Civilization'...

The 'Persian Wars' were fundamental to the creation of an 'identity', amongst the Hellenic 'Greek' City States. The alliances created by the 'Persian Threat' could be argued to create a sense of purpose and common ground between the antagonistic city states. Of course the victorious write the histories, and much of what we know comes from the source of Herodotus. Who would tell later historians of the importance of this episode, who would in turn interpret the failed Persian Invasion of 480-479BCE as a fundamental turning point in history.

What I ask is how a victory for the 'Persian Great Army' led by Xerxes, could have changed the course of history, potentially on a global scale?

Edited September 17, 2010 by mikey

[Diaaabo]

The speculative question about an alternate history of the twentieth century raised some interesting points. The beauty of history is that the past happened, and the art of the historian is to both explain, and create, this past in the context of the contemporary. I have little interest in modern history, but a great fascination with the ancient and the prehistoric. So my speculative question would concern itself with potentially a crucial point in the creation of what we might term 'Western Civilization'...

The 'Persian Wars' were fundamental to the creation of an 'identity', amongst the Hellenic 'Greek' City States. The alliances created by the 'Persian Threat' could be argued to create a sense of purpose and common ground between the antagonistic city states. Of course the victorious write the histories, and much of what we know comes from the source of Herodotus. Who would tell later historians of the importance of this episode, who would in turn interpret the failed Persian Invasion of 480-479BCE as a fundamental turning point in history.

What I ask is how a victory for the 'Persian Great Army' led by Xerxes, could have changed the course of history, potentially on a global scale?

Such a lovely thread I'm an ex-Archaeology student, so I greatly enjoy History debates.

As for your question, it would surely change the course of history. However, Europe always had a lot of Eastern influence, although the most eurocentrics claim the opposite. From Pre-History to modern era, our culture, science and economy has always been linked to Asia and Africa. So even though the Persians didn't conquer Greece, their legacy influenced the Greeks.

Here in Portugal many people ask the same about some key battles won against the Muslims. Would the Christians still recover their territory in the Reconquista or would Iberia be speaking arab nowadays? Same can be said about Poitiers, Lepanto, most WW1/2 battles... It would be fun to have some kind of time machine so that we could see what would have happened if History took a twist

[Topsy Cret]

"What if Nazi Germany had won World War II?"

From a realistic standpoint, and not delving into detail, the Allied countries in Europe would belong to the Reich, save Britain. Countries such as Sweden and Switzerland would not be occupied by Germany, but would quickly turn into Fascist states. The Russian Steppes would also belong to Germany, but not the rest of Russia. Possibly some parts of Northern Africa would be occupied as well. Japan would be occupied by the United States.

The reasons for these are the following:

The Allied countries linked to the main continental mass had already easily fallen. Taking Britain would serve no purpose, and would take a massive amount of supplies and troops to hold.

Neutral countries, and eventually Britain as well, would lean to the German Reich and its ways, soon becoming Fascist.

Germany occupying all of Russia is about the most insane thing I've ever heard. The Soviet Union was enormous, and could have won the war even without US supplies. As it stands, Germany would have had to satisfy itself with the puppet states as well as the Steppes. Anything more is close to impossible to hold.

In order for Germany to have won the war, America could not have stepped in directly. Knowing this, the majority of the US forces left for the Pacific for the already planned invasion of Japan. Japan, seeing how well its ally Germany was doing, did not surrender as it would have. Thus, America occupying all of it.

After the war ending, several things would not have happened. The United Nations would never have been founded, at least not with the same founding members. The Cold War would not have happened the way it did, and could have become a three-sided arms race instead.

With Hitler at the lead, Germany would have advanced extremely quickly in ways of technology, possibly being the first to send a living organism into space.

There most likely hundreds of other things to discuss when on this topic, but I merely divulged the primary things.

[The Legonater]

Germany occupying all of Russia is about the most insane thing I've ever heard. The Soviet Union was enormous, and could have won the war even without US supplies. As it stands, Germany would have had to satisfy itself with the puppet states as well as the Steppes. Anything more is close to impossible to hold.

Personally, I'd always thought that Germany would attempt to force a surrender from Russia. As you said, it's much to large to occupy. By capturing some of the larger cities, they would not only occomplish their goal of obtaining supllies, but also weaken the Russian forces.

[Diaaabo]

That's an interesting view. You focused mostly on political aspects; what do you think about civil life? This is merely speculative, of course, but how do you imagine everyday's life in that case-scenario?

