Star Wars

[Oky]

1 hour ago, samurai-turtle said:

For the Solo: a Star Wars Story has their been a movie trailer out yet, because is it coming out in May? Shouldn't their be one out by now? 

I am starting to think this movie is going to have some problems with it. First with the director(s) and changing hands, just like with The Justice League Movie (basically not a good sign). Second the apparent lack of advertising. And I am guessing just as annoying when it starts, like stated above.

There is a rumor that a trailer is going to drop tomorrow, but no confirmation so far. Nevertheless, the fact that we haven't even gotten a teaser yet so close to release is troubling indeed. It shows that either A) Disney doesn't have much faith in the movie (for good reason), so they don't bother advertising it, B) The movie is still so much of a mess that they don't have enough footage ready yet to be used for a trailer, or C) All of the above. Option B seems unlikely since the movie is due to release in a few months and it's not like that has stopped them from releasing a trailer before (*cough*Rogue One*cough*). Either way, it's going to be a disaster. I predict that this movie will be a rushed, under-advertised mess with different tones/directing styles and questionable casting that nobody asked for in the first place.

And yes, I don't like any of the sponsored commercials either. My least favorite is the Walmart "Be Jedi Ready" ads. I mean, what does that even mean? Be ready for The Last Jedi? If so, why would you need merchandise to be ready for a movie? It's very nitpicky, I know, but it just bugs me. But seriously, the laziness of the commercials just adds on to the feeling of these movies being blatant cash grabs.

PS: You may want to remove that somewhat spoilery part about Leia from your quote.

[Japanbuilder]

14 minutes ago, Oky said:

There is a rumor that a trailer is going to drop tomorrow, but no confirmation so far. Nevertheless, the fact that we haven't even gotten a teaser yet so close to release is troubling indeed. It shows that either A) Disney doesn't have much faith in the movie (for good reason), so they don't bother advertising it, B) The movie is still so much of a mess that they don't have enough footage ready yet to be used for a trailer, or C) All of the above. Option B seems unlikely since the movie is due to release in a few months and it's not like that has stopped them from releasing a trailer before (*cough*Rogue One*cough*). Either way, it's going to be a disaster. I predict that this movie will be a rushed, under-advertised mess with different tones/directing styles and questionable casting that nobody asked for in the first place.

And yes, I don't like any of the sponsored commercials either. My least favorite is the Walmart "Be Jedi Ready" ads. I mean, what does that even mean? Be ready for The Last Jedi? If so, why would you need merchandise to be ready for a movie? It's very nitpicky, I know, but it just bugs me. But seriously, the laziness of the commercials just adds on to the feeling of these movies being blatant cash grabs.

PS: You may want to remove that somewhat spoilery part about Leia from your quote.

Personally, judging by the treatment of the older characters in the main line series of films I am surprised they bothered with a Han Solo movie and, apparently, an Obi-Wan stand alone movie. It just feels like they are ready to move on to the wider galaxy and tell us new stories but at the same time are too squeamish about how to handle that. One thing is for sure though, given the current climate online and offline; they will lose either way. Would not surprise me if they phoned them all in at this point since it seems they already broke even from their purchase of the brand. The rest is just bonus now. 

[RetroInferno]

3 minutes ago, Japanbuilder said:

Personally, judging by the treatment of the older characters in the main line series of films I am surprised they bothered with a Han Solo movie and, apparently, an Obi-Wan stand alone movie. It just feels like they are ready to move on to the wider galaxy and tell us new stories but at the same time are too squeamish about how to handle that. One thing is for sure though, given the current climate online and offline; they will lose either way. Would not surprise me if they phoned them all in at this point since it seems they already broke even from their purchase of the brand. The rest is just bonus now. 

Star Wars is creativly bankrupt; Star Trek Discovery is better at beingStar Wars than anything Disney pulled up so far.

They need to kick start that new trilogy far away from any of the known character and known conflicts; do something else than ''A young jedi joins a bunch of rebels to fight the evil empire with the giant super weapon'' and give it to a single writer/director that knows what he's doing.

 

 

[samurai-turtle]

1 hour ago, Oky said:

And yes, I don't like any of the sponsored commercials either. My least favorite is the Walmart "Be Jedi Ready" ads. I mean, what does that even mean? Be ready for The Last Jedi? If so, why would you need merchandise to be ready for a movie? It's very nitpicky, I know, but it just bugs me. But seriously, the laziness of the commercials just adds on to the feeling of these movies being blatant cash grabs.

