What is Classic Space?

[Oky]

Hello there. Over in the "Space Getting Better" thread, CP5670 has brought up a good question, one that I have been wondering about for some time now: What do people define as Classic Space? Is it the very first Space sets, the first nine years of Lego Space, or anything before Life On Mars?

For me, it's the latter: Anything before the humans vs. aliens plots and the excessive use of stickers and Technic pieces in the sets.

Please vote for what you think it is and post your thoughts if you wish. If there is anything that should be added to the poll, just tell me and I'll add it.

Classic Space ON! (Whatever it is )

Edited September 1, 2009 by Oky Wan Kenobi

[The Cobra]

Classic space to me is everything commonly known as "space", and that's before Futuron came out. Therefore I voted 1978-1987, and that's what I meant in the other topic.

[prateek]

I think 1978-1987 is considered Classic Space because after that the sets lost their Classic Charm IMO.

[Big Cam]

78-87 for sure, since that was when I was getting space sets

[Mirandir]

Classic Space is the sets that had the classic space men with that old helmet. After that came futuron. Futuron had some inheritance from Classic Space but aren't really part of it. If you ask me.

[the Inventor]

Well, after thinking about it, I think it would be 1978-1990. In that year the last Futuron sets came out, wich were The Classic-Space Theme.

Sadly I can't vote this option, so I voted 78-87.

Just my thoughts.

the Inventor

[KDog]

I think every Space theme before Life on Mars is classic, but I only consider the pre-Futuron sets to be Classic Space.

[CP5670]

Good thread. I take it to mean 1978-87 (anything with the classic minifigs with old style helmets). There was a lot of variation in the sets over those years and the entire lineup had at least 4 distinct color schemes, but the minifigs were the one thing they all had in common. I refer to the later stuff as themed space or space factions.

I see many people associate classic space with the blue/gray/trans-yellow color scheme, which suggests that they only see the very first space lineup as classic space. If you look at all the 1978-87 sets, it was not the only color scheme used, or even the main one in any way.

Edited September 1, 2009 by CP5670

[blueandwhite]

Generally I consider anything pre-futuron to be classic space, but I can also see lumping Futuron itself in with classic space. Post-Futuron the theme lost cohesivenes. Sure; the theme introduced a number of great sub-themes. Unfortunately none of these sub-themes had the longevity of the original. Moreover, many themes suffered from sub-standard colour schemes. A kid collecting between 1990-1999 would be hard-pressed to build a balanced collection of bricks suitable for MOCing. With the likes of Space Police, M-Tron, Blacktron II and others the theme simply jumped around too much and subsequently lost most of its charm.

~1978-1987~

R.I.P Classic Space.

[Piranha]

I went with 1978-1987 which includes anything that bears the signature Classic Space logo (planet and ship going around)

Only true hard core Classic space fans would have said 1978-79, because those sets were very defined, red and white spaceman,

blue/grey/trans yellow color scheme, later on they expanded to yellow/blue/black spaceman and wider colors

I also don't consider it an era of time back instead an actual theme

Basically any set here I consider part of the Classic Space theme

-Classic Space Forever

[CP5670]

Moreover, many themes suffered from sub-standard colour schemes. A kid collecting between 1990-1999 would be hard-pressed to build a balanced collection of bricks suitable for MOCing. With the likes of Space Police, M-Tron, Blacktron II and others the theme simply jumped around too much and subsequently lost most of its charm.

Most of my childhood space sets were from that era, and I never had that much trouble finding good parts for MOCs.

Classic space had a couple of widely different colors and styles in itself. The only thing that sets like 497, 6952 and 6780 have in common are the minifigs.

I went with 1978-1987 which includes anything that bears the signature Classic Space logo (planet and ship going around)

I guess you would exclude Futuron and SP1 though, despite the minifig torsos having the same insignia?

[Siegfried]

To me it's always been 78-83! Things started changing after then.

[Holodoc]

To me it's always been 78-83! Things started changing after then.

I fully concur!

Everything space like that was built up grey/blue is classic space imo.

A good site to get the feel of classic space is neoclassicspace.

Advanced techniques in combination with classic colour choice.

If you follow Brickset, Classic Space would be 1978-1988 though.

[CP5670]

Although the NCS models are wonderful, they aren't really classic space at all. They have the same color scheme but have almost nothing in common otherwise.

