LEGO Pirates - fictional or realistic?

[Dreamweb]

This subject appeared in the Castle or Pirates thread, where fantastic elements of the Castle line were considered an advantage. Then there appeared a topic about custom Lego mermaids that could be used in Pirate theme.

Well, unlike Castle, where we had ghosts & dragons, or the new Vikings where we see various kinds of monsters, the classis Pirate theme was rather realistic. Yes, we had skeletons, but then they didn't necessarily have to be alive, may have just been treated as corpses. We've seen figures of Islanders' deities but no deities themselves. So what do you think - was it good that way or maybe Pirates (when re-released or in your own MOCs) would take benefit of having some fictional elements? How do you solve this problem in your MOCs?

[Mister Phes]

Hmmmmmm... Only two options...

Where's the third option: I'd like some fantasy elements but not take it too far?

[snefroe]

Hmmmmmm... Only two options...

Where's the third option: I'd like some fantasy elements but not take it too far?

you're going to have to give us an example, pirate!

my vote goes to the realistic option. i don't mind finding a fictional story behind it, it doesn't have to involve Nelson and Collingwood, but i think there are enough stories to be found for a realistic pirate line. "Hornblower" for instance, doesn't involve monsters,... but still is a good story...

This discussion reminds me of a legendary belgian comic book series "De Rode Ridder", more or less translated as "The knight wearing red clothes". the first 20 books or so were classic stories about knights, shield-bearers, wars,... then the writer added all kinds of mythology to it, like King Arthur and Merlin. Still, the books were really great.

then he pushed the series to the world of fantasy even more. he created all sorts of sf-elements, like UFO's, robots, submarines,... That ruined it for me. I just didn't recognice my classic hero anymore...

I guess you're allowed to take the fantasy element for a castle theme further than for a pirate theme. Dragons, ghosts, wizzards,... they're all part of medieval mythology as long as it doesn't cross a line... I guess in a pirate line it would be allowed to have mythological monsters of the deep sea, but i think pirates against soldiers is a far more natural story for a pirate theme

[Dreamweb]

Hmmmmmm... Only two options...

Where's the third option: I'd like some fantasy elements but not take it too far?

Well, that's the fictional option, even one little mermaid would make it fictional, there are no intermediate alternatives. Then you could write a post and explain to what extent you would like it to be.

[Mister Phes]

Alrighty then I've gone with the fantasy option...

To explain what I meant but subtle fantasy elements. Think of the Indiana Jones movies which have elements that stretch the barriers of reality but not to the degree movies like Lord of the Rings does, or even The Mummy.

However, I've change my mind! Bring on the fantasy aspect as it allows for more creativity and diversity!

[snefroe]

Alrighty then I've gone with the fantasy option...

To explain what I meant but subtle fantasy elements. Think of the Indiana Jones movies which have elements that stretch the barriers of reality but not to the degree movies like Lord of the Rings does, or even The Mummy.

However, I've change my mind! Bring on the fantasy aspect as it allows for more creativity and diversity!

well... i disagree:

We already have lots of monster themes, the vikings, dinos, designer sets,... I don't really see what makes these sets more creative. I would have liked a viking Long House instead of a weird fortress, i would have liked a second boat instead of a sea monster. Thank God they didn't have monsters when pirates were released! it's not difficult to be more creative with the viking line without having the monsters...

The creativity of lego is in what you build with the bricks. surely you have enough decent bricks to create whatever story you want

[Mister Phes]

But what if I wanted to create a story about the Monster of Kraken?

[snefroe]

But what if I wanted to create a story about the Monster of Kraken?

hm... then you should wait for the sailbarge set from the sw line to come out, get the arms of sarlacc and use those to build your squid... however, if lego produces a set with a ship and a kraken, then we'll trade, alright? you get my kraken, i get your ship... Happy now?

[Mister Phes]

Errrr... Which ship are you referring to exactly?

And Kraken was an octopus... Isn't LEGO passing off a squid as a kraken in a Viking set anyway?

Here's what I'm talking about!

[snefroe]

Errrr... Which ship are you referring to exactly?

And Kraken was an octopus... Isn't LEGO passing off a squid as a kraken in a Viking set anyway?

Here's what I'm talking about!

squid, kraken, octopus... whatever...

Not sure if Kraken is also part of Viking's mythology... hm... we should ask a viking about that... unfortunately they've all gone ... their month ended a few weeks ago... :P First time i heard about it was in the comic book series I've already mentioned but i don't know if it's mythology or just part of a spook's story...

anyway, i think you can build a kraken with the parts of the viking monsters...

btw, where does the word "Kraken" come from? sounds dutch...

[Mister Phes]

The Vikings are still alive and well, there forum has just moved down stream but it appears to be still active.

As far as I'm aware Krakens have been a part of maritime mythology for hundreds of years, read this Wikipedia article. But cryptozology fascinates me so I've been aware of them for a long time now...

[Sting]

This is a strange debate. On one hand, I wouldn't mind seeing some fantasy elements like Merpeople or something, and make them like another sub-theme... they'd have a few sets, maybe some islands that are very mystical looking... I don't really like the idea of having "Underwater" sets because the Pirates could not partake... they would only partake from the sea above(this is because most humans can't hold there breath too long to make it even plausible!)...

But I really hate the Viking Sets how most of the piece count is for Bionacle-ish Monsters... I want the monsters to be either made of all/mostly lego... or not have them at all.

