Lego Icons 10332 Medieval Town Square Discussion Thread

[Alexandrina]

6 hours ago, Roebuck said:

A single CMF or BAM minifig normally gives us more than that so as a big big set made for the "theme" it is rather useless when it comes to new parts.

The thing is, BAM parts existing is meaningless for people who don't live close enough that they can get to a Lego store (and even then, they have to hope that the part they want is in stock). For instance, I've worked in London and when I've been based there it's easy for me to go to the Lego store to grab what I want (or even take the train to look for the new Indy sets a month ahead of their release because I forgot to check the release date! ) but at other parts of the year I go home, where it's simply not practical to go to a Lego store. For instance: I went to the Lego store more times in three months living in London this year than in twenty-five years of living prior to that. Some parts don't even make it to Bricklink. I made a few posts on this very forum some years back about a particular torso I had my eye on which Bricklink still haven't got listed, and which was impossible for me to obtain until I happened to go to a Lego store in another city.

3-in-1 sets might give the same amount of new useful parts as BAM stands, but those sets are accessible to far more people.

[Roebuck]

7 hours ago, Classic_Spaceman said:

No character has a headdress and hair that really resembles that piece, though - Even in concept art. 
 

Vidiyo makes most sense anyway, I believe this years modular got a "free" mould from a cancelled Vidiyo set so it is probably more up for grabs The mould would make perfect sense for a fig inspired by a opera singer dressed up as a viking:

2 hours ago, Alexandrina said:

The thing is, BAM parts existing is meaningless for people who don't live close enough that they can get to a Lego store (and even then, they have to hope that the part they want is in stock). For instance, I've worked in London and when I've been based there it's easy for me to go to the Lego store to grab what I want (or even take the train to look for the new Indy sets a month ahead of their release because I forgot to check the release date! ) but at other parts of the year I go home, where it's simply not practical to go to a Lego store. For instance: I went to the Lego store more times in three months living in London this year than in twenty-five years of living prior to that. Some parts don't even make it to Bricklink. I made a few posts on this very forum some years back about a particular torso I had my eye on which Bricklink still haven't got listed, and which was impossible for me to obtain until I happened to go to a Lego store in another city.

3-in-1 sets might give the same amount of new useful parts as BAM stands, but those sets are accessible to far more people.

I know what you mean since I still have not gotten any BAM knights (not even a single Lego store in Norway), and you must be lucky when you visit one to get all the parts you are looking for. However they normally show up on BL and I think online BAM will be a lot better in the future

[Classic_Spaceman]

3 minutes ago, Roebuck said:

Vidiyo makes most sense anyway, I believe this years modular got a "free" mould from a cancelled Vidiyo set so it is probably more up for grabs The mould would make perfect sense for a fig inspired by a opera singer dressed up as a viking:

Correct; the cello piece in the Jazz Club was originally going to appear in VIDIYO. 
I am a bit torn about the headdress; while I do think that it would fit the Viking opera singer archetype, said archetype seems too normal (and boring) when compared to the other VIDIYO characters. 
 

[Roebuck]

  A goat teaser in Ninjago markets;

Maybe a teaser for a medieval marked set with goats

[Sir Dano]

Just to save everyone's time:

courtesy: https://www.newelementary.com/2023/05/lego-parts-review-71799-ninjago-city.html

[MAB]

On 4/22/2023 at 4:18 PM, Roebuck said:

Vidiyo makes most sense anyway, I believe this years modular got a "free" mould from a cancelled Vidiyo set so it is probably more up for grabs The mould would make perfect sense for a fig inspired by a opera singer dressed up as a viking:

We already had a pretty decent version for a Wagner inspired viking style opera singer.

[KraK]

Hi !

I read this interview recently :

https://www.brickfanatics.com/lego-designers-conspiracy-long-lost-lego-goat/amp?fbclid=IwAR1sHwWoG7_pDktLdRfEDqH8cJuxJ7v9-QJXvai5v-7lngv-PRCUD_zLV24

A Lego employee talks about the goat minifigure.
He says the mold got damaged and is no longer usable. And since there is no project that would reuse the goat figurine, there are no plans to see it again in a set.
And that is an important detail! Because in the image of the leak presenting the set of the village we can see a goat.

Does this mean that the set will not be marketed or that the person voluntarily forgot to mention it?

What do you think ?

