Possible trouble for used LEGO sales in the US

[Deinonychus]

New law restricts re-sale of kid's products

08:53 AM CST on Wednesday, January 7, 2009

By SHELTON GREEN / KVUE News

A new federal law is raising concerns and questions nationwide and here in Austin.

On February 10, 2009 it will be illegal to re-sell any used children's products including toys and clothing. That is according to the U.S. Consumer Protection & Safety Commission who pushed for the new laws after dozens of toys were recalled in 2008 because of lead concerns.

Toys, clothing and other items used by children under 12 will be subjected to lead testing and will have to have labels on them to prove that they have passed inspection.

What is raising the ire of parents and business owners far and wide is what this will mean to clothing, toys and other children products made before February 10, 2009.

Gary Walthall, the owner of Once upon a Child, a resale shop specializing in children's clothing and other items, is afraid that he'll have to close up shop.

Adding to the confusion and frustration is the fact that the U.S. Consumer Products and Safety Commission is not returning calls or e-mails to the countless re-salers and even journalists who have tried in vain to get clarification on what the law means to garage sales and how it will be enforced.

Original Story - http://www.kvue.com/news/top/stories/01060...e.466a87af.html

Since the Consumer Products and Safety Commission is eerily quiet on all this, there's no real clarification as to how far this sort of thing goes, and if online sellers who deal in "collectibles" will be affected...but I don't have a good feeling about this at all

EDIT - More Info

Regulators rethink rules on testing children's clothing and toys for lead

The Consumer Product Safety Commission gives a preliminary OK to exempt some items from testing after complaints of hardship to thrift stores and sellers of handmade toys.

By Alana Semuels

January 7, 2009

The Consumer Product Safety Commission has given preliminary approval to changes in new lead-testing rules after complaints that the measures could have forced thrift stores and sellers of handmade toys to dispose of merchandise or even go out of business.

If formally adopted, the changes approved on a first vote Tuesday would grant exemptions to last year's Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act, which seeks to ensure that products for children do not contain dangerous amounts of lead.

As currently written, the act would require all products aimed at children 12 and under to be tested for lead and phthalates starting Feb. 10. Phthalates are chemicals used to make plastics more pliable.

Large manufacturers and retailers say the cost of testing will not be a burden. But small businesses such as handmade-toy shops and thrift stores say the requirement would force them to spend tens of thousands of dollars to test products such as clothing, in which the threat of lead is almost nonexistent. Many thrift stores said they would be forced to stop selling children's clothing or close altogether.

The commission's two members (a third seat is vacant) voted tentatively to exempt:

* Items with lead parts that a child cannot access;

* Clothing, toys and other goods made of natural materials such as cotton and wood; and

* Electronics that are impossible to make without lead.

The commission also tentatively approved a rule that clarifies how it determines exclusions from the law.

The vote opens up a 30-day public comment period that will begin when notice of the rules are printed in the Federal Register. Interested parties can find out how to submit comments by https:// www.cpsc.gov/about/cpsia/cpsialist.aspx "> www.cpsc.gov/about/cpsia/cpsialist.aspx from the CPSC at www.cpsc.gov .

No final rules will be approved until after Feb. 10, when the testing rules go into effect.

That means retailers and manufacturers who sell untested children's merchandise would technically be in violation of the new law starting Feb. 10. Whether federal regulators will enforce the rules -- which might entail inspections at thousands of secondhand stores and toy shops across the country -- is another question.

"The CPSC is an agency with limited resources and tremendous responsibility to protect the safety of families," said Scott Wolfson, a CPSC spokesman. "Our focus will be on those areas we can have the biggest impact and address the most dangerous products."

[Corvus]

That's....stupid. So it's illegal now because some terror about a bit of stupid lead-based paint from china? It's LEGO. it's plastic. No fear of lead, right?

Of course, there are a lot of older toys that have a lot of lead in them...

[natelite]

well, i think ppl are smart and very resilient. there will be creative ways to get around it. maybe it will mean reselling lego as adult toys rather than kid toys. eg, we might need to put disclaimers saying the lego we are selling are meant for adult use, not kids.

[Draykov]

well, i think ppl are smart and very resilient. there will be creative ways to get around it. maybe it will mean reselling lego as adult toys rather than kid toys. eg, we might need to put disclaimers saying the lego we are selling are meant for adult use, not kids.

That might work depending on how the legislation is worded (edit: I guess this has passed already). Just make Bricklink accessible to 18 and over only. I'm not gonna panic just yet...

Edited January 8, 2009 by Draykov

[Peppermint_M]

Maybe you could buy from the UK?

I'm not sure how it would affect buying from elsewhere.

[Buttons]

Well the majority of us, since this is strictly a adults fan website are above the age of 12 So we you (and by you I mean Americans) should be exempt from the ban.

Seriously though I don't think this is the best time to stunt the sale of second hand goods due to the ecconomy so I think they may realise that and actually just put a ban on the few toys that have a Lead problem.

Problem solved

Buttons the cat?

[Legoman]

I can just imagine a black market for lego

[hewkii9]

That law's a pile of steaming megabloks and I hope it gets repealed, screw the 'think of the children' crowd. Hopefully it'll never be enforced.

In the meanwhile, isn't it convenient that much of Canada's population lives near the border?

[Squeaker]

That's very stupid. I understand the danger of lead in toys, but that is hardly a reason to rescrict the sales of used kids toys. I think that instead of outright banning of sales of used toys they should require vendors to post warings that toys they sell may contain lead. Thus a vendor could still sell toys and the decsicion of weather or not to risk it (or know that it is lead-free, in the case of LEGO) is up to the customer. Don't they notice that they are weakening the economy?

On a happier side note, this is my 100th post, I am now a citizen.