PS: You may want to remove that somewhat spoilery part about Leia from your quote.

I forgotten about that one, I guess it didn't hang around like the other one. I still see the dumb phone one (I seen it today). 

As for the Leia stuff, I think it is not really a spoiler in the traditional sense. Plus, I believe the etiquette is two weeks to be spoiler free. But I will see if I can edit it. 

[Oky]

On 1/11/2018 at 9:12 PM, Oky said:

There is a rumor that a trailer is going to drop tomorrow, but no confirmation so far.

Well, so much for that rumor. But it will be released soon according to a recent tweet from Ron Howard which started the rumor.

On 1/11/2018 at 9:32 PM, Japanbuilder said:

Personally, judging by the treatment of the older characters in the main line series of films I am surprised they bothered with a Han Solo movie and, apparently, an Obi-Wan stand alone movie. It just feels like they are ready to move on to the wider galaxy and tell us new stories but at the same time are too squeamish about how to handle that. One thing is for sure though, given the current climate online and offline; they will lose either way. Would not surprise me if they phoned them all in at this point since it seems they already broke even from their purchase of the brand. The rest is just bonus now. 

Yeah, all this talk about "killing the past" and all those dumb plot twists trying to break free of the mold, and yet all these movies still stick so close to the story of the OT that it seems pretty hypocritical. Let's hope the new trilogy will be a lot more original, although after how Rian handled this movie I don't have much faith.

Personally, I'm actually OK with an Obi-Wan movie as I wouldn't mind seeing more of Evan McGregor playing this character, although I'm probably biased since he's my favorite character.

On 1/11/2018 at 9:43 PM, RetroInferno said:

Star Wars is creatively bankrupt; Star Trek Discovery is better at being Star Wars than anything Disney pulled up so far.

They need to kick start that new trilogy far away from any of the known character and known conflicts; do something else than ''A young jedi joins a bunch of rebels to fight the evil empire with the giant super weapon'' and give it to a single writer/director that knows what he's doing.

So true.

[LegoAndDisney]

Don't know if this is the right place to put it. But I made a modern trailer for  Empire Strikes Back!

I'd love to hear what people think of it :D

[Japanbuilder]

On 1/12/2018 at 2:43 PM, RetroInferno said:

Star Wars is creativly bankrupt; Star Trek Discovery is better at beingStar Wars than anything Disney pulled up so far.

They need to kick start that new trilogy far away from any of the known character and known conflicts; do something else than ''A young jedi joins a bunch of rebels to fight the evil empire with the giant super weapon'' and give it to a single writer/director that knows what he's doing.

 

 

In a lot of ways it always has been. Strip away the doodads and the setting and the same type of story has been told in literature and other media since the dawn of story-telling. Now, I love me my Star Wars and will take all I can (except the prequels, they put me right to sleep). Yet, what makes Star Wars special is, ironically, how mundane it actually is and how pedestrian its themes and stories flow. 

But like I said I love it to death. I can see its faults but I let it entertain me, boring as it's themes and rhythms are they do make approaching those a lot of fun. 

Disney should muster some courage though and take the franchise by the horns and steer it someplace new. I know they prefer the sure shots and the money in the bank but if they want it to keep printing money they need to really take the online rage in stride and keep at it. Let us recall EPV was not well received back in the day and RoTJ was and largely still is the butt of pop culture jokes to this day so there that is. Disney just needs to entertain and surprise us or they will kill this brand due to sheer saturation and underdevelopment. 

 

[RetroInferno]

1 hour ago, Japanbuilder said:

In a lot of ways it always has been. Strip away the doodads and the setting and the same type of story has been told in literature and other media since the dawn of story-telling. Now, I love me my Star Wars and will take all I can (except the prequels, they put me right to sleep). Yet, what makes Star Wars special is, ironically, how mundane it actually is and how pedestrian its themes and stories flow. 

But like I said I love it to death. I can see its faults but I let it entertain me, boring as it's themes and rhythms are they do make approaching those a lot of fun. 

Disney should muster some courage though and take the franchise by the horns and steer it someplace new. I know they prefer the sure shots and the money in the bank but if they want it to keep printing money they need to really take the online rage in stride and keep at it. Let us recall EPV was not well received back in the day and RoTJ was and largely still is the butt of pop culture jokes to this day so there that is. Disney just needs to entertain and surprise us or they will kill this brand due to sheer saturation and underdevelopment. 