 

[RichardGoring]

12 minutes ago, KraK said:

He says the mold got damaged and is no longer usable. And since there is no project that would reuse the goat figurine, there are no plans to see it again in a set.
And that is an important detail! Because in the image of the leak presenting the set of the village we can see a goat.

Does this mean that the set will not be marketed or that the person voluntarily forgot to mention it?

What do you think ?

My take on it was that there was no set that required a goat that also had the budget to remake the mould (which is an expensive process for LEGO). That is not to say that they couldn't bring it back in the future. And they won't mention future sets in any kind of external communication, but I suspect that if the Medieval Village is a set in 2024, they are already working on the goat mould, or may even have it updated and ready to go.

From their perspective, this is a bit of fun. Something to tease, but also just to recognize the meme status of the goat at this point.

[Lion King]

41 minutes ago, KraK said:

Hi !

I read this interview recently :

https://www.brickfanatics.com/lego-designers-conspiracy-long-lost-lego-goat/amp?fbclid=IwAR1sHwWoG7_pDktLdRfEDqH8cJuxJ7v9-QJXvai5v-7lngv-PRCUD_zLV24

A Lego employee talks about the goat minifigure.
He says the mold got damaged and is no longer usable. And since there is no project that would reuse the goat figurine, there are no plans to see it again in a set.
And that is an important detail! Because in the image of the leak presenting the set of the village we can see a goat.

Does this mean that the set will not be marketed or that the person voluntarily forgot to mention it?

What do you think ?

 

That is the old news. To me, I believe that tht mold was damaged and was no longer usable. BUT I don’t believe that they can’t bring goat back. Can’t they make a new mold for goat at least if there is any budget available? Since Medivedal Blacksmith’s release, goat figure has been asked for repeatedly.  No goat in City’s Farm subtheme in 2022 yet. No goat in CMF series yet. Nothing. But there is still a glimmer of hope for us to see a goat popping into one of these sets like the Mediaeval Village.

[woodford86]

I don't buy the "too expensive to make" argument about the molds. Look how many one-off pieces get released in the CMF's every year, and how many new animal molds are churned out for city line etc. You'll never convince me that a killer whale or a seal or a tortoise is easier to place in sets than a goat.

[RichardGoring]

They've said before that it's a few things that go into it. One is the balance of spreading out the cost of a new mould over the number of sets they think they will sell, or whether it will be used in the future. For CMF and City sets, volumes will be really high, so the incremental cost per set is small. The things they've considered the goat in have all be high cost, lower volume sets, so it's harder to justify. As it then takes up proportionally more of the sets budget, so it's likely better for the set to do something else instead.

If they do a medieval village, then a goat will likely be worth it to the set to make it in. But doing it as an easter egg in the belly of a T-Rex isn't worth it to the value of the set.

[jodawill]

I think at this point, they're just building up the hype for the eventual return. It will probably be displayed very prominently in the promotional materials for the medieval market village. They aren't just going to bring it back in some random CMF. It's going to be a main selling point in a large set.

[Lion King]

I could see a goat showing up in a CMF series and it also shows up. In a village set. Nothing wrong with it being included in CMF. 

[zoth33]

6 hours ago, RichardGoring said:

They've said before that it's a few things that go into it. One is the balance of spreading out the cost of a new mould over the number of sets they think they will sell, or whether it will be used in the future. For CMF and City sets, volumes will be really high, so the incremental cost per set is small. The things they've considered the goat in have all be high cost, lower volume sets, so it's harder to justify. As it then takes up proportionally more of the sets budget, so it's likely better for the set to do something else instead.

If they do a medieval village, then a goat will likely be worth it to the set to make it in. But doing it as an easter egg in the belly of a T-Rex isn't worth it to the value of the set.

They could put the goat in a lot of sets so that logic is out the window.  The new vikings village could use one, the city sets, Ninjago, a cmf, etc, etc.  They can easily justify making a new mold.  Seriously how many sets do you think the orca is going to be in going forward?  Also look at the Great White they used the zombie version once.  So by your logic it makes no sense to make new molds at all if Lego doesn't use them more than once and yet this has been proven wrong over and over again.  

[Sir Dano]

Designers are intentionally keeping goats out of sets to annoy us, there is simply no other answer.

[Roebuck]

16 hours ago, KraK said:

Hi !