[Draykov]

Here's a question...the article points out that "What is raising the ire of parents and business owners far and wide is what this will mean to clothing, toys and other children products made before February 10, 2009."

How would anyone be able to prove that any Bricklink inventory is older than that and who is the burden of proof on? Are individual LEGO pieces going to subject to lead testing and labeling? This is a stupid law. I have no problems protecting the kids and all, but why are toys not subject to recalls in the past going to be subject to this piece of legislation (assuming that's the case).

FYI: Ask a Question Regarding the New CPSC Reauthorization Legislation

Edited January 8, 2009 by Draykov

[mania3]

My government exhausts me.

[Marcus Aurelius Antoninus]

well, i think ppl are smart and very resilient. there will be creative ways to get around it. maybe it will mean reselling lego as adult toys rather than kid toys. eg, we might need to put disclaimers saying the lego we are selling are meant for adult use, not kids.

Ebay states in their user agreement "use our sites or services if you are not able to form legally binding contracts, are under the age of 18, or are temporarily or indefinitely suspended from our sites;" Which I think can be interpreted as anyone buying or selling must be of age and not 12 or under.

The Senate and House of Representives want to say that they are protecting children and they can go back to their respective states and say I helped protect the kids re-elect me. We really do not need so many new laws each congressional session, but enforce the ones we already have.

[Erdbeereis]

If this affects Bricklink I will be extemely irritated.

Although it seems like often we see things like this that never end up really having any impact. Time will tell.

[General Armendariz]

oh NO! I better get my stuff on Bricklink qiuck before this happens.

[ProducePrincess]

To be honest i have doubts this will really affect us ,it may cause problems for some retailers but other than that i think it's just a pointless thing done by the goverment to make it look like they are acting on the lead paint on toys problem.

This does not affect though because im a canadian

[VBBN]

Hmmm, I'm not liking this. Personally I think this is a bogus move by the government. Products like this have been sold for years, and it is just now going into effect? What the hell is the difference in products straight from Lego vs products straight from lego being re-sold? Nothing IMHO. I'll see if my Brother-in-law can get me any info on the subject.

Meanwhile I will continue trading lego until I find a warning that includes Lego Products.

[Corvus]

Actually, this won't affect Ebay or Bricklink at all because those are private sales, not official ones. Stores, however, like secondhand stores or collector's stores, will suffer because their sales are 'official'. Things like garage sales, flea markets, Ebay, or Bricklink are private and aren't recorded, other than numbers in a checkbook.

If anything, this will help Ebay or Bricklink because more people will be going there to get old toys rather than that poor old secondhand shop across the street.

[Derek]

I doubt this can affect Bricklink and ebay for Lego, because there are many sets not intended for ages 12 and below (or whatever age it said). And if it does, than its a load of bull.

[5150 Lego]

Actually, this won't affect Ebay or Bricklink at all because those are private sales, not official ones. Stores, however, like secondhand stores or collector's stores, will suffer because their sales are 'official'. Things like garage sales, flea markets, Ebay, or Bricklink are private and aren't recorded, other than numbers in a checkbook.

If anything, this will help Ebay or Bricklink because more people will be going there to get old toys rather than that poor old secondhand shop across the street.

Good point.

[Karto]

Actually, this won't affect Ebay or Bricklink at all because those are private sales, not official ones. Stores, however, like secondhand stores or collector's stores, will suffer because their sales are 'official'. Things like garage sales, flea markets, Ebay, or Bricklink are private and aren't recorded, other than numbers in a checkbook.

If anything, this will help Ebay or Bricklink because more people will be going there to get old toys rather than that poor old secondhand shop across the street.

I don't know how it works in the US, but usually if anything is illegal to be sold by official retail stores, it will be also the case on private sales. The main difference between private and official is that on private sales, you don't have to pay sale taxes. Also, I think you may count eBay as an 'official' place, even if most of the users are private. A lot of secondhand stores are dropstores; people leave the items and get a part of the money back when it's sold. This is the way eBay works. eBay will have to comply to the legislation (even if I really doubt it will come that far).

[Peppermint_M]

LEGO will probably be exempt, I can't see TLC letting it be said that their products contain Lead, as a very well known brand most people know that it's safe (apart from the whole chocking hazard and foot injuring thing...)

[Dadster]

Hmmm - I'm not impressed with this "law". It'd be too hard to track down folks/ sales. That's why one can still do pretty much anything on the interweb! The gov't can't figure out how to regulate and/ or tax it.

[Karto]

LEGO will probably be exempt, I can't see TLC letting it be said that their products contain Lead, as a very well known brand most people know that it's safe (apart from the whole chocking hazard and foot injuring thing...)

I think that this is the fundamental problem and the reason why they are trying to put some control: Matel, which is a brand as known and respected as LEGO (especially with Barbie) is one of those companies that had to recall several product lines because of lead contamination. TLC has, just like Matel, production lines in China. The problem with Matel, as far as I know, was not really the location but the lack of quality control on base materials. So, I think that if this law is really restrictive, they won't make any difference between these two companies (and don't forget the fact that TLC is not an american company, knowing how extreme protective they are, you'll understand...).

[Zarkan]

So, let me get this straight: because of major recalls of BRAND NEW toys maunfactured in China that contained led, the US goverment is now initiating a law that bans the sale of USED toys?

.... that is one of the biggest loads of crap I've ever heard. But hey, nobody ever said that Congress actually does anything good or useful, did they?

Edited January 9, 2009 by Grevious

[M'Kyuun]

My government exhausts me.

That makes two of us. I suppose our flagging economy, increased unemployment, and a two-front war in the Middle East pale in significance to the improbable, yet highly suspect, lead content in our toys. The old adage, "The road to ruin is paved with good intentions" comes to mind.