HA Bricks in Legal Troubles

[Toastie]

2 hours ago, dtomsen said:

was faster than me

But your reply was much more precise - and I totally agree on your assesment of the quality of the bricks! The motors and the BT hub are so nicely designed ... I hear TLG: "But these tiny plugs and headers are so wobbly to operate and prone to failure" ... as if their 9V cables, despite these rock-solid connectors, did not deteriorate into utter garbage, after 10+ years. Yes, not all, there are exceptions, of course. Here is to TLG's QA department .

And yes, I know, really no one, even not the QA gods of TLG can read the magic glass sphere's predictions on cable insulation lifetime, but then: Please don't brag so much about being the chosen ones, when it comes to quality ...   

@Phil B: Hey, your argument still holds - don't talk about it, just do it! They may even have an agreement with TLG - their stuff is used in schools. And should be. Who knows. 

All the best,
Thorsten

[JaBaCaDaBra]

11 minutes ago, Toastie said:

used in schools.

Where they pull out their hairs after the umpteenth unavoidable software update that makes their projects useless.
Not mentioning older education sets that render totally useless after only a few years.

[Toastie]

5 minutes ago, JaBaCaDaBra said:

umpteenth unavoidable software update that makes their projects useless.

Yeah, when it comes to TLG ... 

There are no software updates for CB stuff (as far as I know), as they keep it bare-bones simple, and still real world relevant - after all, kids of nearly every age nowadays know how to pair a game pad with their play station. Or BT LE headsets with their cell phone. And should - the world is changing. Do I like it? No! Does it happen? Yes.

I madly love old stuff - cables, keyboards, CRTs, 16k of memory, things that last forever. Well, define "forever" and the benefit of it. We don't have to adapt to every piece of cool stuff the apples, androids, and windows do throw at us, certainly not in schools. But school experiments that ran and run forever may become irrelevant rather sooner than later. Cool to know, how a current meter works with technology from pre-1900, magnetism and what not, but it could also be educational to figure out that a BT LE device also works for controlling modern electrical equipment, like a garage door motor.

Just my take!

Best wishes,
Thorsten

P.S.: Just restoring a TI99/4A from 1983, I brought back from a trip to the US - wow, what an incredible piece of engineering!!! It is total fun.

[JaBaCaDaBra]

10 hours ago, Toastie said:

figure out that a BT LE device

You first have to know the basics of electricity...

Maybe we should all step over to Fischer Technik where they DO learn kids these basics.

[Toastie]

11 minutes ago, JaBaCaDaBra said:

Fischer Technik

oh yes(!!!) - the "gramophone" I built back in the days for my parents (wooden case painted black, rather large horn made from cardboard and painted in glaring gold-bronze; the pickup was a fixing pin glued to a sandwich paper membrane held in a Penaten Creme can ) - mostly ruining old vinyls when running - had a Fischer Technik made mechanism inside. FT is so cool.

And yes, they have all the wiring and stuff to learn about electricity.

But guess what: They also do BLE; their set/s is/are called "Plus Control Set". Not to confuse with TLGs "sets needing the Control +" app, of course:

https://www.fischertechnik.de/de-de/produkte/spielzeug/plus/563931-control-set

But I agree - the FT portfolio regarding STEM is really nice. 

Best,
Thorsten   

[MAB]

On 6/10/2024 at 12:00 PM, dtomsen said:

Many other brands do have licenced themes, everyday stuff like City and niche themes like trains, for example Mould King and BlueBrixx. Cobi, Gobricks, CaDA and others aren't exactly small manufacturers anymore either even though they are all clearly dwarfed by TLG.

And that is why they would need to have a huge licensed portfolio to make a dent in LEGO's market dominance.

On 6/10/2024 at 12:00 PM, dtomsen said:

The crowd funding is primarily to show support to Hein Alkema himself and help him survive financially, not to make TLG notice. What a bizarre take.

It is not my take. Read the comment I was responding to, which was "... the only way I can see to make our point is to put our money where our mouths are and contribute to the crowd fund (which I have just done). This may demonstrate to TLG in  the only terms they (and their lawyers) understand, our disapproval of the punitive action they have taken against a co-participant in our hobby."

