Suggestions & Membership

[AwesomeStar]

Ah, well, at least its in the same forum as the topic I was on about!

Overall, I think the mods do a great job here. Sure, they've made some decisions that I don't like, nor may you, but they try their best.

They aren't some super-human god (as much as we/they'd like to be ), but they give it their best shot, and 100% effort, and thats all we can ask.

I imagine a thousand other members must of said what I just have, and you might not agree with me, but thats your decision, and that's fine.

Have a nice evening (at least, where I am!)

~A.S.

[Luke McAwesome]

A quote from an earlier post...

...and people rarely engage in all out flame war...

... And now look what we're all doing now.

Why can't we all just get along and enjoy our experience instead of complaining?

The moderators have posted this reminder for a reason, and that reason is to keep a mature environment, and a well grammarized one at that.

So, why don't we all put this thread, now turned war between admins, mods, and members alike, to rest and get back to doing what we love? And that is building with our LEGO.

----------

For those of you that disagree with me, that's okay, but I'm not going to argue with all the kind people that dedicate themselves to this site.

Thanks,

-Striker

EDIT: And yeah, yeah, I know what you're all thinking. "STUPID HIPPY!"

Edited July 3, 2009 by Striker™

[AwesomeStar]

Im gonna say this last thing and then leave this topic alone.

Generally it isn't my business and I just wanted to express my thanks to the moderators and boost some morale around here!

When I check EB this morning, as I always do, I was suprised to see a reminder, thinking I may have done something wrong (I always jump to conclusions!), but I was quite thankful, as I too had seen some odd posting habits and actually appreciated it, as it gave me a well needed kick up the megablocks to start posting a bit more creatively, though recently I have been making my MOCs known.

Thats it from me, I'm not going to post in this thread again, but please, be happy.

EB is a great site, be happy you've even got a moderating team! It's good to have around.

~A.S.

[CP5670]

Perhaps I should merge this with the closed topic and let the discussion move on for a while.

Rest assured that if it gets ugly in any way, I'll shove the lot of you into the trash compactor and fry your megablocks

(that was intended as a joke )

Thank you. And that's certainly fair enough.

As I said earlier, I actually understand and agree with your motivations for the rules. I have nothing against the rules themselves. Since Lego is ultimately meant for kids, EB is more susceptible than most forums to attracting a lot of kids who fill the place with pointless posts because they don't know any better. I think there was one case of that just yesterday, and it seems to have been dealt with quickly.

However, it should also be kept in mind that having overly strict rules (which I don't think is the case right now!) can lead to a bad overall atmosphere. People taking a fun hobby too seriously was arguably one of the things that led to the rifts in Lugnet's community. As 5150 Lego said, it also leads to many members agreeing with moderators just because they want to be seen as staying in line, not because they actually support the moderators' point of view for rational reasons. In fact, there is some evidence of that in this thread alone.

The balance between fun and order on a forum is difficult to achieve, but I think what you are doing right now is a good compromise.

[5150 Lego]

You clearly do not appreciate it that people spend their free time to keep our forum clean and make it attractive for the AFOL community.

See, this is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. Someone tries to voice a concern, and you automatically dismiss it as them not knowing what there talking about, and that they don't appreciate the efforts of the staff. This clearly isn't the case. Instead of jumping to conclusions, how about you actually read a post or two?

You should try and moderate a site as big as this for a day, since you clearly seem to know it better.

You might not like my attitude here, but i've heard enough of this unconstructive whining cluttering up the forum.

I HAVE moderated sites BIGGER than this one in the past. I know what it takes to be a moderator, and I'll tell you...

If you think moderating EB is bad then you would get trampled on on any other large scale forum.

And who's being non-constructive? As CP5670 stated, there was nothing wrong with the topic. People were giving there opinions on the matter in a civilized and constructive manner, right up until you decided to close it without warrant in a rude and disrespectful manner, and gave a similar type response. Seriously. I challenge you CGH to go back and find one, just one post that was whining, rude, disrespectful other than your own.

5150 Lego, haven't you already created a topic about how you feel about EB's moderation?

This subject-matter has been brought up in there already, too.

Not being a mini-mod or anything, but you could probably continue this discussion there?

Here's the thread.

Just thought I'd make a suggestion, but it's down to the mods.

