2023 Majisto GWP

[DaleDVM]

Been away from LEGO forums for a while.  That was a lot to read...  My take.  As always, unique parts are much more important than the overall build for me.

I am mostly disappointed with the lack of a shield.  Majisto being plain doesn't bother me as much.  When a fig is an individual character it is easy to MOD them.  However, if you lack the parts, as in this case for the Dragon Masters, you can't MOD them into existence.  This is especially true if you want a unit/army of them.  Hence, I welcome the new torso...  But...

With a shield you can really build up your Dragon Master faction and it would have character.  Without it...  Not so much.  You end up with a faction that does not have much to differentiate itself from other factions.  If the torso becomes available on BAP, I will get 50-75 to add to my old Dragon Master Faction which is about 75 strong.  But without shields, capes, or flags... adding too many figs will make the faction look bland.  I certainly will not spend over a dollar each for the classic dragon helm.  The black helm with neck protector will have to suffice.  The silver grill helm and pauldrons will not work out for this fig at all IMHO as it will not match the original faction at all.  I will likely use these guys as archers behind my normal Dragon Master troops.  In other words, I will be hiding them.  Not the best result, but better than no new prints at all?

As for the workshop.  I am okay with BURPS.  I like the door addition even if it is not big enough.  People used to bend to enter rooms a lot in medieval times.  Overall the exterior seems okay...  I would have preferred a little more of a refresh on the model, especially the roof since it kind of dominates the look of the model.  I can't give a final opinion until I see the interior.  

Even though I have multiples of almost every LEGO castle set ever made, I feel okay with just having one of these.  For now anyway.

[MAB]

3 hours ago, Black Falcon said:

As mentioned before, no idea why we have to discuss this every set they are introducing. But however, since it doesn´t seem to stop:

For me this post is very problematic to be honest. While I personally can understand why Lego makes the things they do the way they do and I don´t have a problem with that, I kinda still would prefer them to be more accurate in that matter honestly - calling everyone sexist who thinks that way is just insulting and stubborn to me. 

 

What do you mean by you "would prefer them to be more accurate in that matter honestly"? What does accurate mean here? 

LEGO can put whatever they like in a set. So long as the contents match the images and instructions,  the set is accurate.

[BrickMatit]

I've missed the info flow for a bit... Are there any images about the inside of the set?

[Black Falcon]

5 minutes ago, MAB said:

What do you mean by you "would prefer them to be more accurate in that matter honestly"? What does accurate mean here? 

LEGO can put whatever they like in a set. So long as the contents match the images and instructions,  the set is accurate.

It was still about that male/female discussion. To make it short: Historically seen it is a fact that Knights were, with some exeptions, male. That beeing said while fantasy can do what it wants, it is based on the medieval here and I personally would prefer that - and I don´t really need a wizard in a castle set - although I have nothing against it either and indeed I really like Fantasy Era.

Anyways. While I personally would prefer to have mainly male knights, it doesn´t bother me that Lego decided to do it different, that is perfectly fine with me.

3 minutes ago, BrickMatit said:

I've missed the info flow for a bit... Are there any images about the inside of the set?

Not yet, that one is still a mystery to us.

[Poco Lypso]

56 minutes ago, MAB said:

What do you mean by you "would prefer them to be more accurate in that matter honestly"? What does accurate mean here? 

LEGO can put whatever they like in a set. So long as the contents match the images and instructions,  the set is accurate.

If they ever make a pink castle I am sure it will match images and descriptions and the set will be accurate... 🤣🤣🤣 .

 

 

 

 

Edited November 11, 2023 by Poco Lypso

[El Garfio]

4 hours ago, Black Falcon said:

Well that argument is way off. Majisto has to be male because he was - there is a difference between changing an certain iconic character and just changing a random knight. They could have decided to include a female wizard instead of Majisto in the Lion Knights castle, but obviously they wanted to have the Iconic Wizard included - as for the workshop. It is Majistos Workshop, so that wouldn´t work here.

 

Why?

If Disney or Netflix makes a movie about the character are you sure that he will remain male and white? (beacuse this is other, if the set has not yellow heads, one of the characters must be a woman, and one has to be racialized)

Why not a Pectina from Asterix: The Secret of the Magic Potion? 

