42177 Mercedes G500 4X4

[NV Lego technic]

57 minutes ago, Sokolov Edward said:

I don’t want to upset you, but the direct purpose of this model is to stand beautifully on a shelf, and not to roll it on the floor. You are the only one who cares about the effect of the differential lock on the ride. The design of the differential lock in the rear axle worried me only in terms of replacing part 4159 with an adequate design while maintaining functionality.

IMO all manual models with suspension are designed to be pressed and watched bouncing back. Also, this would be useful to someone who's looking to modify the set, or just a random question that has popped up.

[Mikdun]

13 hours ago, Urbal said:

One thing that wasn’t mentioned at all by any reviewer so far - how does it feel to roll the Gwagen with central/both diffs locked, any resistance windup effect?… Any observations are welcome, as I still not sure what to expect with Lego wheel traction, and hence whether it makes sense to include locking diffs into manual models

As long as yu will drive straight there is no difference.

When you start turning you will feel more resistance and finally wheel slipping.

[Urbal]

Guys, with all due respect there is too much generalisation in the replies, and no, you won’t upset me in the slightest :)

I know what to expect from 1:10 scale model - they could be perfectly playable for a kid (or parent :)), and 42110 Defender was just that (especially with the revised gearbox) - unlike bigger 1:8 supercar brothers with their minimal clearance and no HoG. I think 42177 was praised here for the lack of gearbox not least because of the improved reliability comparing to 42110 Defender - which doesn’t make sense if you only care about the looks on the shelf…

Anyhow, I believe that ‘play’ is important thing for manual Lego off-roaders line, represented by 42069, 42110 and now 42177, all designed by Milan, and unofficially sitting underneath supercar range as functionally packed yet approachable sibling to a more aesthetics focused ‘supercar’.

Ok, I do appreciate that it could be only my humble understanding of Lego technic offroader/supercar lineups. But my question is there, and I believe it is legit as any other question addressing user experience with the model - don’t think there is anything wrong with it :)

My take on this is the following: if ride resistance is there with the diffs locked, then it would be a good showcase for differential as it is - so that the one (especially younger user) can learn a thing or two about the purpose of diffs while rolling the model over flat grippy surface vs a blanket (the latter should minimise the effect and be almost like off-road imitation with free wheel skidding caused by windup). As many things in Lego Technic cars are shown indirectly - take fake engine pistons for example, they are fake for an obvious reason being moved by the wheels, not vice versa as they are in real life, but it shows the concept of drivetrain. Locked diffs could be similar reverse-engineered demonstration to appreciate the effect of open diffs for somebody who took them as granted.

Now, the key word here is ‘could’ - hence my question to check the reality

13 minutes ago, Mikdun said:

As long as yu will drive straight there is no difference.

When you start turning you will feel more resistance and finally wheel slipping.

EDIT: Thank you @Mikdun, that's the feedback I was looking for... Sure thing when rolling straight there is no difference. What I'm curious is how big the circle/curve shold be to feel the resistance. Also, may I ask whether your experience based on same size/weight vehicles as 42177 (roughly 1:10 scale)?

Edited August 8 by Urbal

[Sokolov Edward]

33 minutes ago, Urbal said:

Guys, with all due respect there is too much generalisation in the replies, and no, you won’t upset me in the slightest :)

I know what to expect from 1:10 scale model - they could be perfectly playable for a kid (or parent :)), and 42110 Defender was just that (especially with the revised gearbox) - unlike bigger 1:8 supercar brothers with their minimal clearance and no HoG.

If you want to study and show the operation of the differential and its locking, then it is better not to roll the car, but to turn the wheels upside down and test the rotation of the wheels in different modes - this will be more clear. The option with motors for demonstration will not be entirely adequate. I have built drift models of different sizes and I can say that a differential lock is not necessary for models of this size. The quality of drifting depends on the shape of the tires (the Ford F-150 is the best option) and on the weight of the model and on the power of the engines (the buggy motor is unrivaled). If you want an interesting model for drifting, I can recommend assembling a Сada Arctic Сat yourself on tires from a Ford F-150.

[mobi]

A good comparison video

 

[Urbal]

3 hours ago, Sokolov Edward said:

If you want to study and show the operation of the differential and its locking, then it is better not to roll the car, but to turn the wheels upside down and test the rotation of the wheels in different modes - this will be more clear. The option with motors for demonstration will not be entirely adequate. I have built drift models of different sizes and I can say that a differential lock is not necessary for models of this size. The quality of drifting depends on the shape of the tires (the Ford F-150 is the best option) and on the weight of the model and on the power of the engines (the buggy motor is unrivaled). If you want an interesting model for drifting, I can recommend assembling a Сada Arctic Сat yourself on tires from a Ford F-150.

