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5 hours ago, danth said:

They can put as many printed parts as they want into one bag and store/track it as if it were a sticker sheet. They've already done that in some cases. 

I think that this only works with flat tiles. ūüę§
 

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28 minutes ago, Classic_Spaceman said:

I think that this only works with flat tiles. ūüę§
 

Almost every set ever released has bags with mixed parts so I'm not sure why you would say that.

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12 minutes ago, danth said:

Almost every set ever released has bags with mixed parts so I'm not sure why you would say that.

Agreed, like those bags with tools, ninjago weapons, friends sea animals, friends kitchen accesoires, monkie kid golden weapons, speed champion wheel covers etc, all are multi-parts coming in a small bag as 1 part.

Back in the old old days  there were chrome coins, tools , flowers, plumes, chrome harpoons and many more , that would be on a sprue, so it goes back quite a few decades.

Currently the same sprue system is still used for Harry Potter wands and the minifig Keys, in various colors, even in 2023 and 2024 sets, they all come in pairs.

 

Edited by TeriXeri

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4 hours ago, icm said:

Yes, but that doesn't mean that every bag of Lego bricks counts as a single part, which is the point ÔĽŅyou were making that they could conceivably do for a set of printed parts to reduce inventory costs for a GWP.

They do it for randomly shaped parts too.

https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?P=36083#T=C

The bags in each Lego set are tracked/stored during the manufacturing process. They all have numbers and QR codes on them. 

People are really bending over backwards to deny the obvious here...

When you buy Lego sets, are you getting empty boxes, or boxes with random bags? No? Then those bags were stored and tracked as bags, with mixed printed and unprinted parts inside.

Edited by danth

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No, that's completely different. It's well known that those kind of packs (weapons packs, effects packs, accessories packs, tool packs) are molded in a single mold in one shot and it's more efficient to dump the entire output of the mold into a polybag than to separate the different individual pieces. (Note those parts are all one color, and none of them are ever printed.) What you're talking about is putting arbitrary numbers of arbitrary part shapes with arbitrary prints into a single polybag and counting it as a single part for inventory purposes. That's ridiculous. That's like saying the polybag Perseverance Mars Rover (or any polybag, for that matter) is a single part for inventory purposes. It's NOT. It's a single set, not a single part.

Putting three separate printed 1x2 cheese slopes with different prints, a printed 1x6 tile, and a printed 2x2x3 cone in the same polybag and counting it as a "single part" for inventory purposes in the baby-Space GWP is absurd. It conflates the idea of part and set in every way that matters. Those parts all come from entirely different molds, presumably in entirely different parts of the factory, and would have to be printed in entirely different machines.

It might be possible to rearrange the bag inventory flows such that all printed parts went into a single bag, but that would interfere with building flows when printed parts aren't needed at the same phase of the build. That would be fixing a problem that doesn't exist, and they still wouldn't count as a single part for inventory purposes!

How do Cobi and Bluebrixx do it with their prints across multiple parts?

Well, in the USA brand-new Cobi is actually more expensive than brand new Lego, for a comparable part count, weight of plastic, or build volume. So they could raise prices, but you don't want Lego to raise prices to Cobi levels.

Bluebrixx kits are designed in Germany but manufactured in China by some manufacturer I don't know the name of, and presumably they pay fairly low wages. Also, they can spend more money on quality prints because the lower-quality parts are less expensive. You don't want Lego to pay bad wages or lower their quality control either (goodness knows their quality control has been declining, we don't want it to decline any further).

Edited by icm

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30 minutes ago, icm said:

Putting three separate printed 1x2 cheese slopes with different prints, a printed 1x6 tile, and a printed 2x2x3 cone in the same polybag and counting it as a "single part" for inventory purposes in the baby-Space GWP is absurd.

Why?

They are going to end up in the same bag regardless. We already have smaller bags within larger bags.

A set of printed parts in one bag makes absolute sense.

30 minutes ago, icm said:

but that would interfere with building flows when printed parts aren't needed at the same phase of theÔĽŅ build.

We already get that with things like spider web elements. Or sticker sheets. Or large parts not in bags.

30 minutes ago, icm said:

So they could raise prices, but you don't want Lego to raise prices to Cobi levels.

I absolutely do if it means all printed parts.

30 minutes ago, icm said:

You don't want Lego to pay bad wages or lower their quality control either (goodness knows their quality control has been declining, we don't want it to decline any further).

I want the people that own Lego to be slightly less rich instead.

Edited by danth

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1 minute ago, danth said:

Why?

They are going to end up in the same bag regardless. We already have smaller bags within larger bags.

A set of printed parts in one bag makes absolute sense.

We already get that with things like spider web elements. Or sticker sheets. Or large parts not in bags.

I absolutely do if it means all printed parts.

You keep conflating the fact that inventory has to be tracked somehow, with the fact that multipacks counted as one part for inventory use special production processes.