I read this interview recently :

https://www.brickfanatics.com/lego-designers-conspiracy-long-lost-lego-goat/amp?fbclid=IwAR1sHwWoG7_pDktLdRfEDqH8cJuxJ7v9-QJXvai5v-7lngv-PRCUD_zLV24

It was so interesting to listen to the podcast so I recommend that as well. I have started listen to the other episodes this season as well (previous seasons are about Lego games so not so interesting to me)..

13 hours ago, woodford86 said:

I don't buy the "too expensive to make" argument about the molds. Look how many one-off pieces get released in the CMF's every year, and how many new animal molds are churned out for city line etc. You'll never convince me that a killer whale or a seal or a tortoise is easier to place in sets than a goat.

It it a legit argument why e.g. the Ideas blacksmith set do not have the goat, but not why a City farm set do not. If they want they can make a small goatherder set similar to the seal battle-pack and it would sell like crazy!

12 hours ago, jodawill said:

I think at this point, they're just building up the hype for the eventual return. It will probably be displayed very prominently in the promotional materials for the medieval market village. They aren't just going to bring it back in some random CMF. It's going to be a main selling point in a large set.

I agree, all this goat hype is not bad for them and when we get a set with it in there will be a lot of free advertising because of the goat. I do not think they will miss this opportunity by making it in a CMF or small City set, the medieval village set makes most sense now. There is is even a goat prototype in the set, we just need to get the set released and Bob's your uncle With the Pirate set this year and not a single whisper of the set I think our best hope is next year
I and a lot of other people I am sure replied that we wanted civilians and animals etc in the 90th year castle set, it was a reason why the first prototype had a complete village in front of the castle. When that was to big I assume (hope) they started developing that as a separate set, if so it could be finished by now..

[RichardGoring]

15 hours ago, zoth33 said:

They could put the goat in a lot of sets so that logic is out the window.  The new vikings village could use one, the city sets, Ninjago, a cmf, etc, etc.  They can easily justify making a new mold.  Seriously how many sets do you think the orca is going to be in going forward?  Also look at the Great White they used the zombie version once.  So by your logic it makes no sense to make new molds at all if Lego doesn't use them more than once and yet this has been proven wrong over and over again.  

I'm not saying you're wrong, but this is what they have put forward in the past. Whether it's really true, or corporate-lore true, or just fluffy marketing, I have no idea.

[Lyichir]

15 hours ago, zoth33 said:

They could put the goat in a lot of sets so that logic is out the window.  The new vikings village could use one, the city sets, Ninjago, a cmf, etc, etc.  They can easily justify making a new mold.  Seriously how many sets do you think the orca is going to be in going forward?  Also look at the Great White they used the zombie version once.  So by your logic it makes no sense to make new molds at all if Lego doesn't use them more than once and yet this has been proven wrong over and over again.  

Sure, they COULD create a new goat for anything. But they'd have to weigh whether a new goat would be the best use of the budget for a given set or theme. It's not just about whether something gets used more than once, but about the impact that use has. For example, it's not hard to understand why remaking the goat for the Jurassic Park set it was once considered for was rejected—that'd be a lot of money for a hidden "easter egg" that might not even be noticed by most potential buyers. By comparison something like the orca has a major "wow factor" that could majorly drive sales of a single set, especially for kids.

[Alexandrina]

47 minutes ago, Lyichir said:

Sure, they COULD create a new goat for anything. But they'd have to weigh whether a new goat would be the best use of the budget for a given set or theme.

Also, it doesn't make sense to shoehorn in a goat just for the sake of it. Yes, they could make some random City set up that includes a goat, but unless it's critical to the set and also appealing to the wider audience, it's a no-go.

There's a subset of AFOLs (over-represented on these forums) who would love to see the goat return. I'm one. If the goat came back in a set that didn't interest me, though, I wouldn't buy the set just for the goat. I'd get what I wanted off PAB and be done with it. If Lego shoehorned a goat into a terrible set, what would happen is AFOLs would buy off PAB but not in enough quantity to justify bringing back the mould - after all, if Lego could recoup the costs of a new mould entirely off PAB sales we'd see plenty of useful parts over the years - and the terrible set would warm the shelves. By waiting for a set like the medieval village, Lego ensures sales from the goat fans who will buy the set and a few extra goats, but also plenty of sales from people who don't care about a goat.

[RichardGoring]

Also, if there were no LEGO animals at all, where would the goat be on the list? Pretty low down I suspect. Now translate that over to most of the sets that LEGO sells with animals, which are generally targeted at children who don't have huge collections, and so they're going to want the greatest hits first. Horse, cow, sheep, chickens. So goats aren't as appealing as these winners.