[Emperor Claudius Rome]

That's an interesting view. You focused mostly on political aspects; what do you think about civil life? This is merely speculative, of course, but how do you imagine everyday's life in that case-scenario?

Well, the Jewish population would go down a lot! And the Government would control everything we did, so it would suck.

[Daniel Williams]

Hi, just curious what if Germany and Japan attacked Russia rather than Japan attacking America... I was watching this documentary called the Samurai and the Swastika & found out that when Germany attacked Japan was on the fence about whether to attack too. Now I just wonder, what do you guys think? If Japan and Germany knocked off Russia together would they have succeed in this or failed? I mean think about it would Russia have to fight a two front war without the support of Britain and America being neutral. For me, I'd see this as a possible out come considering Britain was focused on it's own very survival and most of Europe was under German control.

[The Legonater]

Hi, just curious what if Germany and Japan attacked Russia rather than Japan attacking America... I was watching this documentary called the Samurai and the Swastika & found out that when Germany attacked Japan was on the fence about whether to attack too. Now I just wonder, what do you guys think? If Japan and Germany knocked off Russia together would they have succeed in this or failed? I mean think about it would Russia have to fight a two front war without the support of Britain and America being neutral. For me, I'd see this as a possible out come considering Britain was focused on it's own very survival and most of Europe was under German control.

Personally, I think it wouldn't make a big difference. Russia is a vast country, and personally- capturing it is just too great a task, two fronts or one.

[Emperor Claudius Rome]

Hi, just curious what if Germany and Japan attacked Russia rather than Japan attacking America... I was watching this documentary called the Samurai and the Swastika & found out that when Germany attacked Japan was on the fence about whether to attack too. Now I just wonder, what do you guys think? If Japan and Germany knocked off Russia together would they have succeed in this or failed? I mean think about it would Russia have to fight a two front war without the support of Britain and America being neutral. For me, I'd see this as a possible out come considering Britain was focused on it's own very survival and most of Europe was under German control.

Umm, Britain wasn't neutral, they just couldn't mount an invasion on Nazi soil.

[Daniel Williams]

Umm, Britain wasn't neutral, they just couldn't mount an invasion on Nazi soil.

I didn't mean Britain was neutral, I meant was Britain was more focused on it's own defense after Dunkirk and wouldn't have lasted long if Germany and Japan both attacked Russia knocking her out of the war.

[Emperor Claudius Rome]

I'll try to replace this alternate war talk with some other alternate talk...

What if John Lennon hadn't been shot?

[Admiral Croissant]

I'll try to replace this alternate war talk with some other alternate talk...

What if John Lennon hadn't been shot?

Yes, no WW2 this time But if John Lennon hadn't been shot, I don't think that would change a lot to the world.

Perhaps it would make him less legendary but not really more than that.

[The Who]

I do hate to dig up threads, but why start a new one for one question when we have this one?

So... I was wondering about a WWI French Adrian helmet I bought not too long ago. I am pretty sure it is French, but it has never had the badges commonly seen on the front of the helmets, and no holes or anything to attach badges to. I don't know much about WWI, I have more WWII knowledge. So does anybody (maybe some help from across the pond?) know what this helmet is? Maybe a parade helmet? I only have one photo of it, and there is no liner.

Here, it is in my gallery:

Gallery

Edited April 24, 2011 by The Who

[Joey Lock]

I do hate to dig up threads, but why start a new one for one question when we have this one?

So... I was wondering about a WWI French Adrian helmet I bought not too long ago. I am pretty sure it is French, but it has never had the badges commonly seen on the front of the helmets, and no holes or anything to attach badges to. I don't know much about WWI, I have more WWII knowledge. So does anybody (maybe some help from across the pond?) know what this helmet is? Maybe a parade helmet? I only have one photo of it, and there is no liner.

Here, it is in my gallery:

Gallery

Not all Adrians had a badge or insignia. Cause Adrian helmets were spread across the world. For example the Serbians had them, Soviets did:

For example, Medic's wore a helmet without a badge, instead, a painted, or decaled Red Cross replaced the prong backed badges:

Although I'd say its a M26 Adrian Helmet, although my knowledge on French Military is limited so I've had a little research and looks similar. Heres a picture of someone who had a Re-furbished Adrian Helmet from the Spanish Civil War:

Not all helmets contained a badge if they were supplied to various countrys or militants fighting, for example, the Royalists e.t.c. In the Spanish Civil War is your best bet.