~A.S.

I did not start this thread. Someone else did. I merely added to it because i felt its something that i felt (and it seems others as well) strongly about.

A quote from an earlier post...

... And now look what we're all doing now.

Why can't we all just get along and enjoy our experience instead of complaining?

The moderators have posted this reminder for a reason, and that reason is to keep a mature environment, and a well grammarized one at that.

So, why don't we all put this thread, now turned war between admins, mods, and members alike, to rest and get back to doing what we love? And that is building with our LEGO.

----------

For those of you that disagree with me, that's okay, but I'm not going to argue with all the kind people that dedicate themselves to this site.

Thanks,

-Striker

Flaming? Who's flaming? Just cause someone disagrees with someone on a subject (whether it be a regular member or mod alike), it does not mean they've engaged in an all out flame war. Also, proper grammar and spelling does not automatically mean a more "mature environment" It never has. Does it help? This to me, comes down to maturity of the member to begin with. One should be able to engage in a debate without them being labeled as deliberately trying to start an argument or "flame war". There absolutely nothing that was in this thread that would suggest this, nor start one. There alsoseems to be quite a few that can't differituate an argument from a debate. Even with the posts that got this topic closed, there was no arguing going on. Voicing a concern that is not of the majority is not an argument.

As someone already stated, being such a large community that this is, opinions are bound to differ from person to person and just cause opinions differ from one another, does not automatically mean they are being attacked or flamed.

Im gonna say this last thing and then leave this topic alone.

Generally it isn't my business and I just wanted to express my thanks to the moderators and boost some morale around here!

When I check EB this morning, as I always do, I was suprised to see a reminder, thinking I may have done something wrong (I always jump to conclusions!), but I was quite thankful, as I too had seen some odd posting habits and actually appreciated it, as it gave me a well needed kick up the megablocks to start posting a bit more creatively, though recently I have been making my MOCs known.

Thats it from me, I'm not going to post in this thread again, but please, be happy.

EB is a great site, be happy you've even got a moderating team! It's good to have around.

~A.S.

See, this is another problem that i wish people would understand...

Just cause someone disagrees with a mod on a certain subject or brings something to their attention does not mean they are not thankful for the job their doing. No ones Morales should be down because of this thread. Com'on now. For gods sake people there human! Just like you and me! There not perfect, there going to make mistakes, and yes, yes, you might not agree with everything they have done. This does not mean in any way shape or form that you do not aprecaite them!!

As I've said before to the mods many, many times in the past. I know what they have to go through to moderate a site. I do thank them for their volunteer efforts. But just cause someone brings a matter to their/communities attention, is not disrespectful.

Thank you. And that's certainly fair enough.

As I said earlier, I actually understand and agree with your motivations for the rules. I have nothing against the rules themselves. Since Lego is ultimately meant for kids, EB is more susceptible than most forums to attracting a lot of kids who fill the place with pointless posts because they don't know any better. I think there was one case of that just yesterday, and it seems to have been dealt with quickly.

However, it should also be kept in mind that having overly strict rules (which I don't think is the case right now!) can lead to a bad overall atmosphere. People taking a fun hobby too seriously was arguably one of the things that led to the rifts in Lugnet's community. As 5150 Lego said, it also leads to many members agreeing with moderators just because they want to be seen as staying in line, not because they actually support the moderators' point of view for rational reasons. In fact, there is some evidence of that in this thread alone.

The balance between fun and order on a forum is difficult to achieve, but I think what you are doing right now is a good compromise.

Thank you! Great post!

Edited July 3, 2009 by 5150 Lego

[AwesomeStar]

(Breaking my rule, but this will be my last post in this topic)

Ahh, I see now.

My apologies then, 5150 Lego

I'm taking a leaf from Hinckley and backing out of this topic now

~A.S.

[Captain Green Hair]

If you don't like it, then please go to your bigger site that you moderate better.

This will be my last post in this one, too bad it was reopened.

[CP5670]

5150 Lego, I think you're just escalating the issue now. The thread was reopened, and as far as I'm concerned the matter was resolved in a good way.

[Mixwizzard The Terrible]

Hello.