On 6/10/2024 at 4:25 PM, CP5670 said:

This is true but the rules have never really been enforced, I have seen many people use clone bricks at Brickfair and Brickworld. The problem is a lot of the big shows are supported by TLG in the form of free sets, which would go away if clones were explicitly allowed. But they have removed many other types of support over the years (they used to have big discounts at local Lego stores for show exhibitors back in the day) and I could see this disappearing anyway. In the long run it's much better for fans to not be so dependent on TLG.

LEGO can take away even more than the free sets or other in-kind support. Brickfair could have to be labelled Brickfair - Building Block Fan Expo instead of Brickfair - LEGO Fan Expo, Similarly Brickworld could lose its LEGO Recognized Fan Convention status. Like it or not, losing the LEGO name in their advertising would presumably lose them a lot of attendees.

[dtomsen]

1 hour ago, MAB said:

LEGO can take away even more than the free sets or other in-kind support. Brickfair could have to be labelled Brickfair - Building Block Fan Expo instead of Brickfair - LEGO Fan Expo, Similarly Brickworld could lose its LEGO Recognized Fan Convention status. Like it or not, losing the LEGO name in their advertising would presumably lose them a lot of attendees.

Not necessarily so.

One of the biggest AFOL events in the world currently, Skærbæk Fan Weekend, was called LEGO Fan Weekend when TLG actually ran the event itself. Since then the event has become an even bigger success with a lot more attendees and with less direct support from TLG. So it's possible and might even be advantageous.

But yeah, the LEGO name has a lot of sway in our AFOL community. So much so that many AFOLs don't know or simply won't acknowledge (out of fear losing said privileges) that there are lots of opportunities elsewhere from brands to bricks to sets to supplement to exhibtions and beyond. There is whole world out there full of possibilities. And HA Bricks provided just that, new possibilities.

Edited June 12 by dtomsen

[Phil B]

As long as they stop calling themselves AFOLs and start using the term AFOBs, I have no issues with people losing their affinity with the LEGO brand ... 

[MAB]

15 minutes ago, dtomsen said:

But yeah, the LEGO name has a lot of sway in our AFOL community. So much so that many AFOLs don't know or simply won't acknowledge (out of fear losing said privileges) that there are lots of opportunities elsewhere from brands to bricks to sets to supplement to exhibtions and beyond. There is whole world out there full of possibilities. And HA Bricks provided just that, new possibilities.

Remember too that many LEGO fans do not MOC. I doubt that the other opportunities matter to a large proportion of AFOLs as they are fans of LEGO. While HA Bricks provided some opportunities for a very niche group, it is true that the impact he had was probably negligible on LEGO's market. But it was still wrong to claim what he was claiming about 100% LEGO and he should have stopped selling the modified parts as LEGO branded when first warned. Yet he also had the opportunity to do exactly the same thing as you are advocating - to use other brands and switch from using LEGO branded ones, and if he had done so, then he would have been fine. It is strange really. He was providing other opportunities for parts that were not strictly LEGO, yet he stuck to using LEGO parts and of course made the error of marketing them as LEGO.

As to fairs, I think that in the last 10 and possibly even just the last 5 years, there has been a huge change in the AFOL community. Most AFOLs I met 20 years ago were into LEGO at least partly to build their own designs, 10 years ago it was similar but now, I reckon there are more set collectors than MOCers. I have no doubt the MOC community has still grown in that time, just nowhere near as fast as the number of adults that buy LEGO sets for themselves. The number of shows now is also huge, it used to be that they were a couple of times in a year type event in the UK. Now, there are probably about 8-10 every month. Most are now run by independent businesses that move their displays around the country and/or have local MOCers displaying. But they are quite strict, they use the LEGO name in their advertising and have rules that only official LEGO sets, parts and minifigures can be sold and only LEGO parts can be used in MOCs. Presumably, even though LEGO is not involved at all, they are only allowed to use the name because it is LEGO only. If LEGO found out that traders were selling clone brands or builders were using clone brands, then I imagine they take away the right to use their name in advertising. And the "generic brick toy festival" doesn't sound quite as enticing. At least here, there is a long way to go if LEGO is ever to lose its dominance.