You know, I'd actually rather just have the pirate theme deal with humans, but there can be fictional factions... like 2 groups of Pirates that look different and are enemies... and there is tonnes of ideas that could come from this without including fictional elements.

I'm just not sure... I'll save my vote for later... right now I am leaning towards more realistic(but not ultra-realistic...)

[Mister Phes]

It would be nice to be see some buildings of the 5 major powers of the Caribbean with some historic accuracy which takes into account the style and architecture of those nations. I don't mean 100% historic accuracy but sets that incorporate more realism than those of the original theme.

Perhaps some more historically accurate sets of the 3 major civilisations of the Americas would be interesting too. LEGO attempted some ruins in the Adventurers theme (particularly 5936 and 5986) but I don't think the concept was well executed. The sets look too colourful and have too many peripheral pieces lying around which doesn't do them any justice.

[Akkhraziel]

It would be nice to be see some buildings of the 5 major powers of the Caribbean with some historic accuracy which takes into account the style and architecture of those nations. I don't mean 100% historic accuracy but sets that incorporate more realism than those of the original theme.

Perhaps some more historically accurate sets of the 3 major civilisations of the Americas would be interesting too. LEGO attempted some ruins in the Adventurers theme (particularly 5936 and 5986) but I don't think the concept was well executed. The sets look too colourful and have too many peripheral pieces lying around which doesn't do them any justice.

I'm so on board with that idea. I'm a huge fan of the machuiltl (spelling on this is probably a touch off, but is close to approximately correct, its the wooden sword with obsidian chips set in it) and would love to have a bunch of little mini-fig Aztec with their eagle painted shields. And if we needed to have monsters, Quetzalcoatl and Hutizilopochtili whould be great...

Hrm. I should get more pirate sets.

Akkh

[Mister Phes]

Ahhhh the good old macuahuitl! Bless the Aztecs for inventing those. Damn I'm drunk...

[Norro]

As I'm one of those dwindling few who would like the castle theme to be cleansed of fantasy, I am definately going to have to vote against it in Pirate. One of my fav aspects of the Pirate line was how real it was. (With the obvious limitation of pirate vices to playable standards.)

God Bless,

Nathan

[Norro]

Perhaps some more historically accurate sets of the 3 major civilisations of the Americas would be interesting too. LEGO attempted some ruins in the Adventurers theme (particularly 5936 and 5986) but I don't think the concept was well executed. The sets look too colourful and have too many peripheral pieces lying around which doesn't do them any justice.

I also liked the ruins and would have loved to see more. But I think sets of living Aztecs with the accompanying sacrifices etc is a little brutal for Lego.

God Bless,

Nathan

[metallifreak44]

I think the Pirate theme is fine the way it is. It would be kind of cool to have a mermaid or something for a bit of humour for a stranded swabby who's been in the sun too long, but monsters and stuff is going a bit too far.

[Mister Phes]

I also liked the ruins and would have loved to see more. But I think sets of living Aztecs with the accompanying sacrifices etc is a little brutal for Lego.

Their LEGO counterparts could be giving remedial massages instead...

[Norro]

I also liked the ruins and would have loved to see more. But I think sets of living Aztecs with the accompanying sacrifices etc is a little brutal for Lego.

Their LEGO counterparts could be giving remedial massages instead...

I must admit I am surprised that anyone toting a spanish avatar would even want to consider an aztec army being built up....

God Bless,

Nathan

[Mister Phes]

We need something to pillage... Ships move, pyramids are stationary and hold more goodies...

[ghoulrealm]

Where's the option for ONLY fictional, fantastical, mythological?

I do agree they should be mixed, but I do'nt believe there is such a thing as too much fantasy.

Thats the reason I dont care as much for city or train as themes. It's like the same old things you see in everyday modern life.

[JackDagger]

Where's the option for ONLY fictional, fantastical, mythological?

I do agree they should be mixed, but I do'nt believe there is such a thing as too much fantasy.

Thats the reason I dont care as much for city or train as themes. It's like the same old things you see in everyday modern life.

i think there can be to much fanatasy, imagine a Pirates system that came with the dragons, rock people, time travelers, wizards, and lord knows what else.

i think there's a limit to the amount of fantasy that can be used in a genre.

for example, you often don't see aliens in a medeval setting, or wizards in a space setting. Now that's not to say that it can't be done well, i think star wars is a good example here. But generally there are things that are intrinsic to a specific genre.

[Evil Willy]

I have no debate here, except that I want it realistic, just like it was. Thats how I like my pirates.

[texas_jack_can]

Well, my vote is for realistic. It might just be my history-major mindset, but I can't really think of good "monsters" to use in a pirates theme. The Kraken is more a viking theme, skeleton crews could go anywhere, there isn't really that much, other than mermaids, and as was stated before, the lack of any diving gear for those poor old pirates limits that theme.

On the other hand, expanding into the native theme, could bring about some fanatsy elements. Toned down for playability, the Aztecs and Incas would be a great addition, and allow for some great expansion. I'm thinking El Dorado-esque large set, with temples and others as well.

An expansion into the major powers in the Caribbean would also be a great boon, as there would be expanded Spanish sets, Dutch, French, etc. (In my book, the blue coats are British naval personal, while the red coats are British army :-) )

While, thats my 2 cents :-)