I would like to comment on the following posted by the EB team. (Administration did not allow for comments on the orginal post)

===================================

A word from the Staff about posting

Recently, we've noticed a rash of odd posting habits that detract from the overall EuroBricks experience, so I'd like to take this moment to remind some of you of the basic posting standards that we look for.

Sentences begin with a capital letter and end with some form of punctuation.

Sentences are seperated by a space, or placed on seperate lines when starting a new paragraph.

Making lots of short posts may increase your post count, but they also increase your chances of being asked to leave the site. If you have something meaningful to add to a conversation, it will probably consist of more than one sentence. And those sentences will be seperated by a space. Or a line.

It isn't always necessary to start a new thread. Go to the appropriate subforum or theme and look around. You will probably find that there is already a thread about your topic, or one very close that you could add your comment to. Each theme forum includes a thread discussing the new sets for the year, so if you want to comment on one of them, that's the place for it.

Finally, we want you to have fun, we sincerely do. We appreciate a good joke and make plenty of them ourselves, but if that is all you are posting, or you find yourself mostly participating in non-LEGO topics, you might want to reconsider your choice of forum, since in the end, we are a LEGO site, and it is LEGO that we are here to discuss.

Keep these things in mind and remember that as an AFOL site, we look for a certain level of maturity, and you'll do great.

Thank you for your consideration.

~ The EuroBricks Staff

=============================================

Today I read this post on the EB site.

Unfortunately this confirms, my pre convceived notions of hobbyists.

From what is stated, it is obvious that the administration, want to keep a control, and are very "selective" about who and what is posted, if it is not to their liking, not just in terms of only Lego.

This yet another example, case in point, that proves that hobbyists, take what is a fun hobby, and "ruin" it for people that may want to being it, or for others just curious. I received very rude comments about posting "a thank you" , off all things, to replys to a new member post. This certainly demonstrates a control factor.

In hobbys, (model trains, cars, and collecting) I've all too many times, seen adults take a fun toy, or other, and make into a cut throat, personal, affliction, one which ruins the very essence of the fun and innocent nature of the hobby. Its not just the boards, but in stores, all over the world. Adults take, grab all the new stuff, leaving little to nothing for people, who are interested in a set, or product.

Certain Lego stores have been giving preference to "collectors" or hobbyist builders which is unfair.

EB has certainly exceeded its, decorum in this area as opposed to other message boards.

In addition to hobbies, message boards, as seen in EB, and other, have brought about, as I have seen in many different boards (topics) ill faded rumors, fights amongst members, and banishment of those who are NEW to the boards, any may not understand the personal rules of the creator of such board.

For me my only source is "official" news, in regards to Lego, releases of product, and other, and to save the drama, and the downward spiral, of cut throat hobbyists I do not enjoin the tactics used by the mods in the boards.

In closing, what was a hobby, fun and cool, has been turned into, a nightmarish vice of adults who failed to recognize the original intent of said hobby. Simply do not create or continue a board, unless you (administration) can be welcoming and lenient with first time posters, and persons that are new to the hobby. By imposing strict rules, harsh responses, and actions, will not only deplete your board numbers, but also turn persons off to the hobby of which the very board is about.

thank you

brickbuster44

I kind of agree and kind of disagree, the mods have told me not to post so short of posts even though I am new and did not know this.

The mods however dont want this forum to be flooded with 3 word posts with no meaning, these guys are strict because they want to see maturity.

I can agree that LEGO tends to make sets more for Collectors and not the average LEGO fan.

[Peppermint_M]

I saw this earlier, but had to go for tea and it was locked when I got back to my computer...

I have to say that this is one of the better forums I have been a member of. It's active and well moderated, even if some of the bannings could be a bit more transparent...

I find that most of the time the decisions are consistent even if I don't agree all the time. I also like that this forum isn't clogged with spam, flame wars and "n00bish" posts. I wanted to join an AFOL community not inflicted by FanDumb and this site is perfect apart from a few instances that grated.

Lego does't make lots of sets purely for collectors, there are a few sets and figures every year or so. I have never once come across a vulture like adult fan taking all the best sets away from children. Proof that Lego makes thigns to appeal to all: The new catalogue cam today. Mum looked at it and adored the carousel and the modular houses. My little brother looked at it and "AWESOME"-d every page. My Dad looked at the little leaflet about the board games. My other 16yo brother looked at the Star Wars. My Mum, Dad and 16yo brother aren't that into Lego, my little brother is a child and loves everything Lego sell.