Why not an Alex from wizards of waverly place? (A female white hat magician, but with a naughty spirit)

Why non of the characters has a disability? (having war marks it's canon in historic themes)

[Poco Lypso]

3 minutes ago, El Garfio said:

Why?

If Disney or Netflix makes a movie about the character are you sure that he will remain male and white? (beacuse this is other, if the set has not yellow heads, one of the characters must be a woman, and one has to be racialized)

Why not a Pectina from Asterix: The Secret of the Magic Potion? 

Why not an Alex from wizards of waverly place? (A female white hat magician, but with a naughty spirit)

Why non of the characters has a disability? (having war marks it's canon in historic themes)

Lego isnt about (medieval) war. Torn off legs are reserved for the pirates themes. 🤔

Thankfully we can create our own mocs and assign roles to our characters as we see fit.

 

[El Garfio]

1 hour ago, Black Falcon said:

Anyways. While I personally would prefer to have mainly male knights, it doesn´t bother me that Lego decided to do it different, that is perfectly fine with me.

The problem is that Lego can't do what they think is better because:

They have problems for making redskin figures

They have problems because in the need to have a goog ESG images they have been claimed to make the tow truck male and the indefense figure that needs help because its car has broken female female 

They also has problems by making friends boxes purple, and using pastel colors in the buildings

As you can see, having a defined ESG policy not always is good for the brand

6 minutes ago, Poco Lypso said:

Lego isnt about (medieval) war. Torn off legs are reserved for the pirates themes. 🤔

Thankfully we can create our own mocs and assign roles to our characters as we see fit.

 

I don't know today, but in my youth, castle/knight/medieval sets were for making fighting stories.

I'm not defending the stereotyped roles of the pass, but it's a fact that they existed along the history, and I don't know if cancelling or hiding it is really good for the learning of youth (even being agree that some gender roles and stereotypes, need to be surpassed).

[Black Falcon]

43 minutes ago, El Garfio said:

If Disney or Netflix makes a movie about the character are you sure that he will remain male and white?

When Film companies make new videos or series they tend to change a lot things and a lot people complain because they are not very true to the original. Just look at 5-0 or Mac Gyver. Times change and so do the likes of the audience. Now you can see a similar thing with Lego. But in that case you have one random person and one main character. So you go to change the random knight in that case and not the famous wizard. This set is a remake of an old set. If it would be more like the Lion Knights Castle or the Medieval Town Square, that would be another thing, since you can just put a female wizard there (but again, in the Lion Knights Castle they wanted to bring Majisto back because, well he is a famous Lego character from the past, that people recognize - but in return they decided to add a queen and not a king like they did in other castle sets)

[El Garfio]

27 minutes ago, Black Falcon said:

When Film companies make new videos or series they tend to change a lot things and a lot people complain because they are not very true to the original. Just look at 5-0 or Mac Gyver. Times change and so do the likes of the audience. Now you can see a similar thing with Lego. But in that case you have one random person and one main character. So you go to change the random knight in that case and not the famous wizard. This set is a remake of an old set. If it would be more like the Lion Knights Castle or the Medieval Town Square, that would be another thing, since you can just put a female wizard there (but again, in the Lion Knights Castle they wanted to bring Majisto back because, well he is a famous Lego character from the past, that people recognize - but in return they decided to add a queen and not a king like they did in other castle sets)

When you start to play the ESG game you have two problems 

- People that is going to stop to buy your products because they think you go so far 

- And people that is going to stop to buy your products because they think you are not doing enough 

If you make a remake, keep all like the original to avoid problems (if anyone complains, you can say you only have manufactured again x number of pieces of an existing product)

[Alexandrina]

11 hours ago, El Garfio said:

Why not change the gender of the Majisto? 

Because Majisto is a specific named character not a generic knight.