Why don't we have a duck though?

[TeriXeri]

1 hour ago, RichardGoring said:

Why don't we have a duck though?

This is LEGO's answer for a Duck , recoloring the existing rubber ducky in dark orange in the Botanical Garden.

 

And knowing LEGO uses 20+ year old mould for the crab to this day, they don't seem very picky in reusing exisiting moulds where possible.

Recoloring/Reprinting is probably still easier to get through/cheaper compared to entirely new animal designs. (many new butterfly prints this year as well).

Also some animals don't seem intended to be printed by design, as the 2016-2019 solid colored parrot mould likely would've already have had printed variants by now, currently the dual moulded blue/yellow version seems to suffice as it's quite mass produced across themes and sets, pretty much has replaced the red/green variants (small and later large beak) by now.

And while there are still quite a few new moulds for animals each year (otter, seal, seal pup,  Dogs/Cat variants in City/Friends etc) often they are large volume small sets, or appearing in more then 1 set to begin with. (exceptions are CMF animals who might stay unique to just CMF at first, but might re-appear in BAM or in sets later)

 

Edited June 20, 2023 by TeriXeri

[zoth33]

6 hours ago, Lyichir said:

Sure, they COULD create a new goat for anything. But they'd have to weigh whether a new goat would be the best use of the budget for a given set or theme. It's not just about whether something gets used more than once, but about the impact that use has. For example, it's not hard to understand why remaking the goat for the Jurassic Park set it was once considered for was rejected—that'd be a lot of money for a hidden "easter egg" that might not even be noticed by most potential buyers. By comparison something like the orca has a major "wow factor" that could majorly drive sales of a single set, especially for kids.

Exactly then how are they justifying the Orca mold in the new city sets?

[Lyichir]

1 hour ago, zoth33 said:

Exactly then how are they justifying the Orca mold in the new city sets?

I literally said so in the very post you quoted. The Orca is a big, prominent part of the set it's in, which is priced to suit the inclusion of such a large molded animal. That's going to probably drive sales of that one set the same way the big molded dinosaurs from the various Jurassic sets do.

By comparison, goats are just kind of plain, not exceptional. They're small animals like any other and don't have a ton of "wow factor" for kids. I honestly think the only reason they're so desired by AFOLs, compared to other animals like pigs or sheep or cows, is because they were once ever-so-briefly available and never have been since. But unlike hardcore AFOLs who have been following what animals are or aren't available, most buyers don't know that—to them a goat is probably just an animal like any other, and probably not something that'd make a major impact on the sales of any one given set.

I'm reminded also of the reason Lego doesn't rerelease modular buildings—that the potential sales for any possible rerelease is smaller than the potential sales of a brand-new one, minus people who already have the original and are satisfied with it. So when Lego has the budget to create a new animal mold, a similar calculus may play out—should we make goats again, which very few fans have, or should we make an animal that we've never produced and which absolutely nobody has? We've seen a lot of new animals in recent years, and I wouldn't be surprised if this sort of calculation has played out.

All this isn't to say we'll NEVER see goats again or that there couldn't be a scenario where they'd be worth bringing back. But despite the AFOL passion for goats, there's little reason to assume that bringing goats back is or should be the highest possible priority for Lego designers.

[Roebuck]

5 hours ago, Lyichir said:

But despite the AFOL passion for goats, there's little reason to assume that bringing goats back is or should be the highest possible priority for Lego designers.

The only set I can think of where the budget (if it is there) for a new mould the goat would be on the number 1 spot is the medieval village set.

[RichardGoring]

17 hours ago, TeriXeri said:

This is LEGO's answer for a Duck , recoloring the existing rubber ducky in dark orange in the Botanical Garden.

 

And knowing LEGO uses 20+ year old mould for the crab to this day, they don't seem very picky in reusing exisiting moulds where possible.

Yes, I know, but it looks much more like a duckling to me. At least it's in a realistic colour now.

OMG, I want a decent crab too. They've done a modern lobster, and yet it never gets used. Why not a modern crab. And printed parrot too.

7 hours ago, Roebuck said:

The only set I can think of where the budget (if it is there) for a new mould the goat would be on the number 1 spot is the medieval village set.

Agreed. A goat would be a major feature for this set, for nostalgia reasons and for the storyline/play, pet the original set.