BrickBuster seems to be exactly what he is decrying. Taking it all to seriously.

My most favourite thing about this forum is that I can completely avoid Star Wars (mostly anyway) which is a good thing

[Darth Legolas]

That thank you did now begin with a capital letter or end in a punctuation mark! Anyway, here are my thoughts on this, Mr. Mysterious double accounter, whoever you are.

I know seeing as you obviously have some other member slot on EB, you've already experienced our rules. I don't really take the Mods as ruining the fun, as I see some of them are quite funny. (Go Sigfried!) But here you see, the main thing mods here don't tolerate is spam and pointlessness. I don't know much about running a forum but I know about a little thing called BANDWIDTH, and if that is exceeded it costs a whole lotta cash $$$! Now this is a free site, where people can connect to talk sabout the common interest, Lego, which we all know and love. If you post something like "hey wazzup lookit my new site" randomly in a topic, chances are you will be banned. If you stick to talking like a normal person would, you'll live a happy life here on EB. Now we're not criticizing people who speak English, considering this is a European site, but it's the current leading Language in people who would post on a site like this.

Someone, please quote this!

EDIT: Holy Wampas on Tatooine, please don't tell me a rebellion is beginning! But really, is this some kind of revolution, because the last time I checked revolutions were sooo 1700's.

Edited July 3, 2009 by Darth Legolas

[MetroiD]

I don't mean to be disrespectful to any of the admins or mods around here, especially since I've befriended some/many of you guys, but I totally understand where both brickbuster and (especially) 5150 LEGO are coming from. In that sense, I must say that I support their point of view. I do hope that you continue reading my post beyond this point, since judging by the above reactions I may have pulled on all the wrong nerves by saying that.

My first posts in this forum where meant to share some of my/our less-than-perfect MOCs - what I was looking for most of all was some constructive feedback as to how I could improve those, seeing as MOCpages was not one of the places where I could get that. What I instantly received in turn was mocking from one of the forum's rare visitors regarding the size of the .jpgs I uploaded. A common mistake by all newcomers, which of course does NOT in any way make it any more tolerable. After duly resizing the pictures - a thing I always remember to do before I post anything on a forum but somehow managed to forget this time - I got a few more comments, one of which was a playful one-liner.

The admins gave me proper warning to take care of my pics (which I did immediately after having noticed the mess), and I'm grateful for that. The member whose "kind" welcome had been so heartfelt simply edited his post and all seemed to have been forgotten. The member who posted the one-liner funny, albeit short response received a warning which he in turn took a tad bit too seriously.

I hope that by now you're starting to see my point. There is an unwritten rule here that short posts are not wanted and that if one does not have anything constructive to say, they are better off not posting anything. Logical and good as an idea as that is, it is not always the best way to react towards new people joining in. A response in the manner of "That is one lovely MOC, I really enjoyed that" or "Thank you for that, I'm glad you appreciated it" shouldn't really be seen as spam - at least not in my point of view. That said, I also understand where the admins are coming from - however, speaking from personal experience, I do believe that in time members of the EB community get used to the no-nonsense talk and really begin to appreciate it.

A perfect policy would be to give a new member a few days and see if their behaviour changes in any way, then give them proper warning and scrutinise them if they continue with their negative approach. I've seen that happen many times around here and I think it's a sensible approach. Killing off one's enthusiasm by letting them know how unconstructive and useless their short post had been is however not really the best of ways to make anybody feel welcome.

A final note - I respect and/or have become good friends (as much as that can be said about virtual interactions) with all of the afore-mentioned members. Despite understanding some of brickbuster's grievances, I do not feel he needed to start a second account just in order to make his feelings known. In that sense, perhaps trying to take a lighter approach and actually have some fun around here would have worked wonders for you, brickbusting fella. EB is a very friendly place to be - once you get to know the people around here. And in regards to locking this thread - that does not help anybody, now does it. Noone is pointing fingers, we are simply trying to have a normal discussion like regular grown-ups.

