Star Wars

[Artanis I]

Was the force asleep? Hasn't force usage already been "awakened" in the OT?

Maybe "The Order Awakens" is better if we're referring to Jedi. If we're not, then I don't want to know what the heck is meant by the force waking up.

I think the worst title is "The Empire Strikes Back". It's just dumb. "Attack Of The Clones" was unfitting for the movie, while a cool enigmatic title before its release. But I think that "The Phantom Menace" & "Return Of The Jedi" are the best titles.

[Venkefedo]

The Force went to sleep when Luke didn't teach anyone new and took himself out of the picture, or so some rumors suggest. Remember, it's been 30-something years... A whole lot of stuff could've happened. The title crawl will explain more, most likely

[Artanis I]

The Force went to sleep when Luke didn't teach anyone new and took himself out of the picture, or so some rumors suggest. Remember, it's been 30-something years... A whole lot of stuff could've happened. The title crawl will explain more, most likely

It's set that far into the future?!? Wow. I hope to find out when I watch the movie and not too far in advance, so when do I stop reading this thread so as to avoid spoilers?

[Brickadeer]

Was the force asleep? Hasn't force usage already been "awakened" in the OT?

Maybe "The Order Awakens" is better if we're referring to Jedi. If we're not, then I don't want to know what the heck is meant by the force waking up.

I think the worst title is "The Empire Strikes Back". It's just dumb. "Attack Of The Clones" was unfitting for the movie, while a cool enigmatic title before its release. But I think that "The Phantom Menace" & "Return Of The Jedi" are the best titles.

In my understanding, it's not so much about force usage. Rather, the force appeared to be something with a will of its own that acts through those who apply it, rather than the other way around. If I remember correctly, there are a few references in which Yoda or Obi Wan say that this or that is "the will of the force".

So the title "The Force Awakens" means something different than "The Order Awakens". (Plus, the force is a doubled-edged sword that has a dark side as well, and the title doesn't make clear which of both sides awakens, or if both sides awaken.)

[Artanis I]

Maybe the Midichlorians build an army and go on the rampage...

[Venkefedo]

It's set that far into the future?!? Wow. I hope to find out when I watch the movie and not too far in advance, so when do I stop reading this thread so as to avoid spoilers?

Of course it's set 30-something years in the future. Episode VI was released 31 years ago... it's not like Ford, Fisher, and Hamill could pretend to have only aged 5 or 10 years or something, and doing a "Tron: Legacy" CG-de-aging of them would look uber-creepy and is best used in some mystical Force-vision of the past, if used at all, and makeup/prosthetics can only go so far. It's natural to set the film 3 decades or more beyond the original trilogy. Gives us a sense of jumping into the middle of things, sort of, as we won't really know the status quo until the title crawl, and maybe not even then!

[Dinobrick]

I'm going to have to be careful here, as I am a notorious Disney hater.

That is a lame and boring title, your "rebels" show is lame, your "stormtroopers" look depressed and what with ignoring the bulk of the canon?!

[Darth Lurtz]

I'm going to have to be careful here, as I am a notorious Disney hater.

That is a lame and boring title, your "rebels" show is lame, your "stormtroopers" look depressed and what with ignoring the bulk of the canon?!

Lucas already did a terrible job of maintaining the canon before Disney acquired Star Wars, just look at the Clone Wars. At least now they'll adhere more to it with what they create. You're also not doing a great job of being "careful" by making unsupported claims designed to elicit responses from members.

Edited November 12, 2014 by Darth Lurtz

[Dinobrick]

Oh, so this is how its going to be. Sigh.

[Venkefedo]

I'm going to have to be careful here, as I am a notorious Disney hater.

That is a lame and boring title, your "rebels" show is lame, your "stormtroopers" look depressed and what with ignoring the bulk of the canon?!

Rebels is a fine show, no slower off to start than TCW (and folks who've seen next week's episode online already say it's the best yet, and a multi-part), "TFA" might make a lot more sense in context, much like TPM did (whatever you thought of the film, the title did make more sense after... AOTC, not so much), the stormtroopers only look depressed in Lego form; in the show itself they look like slightly McQuarrie-stylized OT stormies...

...and the bulk of the canon isn't being ignored at all. They redefined the canon to "movies & TCW, and everything new being produced & published from A New Dawn going forward". What they're ignoring are the lower tiers of canon comprising the previous EU, now classified as "Legends". I'll miss a lot of it, and continue to hope pieces of it work their way back into the canon via Rebels, Marvel's Star Wars comics, or other new books/shows/films.

Lucas already did a terrible job of maintaining the canon before Disney acquired Star Wars, just look at the Clone Wars. At least now they'll adhere more to it with what they create. You're also not doing a great job of being "careful" by making unsupported claims designed to elicit responses from members.