1 hour ago, El Garfio said:

If Disney or Netflix makes a movie about the character are you sure that he will remain male and white? (beacuse this is other, if the set has not yellow heads, one of the characters must be a woman, and one has to be racialized)

What is this comment? No idea why you're bringing the issue of race up here - but also, is there really a long list of 'white male' characters who have been replaced by women and POC in Disney/Netflix adaptations? I'm talking actual main characters, not supporting cast or walk-ons? Companies usually hire the best individual for the role (unless they're specifically race-matching a character to an already-cast character)

[Black Falcon]

4 minutes ago, El Garfio said:

When you start to play the ESG game you have two problems 

- People that is going to stop to buy your products because they think you go so far 

- And people that is going to stop to buy your products because they think you are not doing enough 

If you make a remake, keep all like the original to avoid problems (if anyone complains, you can say you only have manufactured again x number of pieces of an existing product)

And if you don´t people will not buy your product because it is to sexist (you just have to read the comments here to see that that would come up) or they don´t feel represented. You can never make everyone happy. That beeing said, even with people complaining, many of those will still buy the set anyways.

[Alexandrina]

1 hour ago, Poco Lypso said:

If they ever make a pink castle I am sure it will match images and descriptions and the set will be accurate... 🤣🤣🤣 .

I'm not sure Craigievar is notable enough to have a set made of it, but it would be a beautiful set if they did.

[zoth33]

9 hours ago, MAB said:

Lego is making it clear that in their modern fantasy Castle, women can be soldiers. 

When time passes, hair tends to grey and beards become fuller and less hipster.

 

Traditionally, yes. But in more modern literature, there are plenty of examples of witches that are not evil, such as those in Harry Potter. Traditionally it was old and ugly means bad witch, whereas young and beautiful means good. That is rather outdated now. Some old females with magical powers can be good, some can be bad. Some good looking females can be bad, some can be good. 

 

Which knights era canon are you referring to for accuracy? This set is LEGO castle based fantasy of the 2020s, where the largest castle in the realm has a female leader and many of the soldiers are female. A female soldier in this set fits perfectly with this.

That's what I said it depends on what property you are dealing with as to what women warriors are and obviously you can do whatever you want with your lego.  I have some elven women warriors and mages and other women warriors across my fantasy world that I have created out of lego.  Like I have said before it's lego and you can create what you want with it.  I was just mentioning that different IP's have different views on women warriors etc.  

4 hours ago, DaleDVM said:

Been away from LEGO forums for a while.  That was a lot to read...  My take.  As always, unique parts are much more important than the overall build for me.

I am mostly disappointed with the lack of a shield.  Majisto being plain doesn't bother me as much.  When a fig is an individual character it is easy to MOD them.  However, if you lack the parts, as in this case for the Dragon Masters, you can't MOD them into existence.  This is especially true if you want a unit/army of them.  Hence, I welcome the new torso...  But...

With a shield you can really build up your Dragon Master faction and it would have character.  Without it...  Not so much.  You end up with a faction that does not have much to differentiate itself from other factions.  If the torso becomes available on BAP, I will get 50-75 to add to my old Dragon Master Faction which is about 75 strong.  But without shields, capes, or flags... adding too many figs will make the faction look bland.  I certainly will not spend over a dollar each for the classic dragon helm.  The black helm with neck protector will have to suffice.  The silver grill helm and pauldrons will not work out for this fig at all IMHO as it will not match the original faction at all.  I will likely use these guys as archers behind my normal Dragon Master troops.  In other words, I will be hiding them.  Not the best result, but better than no new prints at all?

As for the workshop.  I am okay with BURPS.  I like the door addition even if it is not big enough.  People used to bend to enter rooms a lot in medieval times.  Overall the exterior seems okay...  I would have preferred a little more of a refresh on the model, especially the roof since it kind of dominates the look of the model.  I can't give a final opinion until I see the interior.  

Even though I have multiples of almost every LEGO castle set ever made, I feel okay with just having one of these.  For now anyway.

The new Market Village set that is coming has a shieldsmith so there is still hope for a dragon masters shield although it may be a small chance it shows up.  Have you seen that the goat returns in the new cmf and Basil the Batlord gets an upgrade and he looks fantastic in my opinion.  

[Classic_Spaceman]

32 minutes ago, zoth33 said:

The new Market Village set that is coming has a shieldsmith so there is still hope for a dragon masters shield although it may be a small chance it shows up.  

Doubtful, since if we were getting one, it would have appeared in the Workshop GWP. 🫤
 

[zoth33]

2 minutes ago, Classic_Spaceman said:

Doubtful, since if we were getting one, it would have appeared in the Workshop GWP. 🫤
 

Yeah that's why I said small chance.  but who knows lego sometimes surprises us.  