[Tinn-man]

It's not that hard. Only post if you have something that adds to the discussion or brings a new idea to the topic. It's ok to tell people you like a new set or a new creation, just as long as you elaborate on it by telling what you like or dislike, and not just say something like "cool" or "That is a cool set". And while you're doing that, at least TRY to use correct spelling and grammar. It doesn't have to be a perfect sentence, but make it so that people can read and understand what you're saying.

[Shadows]

I'm only going to address one point because it's such a silly one that keeps being made and yet has no basis.

Just because people aren't overwhelmingly posting support for your side, doesn't mean they are afraid to.

We don't ban people for posting their opinions and everyone here knows that, or we would have banned the person who started this thread for having a second account that they only opened for this purpose.

Kind of proves our point.

In the end, there is nothing wrong with asking people to communicate as clearly as they can, nor is it wrong to ask that people actually try to have a point when they post. If you can honestly disagree with that, nothing we say will change your mind.

[Capt. Kirk]

It's not that hard. Only post if you have something that adds to the discussion or brings a new idea to the topic. It's ok to tell people you like a new set or a new creation, just as long as you elaborate on it by telling what you like or dislike, and not just say something like "cool" or "That is a cool set". And while you're doing that, at least TRY to use correct spelling and grammar. It doesn't have to be a perfect sentence, but make it so that people can read and understand what you're saying.

I agree with this. One of the main reason why we should TRY to use correct spelling and grammar is that people from over the world visit this forum and not all have English as their native language. So if we gone use slang spelling, like I call it, then it is not always very readable. With the consequence that a none English speaking member not always understand what is said… read misunderstandings, no reply, dead topic.

[Hinckley]

I fully support Captain Green Hair in closing this topic when he did. We are very busy as a staff and don't always have time to monitor things that may get out of control. Every member of our team has the complete trust of the rest of the team. It is up to our discretion what topics stay open and which ones should be closed. Each member of the staff is open to discussion about whether a topic should be re-locked or re-opened.

The original post made on the front page was a specific reminder for people that this site is meant for a mature adult community and discussions work best when people pay attention to how well they communicate. Personally, when people forget to put spaces between sentences (ie. I got the new City bus set.I like it a lot.the doors are really cool.It should come with more cats.) that really drives me nuts. The reminder was a good reminder meant to keep our core member base happy and also keep the site welcoming to new adult fans. Captain Green Hair was more than justified in closing a topic started by a member with multiple accounts and an axe to grind.

5150Lego, your opinion is always welcome, but your abrasive tone towards a staff who volunteers their time to make this a great community is unappreciated. I want you to be able to discuss things openly with other members and the staff, but I'm never happy to see a staff member disrespected. I really don't want to see any member disrespected, but this staff works their megablocks off to make this a good community, so please keep that in mind when voicing concerns. It would be greatly appreciated.

I hope that by now you're starting to see my point. There is an unwritten rule here that short posts are not wanted and that if one does not have anything constructive to say, they are better off not posting anything. Logical and good as an idea as that is, it is not always the best way to react towards new people joining in. A response in the manner of "That is one lovely MOC, I really enjoyed that" or "Thank you for that, I'm glad you appreciated it" shouldn't really be seen as spam - at least not in my point of view. That said, I also understand where the admins are coming from - however, speaking from personal experience, I do believe that in time members of the EB community get used to the no-nonsense talk and really begin to appreciate it.

A perfect policy would be to give a new member a few days and see if their behaviour changes in any way, then give them proper warning and scrutinise them if they continue with their negative approach. I've seen that happen many times around here and I think it's a sensible approach. Killing off one's enthusiasm by letting them know how unconstructive and useless their short post had been is however not really the best of ways to make anybody feel welcome.

I hope this is the last time I address this. That member had been here for a while and I gave him a simple warning to which he over-reacted and left the site. His comment was "I'll have some orange juice" not "That's a lovely MOC" and there were other one-liners he had posted on several other topics. The problem I addressed is between me and him. I discussed this at length with you by PM and I see no reason for you to still have a gripe with it.

The staff is the staff for a reason. We know how to deal with these things. As long as you're not being directly effected, you should know some things happen for reasons that are none of your business. Interactions take place by PM or personal conversations. Members start second accounts that you would never realize are the same person. Sometimes, members threaten staff members by PM and act normal on the boards. Question us all you want, but there are 14 people on staff you can trust to be fair and make the best decisions possible. Getting worked up over and holding on to things is unhealthy and unproductive. Life is short: have fun, play hard. Move on.

