Shadows Posted November 20, 2008 Maybe because he could be lying and telling us that an innocent is indeed a heretic? He may be paranoid, we can't be sure, but as Mustafa has said, we only killed one witch based on his investigations, Bernard, and he flat out confessed in the other thread. Therefore, we know we haven't made any mistakes based on his efforts. See how easy it is if you just look at the facts we do know? That's why I want this issue cleared up as it relates to those who are burning in hell. It is currently being abused by Charles to try to turn the good citizens against each other, and I refuse to be turned. I will repeat until everyone understands. THERE HAS BEEN NO OTHER GAME IN MAFIA HISTORY WHERE THE MODERATOR LIED ABOUT THE ALIGNMENT OF THE LYNCHED PLAYERS. There is no reason to believe that is happening here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dragonator Posted November 20, 2008 People, really, don't you think this sort of discussion is a little heated for the middle of the night? It isn't normal for us all to be up late discussing things, how will we be able to do anything properly tomorrow if we're all tired? Perhaps we should sleep on this all, and then we can come to some proper decisions tomorrow. That said, I do have a couple of things I want to add. Firstly, we need to get our facts straight, as a lot of confusion is stemming from what we do not know for fact. 1. We have so far convicted 4 heretics/witches. This is not up for discussion; what God says is law. 2. The Inquisitor has only delivered one heretic to us with his investigations. (I believe this to have been a fluke however) 3. A persons role cannot change halfway through the game. If the Inquisitor is paranoid, which he surely is, he is not going to suddenly start making correct investigations again. That's not how these things work. To me, it is apparent that the Inquisitor is either paranoid or a heretic. I myself am more inclined to go with him being innocent but paranoid, however there is still Charles' theory of the three witches. What we really need is some solid evidence to confirm either opinion. Letus consider a couple of things. If the Inquisitor was a witch from the beginning, why would he have bothered to investigate another witch, Bernard? Why would he be investigating at all? A witch has no need to try investigating, as they already know everyone's alignment. This particular point is why I think it is more likely that he is paranoid, and thus simply always comes up with heretic results, but is himself innocent. This does not help our problem however. We still have this battle raging between Charles and Alexander. There are strengths and weaknesses in both their arguments, so it is hard to tell which is correct. We will eventually need to vote for somebody tomorrow, the question is, who? I'm not sure I want to vote for the Inquisitor as I believe him to be innocent, even if is investigations are wrong, but I don't want to vote for Charles or Alexander either, as there is the possibility that they are both innocent and simply have very these big ideas they want to get out. That said, either one of them is smart enough to pull off being a convincing citizen whilst still being an evil heretic. If you ask me, I think we should drop this argument for now and await fresh evidence in the morning, as we are clearly getting nowhere with this. I for one want a bit of sleep before we start trying to solve all this tomorrow. Good night everyone, go to bed! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hinckley Posted November 20, 2008 what God says is law. He's not God. He even said so. Are you not reading that? Should we tattoo it on your face? Well, a good point is a good point. I am done arguing this. I have started to grow more suspicious of Gustav and Alexander since they are so threatened by my theory and seem desperate to convince people I'm not right, but I digress... Good night Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dragonator Posted November 20, 2008 He's not God. He even said so. Are you not reading that? Should we tattoo it on your face? I shall rephrase. What the Game Moderator says out of the story line is law. This is not up for discussion. There, happy? Now go to bed! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shadows Posted November 20, 2008 1. We have so far convicted 4 heretics/witches. This is not up for discussion; what God says is law. Yet that is exactly what we are discussing because Charles claims we haven't, and now he has others doubting it as well. Just wait, he'll tell you this himself shortly, it's the only chance he has to fool us and he's doing all he can to use it. He'll eventually attack you for it, just as he has attacked me. 3. A persons role cannot change halfway through the game. If the Inquisitor is paranoid, which he surely is, he is not going to suddenly start making correct investigations again. That's not how these things work. Actually, it can, you've just forgotten. One of your own quotes showed where a paranoid cop role could eventually regain his sanity as the game progressed. If the Inquisitor was a witch from the beginning, why would he have bothered to investigate another witch, Bernard? Why would he be investigating at all? A witch has no need to try investigating, as they already know everyone's alignment. This particular point is why I think it is more likely that he is paranoid, and thus simply always comes up with heretic results, but is himself innocent. Exactly, and there is no use in voting off someone who is innocent, even if he is crazy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dragonator Posted November 20, 2008 Actually, it can, you've just forgotten. One of your own quotes showed where a paranoid cop role could eventually regain his sanity as the game progressed. What, where does it say that? I must be a bit slow since it's the middle of the night. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shadows Posted November 20, 2008 Well, a good point is a good point. I am done arguing this. I have started to grow more suspicious of Gustav and Alexander since they are so threatened by my theory and seem desperate to convince people I'm not right, but I digress... And yet what Root Admin keeps changing my title to try to make me look like I'm bad? Oh, he's changing Norrington's as well. Mature. I suppose you'll start attacking Mustafa now that he has made it clear he agrees with my position in this matter? We have killed 4 witches. Mourn them if you must, but give up trying to claim they're innocent. Stupid witch. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Norrington Posted November 20, 2008 Ah well, I know indeed who I shall be voting for on the morrow. Goodnight and God rest ye, my fellows. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darth_Legois Posted November 20, 2008 Ah well, I know indeed who I shall be voting for on the morrow.Goodnight and God rest ye, my fellows. *Wakes up from all the yelling between charles ect..* What the hell? Im trying to sleep you witches! And yes I agree with gustav....I certainly know who im voting for... *cough*charles*cough* *yawns* Im going back to bed! Hopefully for the last time untill morning.