 

They could very well shape the universe the way they want with a TV series about a lot of subjects, the easiest one being the under ground life of Star Wars; imagine something based on people trying to make a living on Nar Shadda, he could be a thief, bounty hunter, start his own crime organisation. Maybe go a bit game of thrones like with it, be fun and creative. 

If they absolutly want to stick with an ''epic'' trilogy they are going to to fall with the same pattern 4,5 and 6 created.

My suggestion to kick life into the universe is to really start to flesh it out with a set era, introduce new and varied characters that people will like, explain the power struggle of the main factions e.t.c. Be it far removed from the themes and characters we already know of. 

I know the galatic civil war is a very vast and interesting subject; in fact the PC video game TIE Fighter did a pretty flawless job of world and immersion, and what potential Star Wars has. The Marvel Star Wars comics also demonstrated that, they are very good. 

This new sequel trilogy they are doing is already done in my mind, I'm not interested in learning anything based on it; they failed to make me feel invested on what is going and they didnt bother to set-upthe universe in the first or second movie, the plot barely moves foward with The Last Jedi in almost a criminal way and I don't care to see the finale. 

In resume it may be creativly bankrupt in the current epic trilogy format, but there's so much potential in single movies and tv series it pains me to watch it dying like this. 

Take risks, be bold and make something fun; people connected so much with the first trilogy because the movies were good, not because it was slapped ''Star Wars'' on it. 

God it pains me...

 

 

 

Edited January 16, 2018 by RetroInferno

[Forresto]

There's so much potential with a new series, especially if animated ala Rebels ending and Filoni working on a new animated project.

1) Old Republic - Set 1,040 years before the Phantom Menace the galaxy is in chaos and turmoil. The Old Republic is crumbling. The Mandalorians are at the height of their power, the Zygerrians and Hutt clans are running rampant, and the Sith-Jedi Wars are about to begin as are the Republic-Mandalorian wars. 

The potential in the canonical lore of a show in this era is phenomenal with so many important events fundamental to Star Wars's lore that occur in this decade. The Galactic Republic is reorganized and the capital moved to Coruscant, the galactic senate is founded, the Sith are eradicated to only Darth Bane who then starts the rule of two, Mandalore is glassed and made barren and inhospitable.

Man Kanata, Revan, and even Snoke could be mentioned or show up. Takodana is the sight of a major battle between the Sith and the Jedi.

This decade is the lynchpin in the entire Star Wars lore that connects and effects and touches every story without altering anything. It merely expounds and visualizes upon what we already know. If this isnt the next or at very least a planned animated series, or game series then someone at Lucasfilm needs to be smacked.  

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Old_Republic

 

2) Resistance - Set right before the founding of the Resistance as seen in Bloodlines. The First Order is known (hence Leia eventually creating the Resistance to counter them) but still extremely mysterious and ominous, which would make for fantastic overarching bad guys in the background. However our antagonists of the week could be pirate gangs and such since crime is on the rise and in part funded by the Order to sow chaos. This series would be heavily espionage based with lots of subterfuge. 

Several factions of the Imperial Remanent are still around with swathes of territory, potential antagonists, and the New Republic is in turmoil. Would be the perfect chance to world build for the sequel trilogy.    

 

3) A series between Jakku and the Force Awakens - primary factor here being Mark Hammil is a voice actor and does cartoons. We could potentially get a whole bunch of stories of now only what Luke did during these years but through the voice of Luke himself. We could get all the classic characters from Han to Lando to Leia to Ackbar. Same as #1 we'd also see brilliant opportunities to world build. 

 

On January 12, 2018 at 12:43 AM, RetroInferno said:

Star Wars is creativly bankrupt; Star Trek Discovery is better at beingStar Wars than anything Disney pulled up so far.

They need to kick start that new trilogy far away from any of the known character and known conflicts; do something else than ''A young jedi joins a bunch of rebels to fight the evil empire with the giant super weapon'' and give it to a single writer/director that knows what he's doing.

Star Trek Discovery is in no way like Star Wars, and if you think a few battles do that then you need to go rewatch the later seasons of DS9.