Well, I guess drifting implies locked rear diff, or did you mean that even being unlocked you have a good drifting car? Thank you for the drifting car recommendation, but I'm keen to have a more versatile manual offroader experience, don't plan to embrace buggy motor/Buwizz territory :) 

[Sokolov Edward]

35 minutes ago, Urbal said:

Well, I guess drifting implies locked rear diff, or did you mean that even being unlocked you have a good drifting car? Thank you for the drifting car recommendation, but I'm keen to have a more versatile manual offroader experience, don't plan to embrace buggy motor/Buwizz territory :) 

You should be aware that Lego models do not completely imitate the behavior of real mechanisms. There are many problems here - large backlashes in gears and steering mechanisms, disproportionate weight of models, friction, etc. Even the same model will move completely differently when manually controlled and after motorization. IMHO Lego models begin to drift due to friction in the differential at high engine speeds - I assembled a model with a gearbox and clutch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uyuv2fCxAGM - at a reduced speed it drove like it was on rails, and at elevated speed she drifted recklessly.

A large collection of various mechanisms is here https://rebrickable.com/users/2in1/mocs/

Edited August 8 by Sokolov Edward

[grum64]

I’ve always thought the G Wagon would be a great candidate for Lego and now it’s here I’m very pleased. Will be definitely be adding it to my collection soon.

[Mikdun]

6 hours ago, Urbal said:

What I'm curious is how big the circle/curve shold be to feel the resistance.

That's very hard to say as id depends on what surface you will run it.

Generally the more steering lock the more it will be felt.

6 hours ago, Urbal said:

Also, may I ask whether your experience based on same size/weight vehicles as 42177 (roughly 1:10 scale)?

Sadly no. On one hand smaller (like 42079 B-model), on the other hand in 1:1 scale. 

However since I used diff in my models I allways try to include one, it makes the driving impossible without them. So the only case when diff lock should be used is during slippery surface.

[Urbal]

21 hours ago, Mikdun said:

However since I used diff in my models I allways try to include one, it makes the driving impossible without them. So the only case when diff lock should be used is during slippery surface.

@Mikdun just to be more specific - do you try to use central diff or diffs between wheels? I guess you meant the latter, seems that central diff effect in Lego cars is not so noticeable (especially in RC cars) - still the effect is there, and I tend to attribute 2 XL motors failures I had to their use in MOC without central diff. But I might be wrong here and XL motors might actually be delicate due to other reasons - but I've heard failure stories from others, and they were eventually discontinued... Anyhow don't want to speculate on this one, as XL motors conundrum is a whole different story :) 

[AVCampos]

Which XL motors are you referring to, PF or PU?

[Urbal]

Ah sorry for the ambiguity: I had issues with PU Control+ XL motors suddenly dying, or only spinning back and not forward

EDIT: both times they were replaced by TLG, but the hassle of reinstalling them within the frame, aghh... that's a pain in the butt!

Edited August 9 by Urbal

[Sokolov Edward]

I found this model interesting in terms of assembly, but I’m not going to buy it and put it on a shelf.
IMHO the model is not suitable as a resource resource due to the small number of new suspension parts and gears, as well as a large number of small parts (60483, 6536, 89678, 18654, 61332), which are already available in large quantities.
The model was assembled in black. New parts released over the last year are either not yet available or are sold at a huge premium.
Therefore, they were replaced with functional analogues from old parts.
The following replacements were made:
- green gear 81346 to blue 35185
- red 2471 to gray 24505 with a drilled central hole (the clutch is not used here)
- green 3590 by 69778 + 32187 (we drill out the blue one and glue it to the trimmed gray one - the total length should be 2L)
- lever 4423 for assembly 31794 + 6x32449 + 6x41677 + 2x44294 + 1x32062 (see photo in the album)
- the new motor has been replaced with an assembly of 3 old 2850s with pistons and a crankshaft, you can also put a 41530 propeller in front of it, modifications to the engine cover are in the photo
- white 65249 to black 18651 with "Friction Ridges" removed
- fork 4159 for assembly 10197 + 27940 + 7x41677 + 2x32062, such a replacement is suitable only for this model, the axle for 10197 needs to be made narrower so that it fits into the coupling (see photo)
- new connector #7 4450 replaced with old #3 32016 with part lifting by 2L (see photo)
- connectors 2393 in the rear bumper were replaced with 2x65487
- 5 wheels replaced with 15038 + 92912.
A number of system bricks were also replaced with technical parts, etc.
There is a photo in the album next to a Jeep Wrangler from Mould King (13124).
Album with photos here https://www.imagebam.com/view/GAC51U