What about the Clone Wars? One of the few things that bugged me, clashing with previous Clone Wars material, was Quinlan Vos' personality; I didn't care to read any of the Clone Wars-era books that had been published before TCW began, so I only had the comics to go by which were uneven at best (due to lack of communication/cooperation with LFL, which is why clones besides Alpha-17 only got names in Obsession, and only a comparatively few issues of the comic featured clones w/ colored markings before ROTS hit--and even after ROTS hit, lots of clones were 'plain' in the final REPUBLIC issues and early Dark Times issues). There was also Genndy's cartoon, which was a ton of fun and had some terrific animation, particularly the duels and Anakin's starfighter battle before he chases Ventress (hey, look, he IS a great pilot! Wish the movies demonstrated that better!), but were also wildly over-the-top in many respects, and hard to seriously integrate into 'canon'.

TCW also probably miffed people with Bariss Offee's turncoat status, and the Mandalorians, but it took the SW Atlas writers and others very little effort to integrate the pacifist "New Mandalorian" movement in amongst the preexisting True Mandalorians/Death Watch rivalries; Traviss just overreacted, tho perhaps later RC books I didn't read would've painted a different picture that would've been retconned out.

In any case, TCW corrected a lot of problems the pre-TCW Clone Wars material had, again largely because ROTS was still in production & very little was relayed to the creators & editors of the material that could've fleshed out the direction of the war.

Sad as it may be, starting with a fairly blank slate might be the best way to go; I wouldn't have minded just massaging EU stuff to fit it in as official canon, but too many fans would've either hated that because they just hate the EU as a whole on principle, or because they wouldn't accept anything less than 100% faithfulness to EU chronology & details which would be viewed as very restrictive to newer creators.

[Dinobrick]

Well I'm glad you liked it, and i hope it works out for you, but as a Disney product, I have no interest in it.

[Artanis I]

as a Disney product, I have no interest in it.

.......................................so....................................what are you still doing in here & the other SW threads, now that it's all apparently Disneyfied and no good?

Being a troll? ..........................or?

[Robianco]

There's a perfect example of how good Lucas is at keeping a movie franchise going... it's called Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.

Disney know how to make films... whether that's an animated adventure (Pixar or otherwise) or live action (Pirates of the Caribbean etc)... they've hired a good director and the simple matter of creating physical models and environments instead of simply adding things onto green screen afterwards warms my heart.

The 'I hate Disney so it's all crap' will get boring very quickly.

[Dinobrick]

.......................................so....................................what are you still doing in here & the other SW threads, now that it's all apparently Disneyfied and no good?

Being a troll? ..........................or?

I'm sorry. Is my opinion heresy or..............?

[Robianco]

I'm sorry. Is my opinion heresy or..............?

I think it's more the nature of simply stating 'It's Disney so it's rubbish' across several threads that people may consider trolling.

Maybe explaining what it is about Disney that makes you dislike it and what difference you think it will mean to the SW universe would make people think differently...

[Dinobrick]

I think it's more the nature of simply stating 'It's Disney so it's rubbish' across several threads that people may consider trolling.

Maybe explaining what it is about Disney that makes you dislike it and what difference you think it will mean to the SW universe would make people think differently...

Ok. Well, first off, they pretty much said: if it's now cw and the movies, it didn't happen! Could you imagine being a sw writer, spending years fleshing out the sw universe, just for someone to say: "it didn't happen, we nullified your novels".

[Robianco]

They've been editing and messing about with the EU for a long time before Disney... Fett's background is a prime example. I think most people still consider things such as Zahn's work to be a valid part of SW lore... whether the SW team at Disney directly access it or not. It's such a large universe with so many people adding to it that it's difficult to keep track.

If we look at how Lucas handled the PT I don't think we can worry about whether Disney need to do any better. It is what it is. I personally though the Jedi's were poorly written in the PT... they were weak and just generally a bit rubbish. Same as the character development as a whole. I never cared what happened to Anakin at all... didn't care about his fall to the Dark Side... his relationship with Padme... any of it as it was handled so badly. I actually think the whole character of Jango was a massively ham fisted attempt at having a Fett character shoehorned into the PT for no reason other than people think Boba Fett is cool. The Clones were an easy way to get an army built but then the OT kind of points at Stormtroopers being recruited and are individuals rather than a massive gathering of the same clone... and the way it was put together as a shiny CGI-fest also didn't work for me... The battle of Yavin was hairy blokes shaking a box with Mark Hamill sat in it pretending to be flying in space... and it worked better than the whole battle above Naboo with a 6yr old flying a fighter into a control ship and ultimately winning the 'war'.