Edited January 17, 2018 by Forresto

[x105Black]

4 hours ago, Forresto said:

1) Old Republic

2) Resistance   

3) A series between Jakku and the Force Awakens

1) I am not much interested in the Old Republic era of Star Wars.  I never played the Knights of the Old Republic games, which is probably my loss, but I did briefly play The Old Republic MMO and really disliked it.  I am, however, a bit biased as I was an avid player of the previous MMO, Star Wars: Galaxies, which was fantastic.  As such, I always relate the cries for Old Republic stories to fandom for The Old Republic MMO.  That's not a positive connection to make.  That said, it could be enjoyable to watch.  I didn't expect to enjoy The Clone Wars, but it was much better than the concept would imply.

2) I have no interest in seeing backstory that could (should) have been included by now in the sequel trilogy.  I think they shied away from this in the sequels because it was a maligned element of the prequels and they were consciously avoiding making those mistakes again.  Still, it would be interesting to actually see the New Republic governing body of this era, as they have only been shown getting destroyed at the end of The Force Awakens.

3) I am not interested in watching a series about how Luke became not-Luke.  I'd prefer to see Luke build his Jedi Temple, and end the series somewhere satisfying before the incident with Ben Solo.  The prospect of keeping Mark Hamill employed is always nice, though, and he is an excellent voice actor.

Overall though, I'd prefer to see something else entirely.

I'm not one to lament the loss of the Expanded Universe into the non-canon Legends, but perhaps some of the best Legends could be made into one-offs, or into an anthology series.  I know, that's wishful thinking, and not everyone will agree on what was good and what was bad.  For example, I don't care much for the post-ROTJ Legends materials and Yuuzhan Vong invasion  My girlfriend, however, loathes the fact that Mara Jade has not been brought into canon.  I enjoyed things like Shadows of the Empire, the Thrawn trilogy, and the Legacy Era, and those would be interesting to see.  Also, stories about Boba Fett are always popular.  Similarly, I enjoyed the Darth Maul comic books, at one point dealing with the Black Sun criminal organization.

It's tough to consider new ideas in the Star Wars IP.  There are so many ways it can be done poorly, but also many ways to do it really well that I wonder if Disney is ready to try.  If The Last Jedi wasn't a Skywalker Saga film, and with a few tweaks to what is possible through the force, I would have enjoyed it much more.  It will be interesting to see what happens moving forward with Johnson venturing into new territory, and with Filoni taking on something new.  I honestly still haven't found the time for Rebels, but I know that I can be interested in things beyond the ordinary in Star Wars.  It's a vast galaxy.  Maybe the best thing is to separate ourselves from the current timeline and focus on a different area.  I personally think that Johnson may be taking us into the Unknown Regions for his trilogy.  I actually fear it, because I don't want to watch him butcher my expectations of what that could be like.

[Japanbuilder]

While some of these ideas sound interesting, they only serve to highlight how little Star Wars ultimately has to offer. Basically every suggestion has the "good vs. bad" theme all over it. And it being Star Wars we all know how that goes don't we? 

I think this is one of the reasons why Lucas always used to say there was no story after VI. 

Frankly, Star Wars is a brand that, if it hasn't already, is going to get pretty tiring the more of it we get. 

Just to drive that point home a bit more consider that in EPVII we saw Rey beat Kylo Ren. What exactly are we going to be getting in EPIX that is going to top that and tie it all up? Dark Side redeemed and brought back to the light? Well we saw that already in EPVI. Whatever the path will it be the "bad guys" winning this time so next time the good guys win? At what point does this road get too similar to keep people hooked? 

Now I love Star Wars, don't get me wrong, but if we are going by what each trilogy has actually brought to the table when its all said and done we don't really have much to show for it beyond the pattern already established by the OT. The PT was just a side reversal of outcomes and the outcome was known long before EPIII even hit theaters which made the point of telling them what exactly? Same goes for Rogue One. 

While it is a bummer, I do understand why a lot of people are now tuning out of this world altogether. 

[Forresto]

27 minutes ago, Japanbuilder said:

While some of these ideas sound interesting, they only serve to highlight how little Star Wars ultimately has to offer. Basically every suggestion has the "good vs. bad" theme all over it. And it being Star Wars we all know how that goes don't we? 

I think this is one of the reasons why Lucas always used to say there was no story after VI. 

Frankly, Star Wars is a brand that, if it hasn't already, is going to get pretty tiring the more of it we get. 