Edited August 10 by Sokolov Edward

[Mikdun]

On 8/9/2024 at 3:21 PM, Urbal said:

 just to be more specific - do you try to use central diff or diffs between wheels?

Both. Lack of rear diff is much more pronounced, of course.

[M_longer]

Unimog 437 Snow Plow is finished :)

https://rebrickable.com/mocs/MOC-192353/M_longer/42177-unimog-437-snow-plow/#details

[allanp]

Quick question, has anyone tried engaging the rear diff lock and then driving it round in circles? I was wondering what would give in this model. Do the large tyres actually slip as one wheel tries to cover more distance than the other?

[M_longer]

5 minutes ago, allanp said:

Quick question, has anyone tried engaging the rear diff lock and then driving it round in circles? I was wondering what would give in this model. Do the large tyres actually slip as one wheel tries to cover more distance than the other?

Some strange friction can be felt.

[Ngoc Nguyen]

2 hours ago, M_longer said:

Unimog 437 Snow Plow is finished :)

https://rebrickable.com/mocs/MOC-192353/M_longer/42177-unimog-437-snow-plow/#details

I like this Unimog more than the other Unimog. You nailed the bold lines of the front grill perfectly.

[2GodBDGlory]

3 hours ago, M_longer said:

Unimog 437 Snow Plow is finished :)

https://rebrickable.com/mocs/MOC-192353/M_longer/42177-unimog-437-snow-plow/#details

Yeah, the front of that does look really good!
I like the part usage with the unsteered hub being used as a CV joint in the rear suspension, and the engine piston parts as tailgate locking pins!

[Paul B Technic]

That has turned out very well.

[TeamThrifty]

On 8/8/2024 at 7:31 AM, Sokolov Edward said:

I don’t want to upset you, but the direct purpose of this model is to stand beautifully on a shelf, and not to roll it on the floor. You are the only one who cares about the effect of the differential lock on the ride.

Wow, you do realise this is LEGO right?!! The mindset that its for a shelf is whats ruining lego... Its meant to be played with, its functions used and understood/learnt from and then taken apart and everything you learnt put into your next MOC.

He's not the only one that cares. Builders care, Assemblers don't...

If people remember what the purpose of technic and lego is and demand that in sets, then TLG will respond. If they think we're all just sticking them on shelves then they'll dumb their offerings down to suit. I don't want that and i hope the majority of technic fans are moc-ers that don't want that either and DO care

If it really is designed for shelves only then shame on TLG and shame on the shelf-only assemblers (you're not builders in the traditional sense) for creating that demand - Diecast and Airfix will satisfy your needs. 

[NV Lego technic]

1 hour ago, TeamThrifty said:

Wow, you do realise this is LEGO right?!! The mindset that its for a shelf is whats ruining lego... Its meant to be played with, its functions used and understood/learnt from and then taken apart and everything you learnt put into your next MOC.

He's not the only one that cares. Builders care, Assemblers don't...

If people remember what the purpose of technic and lego is and demand that in sets, then TLG will respond. If they think we're all just sticking them on shelves then they'll dumb their offerings down to suit. I don't want that and i hope the majority of technic fans are moc-ers that don't want that either and DO care

If it really is designed for shelves only then shame on TLG and shame on the shelf-only assemblers (you're not builders in the traditional sense) for creating that demand - Diecast and Airfix will satisfy your needs. 

This!

[NV Lego technic]

We're talking about technic, and not about other themes.

[Toitoine]

Can someone tell us if the new suspension arm used in McLaren P1, can be used on 6L (connected to chassis in the pinhole before the normal one with the big shock absorber ?

Edited August 13 by Toitoine
Edit sorry wrong thread :(

[Sokolov Edward]

A couple of years ago in China, they often wrote about copies of Lego Technics sets - 3D puzzle for relaxation. And this is really true - the assembly process allows you to distract yourself from current problems, gives the brain new unusual tasks and improves fine motor skills of the hands.