 

[dtomsen]

5 hours ago, Phil B said:

As long as they stop calling themselves AFOLs and start using the term AFOBs, I have no issues with people losing their affinity with the LEGO brand ... 

That's the point. I haven't lost affinity with the LEGO brand (at least not most of it). Which is why I love all of the wonderful 3rd party supplements available nowadays which greatly enhance my own enjoyment of LEGO in general and trains especially.
And not only me but also seemingly the general public at exhibitions.
I have found some affinity with other brands as well tho. But these different affinities are not mutual exclusive and do not in any way diminish my overall enjoyment of building with bricks in general. And why should it?

5 hours ago, MAB said:

Remember too that many LEGO fans do not MOC. I doubt that the other opportunities matter to a large proportion of AFOLs as they are fans of LEGO. While HA Bricks provided some opportunities for a very niche group, it is true that the impact he had was probably negligible on LEGO's market. But it was still wrong to claim what he was claiming about 100% LEGO and he should have stopped selling the modified parts as LEGO branded when first warned. Yet he also had the opportunity to do exactly the same thing as you are advocating - to use other brands and switch from using LEGO branded ones, and if he had done so, then he would have been fine. It is strange really. He was providing other opportunities for parts that were not strictly LEGO, yet he stuck to using LEGO parts and of course made the error of marketing them as LEGO.

The bitter part is that Hein probably was way too much of a LEGO purist to even consider alternative brands and kept the supplements to a bare minimum. And also why he proudly (and naively) displayed how pure LEGO his sets were 

5 hours ago, MAB said:

As to fairs, I think that in the last 10 and possibly even just the last 5 years, there has been a huge change in the AFOL community. Most AFOLs I met 20 years ago were into LEGO at least partly to build their own designs, 10 years ago it was similar but now, I reckon there are more set collectors than MOCers. I have no doubt the MOC community has still grown in that time, just nowhere near as fast as the number of adults that buy LEGO sets for themselves. The number of shows now is also huge, it used to be that they were a couple of times in a year type event in the UK. Now, there are probably about 8-10 every month. Most are now run by independent businesses that move their displays around the country and/or have local MOCers displaying. But they are quite strict, they use the LEGO name in their advertising and have rules that only official LEGO sets, parts and minifigures can be sold and only LEGO parts can be used in MOCs. Presumably, even though LEGO is not involved at all, they are only allowed to use the name because it is LEGO only. If LEGO found out that traders were selling clone brands or builders were using clone brands, then I imagine they take away the right to use their name in advertising. And the "generic brick toy festival" doesn't sound quite as enticing. At least here, there is a long way to go if LEGO is ever to lose its dominance.

Many good points 

Other generic or non-LEGO centric shows may not be that enticing for the average AFOLs collectors and even generic MOCers but some definitely are for us LEGO train builders, especially model railroad ones.
Some of them are even huge and although they might not be LEGO centric the general public still know and love LEGO and basically any brickbuilt stuff.

Edited June 12 by dtomsen

[sporadic]

17 hours ago, Toastie said:

P.S.: Just restoring a TI99/4A from 1983, I brought back from a trip to the US - wow, what an incredible piece of engineering!!! It is total fun.

I cut my software teeth on a TI99.  Learned Basic, then Assembly, then C all before I hit college.  Great little 'puter.  Less compute than a car key fob today, but I used every bit of what it had for years after it was made 'obsolete' by the IBM PCs and the Amigas and the Macs. 

These days, my kids are doing Scratch and programming Arduinos and Raspberry Pis in Python.  My 'uphill both ways' stories are all about the huge hurdles we had programming back in the 80s ("See, there was this little reservoir in the back that you put water in to drive the steam turbine....")  Good times.

 

[JaBaCaDaBra]

6 hours ago, Toastie said:

And yes, they have all the wiring and stuff to learn about electricity.

Yes
Problem is that TLG forgot about that.

Oh well kids nowadays call themselves technical when they manage to connect their playstation to the tv

while we were making a radio from almost nothing.

[Toastie]

28 minutes ago, JaBaCaDaBra said:

Problem is that TLG forgot about that.