[Classic_Spaceman]

1 minute ago, zoth33 said:

Yeah that's why I said small chance.  but who knows lego sometimes surprises us.  

I would love to be wrong, but I am just not getting my hopes up for a Dragon Masters shield. 
 

[zoth33]

Just now, Classic_Spaceman said:

I would love to be wrong, but I am just not getting my hopes up for a Dragon Masters shield. 
 

Neither am I but it's been good for us Castle fans lately so I can't complain.  

[Mandalorianknight]

15 hours ago, El Garfio said:

Why not change the gender of the Majisto? 

He's a specific guy, but in general, yes, female magicians would be a good way for lego to add some gender diversity without annoying people who want a more standard knight army.

6 hours ago, MAB said:

What do you mean by you "would prefer them to be more accurate in that matter honestly"? What does accurate mean here? 

What he said- knights were primarily men. 

4 hours ago, Alexandrina said:

What is this comment? No idea why you're bringing the issue of race up here - but also, is there really a long list of 'white male' characters who have been replaced by women and POC in Disney/Netflix adaptations? I'm talking actual main characters, not supporting cast or walk-ons? Companies usually hire the best individual for the role (unless they're specifically race-matching a character to an already-cast character)

Not to get even farther off topic, but... yes. It's common knowledge. Adaptions of comic books, anime, historical figures, etc.

 

Alright, unless it's to respond to someone specifically responding to me I think I'm done with that. 

 

1 hour ago, Classic_Spaceman said:

Doubtful, since if we were getting one, it would have appeared in the Workshop GWP. 🫤

Maybe, but assumably this market set will have a much larger print budget than the GWP, right? I don't know that it'd be the best use of that budget, but it's certainly something they could do.

 

It's nice to see that classic castle is getting somewhat of a focus, but I wonder why we haven't seen anything resembling a dedicated castle theme in some time. It's not like classic space, where a licensed theme would dominate it's sales. Is there just not an interest in the medieval era from kids? 

[Poco Lypso]

20 minutes ago, Mandalorianknight said:

He's a specific guy, but in general, yes, female magicians would be a good way for lego to add some gender diversity without annoying people who want a more standard knight army.

What he said- knights were primarily men. 

Not to get even farther off topic, but... yes. It's common knowledge. Adaptions of comic books, anime, historical figures, etc.

 

Alright, unless it's to respond to someone specifically responding to me I think I'm done with that. 

 

Maybe, but assumably this market set will have a much larger print budget than the GWP, right? I don't know that it'd be the best use of that budget, but it's certainly something they could do.

 

It's nice to see that classic castle is getting somewhat of a focus, but I wonder why we haven't seen anything resembling a dedicated castle theme in some time. It's not like classic space, where a licensed theme would dominate it's sales. Is there just not an interest in the medieval era from kids? 

I think it's mostly star wars and Ninjago which kids are into, also friends and city. U got lots of media tie-ins such as movies, shows, video games which further enhance the popularity of those themes. The Mario theme must be popular too, otherwise they wouldn't have it run for so long - gimme Zelda, lol.

At least Lego realized there is an afol market and has given us some more sophisticated sets.

 

4 hours ago, Alexandrina said:

I'm not sure Craigievar is notable enough to have a set made of it, but it would be a beautiful set if they did.

Tbh medieval castles were prolly more colorful than we imagine. Still tho, a pink castle would be a problem for me, bc of the reusability of parts, haha

[Sir Dano]

Honestly I think I'd rather see a Black Knights shield in the village set than a Dragon Masters one.

[Follows Closely]

Rant...

Spoiler

I find it interesting that tolerance and diversity are virtues (practically worshiped by some), yet we are so intolerant to some views that are totally harmless. If someone prefers men soldiers so be it. If someone else prefers equal male and female soldiers, so be it. If yet another person prefers orks and gobblings as soldiers, so be it. I personally would rather see a majority of my soldiers as male; maybe that because I am a man or maybe it's the environment I grew up in who knows. One thing I am sure of is that LEGO values diversity, and because of that core value we will see many or more women in our medieval sets.

Back on Topic: I am so bummed that we are not getting a new shield in this set. I would have even settled for a sticker.