Just to drive that point home a bit more consider that in EPVII we saw Rey beat Kylo Ren. What exactly are we going to be getting in EPIX that is going to top that and tie it all up? Dark Side redeemed and brought back to the light? Well we saw that already in EPVI. Whatever the path will it be the "bad guys" winning this time so next time the good guys win? At what point does this road get too similar to keep people hooked? 

Now I love Star Wars, don't get me wrong, but if we are going by what each trilogy has actually brought to the table when its all said and done we don't really have much to show for it beyond the pattern already established by the OT. The PT was just a side reversal of outcomes and the outcome was known long before EPIII even hit theaters which made the point of telling them what exactly? Same goes for Rogue One. 

While it is a bummer, I do understand why a lot of people are now tuning out of this world altogether. 

The world is less black and white then it was in the EU and Rian Johnson's trilogy is definitely going to do something entirely different outside of just good and evil. 

The problem with the frustration is that people can't seem to get into the frame of mind that we're at the beginning of this huge new expanded universe waiting to be cracked open. If we were in the old EU, 2018 is 1993 or 1994. We're in early days and there's still a lot of room for variance, just wait for after episode 9, that's when we'll start to see the floodgates open more on what content we get.

As for being tired of it? Sure I can see Star Wars fatigue setting in. I think after the next spinoff after Solo and Episode 9, Disney should hold off on another movie for a few years.

Edited January 18, 2018 by Forresto

[x105Black]

I honestly don't think they should stop making movies using the Star Wars brand, but they could go to some truly innovative places when they finish the Skywalker Saga.  I feel like after Solo and IX, the doors are more wide open, and there will always be someone willing to throw their dollar towards it.

[Oky]

1 hour ago, Forresto said:

The world is less black and white then it was in the EU and Rian Johnson's trilogy is definitely going to do something entirely different outside of just good and evil.

Is it though?

Spoiler

At the end of TLJ, despite all his efforts to subvert the "Star Wars formula" we are still left in a good guys vs. bad guys situation, with Kylo having become the Sith master and Rey likely training herself to become a Jedi using the texts she stole, so if anything their roles are more black and white than ever before. Sure, there is a promise of more force sensitive children in the galaxy, but honestly who cares.

If their stories are going to be as uninspired as this trilogy, I have no interest in another EU surge.

Personally, I have no problem with the good vs. bad stories. It's kinda what makes Star Wars what it is and part of its charm is that feeling of being a classic fairytale set in space with wizards and sword fights and princesses and good and evil. It's how you execute them that counts. The PT certainly had its shortcomings, but its story was not one of them. While it had similar themes as the OT, it wasn't a straight-up copy of it like TFA and TLJ were. There are many examples in Legends that show how it could have been done better. People usually point to the Thrawn trilogy as the prime example of how a sequel trilogy should have been handled and I very much agree. It had the same heroes, same factions, same kind of good vs. bad story, but the world around them had changed and the main villain was so different from the ones that had come before that it felt new while still feeling like Star Wars. Plus it introduced other new characters that were actually interesting and endearing like Mara Jade.

Basically, what I'm saying is that the good vs. evil stories are fine as long as they don't follow any of the previous movies in the saga beat for beat.

2 hours ago, Japanbuilder said:

The PT was just a side reversal of outcomes and the outcome was known long before EPIII even hit theaters which made the point of telling them what exactly? Same goes for Rogue One. 

That's like saying what's the point in watching Titanic if you already know the ship is going to sink. Much like life itself, movies are about the journey, not the destination. The PT was about showing how exactly the galaxy got to such a dark place by the events of ANH and how someone destined for greatness can turn into one of the most evil beings in the galaxy. I think it's a bit more complex than a simple reversal of outcomes, but even if you look at it that way, it's still much better than the exact same outcomes which is what the sequel trilogy has been giving us so far.

As for Rogue One... yeah, that movie was pretty pointless. I think the idea was to give extra weight to Leia's mission to deliver the plans to the Alliance in ANH by showing the sacrifices the rebels had to make to get them, but it wasn't really needed.

[Schneeds]

On 1/13/2018 at 5:52 PM, Oky said:

Well, so much for that rumor. But it will be released soon according to a recent tweet from Ron Howard which started the rumor.

Yeah, all this talk about "killing the past" and all those dumb plot twists trying to break free of the mold, and yet all these movies still stick so close to the story of the OT that it seems pretty hypocritical. Let's hope the new trilogy will be a lot more original, although after how Rian handled this movie I don't have much faith.