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shadows Posted November 20, 2008 What, where does it say that? I must be a bit slow since it's the middle of the night. It might be me, in this case. I know I remember you either saying it or saying something that I looked up and found where it was possible. This has been the chattiest game in the shortest time that I've ever seen, it's like wading through an entire book. I couldn't find what you said that triggered it, but basically the idea was that the paranoid cop could eventually regain his sanity, at which point he would either do correct investigations or be unable to use the ability anymore. I figure if we let the Inquisitor keep trying, he'll probably stop getting results, or he could check someone again and get a different result and we would know that the second one was correct. Either way, he isn't a danger as long as we don't convict solely based on his word, so I can't understand why anyone would consider killing him. I'd kill the torturer first, just in case he's somehow accidentally (or intentionally) turning them bad, and even that is a stretch. Now, I'm going to bed before someone changes my title again. This game ... of life ... is officially on hold for me until we receive word from our host confirming that those who are burning in hell, truly are, as would be the case in any normal game (damn Charles for even bringing up this red herring and causing so much useless chat). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Norrington Posted November 20, 2008 I couldn't find what you said that triggered it, but basically the idea was that the paranoid cop could eventually regain his sanity, at which point he would either do correct investigations or be unable to use the ability anymore. I figure if we let the Inquisitor keep trying, he'll probably stop getting results, or he could check someone again and get a different result and we would know that the second one was correct.Either way, he isn't a danger as long as we don't convict solely based on his word, so I can't understand why anyone would consider killing him. I'd kill the torturer first, just in case he's somehow accidentally (or intentionally) turning them bad, and even that is a stretch. Huh. An interesting thought. I doubt that he'd become uable to get results, but it's a rational thought, at least. I really think that the Inquisitor isn't paranoid. So what, he's gotten all guilty results. Just a a woman named Florence in the Legend of Moonlight, he may just be a very good guess, no? Ah well, I think I'll retire, gentlemen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dragonator Posted November 20, 2008 Alexander, I think you must be refering to this quote I found in an old book. Quote MafiaWiki Paranoid Cop: always gets "guilty" results (rare in games with a Godfather, for obvious reasons) Once the Cop discovers their sanity, they may stop investigating, as all results are equally useless. (For full article, refer to this page.) As you can see, this just states that the Cop may decide to stop investigating once it is clear that they are paranoid. I cannot think of anywhere that I have read that the paranoid cop can eventually start finding correct results; paranoia isn't fixed that easily, it's a serious condition you know. Why are we still up? Didn't someone say we should go to bed? Oh right, that was me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hinckley Posted November 20, 2008 - Don't take my word as fact. Some information or clues could possibly be misleading, just as some could be helpful. What the Game Moderator says out of the story line is law. This is not up for discussion. Are you blind? It is up for discussion. He has told us so himself! Do you see the quote above yours? Ah well, I know indeed who I shall be voting for on the morrow.Goodnight and God rest ye, my fellows. Who? Oh, he didn't tell us. Goodnight Gustav! What a nice fellow... And yes I agree with gustav....I certainly know who im voting for... *cough*charles*cough* Why cough and spoil? Please do me a favor good sir, and ask Miguel to kill me, but don't leave my soul to the Inquisitor... Thank you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dragonator Posted November 20, 2008 Are you blind? It is up for discussion. He has told us so himself! Do you see the quote above yours? As much as your theory could make sense, this is the major point I must disagree on. Note the word misleading. Misleading is when he says one thing but means another, or where an innocent action can appear evil in a certain context. He does not however state that he will lie to us and provide false information. Game Moderators just don't do that sort of thing, as you should know. It would be very helpful if Tiny Pius could confirm weather the information written outside of the plot is correct however. As far as Mafia games go, it is a tradition, nay, an unwritten law, that what the moderator writes in the first post is correct. It may often be misleading, but it is always correct. Imagine what sort of bitching would have gone on in the previous games if the Moderator had decided to give false information to the players. I would never have heard the end of it! I can't say that your theory is false, but I do think that it is highly unlikely, at least this part anyway. If we can't accept that the people we've killed already are heretics, how in the world are we going to find the rest of them? We need to start focusing on the living, not on the dead. That all said, I think that once we have a little more information tomorrow it should be clearer to me who the heretic is in this whole business. Until then, let's try and get a little sleep, shall we? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hinckley Posted November 20, 2008 As much as your theory could make sense, ... information tomorrow it should be clearer to me who the heretic is in this whole business. Until then, let's try and get a little sleep, shall we? Logical and wise. If we get such confirmation, I'll drop the theory altogether. It's just interesting how certain people reacted to it as it's only a theory... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MagPiesRUs Posted November 20, 2008 I'm not confirming anything. More clues about the game... of life will be released tomorrow, but until then, try to start thinking outside the box... Thanks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hinckley Posted November 20, 2008 I'm not confirming anything. More clues about the game... of life will be released tomorrow, but until then, try to start thinking outside the box...Thanks. Suckers! I'm right! :pir-tongue: :pir-tongue: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dragonator Posted November 20, 2008 Well I wouldn't say your right, however I do think that we should definitely consider your theory and look into it tomorrow. Hopefully with some fresh evidence we will be able to be more certain about either one. That said, Charles, good on you for sticking to your idea and not succumbing to peer pressure, your theory may just turn out to be founded on some fact. We must still be cautions however, a mistake here could cost us all dearly. There are still a number of things to clear up around both theories before I am entirely convinced. If we look into everything clearly and thoroughly tomorrow, then I am sure we can find the truth of this matter. This has given me quite a bit to think on, so I can't say this night time discussion was a waste of time. I shall share my ideas in the morning, once we find out what happened during the night. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