Absolutely true.

28 minutes ago, JaBaCaDaBra said:

we were making a radio from almost nothing

Also true - however, even these radio stations will phase out rather soon ... it is all crazy. Analog TV is already dead where I live ... just snow, when you tune in.

 

32 minutes ago, sporadic said:

Good times.

I am tempted to say "Those were the best days in my life", however, as I found an IBM XT (with two 5 1/4" disc drives), an Atari 1040 ST, and a C64 recently in a storage room in my institute, and I still have my ZX81 and ZX Spectrum and now got this 99er ... these are the best days in my life 

Best,
Thorsten

[JaBaCaDaBra]

1 hour ago, Toastie said:

Absolutely true.

Also true - however, even these radio stations will phase out rather soon ... it is all crazy. Analog TV is already dead where I live ... just snow, when you tune in.

 

I am tempted to say "Those were the best days in my life", however, as I found an IBM XT (with two 5 1/4" disc drives), an Atari 1040 ST, and a C64 recently in a storage room in my institute, and I still have my ZX81 and ZX Spectrum and now got this 99er ... these are the best days in my life 

Best,
Thorsten

Great,
I have my VIC-20 still around, with umpteen original game and extension cartridges.
A VIC with 64K dynamic RAM (not possible) ohhh yes offcourse that is possible...
And how about the refesh? the VIC can't handle dynamic ram.
True BUT......it DOES have a line and colorburst generator coming from the videochip..
15625 Hz... works great

Sorry kids, grandpa's here
Magnus Dominum Technico

[JopieK]

Not the same, but somewhat similar...

[JaBaCaDaBra]

36 minutes ago, JopieK said:

Not the same, but somewhat similar...

Louis better keeps his $^%$^&**& mouth shut with his overpriced environment %$%^*&^* junk

Talking about copyright infringement...
https://www.hbvl.be/cnt/dmf20170420_02842434

[JopieK]

On 6/16/2024 at 5:17 PM, JaBaCaDaBra said:

Louis better keeps his $^%$^&**& mouth shut with his overpriced environment %$%^*&^* junk

Talking about copyright infringement...
https://www.hbvl.be/cnt/dmf20170420_02842434

Haha, so now we can give our better part an original for a fraction of the price of the copy ;)

[Pelzer117]

On 6/16/2024 at 4:39 PM, JopieK said:

Not the same, but somewhat similar...

Very interesting. But I assume the main difference is, that this guy operates under US legal and HA Bricks under European. And so far as I know, its totally legal in the US to „modify“ things.

Btw.: does anyone know how HA Bricks will come back? With Go Bricks or so?

Edited June 22 by Pelzer117

[JopieK]

5 hours ago, Pelzer117 said:

Btw.: does anyone know how HA Bricks will come back? With Go Bricks or so?

No idea at this point...

[MAB]

On 6/12/2024 at 5:01 PM, JaBaCaDaBra said:

Oh well kids nowadays call themselves technical when they manage to connect their playstation to the tv

while we were making a radio from almost nothing.

I think that depends on the parents. My kids enjoy playing around with arduino, rasberry pi and other programmable boards. We frequently tear down old electronic toys bought for next to nothing from charity shops for motors, speakers and sound boards. 

[Toastie]

Oh, it sure does depend on the parents! Very much. There are at least two pillars, this dependence or let's say support rests on, isn't it? Education and money. Same here in my family. Money has become far less of an issue as compared to when I was young: Back then, money was all the issue, always. My parents had no clue, none, what a TV set looked from the inside and computers were not invented back then as if they'd ever cared; they worked with their hands 12+ hours a day.

12 hours ago, MAB said:

arduino, rasberry pi and other programmable boards

... certainly don't come for free, nor does the time you need to educate yourself using or teaching "them".

Cool when you can walk into charity stores and chase these items, but it tells, doesn't it? That is what I feel, when I am browsing for such marvels in these stores - others go for cheap clothing.

Yes, it does depend on the parents, but that was a bit of a shortcut, as far as I am concerned. I believe there is more (well, there always is ...) - there is oneself. With all you have, that comes for free. I know: Dream on, pal. But that is what drives me.

Best,
Thorsten