I guess you guys mean 1978-1982 though. The white/blue/trans-blue sets like 6980 came out in 1983. 6980 not only had a different color scheme from 497, but was built with a very different concept and style in mind. It looks surprisingly modern for its time and I think it's a better model than 497.

[Siegfried]

I guess you guys mean 1978-1982 though.

Yeah, I think you're right. 1983 had this set...

...and it wasn't what I had in mind at all. I do agree with Holodoc though, techniques aside, neoclassicspace do target the same set range that I see as Classic Space.

[blueandwhite]

Most of my childhood space sets were from that era, and I never had that much trouble finding good parts for MOCs.

Classic space had a couple of widely different colors and styles in itself. The only thing that sets like 497, 6952 and 6780 have in common are the minifigs.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree on this one.

Classic Space sets from 1978 until 1987 shared a lot more than just minifigs. The colour-schemes used were actually quite similar. While not the same, most sets of this era had either a base colour of white, grey and blue with windscreens in either yellow or blue (and occassionally green). While the colour-schemes weren't identicle from set to set, there was some consistency in the sense that all of the sets used one of these three colours in their repsective schemes.

497 was predominantly blue and grey. Conversely 6980 was blue grey and white and 6952 was white. Collecting sets from that era provided the builder with a range of blue, white and grey bricks suitable for space MOCs. Spiritually the theme was quite well connected even if the designs did evolve over time.

In the 90s the trend of releasing a new sub-theme each year seems to have caught on (this is across themes). Castle, Space and Pirates started introducing different themes each year, yet there was no continuity between releases. This of course meant that one needed to buy a lot of M-Tron, Space Police (I & II), Blacktron (I & II), Ice Planet, etc. in a given year as lines became a one-shot deal. Essentially, a collector who was unable to amass a large number of sets in a single year was left out in the cold in subsequent years making the theme an 'orphan theme' popular amongst a small niche of collectors. You see countless classic Space Castle and Pirate MOCs because collectors had the time to amass a sizeable collection of each over the span of several years (a similar renaissance has occured with the current fantasy Castle line). Only a very small minority of fans seem to have the money (or desire) to purchase the orphan themes in large quantities. This requires a huge single-year output of cash or the willingness to buy on the secondary market for inflated prices; neither of which is easily done for the average consumer.

I am still of the opinion that LEGO's notable lack of continuity throughout the 90s was a serious contributing factor in the fall of classic Space, Pirates and Castle. Very few one-year themes have the same passionate followings that their multi-year counterparts do. In this respect, I hope that Space Police III sticks around for a few years.

[zero1312]

Well, Space is a futuristic line that goes on and on. So I went for 1978-1999.

I my opinion Space redefines itself in every new line.

[CP5670]

I do agree with Holodoc though, techniques aside, neoclassicspace do target the same set range that I see as Classic Space.

Well, I think the techniques make all the difference here. It gives them a quite different look and feel, more like the UCS sets than anything classic.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree on this one.

Classic Space sets from 1978 until 1987 shared a lot more than just minifigs. The colour-schemes used were actually quite similar. While not the same, most sets of this era had either a base colour of white, grey and blue with windscreens in either yellow or blue (and occassionally green). While the colour-schemes weren't identicle from set to set, there was some consistency in the sense that all of the sets used one of these three colours in their repsective schemes.

497 was predominantly blue and grey. Conversely 6980 was blue grey and white and 6952 was white. Collecting sets from that era provided the builder with a range of blue, white and grey bricks suitable for space MOCs. Spiritually the theme was quite well connected even if the designs did evolve over time.

Look at the pictures of the sets I mentioned:

497 (blue/gray/trans-yellow/some trans-red)

6980 (white/blue/trans-blue/mostly trans-red)

6952 (gray/trans-green/trans-red)

6780 (white/black/trans-blue/mostly trans-red)

I don't see how these are in similar colors, at least any more so than Blacktron, Unitron, Exploriens, etc. If you replace the minifigs, they might as well belong to completely different factions. The only thing they all have is the use of trans-red as a highlight color, but trans-neon green took on the same role with everything from Spyrius onward.