[5150 Lego]

I think we've both voiced our opinion for now of the matter at hand. So I'll leave well enough alone. But i felt it very necessary to address this comment of yours Hinckley...

5150Lego, your opinion is always welcome, but your abrasive tone towards a staff who volunteers their time to make this a great community is unappreciated. I want you to be able to discuss things openly with other members and the staff, but I'm never happy to see a staff member disrespected. I really don't want to see any member disrespected, but this staff works their megablocks off to make this a good community, so please keep that in mind when voicing concerns. It would be greatly appreciated.

There was no abrasive tone, nor did i disrespect anyone. Those comments were completely uncalled for. I was spoken to by one of your staff members in a very rude and disrespectful tone and defended myself. I don't appreciate you singling me out when i have done nothing wrong, and not acknowledging his behaviour. Just cause a member holds the level of moderator does not mean they have the right to talk to other members in the this manner. Yes i understand that mods do, but that is not a free pass to be a jerk and dismiss others. Not cool.

[Hinckley]

There was no abrasive tone, nor did i disrespect anyone. Those comments were completely uncalled for. I was spoken to by one of your staff members in a very rude and disrespectful tone and defended myself. I don't appreciate you singling me out when i have done nothing wrong, and not acknowledging his behaviour. Just cause a member holds the level of moderator does not mean they have the right to talk to other members in the this manner. Yes i understand that mods do, but that is not a free pass to be a jerk and dismiss others. Not cool.

You have your opinion and I have mine and now we've both voiced them. That's how it's done here. Thanks for helping me illustrate that.

[5150 Lego]

You have your opinion and I have mine and now we've both voiced them. That's how it's done here. Thanks for helping me illustrate that.

But yet you do nothing to resovle anything. Thanks.

[Hinckley]

I think we've both voiced our opinion for now of the matter at hand. So I'll leave well enough alone.

But yet you do nothing to resovle anything. Thanks.

What needs to be resolved? I thought you were leaving it alone.

[Cyclone Titan]

Boy, this place sounds like a courtroom.

Jurors! If people such as yourselves examine said evidence it would appear that man is guilty of TWO accounts!

I can see from the viewpoint of both sides here, but I do believe the Mods are NOT GUILTY of 'Harsh Hobbyists' (alliteration!) I believe that we must remember, that this is a site where the main demographic is adults. And, many people like to see proper grammar when the open their PCDMDs (Personal Computation Devices of Mass Destruction), not 'LOLz! Liek hai!'

But yet you do nothing to resovle anything. Thanks.

Whoa. That sounded a bit harsh, don't you think?

CT

PS: We as the Jury find the defendants (Moderators) Not Guilty!

[5150 Lego]

What needs to be resolved? I thought you were leaving it alone.

Com'on man.... You quoted exactly what i was trying to address!

[Hinckley]

Com'on man.... You quoted exactly what i was trying to address!

I am very sorry that you are as upset as you are and I hope your fears can be put to rest. Please take the time to think about what I've said and see if it's really worth all of this. Thank you.

Please, everyone trust us that we, the staff, check in with each other about our own behavior and being fair to our members. Our staff is very aware that online power can be easy to abuse without even realizing it. We go to great lengths to check in with each other and alter our behavior when necessary to be as unobtrusive and fair as possible in this community. Yes, there are guidelines. They are needed for a community this size. Yes, sometimes they may seem unfair or odd, but trust me that we've written them with the community in mind. The guidelines we've set forth and enforce are to ensure the safety and enjoyment of our members. You have my word on that and I can pretty much guarantee you have the 13 other staff members' word as well. Please feel free to bring any concern to me by post or PM at any time about anything. In doing so, please be respectful and civil. There's no reason to ever flip out by post. Keep your cool: that is the best way to ensure things get resolved. I can guarantee that nobody will ever be banned for voicing their opinion in a friendly or civil manner.

Thanks.

[5150 Lego]

So this is how you handle things huh? And you have the audacity to preach about maturity. Grreat job fearless leader.

[Hinckley]

So this is how you handle things huh? And you have the audacity to preach about maturity. Grreat job fearless leader.

Aw man, This is one of those examples of the difference between voicing your opinion and just losing control...