Edited November 11, 2023 by Follows Closely

[Alexandrina]

3 hours ago, Mandalorianknight said:

It's nice to see that classic castle is getting somewhat of a focus, but I wonder why we haven't seen anything resembling a dedicated castle theme in some time. It's not like classic space, where a licensed theme would dominate it's sales. Is there just not an interest in the medieval era from kids? 

I'm sure a full theme can't be far away. We've been feasting on special sets the last few years, and it's pushing a decade now since the last actual proper Castle theme so it's well overdue. I do wonder if Lego are trying to reintroduce key elements through successive D2C budgets, so that they have more of the budget for a specific Castle theme (though this may be severe copium talking). Does anyone know off-hand whether any Castle-specific parts have been introduced/reintroduced in the Blacksmith/Lion Knights' Castle that were out of circulation altogether? I know the Bard CMF gave us the lute.

[Classic_Spaceman]

3 hours ago, Mandalorianknight said:

Maybe, but assumably this market set will have a much larger print budget than the GWP, right? I don't know that it'd be the best use of that budget, but it's certainly something they could do.

The assumption is that the shield would be reused in the GWP if it were going to appear in the MTS. 

3 hours ago, Mandalorianknight said:

It's nice to see that classic castle is getting somewhat of a focus, but I wonder why we haven't seen anything resembling a dedicated castle theme in some time. It's not like classic space, where a licensed theme would dominate it's sales. Is there just not an interest in the medieval era from kids? 

I still hold to the theory that Game of Thrones killed traditional LEGO Castle themes from around 2014-2021; knights and castles were still of interest to children, which is why we got Nexo Knights during this time, but more traditional Medieval settings were too reminiscent of GoT for LEGO. Only after the show ended with a flop in 2019 did LEGO start making traditional Castle sets again. 
 

3 hours ago, Sir Dano said:

Honestly I think I'd rather see a Black Knights shield in the village set than a Dragon Masters one.

Same - Black Knights are a better choice for the next big faction following the Black Falcons and Lion Knights, since their castles are black (thereby differentiating their set(s) from the LKC), and since they were the next faction to appear after the OG Lions and Falcons. Also, the Black Knights are better suited to a more realistic/daily-life set like the village; Dragon Masters could be a bit jarring in that context. That said, I do want them to reappear - Perhaps via a combination of Creator sets, GWPs, and CMFs? 
 

Edited November 11, 2023 by Classic_Spaceman

[Mandalorianknight]

16 minutes ago, Classic_Spaceman said:

I still hold to the theory that Game of Thrones killed traditional LEGO Castle themes from around 2014-2021; knights and castles were still of interest to children, which is why we got Nexo Knights during this time, but more traditional Medieval settings were too reminiscent of GoT for LEGO. Only after the show ended with a flop in 2019 did LEGO start making traditional Castle sets again. 

I suppose that's possible, but I'm not too sure. After all, criminals in the real world are a far cry from the goofy robbers of lego city (and the lego city police aren't armed and don't have to deal with anything darker than theft). I feel like it'd have been pretty clear to everyone that lego's own colorful castle theme wasn't game of thrones.

That said, we know how controversy-averse lego tries to be sometimes, so I suppose you could be right.

42 minutes ago, Alexandrina said:

I'm sure a full theme can't be far away. We've been feasting on special sets the last few years, and it's pushing a decade now since the last actual proper Castle theme so it's well overdue. I do wonder if Lego are trying to reintroduce key elements through successive D2C budgets, so that they have more of the budget for a specific Castle theme (though this may be severe copium talking). Does anyone know off-hand whether any Castle-specific parts have been introduced/reintroduced in the Blacksmith/Lion Knights' Castle that were out of circulation altogether? I know the Bard CMF gave us the lute.

I'm not sure. I feel like one of the good ways to judge the potential success of a wide theme would be a smaller set, not a $400 set for AFOLs. That said, you're right that a lot of castle parts have been showing up, so if a further theme were to arise, the low budget would stop it from being as big a deal as the existing sets.

16 minutes ago, Classic_Spaceman said:

The assumption is that the shield would be reused in the GWP if it were going to appear in the MTS. 

How far off is the MTS? It's not this year, is it?