The multipack of alphabet-dot 1x1 round tiles is undoubtedly printed as a group on some special alignment jig and dumped off that print jig into the bag. The alignment jig works for 1x1 round tiles because those don't require any special orientation for printing.

The multipacks of tools, weapons, helmet accessories, and superhero effects work because they are made as a single shot in a single mold and dumped off that mold into the bag.

Those are entirely different scenarios from the way most printed parts are handled, which is that first the part must be molded (and stored for inventory purposes in one bin), then printed (and stored for inventory purposes in a separate bin).

The analogous scenario for what you're talking about would be to have a machine that molds a set of three 1x2 cheese slopes, a single 1x6 tile, and a single 2x2x3 cone in one mold, in one shot, then dumps them out into special machinery that aligns them all at once and prints on them all at once, then dumps them all into one bag. That machinery would have to be retooled at great expense for every single set, because the combination of printed parts is entirely distinct for every single set. That would be astronomically expensive.

You keep conflating sets and parts. It's not a hard concept.

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1 minute ago, icm said:

You keep conflating sets and parts. It's not a hard concept.

It's a meaning less distinction.

Once you have parts in a bag, you can track and store the bag as a unit. Sure, depending on the what parts are printed and how, there might be a step before bagging where the parts have to be in separate bins (although I'm not even sure that's required), but that's only until they're bagged.

Lego doesn't make every set and every part all at once. They make some at a time. Once parts for a set are in bags/boxes, the bins are free to store other parts.

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5 minutes ago, icm said:

Those are entirely different scenarios from the way most printed parts are handled, which is that first the part must be molded (and stored for inventory purposes in one bin), then printed (and stored for inventory purposes in a separate bin).

I suspect this is the main issue for producing printed parts on small run sets using unique parts/prints.  I don't think it's the cost of printing, but rather the setup for a small printing run, and then tracking those separately printed parts to then go in one set.  The cost of ink and the actual printing on the pieces probably does not cost a lot (certainly no more than other printed parts), but there is a cost to setup the printing machine to print a specific design on a specifically shaped piece.  This cost is spread out over the total number of pieces made, so the smaller the run the higher the cost per piece.

I'm sure Lego is well aware of how much AFOLs dislike stickers, but they are a business that makes economic decisions in their best interest.

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20 minutes ago, icm said:

The analogous scenario for what you're talking about would be to have a machine that molds a set of three 1x2 cheese slopes, a single 1x6 tile, and a single 2x2x3 cone in one mold, in one shot, then dumps them out into special machinery that aligns them all at once and prints on them all at once, then dumps them all into one bag. That machinery would have to be retooled at great expense for every single set, because the combination of printed parts is entirely distinct for every single set. That would be astronomically expensive.

We were talking about the logistics of tracking/storing individual pieces. Not the process of getting them into a bag. They already get all parts into bags; it's a solved problem.

I'm just saying, use that same ability to put related sets of prints into one bag and track/store them together.

Edited by danth

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So in your scenario we put all printed parts into one bag and track it as a bag along with the other bags. Congratulations, that solves nothing. That does nothing to make it any cheaper to include prints in GWP sets, or any other set, because the parts still have to be stored in bins, then printed and stored in other bins, then put in a bag. That will do literally nothing to solve the problem of too many stickers/too few prints.

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13 minutes ago, icm said:

So in your scenario we put all printed parts into one bag and track it as a bag along with the other bags. Congratulations, that solves nothing. That does nothing to make it any cheaper to include prints in GWP sets, or any other set, because the parts still have to be stored in bins, then printed and stored in other bins, then put in a bag. That will do literally nothing to solve the problem of too many stickers/too few prints.

Parts going into bins isn't the problem, running out of bins is the problem. Once you put parts into a bag you get the bins back. This is why Lego bags have smaller inner bags. Really, the whole "bin" excuse is a farce.

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I will say that yeah, it's gotta be easier to print on round tiles because you don't have to align them in three dimensions but that's not a storage/tracking issue.

And yeah, maybe if you print on the same parts in the same color, it's easier to do all the prints at once straight from the mold and them drop them all into the same bag. That's probably why, for example, we got multiple prints on white 2x2 tiles in the Galaxy Explorer. Being smart about color/part choices to enable more prints? Great, do it.

But running out of bins is a non issue. Even ignoring prints, you're going to run out of bins, and that's when you put all your parts into a bag and then get your bins back.

Edited by danth

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Bins and bags are separate stages of the inventory process. Putting the printed parts for one set into a bag isn't going to get you the bins back for three reasons.

First, many printed parts are shared between sets. Picking everything you need for one set and bagging it isn't going to get you the bin back because you still need the bin to store the parts for the other set. 

Second, parts aren't produced in the precise stoichiometric ratios needed to produce whole-integer numbers of sets, so you can't take out X number of parts for Y sets and get your bins back, because Z number of parts are left in the bin. Otherwise, there would be no way to provide spare parts, replacement parts, or Pick a Brick.