Personally, I'm actually OK with an Obi-Wan movie as I wouldn't mind seeing more of Evan McGregor playing this character, although I'm probably biased since he's my favorite character.

So true.

Ewan McGregor dserves the chance at an Obi Wan movie. He was probably the best thing about the prequels, and without a doubt had the best acting performance. 

That being said, Disney will probably just find a way to character-assassinate him.

[Forresto]

On January 18, 2018 at 2:13 AM, Oky said:

Is it though?

  Hide contents

At the end of TLJ, despite all his efforts to subvert the "Star Wars formula" we are still left in a good guys vs. bad guys situation, with Kylo having become the Sith master and Rey likely training herself to become a Jedi using the texts she stole, so if anything their roles are more black and white than ever before. Sure, there is a promise of more force sensitive children in the galaxy, but honestly who cares.

Spoiler

 

If their stories are going to be as uninspired as this trilogy, I have no interest in another EU surge.

Personally, I have no problem with the good vs. bad stories. It's kinda what makes Star Wars what it is and part of its charm is that feeling of being a classic fairytale set in space with wizards and sword fights and princesses and good and evil. It's how you execute them that counts. The PT certainly had its shortcomings, but its story was not one of them. While it had similar themes as the OT, it wasn't a straight-up copy of it like TFA and TLJ were. There are many examples in Legends that show how it could have been done better.

People usually point to the Thrawn trilogy as the prime example of how a sequel trilogy should have been handled and I very much agree. It had the same heroes, same factions, same kind of good vs. bad story, but the world around them had changed and the main villain was so different from the ones that had come before that it felt new while still feeling like Star Wars. Plus it introduced other new characters that were actually interesting and endearing like Mara Jade.

Basically, what I'm saying is that the good vs. evil stories are fine as long as they don't follow any of the previous movies in the saga beat for beat.

That's like saying what's the point in watching Titanic if you already know the ship is going to sink. Much like life itself, movies are about the journey, not the destination. The PT was about showing how exactly the galaxy got to such a dark place by the events of ANH and how someone destined for greatness can turn into one of the most evil beings in the galaxy. I think it's a bit more complex than a simple reversal of outcomes, but even if you look at it that way, it's still much better than the exact same outcomes which is what the sequel trilogy has been giving us so far.

As for Rogue One... yeah, that movie was pretty pointless. I think the idea was to give extra weight to Leia's mission to deliver the plans to the Alliance in ANH by showing the sacrifices the rebels had to make to get them, but it wasn't really needed.

 

 

 Snoke and Kylo Ren are'nt a sith lord and so far Rey isnt a jedi. 

 And the idea that the Last Jedi is uninspired is utterly absurd and odd considering many find the film subversive. What Rian Johnson did with the Last Jedi was ensure that episode 9 has to be entirely original.

 The Last Jedi isnt a film that breaks the fairy tale of Star Wars, its one that breaks rose tinted goggles to show the beautiful truth of the original fairy tale, elevate it and and catapult it out from the mire of constant recycling of the Original Trilogy that much of the new canon and EU had become. 

 The Last Jedi is the anti The Force Awakens, which sucks if you're a fan of that film but great if you aren't.

 This whole movie is about balance in all its aspects morally, narratively, and thematically. The force is balance and this is the first Star Wars film to actually encapsulate that in every aspect of the movie. I'll list some examples because i'm not going to write a full essay analyzing the film without having the Blu-Ray to reference.

(Part of this is directed at you, part of this is directed at everyone else )

You have the negative side:

   You get Canto Bight, which is a casino symbolic of Finn, Rose, and Poe's all or nothing gamble to save the Resistance, that wouldn't work if set anywhere else. You get the black and white dress clothes of the manufacturers and arms dealers representing the Yin-Yang. They all support both sides of the war and have always done so throughout the history of the galaxy. They maintain a balance of perpetual warfare from which they profit. Nothing they do is positive to the galaxy, except to line their own pockets.

Canto Bight is fundamental to the plot because we get world building, mention of the industrial complex prevalent in all the EU, and a counterpoint to Rey's teachings. Cloud City by comparison is just a cool setting.