As yet the universe hasn't been expanded upon by Disney except for 5 episodes of Rebels and that's only introduced a few people that could easily have fit in with any timeline.

Episode VII will be the clearest view of what their vision will be. 30 years into the future pretty much puts it beyond the Thrawn trilogy in regards to time so there'll be no overwriting of that (I include Thrawn Trilogy as along with Shadows of the Empire I consider it pretty much canon whether Disney includes it or not)... We all know Luke falls to the Dark Side at some point and is then redeemed. The rumours of storyline are still very much blurred at the moment so we don't know where it will go.

I think we need to give it time... let them do their thing. I think the comments about Lucas being all powerful and doing what he likes is right. Ultimately it WAS his... and he could... and did.. do things the way he wanted it... whether WE liked them or not. (No... Greedo did not shoot first and Jabba's palace was not a cabaret). The Clone Wars was actually better then the PT for me... but I'm not going to worry about it being cancelled... or whether it's considered canon or not... I'm just waiting to see what happens on the big screen next and where Han, Luke, Leia et al take us.

Edited November 12, 2014 by Robianco

[Dinobrick]

Well, then, let us wait and see.

[Ultron]

Well, then, let us wait and see.

Then don't turn down a movie before you see it.

[Tariq j]

^^

My point as well. Give Disney a chance. They may have produced films in the past that you have not enjoyed for whatever reason. But I'm sure they'll do a good job of the new Trilogy.

[Fives]

Also, Disney hasn't just completely disregarded the EU. Essentially, its an alternate universe. Fans can interpret however they want. The new movies and shows are the 'canon' universe, but anyone can modify canon for their own purposes ( i.e. personal 'head-canon'). Its a smart move by Disney. They haven't discredited the works of the EU, nor have they disregarded their importance to the majority of the fanbase.

And as far as continuity is concerned, we should be thanking Disney for what they done. When Lucas was in control, everything was a mess. I remember reading something from an interview with Dave Filoni, and Filoni said that Lucas once told him "continuity is for wimps". If thats how Lucas viewed his universe, then I say good riddance. If he had stayed in control, the stories would've just gotten worse and more butchered. With the new team of people whose only job is to maintain continuity throughout all the mediums of storytelling that Disney will be using (films, tv, books, comics, video games, etc.), we as a group of fans finally have a single streamlined story, made easy to follow.

To make blanket statements about Disney and how there will only be bad things to come is basically saying "This isn't going the way I personally wanted things to go, therefore its all garbage", which, to me, seems very close-minded. Thats just my two cents on the matter.

[Venkefedo]

Episode VII will be the clearest view of what their vision will be. 30 years into the future pretty much puts it beyond the Thrawn trilogy in regards to time so there'll be no overwriting of that (I include Thrawn Trilogy as along with Shadows of the Empire I consider it pretty much canon whether Disney includes it or not)... We all know Luke falls to the Dark Side at some point and is then redeemed. The rumours of storyline are still very much blurred at the moment so we don't know where it will go.

I think we need to give it time... let them do their thing. I think the comments about Lucas being all powerful and doing what he likes is right. Ultimately it WAS his... and he could... and did.. do things the way he wanted it... whether WE liked them or not. (No... Greedo did not shoot first and Jabba's palace was not a cabaret). The Clone Wars was actually better then the PT for me... but I'm not going to worry about it being cancelled... or whether it's considered canon or not... I'm just waiting to see what happens on the big screen next and where Han, Luke, Leia et al take us.

I don't think anyone can assume the Thrawn Trilogy will remain untouched and part of the new canon... for one thing, Leia's not having twins named Jacen & Jaina. Sure, some of the new characters may be Leia's offspring, but I'm not sure we'll get twins, male & female, both meant to be 25 as VII begins (if it begins exactly 30 years after ROTJ), but I am hoping for a reference to some sort of "Thrawn incident" happening between the trilogies (according to most rumors, Luke only goes 'missing' about 10 years before the ST begins, so he'd still have been active in the galaxy around the time such a "Thrawn incident" may have occurred, 5 years after ROTJ).

Another thing: we do not know that Luke fell to the dark side and was redeemed. That was Dark Empire, and while a fairly decent story on its own (at least, the first mini-series was), it was something of a train-wreck for the rest of the budding EU, and not a great tie-in with ROTJ ("I'll never turn to the dark side"...) especially with the reasoning of "I must understand why my father turned to the dark side". Uh, why didn't you just ask his ghost after ROTJ ended? Like, once the party had died down, go have a chat with your Ghostly Trio and fill in some blanks. Or ask R2, he was there for about everything, and never had his memory wiped. All the rumors say are that Luke's state, light or dark, is somewhat ambiguous when he's encountered... but come on, it's Luke. They're not gonna Vader him. Doing that would be too much like Dark Empire, which would make it not an original story, something they've claimed from the moment VII was announced.