In fact, many of the later space factions used variations on the four classic space color schemes described above. SP2 has the same colors as 6952/6940 with black added in, Futuron and Exploriens (and SP3 for that matter) are based off the 6783/6972 colors with only the transparent highlights differing, and Unitron and Ice Planet respectively have the same base colors as 497/6971 and 6980/6929, with different transparent colors. I do see your point about the continuity of the theme, but that continuity is really only present in the minifigs.

Edited September 3, 2009 by CP5670

[Siegfried]

Well, I think the techniques make all the difference here. It gives them a quite different look and feel, more like the UCS sets than anything classic.

Are we arguing? I certainly don't think that NeoClassicSpace is the same as Classic Space. I'm just saying that their idea of Classic-Space, before the "Neo" part, does seem to match mine. I completely agree that the models themselves are not "Classic"...

[CP5670]

Are we arguing? I certainly don't think that NeoClassicSpace is the same as Classic Space. I'm just saying that their idea of Classic-Space, before the "Neo" part, does seem to match mine. I completely agree that the models themselves are not "Classic"...

Nah, then we would be throwing insults around. I was just referring to Holodoc's comment that the NCS site is a good place to get the "feel" of classic space. I find them to be much more neo than classic.

[Piranha]

I guess you would exclude Futuron and SP1 though, despite the minifig torsos having the same insignia?

You are right I don't consider those classic space

The way Bricklink has them organized is fine with me and the way I base it (yes there are some robots in there too hehe)

True they have an insignia, but the classic space figs have it direct on the torso at the top and no other printings like sp1 and futuron did

[Destroydacre]

I guess it would depend on your definition of classic. I know I'm in the minority here, but I consider space sets through the mid 90's to be classic sets. No they're not originals, if you want to argue that the original space sets ended in the mid 80's, I'll agree with you there. Sure they were different, but to me, Blacktron II, SP II, Ice Planet are classic with the final classic lines being Spyrius, Unitron and Exploriens. I do not consider the UFO or Insectoids sets (or anything afterwards) to be classics because that was when the figures and set styles really started to change. But for what I consider classics, despite the fact that colors and faces changed in the later years, each faction followed similar patters. Now these don't hold for every single group, but they do for the majority. Each group had some kind of base, with a big flagship, some smaller ships and some kind of land vehicle. The figures featured the same space helmets and visors with air tanks and that never changed during this time period. The sets may have degraded in quality, but I still consider them classics. When the UFO and Insectoid sets started coming around these things changed (different helmets/non human etc) and then the life on mars theme introduced aliens. Now space sets don't feature factions anymore. You get regular figs (good guys) and some kind of alien (bad guys) instead of say space police being good and blacktron being the bad guys. To me, when this shift occurred is when classic space ended.

[Rijkvv]

With Exploriens, new space helmets were released. And before that, with Ice Planet 2002 there were already different visors. I think the time what you called are the golden ages of space, but I don't count them as classic space.

[snefroe]

well i believe the term was created a while back to refer to the first generation of Lego space sets, when subthemes simply did not exist. so that means it started with the blue-grey ships, and it ended around 1987, when Futuron was released. That's right "around 1987". After all, several classic space sets were still available after 1987 and the Futuron sets were not released as Futuron sets during their first year in Europe. It was only a year later when the theme was officialy called that way in Europe, with the release of Blacktron, i think...

there's nothing more to it, imo. it's just a title to categorise lego sets. several classic space sets are really not all that classic. I also don't think anything changed all that much in 1982 or 1983. if you really follow the evolution of the sets in detail, you'll see that classic space evolved throu out the years slowly and in a logical way, nor did Lego ever decide to suddenly stop releasing a large number of older sets. Many old blue-grey sets stuck around for the entire timeframe... I think all these so called key moments are just in people's mind, really... a change in colours never symbolised a "change of guard" in the classic space universe, they were simply an excuse for an individual fan to leave space, but for the line itself, it didn't mean all that much. classic space remained classic space... until lego cleaned up the catalogue, think it was 1988 or so... and replaced the old sets/theme by blacktron and futuron...

[missouri_bb63]

I also think that classic space started phasing out in 82 but the sets up to 87 still had loads of charm. It isn't very precise though as many ideas and parts carried through right until 87. I think my last space set is the Robot Command Center (peeron 6951-1) from 1984. That also still had the classic blue/gray and trans. yellow parts which I associate with "classic", but I think that is simply because those are the sets I grew up with.

Edited September 13, 2009 by missouri_bb63