The neutral side:

•   DJ isnt a bad guy, he serves himself and does enough to keep a balance where he's either ingratiated with either side or useful enough and willing to serve no one wants to outright kill him. This leans either way, with him rescuing Finn and Rose to then selling them out. He was well intended and sincere in both. DJ is a reflection of Finn, (this movie is chock full of reflective images) whose later betrayal is Finn's realization that a pure balance serves nothing but yourself. 
•   Then you have the mirror cave on Ach-To, that has debatable meaning. Objectively the underground of the island represents the dark side while the top represents the light, a perfect balance hence why the Jedi probably built their first or one of their first temples there. As for Rey's vision? I believe the infinite Reys and the snapping of the finger represents that all of the force in all its aspects is connected. i'm sure its much deeper but I would need to see the film again.

The positive side:

•   Balance is nature and harmony and life and the positive part is pretty much explicitly stated in the film so I won't heavily get into it. 
•   Meanwhile you have Luke who finds purpose and ultimately enlightenment because of Rey's intervention, he rediscovers his balance that was thrown off by Ben Solo's betrayal. This movie makes the twin suns symbolic of the force and inner balance then just being a beautiful sunset, how is that not seen as an incredible send off? Its absolutely beautiful.

Symmetry:

•   The charge of the ski speeders that caps Poe's story arc is a direct mirror of the bomber run on the FO dreadnaught.
•   Kylo Ren reaches out to Rey earlier without a glove but later when he's fully committed to ruling the First Order he reaches out to her in the same way but with a glove.  
•   Kylo Ren is entirely about burning away the old to start things anew while Rey is concerned with honoring the past while forging a new path. 
•   The moment Snoke died it was clear Luke had to die, they were counterparts. However where Snoke dies horrifically in a violent manner, Luke transitions peacefully into the force. 
•   Luke's line  "What did you expect me to do? Take on the entire First Order with a laser sword?" and Rey responding "We could use a legend", which is exactly what the fans wanted and happens at the end which leads me to...

Luke and the Myth:

  Luke takes on the entire First Order with a lightsaber. So what if he isnt actually there, which more to the point is the most Jedi thing he could possibly do and the most badass move of any character in the franchise.

  Luke bests Kylo Ren and makes him look like an impetuous fool in front of thousands of First Order troops as well as shows Hux (a man who from now on will try to kill him) weakness. Luke undermines the First Order without striking a blow, that's some next level stuff.

  The force and the Jedi, as they're meant to be, has nothing to do with lightsaber battles or fighting. Its a path to understanding existence no different then Buddhism

 The Last Jedi isnt a film that breaks the fairy tale of Star Wars, its one that breaks rose tinted goggles to show the beautiful truth of the fairy tale and catapult it forward from the mire of constant retelling. 

As for the other chief Luke complaint regarding his "assassination" of Ben Solo. I'm going to quote Luke and bring in a well respected and temperate viewer of the Last Jedi in on this one.

"I saw darkness. I’d sensed it building in him. I’d seen it in moments during his training. But then I looked inside, and it was beyond what I ever imagined. Snoke had already turned his heart. He would bring destruction, and pain, and death, and the end of everything I love because of what he will become. And for the briefest moment of pure instinct, I thought I could stop it. It passed like a fleeting shadow. And I was left with shame, and with consequence. And the last thing I saw were the eyes of a frightened boy whose master had failed him." Luke

 

 

Callbacks:

 You want to talk about the Thrawn Trilogy (of which i'm a massive fan), then you have to include the sheer amount of callbacks it makes to the OT. The books retell entire scenes from the OT numerous times more so then the Last Jedi ever does.

  As it stands all the callback scenes to prior movies are done in a way that pushes this trilogy's narrative in a different direction, and are unique in their own right. 

  Snoke mirroring Palpatine is meant to pull the audience along who expected that Snoke was Big Papa Palpatine 2.0 so that his death is a shocking moment. 

  Crait isn't simply Hoth 2.0. Its very much its own battle and the fact the Empire developed Walkers such as AT-ATs is indicative that most large scale engagements are similar to Geonosis, Hoth, Crait, and Attollon where an invasion force needs to advance across a plain to confront the enemy.

Conclusion:

You're probably wondering why I wrote so much and I apologize, its a lot. However as someone who believes the Last Jedi is the best Star Wars film to come out since Empire Strikes Back (Rogue One and Return of the Jedi being close on its heels)  i'm going to defend it just as people are going to bash it. 

If you look at the ratio of people on this forum who hate the film far outweighs those like me and after countless pages of whinging on these forums (not from you) i'm going to write a short essay response. I think I get that right.