[Jedi-Bendu]

The Force went to sleep when Luke didn't teach anyone new and took himself out of the picture, or so some rumors suggest.

I bet it's this.

Still, what happened to Force users like Kanan, Ezra, Ahsoka.....as far as we know they're still alive. And I don't think they'll be killed off in a show thats mainly aimed at kids.

Regarding Lucas/Disney: my biggest fear is that now Lucas is no longer a big part of the new SW movies they'll kill someone of the old cast. I don't trust Larry Kasdan as he wanted to ill of someone (Lando for instance) at the beginning of RotJ.

Killing off Han, Luke, Leia, Chewie, R2 or 3PO is the worst they can do. That would be like killing off James Bond....or Indy. They have been popular for 35+ years. They have survived and deserve 'eternal life'.

Take Casablanca: at the end Bogey and Rains walk away...and we hear that classic line:

Imagine had been a sequel to Casablanca many years later in which one of them got killed.....Everyone wants to remembers these classic characters walking away....not dead in a coffin!

They kind of did the same thing with Indy4: In Indy 3 we saw Indy, Brody, Sallah and Henry sr. riding away......great ending!

Then came Indy4 in which they pointed out that Brody and Henry sr had died......I know Denholm Elliott (Brody) died many years ago and Sean Connery (Henry sr.) quit acting, but IMHO it would have been better if they hadn't mentioned those 2 characters at all or if Indy or someone else had said that they were away for some reason.

Edited November 12, 2014 by Jedi-Bendu

[Borador]

And as far as continuity is concerned, we should be thanking Disney for what they done. When Lucas was in control, everything was a mess. I remember reading something from an interview with Dave Filoni, and Filoni said that Lucas once told him "continuity is for wimps". If thats how Lucas viewed his universe, then I say good riddance. If he had stayed in control, the stories would've just gotten worse and more butchered. With the new team of people whose only job is to maintain continuity throughout all the mediums of storytelling that Disney will be using (films, tv, books, comics, video games, etc.), we as a group of fans finally have a single streamlined story, made easy to follow.

He really said that? I have to wonder how he went from the creator/writer (and I think director too, correct me if I'm wrong, I'm having a brain fart) of what is often considered one of the best movies of all time, and then several other classics, to "continuity is for wimps"? What happened? I almost don't believe it.

[Venkefedo]

I think Luke will be killed off...eventually. I'm just pulling more for a Yoda-style "old age" ending, whether it happens in IX ("I'm not that eld") or, my preference, in the probably-inevitable Episode XII, set another 20 or 30 years later. Luke's power in the Force might keep him looking only 70-something, but by that point maybe the galaxy and the new Jedi heritage is in a good place, and he'll feel like Gandalf, Frodo, etc--his job is done. Time to join his father, teachers, friends in the Force. IX would likely be too soon for that. It can even happen between trilogies, maybe, so he's just used as a Force-ghost in the next set.

Many expect Han will go out in this one, partly because of Ford's old idea of just having Han not be saved from carbonate since he'd just sacrificed himself and Ford didn't see anywhere else for the character to go, and partly because they think that's why Ford supposedly has a larger role in the film... lots of screen-time before a big sendoff.

In any case, I tend to lean towards a "happily ever after" kinda end for the OT heroes, but something will happen, at some point. As for Indy... he needs to be turned into James Bond. Time to recast, and set some new adventures back in the 30s and 40s, not remakes, nothing even really clashing with the others... just good old fashioned adventure by the name of Indiana Jones.

Regarding other Force users like Kanan, Ezra, Ahsoka... I think by series' end, Kanan might die, sacrificing himself to save his friends sometime after finally becoming a full Jedi Knight (wouldn't surprise me if, over the course of the series, Yoda gets in touch with him and helps him out a bit, giving him a "...then, a Jedi will you be" kinda speech, foreseeing that Kanan may not survive some upcoming encounter--which, for all I know, could be stealing the Death Star plans just before ANH begins). Any others may survive, but may not be fully trained (tho it's also very possible that Yoda isn't as omniscient as many think he is when he tells Luke "last of the Jedi will you be"; could just be Yoda didn't want Luke passing the buck to another Jedi just because he didn't want to kill his own father). It's possible that whatever happens with Luke spooks him so much it causes some sort of catastrophe within the Force--not like the dark-side stain that caused the imbalance of the PT, but something that maybe causes the (brace yourselves!) midichlorians to become mostly silent to those who can feel the Force, so most other Force-users besides Luke suddenly have their abilities severely impaired for years, but maybe the villain still hears the call, and is seeking out Luke to try to reawaken the Force for the villain's own ends.