Third, as far as I know parts and sets aren't produced in a staged batch process. It's not like we'll make so many parts, put those in so many bins, then empty all those bins by putting all those parts into bags, and so on. It doesn't work that way.

Bags and bins are separate parts of the production process with separate storage and inventory requirements. To make prints cheaper so that you don't need so many sticker sheets, you need to address the problem at the part level, not the bag level. The bag level is a solved problem. It's not the issue.

You're making this about bags. It's not about bags.

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Soooo.... is this still the Thread for the 2024 Space Sets or the second Thread for the Topic of printed Parts?

 

Besides the big Ground Station I already bought all of the other City Space Sets. And now I'm thinking if I should buy the Friends Space Station too. And the Technic Sets...

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Ordered a bunch of them (not all are available on AU S@H :hmpf:), still can't get the Viking Village (always out of stock whenever I try to get it :hmpf:) - space baby set on the way. (I am still calling them babies even if they don't have the goo-goo face)

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18 hours ago, danth said:

Almost every set ever released has bags with mixed parts so I'm not sure why you would say that.

I was referring to parts that might be printed together at the same time, like the newspapers in the Daily Bugle. 
 

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What are your favorite 2024 Space sets, so we can discuss about it in this 2024 Space sets thread?

Dude, can we stay on topic. Anyone tried building a MOC or combined a few sets?

Anyone tried a mod to fit mini-figs in the Technic set's cockpits?

 

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1 hour ago, Lyichir said:

I wonder if the updated gold uniforms for Mr. Oz and Albert are just because this set is special as part of the "Space" supertheme, or if perhaps the summer wave will have other characters getting gold outfits too.

Ihave Mr. Oz’s Spae Car set built today and I saw this comment. So I had to quote it over here.

your thoughts? 

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43 minutes ago, Lion King said:

Ihave Mr. Oz’s Spae Car set built today and I saw this comment. So I had to quote it over here.

your thoughts? 

For a second seeing the notification for the reply here made me worried I had posted it in the wrong topic, lol.

Truth be told I don't think the question is all that pertinent here because even if the other Dreamzzz characters get outfit upgrades like that, Mr. Oz and Albert are the only ones with explicit space theming (the other characters' concepts include Mateo's slime/comic hero theming, Izzie's cutesy/pastel theming, Cooper's high tech/racecar driver theming, Nova's broody fantasy theming, and Logan's monster/sports theming). So even if the other characters get similar outfit upgrades, it'll probably be relevant to their respective themes instead of connected to the space supertheme.

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Is Dreamzzz‚Äôs Mr. Oz‚Äôs Space Car really part of ‚ÄúSpace‚ÄĚ cross-theme?

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I bought the space cab and built it, and really liked it as a cab, and didn't bother to open the bag with the white wheels. I have plans for an Ice Planet MOC which will use those.

Don't click if you're tired of the sticker/print discussion:

Spoiler

 

 

On 2/16/2024 at 5:23 PM, icm said:

Bins and bags are separate stages of the inventory process. Putting the printed parts for one set into a bag isn't going to get you the bins back for three reasons.

First, many printed parts are shared between sets. Picking everything you need for one set and bagging it isn't going to get you the bin back because you still need the bin to store the parts for the other set. 

Second, parts aren't produced in the precise stoichiometric ratios needed to produce whole-integer numbers of sets, so you can't take out X number of parts for Y sets and get your bins back, because Z number of parts are left in the bin. Otherwise, there would be no way to provide spare parts, replacement parts, or Pick a Brick.

Third, as far as I know parts and sets aren't produced in a staged batch process. It's not like we'll make so many parts, put those in so many bins, then empty all those bins by putting all those parts into bags, and so on. It doesn't work that way.

Bags and bins are separate parts of the production process with separate storage and inventory requirements. To make prints cheaper so that you don't need so many sticker sheets, you need to address the problem at the part level, not the bag level. The bag level is a solved problem. It's not the issue.

You're making this about bags. It's not about bags.

It's the one off stickers that I think would mostly benefit from some bagging strategy; they won't be in other sets and most definitely won't make it to Pick a Brick.

I highly doubt that Lego has enough bins to store every individual piece in production throughout the manufacturing process. Do you have some other reason why they put smaller bags within larger bags? I'm guessing most replacement parts are pulled from bags anyway. Short term storage before bagging is not going to be the same as longer term for replacement parts.

Related to this, I can't remember any wave of sets that has as many reused prints as 2024 City Space. There's the 2x2 logo tile, the 1x2 battery tile, the 1x1 round battery tile, the 2x4 curved slope, the trans light blue book cover. Ironically this is the one case where you'd need to store printed parts separately for reuse. I assume they do all sets from a wave (assuming they share parts/colors) at or close to the same time to avoid having to store parts in bins too long and to get them bagged quickly.

 

Edited by danth

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