Rogue One:

Spoiler

Except it solves one massive, exhaust port, sized plot hole in why the Death Star has such a glaring weakness. Considering how much of a longstanding joke that is it was most definitely a question that needed to be addressed. 

Not only that but it provides a much cooler backstory for the Death Star then anything the EU ever provided and successfully gave us a look at the world of the Original Trilogy through the eyes of other characters.

Was it necessary? No, of course neither were the prequels or the sequels past Return of the Jedi. Take it to the next level and nothing beyond the movies is necessary, why even have Lego Star Wars sets?

To me it was just bonus. It connects to A New Hope beautifully, and adds a lot of depth to the original film. Does it survive on its own as a film? Yes. Is it an incredible film on its own? Maybe not but that was never really its point. 

Phew...that was much more then I ever expected to write  

[samurai-turtle]

I was just wondering if the Forces of Destiny stuff just not sell to well. I just picked up a (12 inch) Jyn Erso for $2 at Walmart. And from the looks of it the rest of them could be got at such cheap prices. 

[Forresto]

Just bought a hardcover of the Han Solo Trilogy, the original EU origin story for Han Solo, in order to see how it compares to the new film's take on the scoundrel. Read the first chapter and its pretty good so far. 

At a young age Han is a talented swoop racer. While the stories are going to be significantly different, Han Solo is still a drag racer in the new movie. Although I wonder if that has more to do with Harrison Ford in American Graffiti then anything else.

11 hours ago, samurai-turtle said:

I was just wondering if the Forces of Destiny stuff just not sell to well. I just picked up a (12 inch) Jyn Erso for $2 at Walmart. And from the looks of it the rest of them could be got at such cheap prices. 

I don't think Forces of Destiny really panned out well for them, they're cheaply made and not that compelling. 

Plus Star Wars is in an odd place where its so large its own merchandise is competing against itself amongst the various brands. 

http://fortune.com/2018/01/18/with-star-wars-toys-the-force-is-strong-but-retail-sales-arent/

[RetroInferno]

A lot of the merchandise is rotting on shelves, especially the hasbro stuff. Heck even the 2015 stuff doesn't sold that well and is still in a lot of shops today( Finn, Rey and Zuvio stuff especially ). 

Disney doesn't has to care for now; they already made their cash selling retailers their products.  

Now we are going to have unsold Rose action figures everywhere, I think I'm gonna need a scuba diver kit next time I visit a physical retail store. 

 

[Forresto]

16 minutes ago, RetroInferno said:

A lot of the merchandise is rotting on shelves, especially the hasbro stuff. Heck even the 2015 stuff doesn't sold that well and is still in a lot of shops today( Finn, Rey and Zuvio stuff especially ). 

Disney doesn't has to care for now; they already made their cash selling retailers their products.  

Now we are going to have unsold Rose action figures everywhere, I think I'm gonna need a scuba diver kit next time I visit a physical retail store. 

  Zuvio, the character who was to be...absolutely not significant in any conceivable way. Yet I still find so many of them. Rose too. 

Of course most egregious is the AT-ACT Pilot, my local Target has thirty of them...THIRTY! 

I'm so happy I found a Black Series 6 inch Thrawn this last Force Friday as I haven't seen another since.

The good figures never stay in stock from Ashoka to even basic Stormtroopers. 

 

 

[samurai-turtle]

I kinda got the feeling, to much merchandise is being made when I could spot the 3.5 inch figures go on clearance (in multiple places). But, getting a figure for 80% off seems like good deal to me. Even if I might not too interested in the line. I figured it can hangout with the other 12 inch Star Wars figures I have. (Truth be told, I will just keep all my 12 inch figures in the boxes.) 

[Forresto]

I feel dumb for only realizing now that Hoth is technically a desert planet.

Could Ice planets exist then? Wouldn't glacial planet be more apt for those?

[samurai-turtle]

5 hours ago, Forresto said:

I feel dumb for only realizing now that Hoth is technically a desert planet.

Could Ice planets exist then? Wouldn't glacial planet be more apt for those?

Any place that doesn't get a lot of rain could be considered a desert. 

Isn't one of Jupiter's moons an ice "planet"? 

[x105Black]

Lots of people forget that the Ewoks lived on the forest moon of the planet Endor.  The moon is also known as Endor, confusing the matter.

[Digger of Bricks]